global warming

maxx50

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Not trying to resurrect a the old debate .. My stand is that it is a natural course of earth evolution So along those line I have a few comments .One that ticks me off .. I saw a commercial the other day . about the melting glaciers. and how they were sad that they were melting Kind of implying that we were responsible .. for destroying part of nature, as if glaciers are not meant to melt and reseed .. Well you missed the ice age by 13000 years . thank God. and the ice is so posta melt as the earth warms up .Or else we still would be covered in ice a mile deep. I want to live in an igloo too.. ( that is what they think Canadians live in any way and maybe some people have left there head stuck in the igloo for to long. Brain freeze
And that leads to the next story . that i saw on CBC this morning.. about the north pole ice cap melting in the summer .. It is about half the size as it was a decade ago. As we get less ice . global warming will only increase. There is very little we can do to stop what is only nature.
The sad part of the pole melting .. is that the Polar Bear may become extinct in the next 50 yrs or less .. because they live half the year on the ice .. to feed on seals and mate.. The bear may go the way of the woolly mammoth, musk Ox.. and saber tooth tiger.. Part of the evolution of the species
Don't shed a tear for the melting glaciers .. but you should for the Polar Bears.
 

JustAGuy

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Yes, definitely no such thing as man playing any role in global warming, maxx50. We're no different than the caveman, who also spent much of his time dumping toxic waste into the oceans, polluting the atmosphere with greenhouse gas emissions and cutting down rain forests all over the planet. It's absolutely cyclical. You've nailed it, man. :rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes:
 

metoo113

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Aug 2, 2002
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"I have no doubt that … a trend of global warming exists. I am not sure that it is fair to say that it is a problem we must wrestle with. To assume that it is a problem is to assume that the state of Earth's climate today is the optimal climate, the best climate that we could have or ever have had and that we need to take steps to make sure that it doesn't change. First of all, I don't think it's within the power of human beings to assure that the climate does not change, as millions of years of history have shown. And second of all, I guess I would ask which human beings — where and when — are to be accorded the privilege of deciding that this particular climate that we have right here today, right now is the best climate for all other human beings. I think that's a rather arrogant position for people to take."

NASA Administrator Michael Griffin
 

Lesbian Hunter

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Aug 17, 2006
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Loss of Arctic Ice Leaves Experts Stunned



By David Adam, environment correspondent for Guardian Unlimited



The Arctic ice cap has collapsed at an unprecedented rate this summer and levels of sea ice in the region now stand at record lows, scientists have announced.

Experts say they are "stunned" by the loss of ice, with an area almost twice as big as the UK disappearing in the last week alone.

So much ice has melted this summer that the Northwest passage across the top of Canada is fully navigable, and observers say the Northeast passage along Russia's Arctic coast could open later this month.

If the increased rate of melting continues, the summertime Arctic could be totally free of ice by 2030.

Mark Serreze, an Arctic specialist at the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre at Colorado University in Denver, said: "It's amazing. It's simply fallen off a cliff and we're still losing ice."

The Arctic has now lost about a third of its ice since satellite measurements began thirty years ago, and the rate of loss has accelerated sharply since 2002.

Dr Serreze said: "If you asked me a couple of years ago when the Arctic could lose all of its ice then I would have said 2100, or 2070 maybe. But now I think that 2030 is a reasonable estimate. It seems that the Arctic is going to be a very different place within our lifetimes, and certainly within our childrens' lifetimes."

The new figures show that sea ice extent is currently down to 4.4m square kilometres (1.7m square miles) and still falling.

The previous record low was 5.3m square kilometres in September 2005. From 1979 to 2000 the average sea ice extent was 7.7m square kilometres.

The sea ice usually melts in the Arctic summer and freezes again in the winter. But Dr Serreze said that would be difficult this year.

"This summer we've got all this open water and added heat going into the ocean. That is going to make it much harder for the ice to grow back."

Changes in wind and ocean circulation patterns can help reduce sea ice extent, but Dr Serreze said the main culprit was man-made global warming.

"The rules are starting to change and what's changing the rules is the input of greenhouse gases."
 

maxx50

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If you insist.

Well i am willing to do my part to stop global warming .. Only prob is .. there is nothing I can do .. I happen to need my v8 f150 for work .. usually about 100K a day .one guy in a truck.. Make an electric heavy duty truck and i am there.I don't use a lot of power.. but then in B.C. it is hydro electric .. no greenhouse gas there. I am not a great consumer either. and with no major manufacturing here in B.C. we are not contributing much there either.. I would like to stop buying Chines . they are the great polluter right now.
So where can I start to make a difference..We did not have much of a summer this year so far .. global warming did not help us there much.
 

Bartdude

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Jul 5, 2006
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Well i am willing to do my part to stop global warming .. Only prob is .. there is nothing I can do .. I happen to need my v8 f150 for work .. usually about 100K a day .one guy in a truck.. Make an electric heavy duty truck and i am there.I don't use a lot of power.. but then in B.C. it is hydro electric .. no greenhouse gas there. I am not a great consumer either. and with no major manufacturing here in B.C. we are not contributing much there either.. I would like to stop buying Chines . they are the great polluter right now.
So where can I start to make a difference..We did not have much of a summer this year so far .. global warming did not help us there much.
First of all - the first rule of "global warming" is that it need not produce "warming" as a meterological effect. It can result in many different things, not just elevated temperatures. Incidentally, we had the longest and most consistently hot summer I can remember in years.

Second - I also think that we are going through a warming trend that is partly due to the Earth's very slowly changing conditions. But we'd be fools to think we are not aggrevating the effects of what otherwise might be a mild and unnoticeable shift in temperatures. Given the massive amounts of pollutants dumped into the atmosphere in just the last 200 years - and the overwhelming scientific evidence....to deny we play a direct role is to be blinded by ideology or ignorance.

And before anybody pukes up that British "documentary" the Great Global Warming Swindle....do a five second search and you'll find all sorts of scientific evidence shredding that movie from top to bottom.

Not all of the global warming stuff has been handled well - mistakes at NASA, etc. And there have been many that have twisted the phenomenon for their own personal gain. But that doesn't change the problem.
 

maxx50

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that's your opinion!

YOu know your right when you talk about the last 200 years. . Well don't for get . that in the last 20 years there was enough volcanic activity to to put as much ash and other chemicals into the atmosphere and water to equal what man has done in 200 years.. but then that does not fit in the the man made global warming scenario.. WE always must remember that we are only one of meny species on this planet .. that will come and go .. in the 5 billion years of the earths existence's .
Sorry the the universe does not revolve around man .
 

Nickthenoob

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Dec 27, 2006
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My opinion is take the side of caution in the Global Warming debate.

I would much rather be wrong than right with regards to our lives.

Ntn
 

maxx50

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I just love it ...

I all ways appreciate . how some people are quick to bring out the ignorant card to re-enforce there ideology . and shame others in to believing as they do, talk about religion. environmental issue . seem to galvanize the popular opinion .. a the truth and nothing but the truth
For a Canadian . it is a non issue . because we are not a major contributor to polluting . or global warming. .Yes on an individual bases.. i am sure we each contribute . an equal amount as any other western world partisipent .. But as a country, no.We live in one of the largest countries . but only a population . of 30 million... We definitely see the effects of global warming because we are in one of the most environmentally sensitive areas of the world. with many deverce ecosystems,and we may be allowing it to happen .. But we over inflate our importance in our ability to influence the the rest of the world ..Yes we here about how we are respected. .and Canada is always looked upon as a voice of reason.. I think that is where the ignorance come in. we are ignorant of how small we really are. Canada makes up less then. 0.5 % of the population of the world . That is 3 Canadians . for every 650 everyone elses.
Global warming .. yes it exists . and all the hot heads and hot air being spewed forth is not stopping it. and with out a clear vision for the future of man . we are just going to have to adapt to the consequences .all the nice documentaries . scientific reports .. and name calling is not going to hold it back. because it is now part of the environmental cycle
 

threepeat

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Sep 20, 2004
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Well i am willing to do my part to stop global warming .. Only prob is .. there is nothing I can do .. I happen to need my v8 f150 for work .. usually about 100K a day .one guy in a truck.. Make an electric heavy duty truck and i am there.I don't use a lot of power.. but then in B.C. it is hydro electric .. no greenhouse gas there. I am not a great consumer either. and with no major manufacturing here in B.C. we are not contributing much there either.. I would like to stop buying Chines . they are the great polluter right now.
So where can I start to make a difference..We did not have much of a summer this year so far .. global warming did not help us there much.
I think there's little things everyone can do. I appreciate that most people, myself included, don't want to make major changes to their lifestyle to offset something that is somewhat controversial and may or may not affect them directly. That's just the way people are. That being said, I'm a big fan of energy-cutting measure that don't have a big impact on my lifestyle. For example, for your truck, did you know Chrysler makes a V8 hemi engine which shuts down some of the cylinders during cruising, improving fuel economy: http://www.carpages.ca/go/autonews/...technology_for_reducing_fuel_consumption.aspx

There are also things like compact fluorescent lightbulbs, energy efficient computers, energy efficient appliances, etc. that you can switch to the next time you're shopping around for one of these items that have comparable performance but use less energy.
I all ways appreciate . how some people are quick to bring out the ignorant card to re-enforce there ideology . and shame others in to believing as they do, talk about religion. environmental issue . seem to galvanize the popular opinion .. a the truth and nothing but the truth
For a Canadian . it is a non issue . because we are not a major contributor to polluting . or global warming. .Yes on an individual bases.. i am sure we each contribute . an equal amount as any other western world partisipent .. But as a country, no.We live in one of the largest countries . but only a population . of 30 million... We definitely see the effects of global warming because we are in one of the most environmentally sensitive areas of the world. with many deverce ecosystems,and we may be allowing it to happen .. But we over inflate our importance in our ability to influence the the rest of the world ..Yes we here about how we are respected. .and Canada is always looked upon as a voice of reason.. I think that is where the ignorance come in. we are ignorant of how small we really are. Canada makes up less then. 0.5 % of the population of the world . That is 3 Canadians . for every 650 everyone elses.
Global warming .. yes it exists . and all the hot heads and hot air being spewed forth is not stopping it. and with out a clear vision for the future of man . we are just going to have to adapt to the consequences .all the nice documentaries . scientific reports .. and name calling is not going to hold it back. because it is now part of the environmental cycle
I think it's a shame to look at another country or another person and say, "they're worse polluters than me, therefore there's nothing I should do." It's the old saying right, if everyone thought that nothing would ever change. It's also a classic case of two wrongs not making a right. As an Albertan and as a Canadian, what concerns me is the fact that our media glosses over how absolutely horrible the oil sands development is for the environment. They are levelling mountains, pumping water or steam into the ground... just horrible. Even our ex-premier Peter Lougheed said that (http://www.thecourt.ca/2007/08/16/the-alberta-oil-sands-the-economy-and-the-environment/) and you know if Lougheed says it, it must be bad, because he was so protectionist about the oil sands during his time as premier.

As for climate change itself, I think the reason it's so divisive is that to some extent it's a leap of faith: people are trying to predict the future based on what scientists are saying. It's not something we can actually see for ourselves as an A-B cause and effect relationship. But that's true of a lot of things. For example, you can always find someone who abused their body but managed to live till they were 95, but does that mean you get away with the same thing? You'll never know because there's not another "you" out there to test with. By the same token, there's not another Earth out there that we can pollute the shit out of and see if it actually had an effect. But at some point, you just have to look at the facts, accept the best our science has to offer at this time, and act accordingly. This is why it also bugs me when some people say, "oh they were predicting an ice age in the '70s, now they're predicting global warming therefore they're full of shit this time." The scientific method by definition is a self-correcting thing. Information is only accepted as true until something better comes along, and that's ok. If we spend our whole lives waiting for some ultimate truth before acting, we will be waiting forever.
 
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maroonedsailor

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Jun 10, 2007
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there is nothing I can do
sure there is Maxx - don't have any kids - the problem isn't WHAT we do, it's HOW MANY of us are doing it. When I was born the worlds population was just about one billion. It's now close to five - at that rate it will be over 20 by 2050. Just how many Gucci handbags can China counterfeit before running out of material?
 

metoo113

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Aug 2, 2002
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Somewhere Down The Crazy River
sure there is Maxx - don't have any kids - the problem isn't WHAT we do, it's HOW MANY of us are doing it. When I was born the worlds population was just about one billion. It's now close to five - at that rate it will be over 20 by 2050. Just how many Gucci handbags can China counterfeit before running out of material?
Bit more then five billion "World Population is 6,602,224,175 (July 2007 est.)"

Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/xx.html
 

dr_pepper

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Oct 4, 2005
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Global warming and pollution are not necessarily related. Global warming theory is all about CO2. CO2 is the building blocks of all life on earth. To call CO2 pollution or poison is just stupid. I think how we pollute our water and destroy entire ecosystems in the name of progress measured by another golf course or some condos is terrible. But that has nothing to do with CO2.

There is some good debate and some informed information out there on global warming. The long and short though is no one still has a definitive answer. I say forget the CO2. Let's start with the easy stuff and clean up the everyday pollution we see everyday, have a greater respect for nature and the rest will follow (including man made CO2). Carbon Credits won't help anyone and will only re-line the pockets of the wealthy yet again.
 

d_Duck55

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Aug 11, 2004
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[ Get flamethrowers ready ]

Global warming is way better than global cooling - as mentioned in an earlier post about ice ages. A 2 degree drop in temperature can cut Canadian food production 20% ouch. Obviously global warming is the way to go.

Make a list of ten shitty countries. Hint: they are all at low latitudes. So they get hotter, they are just a waste of dirt anyway, standing around in their pyjamas all day, burning flags, raging against freedom, women, education, democracy, you name it, etc. etc. So fuck'em! Cook'em!

But seriously, I subscribe to the sunspot and solar wind based cause of these naturally occuring perfectly normal variations in temperature.

[ Put down flamethrowers ]
 

dr_pepper

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Oct 4, 2005
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(yes China & India, but we're already gone through what there are doing now)
Not disagreeing with what else you said, but the scale of China and India's growing pains are enormous compared to what Western countries experienced. You're talking what 1000 times the population density. China has the money/resources to join the West in searching for clean sources of energy. The Government and a corrupt system where money has those turning a blind eye to huge environmental impacts is the problem there.
 

threepeat

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Sep 20, 2004
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Everything in moderation

Global warming and pollution are not necessarily related. Global warming theory is all about CO2. CO2 is the building blocks of all life on earth. To call CO2 pollution or poison is just stupid. I think how we pollute our water and destroy entire ecosystems in the name of progress measured by another golf course or some condos is terrible. But that has nothing to do with CO2.

There is some good debate and some informed information out there on global warming. The long and short though is no one still has a definitive answer. I say forget the CO2. Let's start with the easy stuff and clean up the everyday pollution we see everyday, have a greater respect for nature and the rest will follow (including man made CO2). Carbon Credits won't help anyone and will only re-line the pockets of the wealthy yet again.
CO2 is a building block of life for plants and a waste product for animals (from respiration) and the burning of fossil fuels. If we don't have enough plants to metabolize this CO2, it becomes a spiral that builds on itself and that's what leads to ever increasing temperatures.
 

dr_pepper

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CO2 is a building block of life for plants and a waste product for animals (from respiration) and the burning of fossil fuels. If we don't have enough plants to metabolize this CO2, it becomes a spiral that builds on itself and that's what leads to ever increasing temperatures.

The point was, without CO2 there would be no life as we know it on earth. So to label it as a poison is stupid. People are getting the impression all CO2 is bad.
 

maroonedsailor

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Jun 10, 2007
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The point was, without CO2 there would be no life as we know it on earth. So to label it as a poison is stupid. People are getting the impression all CO2 is bad.
Balance people - balance - too much of a good thing and all that.The problem isn't pollution per se - it's too freakin many people. Have one kid and go get snipped - if you feel the need for a backup plan go freeze some sperm. Gee like that's so difficult.
 
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