Ghomeshi will be acquitted

Tugela

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Here's a question. Why didn't the Crown obtain whatever Jian Ghomeshi showed the CBC and the reporter for the Toronto Star? It's not like there were no reports that other evidence was out there. The CBC said they viewed "Graphic Evidence", the Toronto Star interviewed numerous women prior to Jian Ghomeshi being fired. The Crown didn't investigate, didn't ask for the "Graphic Evidence", didn't interview the women that the Toronto Star interviewed. Given that the women the Crown did accept the complaints of wouldn't know the truth if it was camped on their doorstep, surely the Crown would have had a better case with any of the other women.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/cbc-inquiry-concludes-management-mishandled-jian-ghomeshi-1.3035574


http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...a_campaign_of_false_allegations_at_fault.html


http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/10/26/cbc_fires_jian_ghomeshi_over_sex_allegations.html
Because it would be irrelevant if no complaint was made.

Most likely the video in question made it clear that there was consent as well, which again would render in irrelevant.

Your arguments about BDSM being illegal are not valid btw. The bit of the law code you cite has an intent requirement, and if you don't have the intent to render someone unconscious or render them unable to resist then the law has not been broken. BDSM is role playing, it is not the intent to cause grievous harm or do something to someone against their will. There are limits based on what is reasonable of course, but to suggest that it is all illegal is ridiculous.
 

sdw

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The Globe & Mail Cartoon

 

sdw

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I am not sure what their point is. Are people not supposed to defend themselves?
A way has to be found that is more friendly to the complainant. That wouldn't have helped in this case, perjury and collusion to gain revenge can not be permitted to determine a result of guilty.

Sandy Garossino has an article in the National Observer that illustrates how loaded the system is in favor of the Defendant. The Burden of Proof Chart illustrates this. However, society can not have the law "tweaked" to reduce that Burden of Proof that the Crown must meet. Therefore, the problem must be attacked by the Crown using more resources to prepare and validate the complainant.

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/02/11/opinion/why-crown-has-answer-ghomeshi-debacle



Sandy Garossino talks about this in her article:

In the Ghomeshi trial, three women complainants were eviscerated by defence counsel Marie Henein through a series of humiliating revelations that should have been uncovered much earlier in proper pre-trial interviews.

Is it possible Callaghan was taken by surprise? Nope, said one of the prosecutors.

"The Crown doesn’t go in blind,” she said, "You’re not going to go into any sex assault trial without knowing everything about your witnesses. You know their evidence is going to be tested.” She considers it standard practice to forcefully caution witnesses to hold nothing back in pre-trial interviews, impressing upon them that if there’s anything potentially damaging, the defence will find it, so "You’d better tell me about it now.”

Yet hold back these complainants did, whether from reluctance or embarrassment. It was the Crown's job in preparation to get that out of them ahead of time, to prevent exactly what happened. In their defence, the women say they didn’t think the bits they skipped were relevant and they weren’t asked to elaborate. That becomes a really jagged little pill to swallow, given the Crown’s expected standard of witness preparation.

Unless that never happened.

What especially damaged the first two witnesses' credibility is that they knew or suspected the same embarrassing details that Henein had in her possession, but wouldn’t volunteer or admit them until confronted with incontrovertible proof. The tone and content of emails they wrote at the time were sharply at odds with their evidence now. The third witness caved early, admitting that she had misled police about the full extent of her dealings with Ghomeshi.
What is clear is that the Crown knew through Marie Henein's third party application for the complainant's social media and email records what Marie Henein was going to use at trial. After all, the documents obtained by a third party application are given to both the Crown and the Defense. If the Crown was blindsided, it's because of laziness.

Back to Sandy Garossino

Despite having been warned not to discuss the case with DeCoutere, the third witness conceded in cross-examination that at times they did. Why this didn't set off alarm bells within the Crown is a mystery, especially since they knew all about those communications before the trial started. Potential collusion and contamination is a major issue for this trial, because even a hint of its existence can scupper some of the more effective tools the Crown can draw on, such as making a "similar fact" argument.
When the Crown received the third party documents, they should have re-interviewed the complainants and made a determination on whether or not to proceed with the trail. It would have been embarrassing to cancel the trial, probably causing howls of outrage by the politically correct, but nobody can claim that the trial didn't end up being humiliating to both the Crown and the complainant.

Back to Sandy Garossino

After DeCoutere’s testimony concluded, her lawyer read a statement outside Toronto’s Old City Hall courthouse, saying, "Violence against women is not about the behaviour of the women. It is not about how they cope with an assault or the details they commit to memory in the aftermath."
Well, Marie Henein referred to that in her summation "Perjury is not a sign of abuse"

Back to Sandy Garossino

Well, that is partially true.

But in a criminal trial, memory matters, and close only counts in horseshoes. More times than anyone can count, the courts have learned the hard way about the frailties of relying solely on human memory and observation. Check any Innocence Project.

The witnesses have this in their defence—if they were really lying, wouldn’t they have invented a better victimhood story? Nobody even yelled rape here. Except for the hard blows described by the first witness, the assaults claimed were quite minor and fleeting--so much so that were it not for the larger scandal, they'd never have been charged at all.

It’s pretty clear that these witnesses came forward as an explosive controversy erupted over anonymous sources in the Toronto Star’s exposé. They apparently acted to support others during a period when public opinion was overwhelmingly hostile to complainants who didn’t report to the police. But severe damage has been done to their credibility, and it's not about how they behaved.

Here’s what sexual assault survivors need to know: trial judges can overlook seemingly irrational behaviour such as a romantic or sexual attraction to an abuser, if the witness is honest and forthright. They might even be especially indulgent in the case of a powerful celebrity.

But if the truth about an embarrassing or inconvenient fact has to be dragged kicking and screaming out of a witness, most judges just aren't going to convict an accused and send them to prison. It can’t ever be forgotten that Jian Ghomeshi could potentially be sentenced to life in prison if all these charges were proven.

What if Jian Ghomeshi weren’t a well-heeled public figure with one of the best lawyers money can buy? What if he were an insolvent construction worker up on a murder rap, defended by an over-worked Legal Aid lawyer? The dangers of convicting an accused on very wobbly testimony are very grave.

Today Ghomeshi is a reviled figure, and the target of widespread condemnation. If anything, public controversy and hostility places an even greater ethical burden on the Crown to safeguard the integrity and independence of the court. I don’t see how Michael Callaghan can argue that the trial judge should convict, given the flaws in his case.

Ignoring reasonable doubt in a highly charged criminal trial is the stuff wrongful convictions are made of.

Which is why sexual assault survivors deserve a way out of a system that places 100% of the evidentiary burden on their all-too-human shoulders, and none on the alleged abuser. The criminal justice system robs survivors of their own agency, and of true fairness and equality.
The pre-trial process could be made more vigorous with the complainant(s) being interviewed in "Discovery Conferences" by the Crown Prosecutor and the Defendant's Lawyer. That way the examination wouldn't be in a public forum where there is a certain amount of "Performing to the Media" involved. The process would be identical to Examination for Discovery that is used in numerous incidences to crystallize the issues prior to trial. One of the problems with this case is the Crown and Police were "too kind" to the complainants. The lawyer for the defense could choose how much of their strategy they wished to reveal with their questions. (changed because PeaceGuy is correct, the defendant never has to testify) People may ask why the complainant should optionally be questioned outside of the court. If the complainants in this case had been vigorously questioned in pre-trial procedures, the trial could possibly not been such a debacle.

There could still be a trial, but there wouldn't be the blatant perjury and the Crown wouldn't find itself blindsided because they were too politically correct to ask tough questions.
 
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thodisipagal

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An interesting thread. I must say I have learned quite a bit from this thread.

Just one point of clarity. There is no plaintiff in this case; this is not a civil case. This is a criminal trial; there are only witnesses. All the four witnesses are Crown witnesses. Defence chose not to have its own witnesses and just chose to cross examine the Crown witnesses.

Crown presented no physical evidence and built the case around the complaints made by the witnesses and affidavit of a fourth witness.

Defence poked holes in the testimony of each of the four witnesses.
 

sdw

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Margaret Wente at the Globe and Mail published a piece today
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the-biggest-losers-in-the-ghomeshi-debacle/article28741727/

February 12, 2016
The biggest losers in the Ghomeshi debacle
By MARGARET WENTE
Almost everyone lost in this trial, especially alleged victims of sexual assault, who will be more reluctant than ever to come forward

It's all over but the verdict – and the shouting. To many people's outrage, Jian Ghomeshi – perhaps the most widely loathed man in Canada – is unlikely to be convicted for alleged crimes that happened in another decade. There is almost no corroborating evidence, and all the witnesses were, to put it kindly, shaky.

It's not too soon to say that almost everybody lost. His reputation is beyond repair. All three complainants were cut to ribbons for varying degrees of misleading and incomplete testimony. The details they forgot to mention include that notorious e-mail from Lucy DeCoutere, hours after the alleged assault, in which she expressed the desire to "fuck your brains out."

The Crown looks, at best, hapless, and appears to have failed miserably in preparing the witnesses for the rigours of trial. The police look terrible for failing to conduct a proper investigation and failing to uncover important evidence that proved devastating to the witnesses. The same can be said of their lawyers. The only winner is the razor-sharp defence lawyer Marie Henein, she of the clacking stilettos. She did her job.

But the biggest losers were not in court. They are the many victims of sexual assault who now, because of this fiasco, will be more reluctant than ever to come forward.

The problems with the case started at the very beginning. The charges against Mr. Ghomeshi were brought in an atmosphere of intense media-induced frenzy. As dozens of women came forward to accuse him in the media, he became the archetype of the predatory male. Sympathy for the alleged victims was overwhelming, and the public demanded action. In the fall of 2014, Bill Blair, Toronto's then-police chief, responded to the pressure by urging victims to come forward and contact the police.

Ms. DeCoutere was one who did. Why didn't she go to police at the time of the alleged assault? Because – as she told the CBC in 2014 – she didn't think she had a case. It was just her word against his. She wasn't physically injured. "I knew enough to know there would be so many holes in the story it would be like, we got nothing for you, honey."

The case was so full of holes that some people are now wondering how it was ever brought to trial. But if police hadn't charged Mr. Ghomeshi, the outcry would have been deafening.

An astonishing number of people calling for Mr. Ghomeshi's head don't seem to grasp the fundamental principles of our legal system. They seem baffled by the concept of innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. They don't seem to understand the difference between belief and proof. They are outraged that the defendant was not obliged to appear in the witness box, and that complainants are subject to scrutiny. Some people do grasp these things, but think there should be different rules for sex-assault cases. If so, I'd like to know what they should be.

It must also be said that the victim lobby has done itself no favours. Its tone has been both strident and absolute. The notion that we should believe the victims – no matter what – not only is unhelpful, but has been thoroughly discredited by a series of widely publicized cases1 (e.g., Rolling Stone, in which the victim made it all up). In fact, the public is more sophisticated than the victim lobby seems to think. People have a great deal of sympathy for sexual-assault victims. But they don't think that means an automatic free pass.

The victim lobby also lacks a sense of proportion. Like it or not, there's a difference between slapping, hair-pulling and brief incidents of choking (the accusations here) and rape at knifepoint. Bill Cosby is suspected of sexually violating dozens of women after he drugged them. None of this is excusable. But some of it is worse.

Nor is "trauma" a satisfying blanket explanation for every victim's behaviour. People understand perfectly well why some women placate their abusers. But "trauma" does not necessarily explain why someone who barely knows the guy at all would write lovesick letters, or send bikini photographs, after he slapped her around on a first date. There may be other reasons. Besides, at least one of the complainants in this case wasn't traumatized at all. She told him to get lost (after giving him a hand job).

We need to have a more honest conversation about why some women – women who, dare I say it, ought to know better – behave the way they do. This is not meant as an excuse for male behaviour. But plenty of women are attracted to men who are mad, bad and dangerous to know, as well as to men who seem quite nice at first but turn out to be predatory jerks. Most of us have encountered men such as these. Most of us have learned to run the other way. Sorry, but if a guy slaps you around on your first date, maybe you shouldn't go on a second one.

People are not allowed to say such things these days, for fear they'll be accused of "whacking the victim2." But that is simply what we tell our daughters: Watch out for yourself. There's enough trouble in this world without inviting more.
References

reason.com/blog/2015/12/01/one-year-after-rolling-stones-uva-rape-d
www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/wha...-and-current-systemic-problem/article28695366
 

thodisipagal

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Wente couldn't be more wrong. Criminal justice system is not stacked against real victims of sexual assault than victims of other crimes. Is the criminal justice system automatically supposed to render a guilty verdict on anybody accused of sexually crimes so that the victims are encouraged to come forward? This is what this American-born conservative pundit seems to suggest? Are we supposed to turn our criminal justice system around on its head just to make those people feel good who consider all accused of sexual crimes are automatically guilty beyond reasonable doubt?

Wente should learn to speak for herself. She says Ghomeshi is perhaps the most widely loathed man in Canada? Really? Is this plagiarist in the garb of journalist now, what, a clairvoyant?
 

rexxx

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Wente couldn't be more wrong. Criminal justice system is not stacked against real victims of sexual assault than victims of other crimes. Is the criminal justice system automatically supposed to render a guilty verdict on anybody accused of sexually crimes so that the victims are encouraged to come forward? This is what this American-born conservative pundit seems to suggest? Are we supposed to turn our criminal justice system around on its head just to make those people feel good who consider all accused of sexual crimes are automatically guilty beyond reasonable doubt?

Wente should learn to speak for herself. She says Ghomeshi is perhaps the most widely loathed man in Canada? Really? Is this plagiarist in the garb of journalist now, what, a clairvoyant?
I'm not sure you read beyond the 1st sentence its a very balanced and logical piece
 

johnsmit

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The article summed up the case guitar well and the whole arena of adult behavior when it comes to whst wrong with sets in behaviour .including women saying they were assulted and abused..

I agree with one of her sumation is that the women were not injured I'm any digree ..and they prob would of had problems pressing charges .and the time of the incident..
It was only I'm thus media frecy that the police chef thought he needed to charge gemeshy because the public demanded it
Wrong reason .
 

sdw

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The article summed up the case guitar well and the whole arena of adult behavior when it comes to whst wrong with sets in behaviour .including women saying they were assulted and abused..

I agree with one of her sumation is that the women were not injured I'm any digree ..and they prob would of had problems pressing charges .and the time of the incident..
It was only I'm thus media frecy that the police chef thought he needed to charge gemeshy because the public demanded it
Wrong reason .
Rule of the mob then, Rule of the mob now. The howling is going to be tremendous on March 24th

The person that argues that the law should find all accused sexual offenders guilty - no need for a trial, also argues that a stupid idiot that won't drop a knife when police officers are pointing guns at him should have been able to stab an officer before the police can use force. Consistency is not what mobs want.
 

rexxx

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Rule of the mob then, Rule of the mob now. The howling is going to be tremendous on March 24th

The person that argues that the law should find all accused sexual offenders guilty - no need for a trial, also argues that a stupid idiot that won't drop a knife when police officers are pointing guns at him should have been able to stab an officer before the police can use force. Consistency is not what mobs want.
To stab anyone he would have to come off the bus he needs to at least make a move towards the door before you light him up
 

sdw

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To stab anyone he would have to come off the bus he needs to at least make a move towards the door before you light him up
He did, watch the video. He came down one step before he was shot 3 times.
 

sdw

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Two articles one from the Toronto Star from one of the many that think Jian Ghomeshi is guilty.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...-believe-jian-ghomeshis-accusers-dimanno.html

For what it’s worth, I believe Jian Ghomeshi’s accusers: DiManno
The trial of Jian Ghomeshi unfolded the way it did because the complainants were swaddled in fuzzy investigative treatment.

I believe them.

The three women who testified that Jian Ghomeshi had punched, slapped and squeezed his hands around their throats.

The assault in the sexual assault allegation and to which they had not consented.

And do you know what that’s worth, the core substance of their accusations? Not a damn thing.

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. Latin for “false in one, false in everything,” the common-law legal principle that a witness who testifies falsely about one matter is not credible to testify about any matter.
The National Post's Aillen Donnelly interviewed a lawyer, he has an interesting take on how Marie Henein handled the case. Basically says that her hands were tied with what Jian Ghomeshi had told her under Attorney Client Privilege.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...id-excellent-job-fellow-defence-attorney-says
Deconstructing Marie Henein: Ghomeshi lawyer did ‘excellent job,’ fellow defence attorney says
Aileen Donnelly | February 12, 2016 8:03 PM ET
More from Aileen Donnelly | @aileendonnelly

Among the many lawyers watching the sexual assault trial of Jian Ghomesh was defence attorney Luc LeClair, who represented Luka Magnotta, convicted of killing and dismembering a Chinese student. The National Post’s Aileen Donnelly asked what can be gleaned from the strategy deployed by Marie Henein, Ghomeshi’s lawyer.

Q: How was the performance?

A: You’ll have to wait until March 24. I think she did an excellent job. She brought up a lot of inconsistencies. I have to say the complainants didn’t help themselves. They just made her job a little easier, and the Crown’s job a little harder.

The question is whether she challenged the central issues of each of these accusations. You can challenge everything, but it’s going to depend on whether the judge finds that the credibility of these witnesses was so challenged he cannot rely on any of it. It could be argued that the central issues — that’s what the Crown argued — were not challenged.

The reason I’m saying that is because I’ve done that myself, and I’ve been told by the judge, “Well, you didn’t challenge the central story.” And it’s just that’s a very, very interesting question, because if you don’t challenge what really happened, then what can the judge do?

Q: Is that something you would be watching for — if the way she used this strategy was effective?

A: Yes. Because, like you said, is it a peripheral issue or not? I mean the pushing or pulling, the Crown could argue, or the judge might say, well, that’s irrelevant. She ended up on the ground. One slap, two slaps, the sequence of events. Of course, it’s important. So that’s really interesting to me in the case. Seeing how Marie Henein was going to get around that. I wanted to see how she was going to deal with that because if your client is going to testify, you have to put his version to the witness. You have to say, “This did not happen. You were in bed and you had sex in bed.” That would be one version against another. She didn’t do that, she didn’t put any other version to any of these witnesses. The only thing she did was say to them, basically, your memory is flawed And, obviously, they lied in court. That’s a very big deal.

The judge could find Ghomeshi guilty on one of the counts involving one complainant. The choking he is going to throw out. The Crown didn’t even bother responding to Henein’s attacks on that in her closing statements, which I thought was a little strange.

I think with the first complainant there were two counts of sexual assault, so he may convict Ghomeshi on one of these assaults, but not on the second and the third women’s counts, because they exchanged so many emails, and because the last one lied. The judge may have a reasonable doubt at the end of the day.

Q: What was the case you referred to when you used the same tactic as Henein?

A: I’ve done that many times.

Q: So it’s a known tactic?

A: Yes, it depends on the complainant. Well, sometimes that’s all you have if you’re not putting your client on the stand. We don’t know what Jian Ghomeshi told Marie Henein happened with each of these complainants because she never put him on the stand — which is not a very strong defence. So then you’re left with attacking their version of the story. You asked me what happened in other cases, well, sometimes they were found not guilty and sometimes guilty, or guilty of one of the counts.

Q: What can we learn from Henein’s strategy about what Ghomeshi might have told her under attorney-client privilege?

A: He could have said to her, “I did these things,” in which case her hands are tied. She cannot tell the witness she lied. But she could question everything around it. So if Ghomeshi said, “I didn’t do this” or “It was consensual, we were kissing and she said, ‘Put your hands around my neck,’ ” then that’s a different story. But Henein didn’t put that to the complainants. If he had said, “I did do these things exactly as they are,” then it would have been very difficult for her to say, “You’re lying about these things.”


It was only to Lucy DeCoutere that she said this was a bald-faced lie, I think. With the first witness, Henein suggested that whatever happened in the car wasn’t that bad and that whatever happened at Ghomeshi’s home, she couldn’t remember; and whatever happened to the third witness on the park bench wasn’t that bad and that she herself told police she didn’t think it was that bad.

I wasn’t there for the first witness, but from what I read, and even in closing submissions, it was interesting because prosecutor Michelle Robitalle didn’t say it was a lie, it didn’t happen.

But at the end Henein made a very clever final submission — she said is the truth is between the lines. She didn’t say they lied. She said you cannot rely on what they said — which is an interesting closing. The judge is not being told it’s not true. But it may not be enough for reasonable doubt.

It was a very clever presentation of the evidence from the defence’s perspective. Sometimes she was skirting around the issue. And I think at the end of the day they made a bald assertion. They were helped by complainants who made terrible mistakes.

Q: In her closing, Henein suggested this trial would have played out in a completely different way had the complainants taken their oath to police seriously and divulged all the information up front. It felt like she was almost acknowledging the fact the defence’s case was built on the backs of these women’s mistakes.

A: They could not have used that same defence strategy. They would have probably been stuck, you’re right. She almost pretty much admitted they got a couple of lucky aces in there.

The interview has been edited and condensed
 

frisky business

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. . . argues that a stupid idiot that won't drop a knife when police officers are pointing guns at him should have been able to stab an officer before the police can use force. . .
Dude, I think you are referring again to the murder trial of police officer Forcillo in Toronto.

From what I remember of your previous posts, you have been divorced but I doubt you have kids. How would you like it if it was your kid up there in the streetcar that night -- distraught, depressed, and in a bad way? When he was shot in the first volley he was holding a wimpass three inch knife, standing still, and 20 feet from anyone. The officer had many, many options otner than kill the lad.

As a society we give our police sidearms so they can shoot people as a last resort only. The idea of this uniformed, sociopathic, trophy killer offing a semiunarmed young man -- who was making an obvious cry for help -- is completely opposed to basic Canadian values.

My heart aches for the family of young Mr Yatim, shot and killed unnecessarily. The guy needed a bro that night, not an assassin.

FB
 

sdw

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Dude, I think you are referring again to the murder trial of police officer Forcillo in Toronto.

From what I remember of your previous posts, you have been divorced but I doubt you have kids. How would you like it if it was your kid up there in the streetcar that night -- distraught, depressed, and in a bad way? When he was shot in the first volley he was holding a wimpass three inch knife, standing still, and 20 feet from anyone. The officer had many, many options otner than kill the lad.

As a society we give our police sidearms so they can shoot people as a last resort only. The idea of this uniformed, sociopathic, trophy killer offing a semiunarmed young man -- who was making an obvious cry for help -- is completely opposed to basic Canadian values.

My heart aches for the family of young Mr Yatim, shot and killed unnecessarily. The guy needed a bro that night, not an assassin.

FB
Police don't drive around with an arsenal of specialized weapons for possible situations. It's not "cost efficient", politicians barely tolerate police officers having uniforms and city provided vehicles.

You don't let people stab you. Even a .5 inch blade can kill you, ask the flight crews that died as the planes were taken over on 911. The hijackers were using box cutters, they still killed the flight crews.



In a perfect world with a bottomless arsenal in his possession, Forcillo would have had the ability to fire rubber bullets. However, because they killed people in Vancouver and Toronto, police don't use rubber bullets any more. He wouldn't be driving a police car, he'd be driving a specialized van with specialists on child raising, domestic, mental and hazard problem solving. That way he'd have the specialized tools and advice for any situation that arose.

The reason that Forcillo was acquitted on the firing of the first 3 shots is that he did everything exactly as he was trained to do. The reason Forcillo was convicted on the following shots is that nobody is allowed to shoot into a dying body that doesn't offer a threat.

ps, My kids don't use drugs. They don't let their kids use drugs. We don't think it's society's job to raise our children, we think it's our job.
 
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sdw

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The Globe and Mail has divined the Tea Leaves for hints on Justice William Horkins's decision on March 24th

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...t-found-in-judges-background/article28752677/
“I found the complainant to be an articulate and forthright witness,” Justice Horkins wrote in his decision. He also noted: “The version of events given by the accused and his supporting witnesses quite frankly, and very bluntly, strike me as somewhat incredible.”

Still, he acquitted the defendant because “reasonable doubt” had arisen due to conflicting testimony.

His conclusion may give a hint of what he is considering in the matter of R. v Ghomeshi.

“At the end of a properly conducted criminal trial, where the evidence has been put in at its highest by skillful counsel, such as at this trial, it is very often impossible to confidently declare that the truth has clearly been discovered and the allegations resolved one way or the other. This is one of those trials. I am afraid that I am left in a state of great uncertainty as to where the truth lies in this case and this is a classic form of reasonable doubt,” he wrote.

“When one considers the grave consequences of being wrongfully convicted of an offence such as this, one can understand why nothing less than proof beyond reasonable doubt can be accepted as the foundation of a criminal conviction.”
 

thodisipagal

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I'm not sure you read beyond the 1st sentence its a very balanced and logical piece
You got me there. I actually didn't read beyond the fourth paragraph, where Wente says, "But the biggest losers were not in court. They are the many victims of sexual assault who now, because of this fiasco, will be more reluctant than ever to come forward."

This paragraph implies that unless the accused is found guilty, the feminist movement (in particular, the victim lobby) will see a setback, that unless the accused is found guilty, the real victims of sexual violence will be discouraged to come forward. I see such assertion as activism. I support feminist activism, but not when the "victim lobby" says anything but a guilty verdict is disservice to society in general and women in particular. We all know, a criminal trial is not a venue for feminist activism. I think the common tendency to see complainants of sexual assault as automatic victims and subject of such complaints as automatic perpetrator as actually unhelpful to the cause of feminism and feminist movement. In the Ghomeshi trial, we don't yet have a victim; we only have complainants and witnesses; and we don't yet have convicted criminal; we only have an accused.

But I'll agree with you that on the whole, Wente does provide a balanced and logical analysis. I withdraw my blanket criticism, but I reserve my observation about the common refrain that unless there is a guilty verdict the the victims of sexual violence will be discouraged to come forward.
 

vancity_cowboy

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"But the biggest losers were not in court. They are the many victims of sexual assault who now, because of this fiasco, will be more reluctant than ever to come forward."
i also take issue with this statement in the article

'the many victims of sexual assault' should already know, but some apparently don't, that when you are dealing with police and the officers of the court, you don't lie or hold things back - you tell the truth... all of it, or you risk fucking up any attempt the crown may make in helping you get the conviction you seek

this of course presupposes that the complainants know the meaning of the words 'the truth', an assumption which seems to be hard to support in this day and age
 

windowshopr

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Sep 23, 2014
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When he was shot in the first volley he was holding a wimpass three inch knife, standing still, and 20 feet from anyone. The officer had many, many options otner than kill the lad.
FB
I'm not condoning the shooting, but I have to say that I used to think it was crazy for police to shoot someone with a knife, if they were even more than 5 feet away. I had a little demonstration done by a friend who is an officer though. He stood either 10 or 20 feet away (fairly big difference, I know) and you'd be surprised how quickly someone can close that distance from a stand still position - especially if your gun isn't already drawn.

I think they're trained to shoot before it gets to any point of danger. If they believe it's a perceived threat, then don't wait until the last second to decide to put yourself in danger. I think. Hopefully someone with knowledge of LE can clarify.
 
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