Gas Prices

[6nanaimo9]

when will enough be enough!? at what price should we revolt!? can anyone see us paying $2 a litre?!!?

 

[Sit_on_my_face]

Some analysts are calling fuel at the pumps to hit $2 - $2.20 a litre a year from now.

Remember when the price of oil was around $70 a barrel and analysts called for $100 a barrel. Many people didn't believe it and look where we are now. $135.00 a barrel as of this morning on BNN ( canadian stock market - business channel ).

Nowaday, nothing surprises me more. The reality is that there is nothing you or I can do about it. There are protests all over the world about this and does it doesn't accomplish anything. This is out of our hands despite what people say.

I follow and participate in the finacial markets quite a bit I will say that at some point oil/ gas will pull back but how much and when is the millioin dollare question. The powers at be don't seem to do anything about it and people put up with it. The days of cheap gas and oil are gone forever though. Bank on that.

I do know that the gas prices are killing alot of poeple now. I can't imagine gas hitting $2 a litre!! Then what?

 

[Thais]

I think a lot of people should watch this documentary: the End of Suburbia.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0446320/
It can be found on streaming video if you google it.

As for "then what?"... redeveloping railways, redesigning our cities for multiple-storey buildings and public transit instead of single-unit car-dependent dwellings, accepting lifestyle changes...
Not pretty. Not easy.

Revolt... If we are indeed at the Peak Oil, who are you planning to revolt against? Nature? History that put us at this spot?

 

[LowerMainlander]

when will enough be enough!? at what price should we revolt!? can anyone see us paying $2 a litre?!!?

They've been paying more than that in europe for years. We've had it easy for a long time by comparison.

Which is not to say that I don't think the oil companies are in collusion with one another and aren't guilty of price setting. But that's another argument.

 

[CODe333]

Some analysts are calling fuel at the pumps to hit $2 - $2.20 a litre a year from now.

I can't imagine gas hitting $2 a litre!! Then what?

Seems like oil and gas prices are showing up commonly as cover stories in news mags. Two recent examples are Maclean's (June 9 2008 issue) "Life at $200 a barrel" and the Econmist (May 31 2008 issue) "RecOil". The Maclean's article looks at the implications of oil prices in $100 increments ($100/b, $200/b and $300/b), looking at possible outcomes (not a pretty picture). It doesn't help that many of the oil rich areas of the globe are troubled politically and militarily or that food supplies are heavily dependent on oil prices at every stage of growth, harvest and transport. The impact of these developments is being felt across the board. Inflation is rising in concert with oil prices.

So it surprised me last week when I had a meeting with an buisness executive friend from Europe who is very much in the know about energy, banking and environmental issues and heard a lot of very good news from him. I am positive I will be able to retire nicely within the next two years. There are technological solutions coming down the tubes, some of them totally unknown in the press because the work is being done off the grid, so to speak, and does not fit into the neat categories traditionally used for analysis of energy issues. I felt VERY optimistic after lunch but still came away feeling that the next few years are going to be difficult due to oil prices and water shortages. After that things will get very much better. In the short term prices are going to rise, and so will the level of global conflict. On the other hand the next 24 months will see some surprising and positive developments in the energy and water sectors, developments likely to revive the world economy in a big way. I don't claim to be entirely objective about these matters - I am almost totally invested in alternative energy. That said I believe there are good reasons to think we will adjust and that solutions will come from several sectors simultaneously. In the meantime my heart goes out to family, friends and colleagues who are dependant on vehicles to get to work and live their lives. Many people I know are cutting back travel plans this summer. I'd hate to work for an airline right now. As a single guy who lives walking distance from work I have it easy it seems.

I wonder how these developments (both short-term and long-term) will affect the prices of luxury goods and services (e.g. SP service). I for one am quite positive that alternatives to hydrocarbons are on the way and in forms that you don't have to a hippy to appreciate. Personally I'm banking on it and am planning to spend much time and money on my hobbies when I retire.

In the meantime how are folks dealing with rising gasoline and food prices? My grocery bill seems to be growing daily.

 

[CalgaryJenn]

Ironic that Alberta produces more oil than Texas, and yet we pay more at the pumps in BC and Alberta than most places in North America.

 

[Oldfart]

The Yanks Don't Have a Clue

The Yanks started bitching when their pump price exceeded $4 a gallon.

Do you know what $4 per gallon translates as up here?

$1.30 per litre!

Raise your hand if you, like me, long for the good old days of only $1.30 per litre.

 

[CalgaryJenn]

Hubby and I were just talking the other day. Remembering when Calgary used to have gas price wars, and remember when you paid .42 litre, and you could turn another corner and find it for .39 litre? People would get so pissed off that they didn't find it for .39 before they filled up at .42
If gas ever went back to .42 litre, people would be lined up for miles. Ya just don't and won't see gas price wars ever again. Not with the way things are now.

 

[mick_eight]

It's simple who is the cause of high prices, the goverment. In mexico the price is 2.50 gal, in Tucson az the price is 3.79 cheapest in us. So for 70 mi drive the savings are worth it.In venezuela the price is 25 cents a gal.Canada is a oil producer like mexico and venezuela , so why the huge gap? mexico has all gov run gas stations Pemex and venezuela has citco. We need to get gov to kick all oil companies out, take over production and run all gas stations and sell gas at cost. After all we own the gas not the oil companies.They pay a little royalities to gov for the oil but look at the profits they make ,its sick. If the shills in ottawa had some balls we'd be paying 10 cents a litre not 1.40.

 

[SeaToSky]

I blame the environmentalists. If they haven't been doing things like opposing offshore drilling and nuclear energy, and putting up road blocks to building refineries for the last few decades, gas price would be a lot lower today, and we'd have so much nuclear energy we would glow in the dark ourselves.

 

[rafterman]

It's simple who is the cause of high prices, the goverment. In mexico the price is 2.50 gal, in Tucson az the price is 3.79 cheapest in us. So for 70 mi drive the savings are worth it.In venezuela the price is 25 cents a gal.Canada is a oil producer like mexico and venezuela , so why the huge gap? mexico has all gov run gas stations Pemex and venezuela has citco. We need to get gov to kick all oil companies out, take over production and run all gas stations and sell gas at cost. After all we own the gas not the oil companies.They pay a little royalities to gov for the oil but look at the profits they make ,its sick. If the shills in ottawa had some balls we'd be paying 10 cents a litre not 1.40.

Goddamnit Gas should be FREE!!!

 

[HeMadeMeDoIt]

I was in Saudi Arabia recently and the price of gas was fixed around the 10cent mark. It had recently gone through a decrease since King Abdulla officially took the reigns.

Most countries that are running prices below the 50-75 cent mark are subsidizing it to keep some piece of shit dictator in power.

Canadian oil is particularly expensive to extract at close to $50/bbl as opposed to the Arabian/Persian Gulf oil at a couple of bucks.

 

[Noob888]

I am filling up in Blaine, enough of this shhit. Yeah, those assholes by the border are gouging us Canadians too, but not nearly as bad as we're getting gouged by the gas companies here and the [tomato] soup with his carbon tax next month.

FWIW, people can try to justify all the want the high price of gas we pay here in Metro Vancouver, but I say those people are living in denial to what's really going on. It makes no difference that in the UK they pay X amount per litre or gallon, we live in Canada, not in the UK or Europe.. We pay one of the highest prices for gasoline in the continent. Besides, we're exporting our oil out of the country....so it really must be expensive to extract.

 

[mick_eight]

Mick Eight: The reason other countries like Venezuela have cheaper oil is because it's subsidized by their local governments. In short, they use tax money to keep the prices lower. Would you prefer that to paying fair market value ? China just cut back on it's subsidizes because of the cost.

The high cost of oil is almost entirely due to the spread between supply and demand. It's razor tight. The North Sea went into decline 8 years ago & production continues to fall yearly. Next year, the UK will have to start importing oil versus exporting it, further pushing up prices. Mexico is in decline, the US peaks 38 years ago & Russia is near Peak production. Alberta has a great amount of oil but it's heavy oil in the Sands & that presents huge problems with extraction (water, natural gas usage, environmental destruction). They'll be lucky if they even get to the 5 MBD in Fort Mac

It's highly likely we're entering Peak Oil and if we don't take steps to mitigate the problem we'll have a real problem on our hands. We need to immediately move ourselves off fossil fuels & invest in renewable energy NOW while we have the cash flow to build wind mills, solar, etc. God knows when we hit recession we aren't about to have the capital.

Oil prices will probably sit around the 135 dollar mark for a bit as demand destruction enters the marketplace in the USA. But the long term trend of oil prices are up up & away. Peak Oil is something people need to understand because it's going to be the greatest challenge to humankind in our history.

BS You're just sprouting the party line. Venesuela supsidizing the oil Not! the common folk get shit.Its sounds like you've bought the 7 sisters BS hook line and sinker. Try to think outside the box for a little while . You'd be stunned at what you may learn. But then again you may be a little stunned already so it won't be far to go. Now tell me mexico is doing it to help the people.

 

[CODe333]

Some people may find this article on OPEC and oil prices from the UK's Daily Telegraph of interest here. The comments following the article reflect a similar range of opinion as exressed here.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/05/27/ccom127.xml

 

[wilde]

Tax Components of Gasoline at $1 per Litre

In Vancouver

Provincial Excise Tax 20.5
Federal Excise Tax 10
Total GST (incl. tax on tax) 6.8
Total Tax on $1 per Litre of gas is 37.3

So while we are getting fraked up the ass, the government is laughing all the way to the bank.

.

 

[Noob888]

Tax Components of Gasoline at $1 per Litre

So while we are getting fraked up the ass, the government is laughing all the way to the bank..

I think it's the Christian common-wealth attitude. Just smile and walk away as you get a stick shoved up your ass.

 

[mick_eight]

LOL, sure Mick. What's the "party line"? It's common knowledge Venezuela subsidizes the price of fuel in it's own country.

Nice attempt at a flame war tho dude, but careful, I might buy you out and sell you off like a oil futures contract

Common knowledge by who wikipedia. The people own the oil , and the gov is the people. Buy me out LOL. STFU or I might sell you to the Arabs, they love misinformed westerners.

 

[mick_eight]

but the only one who's got a clue in this thread is dood.

However, it's unlikely that we're approaching peak oil because the evidence is that we are already in it. Siimply put peak oil is when we reach the point where oil production, which has been increasing (as new fields are brought online) now begins an irreversable decline. Another way of looking at it is that demand will exceed physical supply.

Right now the only thing that will extend the existing supply of oil is a serious recession/depression which would lower demand.

It may well be too late to implement alternate energy strategies because no single source of energy can do what oil can do with such effeciency. In this regard watch for the letters EROEI, they stand for "energy returned on energy invested." They explain, for instance, why the Alberta tar sands aren't nearly as good an energy deal as light crude near the surface such as in Saudi Arabia or Iraq.

Peak oil is a bit like a tsunami, it doesn't know or care whether you believe in it or not--it is going to wreak holy hell anyway !!!

There is no shortage of oil,there are thousands of capped wells in Alberta, capped by the oil cartel. The offshore oil reserves off the coast of Newfoundland is bigger then the middle east fields. You don't think the cartels want people to think there is a shortage, exxon made 40 billion profit in first 3 months this year. If the truth was known about the reserves the speculators couldn't drive the price up . You morons are buying into the cartels bullshit and running around " The sky is falling , the sky is falling" You and doody need to research a little more then the nightly news to see what is really going on. Also the oil off Newfoundland is what is known in the patch as " sweet crude" cheap to refine and there is a shit load of it there. Just keep buying the cartels BS, its people like you they are counting on to keep the profits up .

 

[rafterman]

More news on the oil front.

$7-a-gallon gas, 10-million fewer cars: Rubin
MATTHEW TREVISAN
13:47 EST Thursday, Jun 26, 2008

A new forecast calls for gasoline prices to hit $7 (U.S.) a gallon in the next two years and oil to soar to $200 a barrel by 2010.

The report by CIBC World Markets also predicts there will be 10 million fewer cars on the road in the United States by 2012.

“Over the next four years, we are likely to witness the greatest mass exodus of vehicles off America's highways in history,” Jeffrey Rubin, the lead author, wrote in Thursday's report.

Economist Benjamin Tal, who co-authored the report with Mr. Rubin, said Canadians can expect to pay about $1.85 to $2.00 per litre of gas at the pumps by 2010.

Mr. Tal also expects the numbers of Canadian vehicles on the road to drop by 700,000 by 2012 – much less than the 10 million predicted in the U.S.

“We don't have the same story in the sense that most low income Canadians have better access to public transportation,” he said, referring to the report's U.S. calculations that estimates that about half the cars coming off the road will be from Americans who make less than $25,000.

In Canada, the decrease will be mainly come from middle-class families that own two or three cars, Mr. Tal said.

By 2012, the report predicts, the average miles driven in the United States will decrease by 15 per cent, and sports utility vehicles, which accounted for almost 60 per cent of U.S. market share in 2006, will drop to less than half that level. Overall vehicle sales will drop from 14 million to 11 million by 2012 – the lowest level since the early 1980s.

“While some of the current weakness in vehicle sales can be attributed to the economic slowdown, we estimate that highest gasoline prices have had almost twice the effect,” Mr. Rubin and Mr. Tal wrote.

Basic laws of supply and demand are “no longer operative” in the crude oil market, the report says, compelling CIBC economists to raise their target for West Texas Intermediate by $20 a barrel, to $150 next year, and by $50 a barrel by 2010, for $200.

“Higher oil prices spell stagflation for the U.S. economy next year, and we have marked down our GDP growth to barely over 1 per cent for 2009,” Mr. Rubin wrote.

The report also predicts that by late next year, gasoline sales in the United States, growing at a rate five times that of the rest of retail sales, will overtake grocery store spending as the largest item in households' non-vehicle retail spending.

All of this means a “quantum” shift in driving habits, the report says. Americans will drive less in smaller vehicles, perhaps mimicking countries in Europe where fewer people drive their cars to work than in the United States.

(In the United Kingdom, the report says, 60 per cent of people use cars to get to work compared to the more than 90 per cent of Americans.)

“Of course the flip side to this equation is public transit,” wrote Mr. Rubin and Mr. Tal. American “obsession with the car is mirrored in its avoidance of public transit.

“When it comes to taking the train, bus or subway, the U.S. ranks the lowest among OECD countries, just as it ranks the highest among the same group when it comes to the use of the car,” the economists wrote.

Earlier Thursday, Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries president Chakib Khelil said in an interview that crude could rise as high as $170 a barrel this summer.

“I forecast prices probably between $150-170 during this summer. That will perhaps ease towards the end of the year,” he told France 24 television, according to a text of the interview released by the station.

The comments came as crude prices neared $135 per barrel, after rising about 40 per cent this year.

Mr. Khelil said he doubted prices would climb as high as $200.

“I think that the devaluation of the dollar against the euro, if everything goes as I think it will, will be of the order of perhaps 1-2 per cent and this will probably generate an $8 rise in the price of oil,” he said.

Mr. Khelil said it had been clearly established that speculation was affecting markets.

“It's not a question, but a certainty. The problem is the extent of that speculation on the market,” he said, adding that the effect of the subprime crisis in the United States had affected oil markets.

Crude traded above $140 USD for the first time today.