Fun for the whole family... Death for a few unlucky horses.

[Miss*Bijou]

What a celebration!
A barbaric tradition to be proud of! :thumb: And the 2012 edition did not disappoint:

The spectators sure got their money's worth: 3 horses dead and one injured - all in one race. That's what I call entertainment. Knock 'em dead, Cowboys!

(Honestly though, they shouldn't hide the horses when they euthanize them - if people want to pay and support that shit, they should get their money's worth and watch the horses die too! Let them be entertained until the end, eh?! )

3 horses dead after chuckwagon crash in Calgary
1 horse also injured in Thursday's Rangeland Derby


Calgary Stampede officials have confirmed three horses are dead and one is injured following a chuckwagon crash during a Thursday night race.

In a video of the accident, Chad Harden's wagon takes a serious tumble in the backstretch of the Rangeland Derby's fourth heat, which brought down a number of his horses and an outrider — a cowboy who loads poles at the start and must finish the race with the chuckwagon.

Stampede spokesperson Doug Fraser said two horses had to be put down by veterinarians. Harden and the outrider are both doing fine.

"One of Harden’s outrider horses also collided with the wagon and sustained serious injuries," Fraser told reporters in a prepared statement. "The left lead horse, which was the horse that collapsed, experienced a fatal event the nature of which is undetermined at this time. The right lead horse and the outrider horse were humanely euthanized due to the severity of their injuries."

The horse on the right wheel sustained non-life threatening injuries and is receiving veterinary attention, according to officials. The injuries will require surgery but the horse will survive.

The left wheeler and the other outrider horse were not injured.

A tearful Harden, overcome with grief after the loss of his horses, spoke to reporters shortly after the animals were euthanized on the dirt track, calling them "part of our family."

"We love those horses," he said, his voice breaking with emotion. "The outriding horse is an 18-year-old horse, I've had him for 13 years. He's part of our family, he's supposed to be my kid's horse."

Speaking of his right lead horse, which helped Harden win the 2009 Calgary Stampede, he said the horse was irreplaceable.

"They're just like humans, they're our family," he said. "It's just devastating for our whole family. It's hard to take."

The Stampede introduced changes last year aimed at making chuckwagon races safer for both horses and competitors.

The move came after six horses died in 2010 — two of heart attacks.

All horses are now inspected by veterinarians when the animals arrive at the Stampede and before and after every race.

The rules also require that the horses be given a mandatory day of rest after every four days of racing.

In order to reduce crowding on the track and the chance of collisions, the number of outriders alongside each competing chuckwagon was decreased to two from four. Several of the riders had been seriously injured in previous years.

At last year's Calgary Stampede, safety officials fined Chuckwagon driver Cliff Cunningham $12,500 — the steepest fine ever levied on a driver at the event — following a race collision that led to the death of a horse. The initial fine was only $2,500, but the penalty was later raised when investigating officials reviewed footage of the accident and interviewed other drivers involved.

Animal welfare groups have continued to cry foul over the popular Stampede, in spite of recent efforts to appease such organizations. Animal rights activists have long charged that the rodeo amounts to sanctioned animal cruelty.

The Vancouver Humane Society has specifically targeted the chuckwagon races, expressing concern over the safety of the event and noting that more than 50 horses involved in the races have been killed in the past 26 years.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/07/12/calgary-chuckwagon-crash.html

Really?

"The outriding horse is an 18-year-old horse, I've had him for 13 years. He's part of our family.."

"They're just like humans, they're our family,"

Oh Yeah? Lots of good that did the horses.... Now that they're DEAD!

How about you just race your kids instead next year then?

“It always shocks and infuriates me … you’d think after 100 years they’d come to realize they cannot prevent deaths,” said Michael Alvarez-Toye of the Calgary Animal Rights Coalition.

No kidding! Hello?

Albert Einstein: 'Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.'



Enough already FFS! I mean, horses die EVERY single year in that race. Not sure what could be any more convincing than that. It's just beyond stupid now.
http://www.vancouverhumanesociety.bc.ca/campaigns/the-calgary-stampede/

 

[luvsdaty]

Such a waste, poor horses don't get a choice in the matter.

 

[skiguru]

This is unfortunate and I hate to see any animal die this way, however I always wonder why our society insists on treating animals as though they're humans. We do it with our dogs, cats, birds, horses, and any number of other species.

I have riding horses for the simple pleasure of riding. This is what they're bred for and this is what I use them for. What makes this so much different than those in the chuckwagon races who are bred for running? My horse walks, trots, and runs too. He even swims. The faster he goes, the riskier it becomes - for both of us. Are you suggesting that it's inhumane for me to park my fat ass on top of him and "force" him to gallop to the lake for a swim?

Perhaps I should saddle up one of the kids and go for a ride while the horse watches from the pasture next time?

I also have a dog. He's a high-energy breed and loves to run. He doesn't just run after a ball or stick, he sprints - for an hour at a time if I let him. Is "forcing" him to run full speed for an hour at a time inhumane?

Perhaps I should get one of the kids to fetch the ball while I restrain the dog next time.

Better yet, I can "ask" the horse or the dog if they're up to it first.

Why would you buy any animal and not use it for what it was bred for? It's like kissing your sister - pointless.

 

[luvsdaty]

This is unfortunate and I hate to see any animal die this way, however I always wonder why our society insists on treating animals as though they're humans. We do it with our dogs, cats, birds, horses, and any number of other species.

I have riding horses for the simple pleasure of riding. This is what they're bred for and this is what I use them for. What makes this so much different than those in the chuckwagon races who are bred for running? My horse walks, trots, and runs too. He even swims. The faster he goes, the riskier it becomes - for both of us. Are you suggesting that it's inhumane for me to park my fat ass on top of him and "force" him to gallop to the lake for a swim?

Perhaps I should saddle up one of the kids and go for a ride while the horse watches from the pasture next time?

I also have a dog. He's a high-energy breed and loves to run. He doesn't just run after a ball or stick, he sprints - for an hour at a time if I let him. Is "forcing" him to run full speed for an hour at a time inhumane?

Perhaps I should get one of the kids to fetch the ball while I restrain the dog next time.

Better yet, I can "ask" the horse or the dog if they're up to it first.

Why would you buy any animal and not use it for what it was bred for? It's like kissing your sister - pointless.

It's one thing to ride a horse,it's another to attach it to a chuck wagon & race it amongst dozens of other horses purely for our entertainment? "Breed" is a correct word too, we did the breeding, just as we breed dogs to fight. Just because we breed animals to have certain characteristics doesn't make it right imo.

 

[skiguru]

Such a waste, poor horses don't get a choice in the matter.

You're partially right here. I have several horses, some are lazy and drag their feet while others love to run. Given the choice, they will do what they prefer. It's pretty hard to get a lazy horse to run like his ass is on fire. An animal that loves to run is an entirely different story - no encouragement needed. The chuckwagon horses aren't the lazy ones being "forced" into it. These horses love to run and are good at it. The lazy horses are the ones your kids ride at the petting zoo.

 

[sevenofnine]

i guess living on the farm on and off for times in my life i have a certain perspective


animals have a purpose, are you guys that don't like chuck wagon racing vegins.
or do you enjoy a good burger or steak or maybe some salmon.

and i guess living on the farm an animal costs you money or makes you money
just recently we had a horse that was just loco, he couldn't be rode, and he was dangerous, he would kick and bite you if he got the chance,
he ended up in dog food. a two year old horse dog food because he cost money and was useless.

we have horses and some one close in the family competes and i help how ever i can when ever i can.

the horse loves to compete. it gets all wound up and full of anticipation its hard to control with all the nervous energy then she just explodes with a burst of energy, the horse loves to do what it does.

ian miller and big ben you should have heard him talk about ben just loving to jump and in practice would refuse to go back to the barn until all the jumps were done.

in the hearld today or yesterday a girl from nanton alberta running in barrels talked about her favorite horse martha just loves to run barrels.
its wrong to think these horses don't enjoy doing what there doing. and if you have spent any time around horses you would know the top horses love to compete and do what they do just as much as there owners do.

and there breed and owned for that purpose if it wasn't for that they most likely wouldn't even be alive in the first place how many wild horses are there any way have or has any one seen a wild horse, i have not. so do you want horses just to be in a zoo somewhere, or maybe your lucky you will see one in the wild if your lucky.

a lady i know breeds big large draft horses and guess where they end up, horse meat is a delicacy in japan

 

[luvsdaty]

Cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, salmon, etc don't get a choice about being raised in confinement for our dining enjoyment. I'm guessing they would chose the life of a race horse over theirs.

Yes, I understand there is a disjoint comparing animals used for food and those used for entertainment. However, I always find it interesting how so many people protest the death of beautiful animals, yet turn a blind eye to the treatment of ugly ones.

Just so you are aware, I'm not insinuating that's the case with you Miss B, but this thread lent itself to my expression.

I eat meat, mostly stuff I've hunted or caught fishing,Some people even eat horse.I have a lot of respect for everything i take out of nature & i'm grateful to be able to be able to do these things.
Most folks don't get that luxury,so they have to buy farmed animals & gmo vegetables.but i guess that's the price we pay for losing touch with our hunter gatherer nature?
As i said previously, i don't find anything wrong with riding horses but i find it needless to hitch them to a chuck wagon a run them for our entertainment.

 

[Horse99]

just another reason why I haven't ventured to Cowtown for the annual killfest.....also,beware of French restaurants featuring 'chevelle' on the menu.

 

[skiguru]

I had someone a while back make a formal complaint that my horses weren't being looked after because they were in a fenced area with bare dirt and they had no access to the pasture or the hay outside the pen. They also felt that they were malnourished because you could make the lines between their ribs. They guy that came to take the pictures just laughed and said "we get this all the time, people who know nothing about horses think they're helping the animals, when instead they should be going to the library first and reading a book".

If they had stopped in and actually asked me some sincere questions, they would've found out that they get fed twice a day and are let out to pasture for an hour or two a day, but only when the pasture is ready. In the interior, if you let them on the pasture before it's ready, they'll ruin it. Also, if you can't feel a horse's ribs, it's because he's fat - this isn't healthy either. Horses are natural grazers and that's exactly what they'll do all day long if you let them. All your good feed and pasture just gets turned into horse shit. For proof of this, just go find a place where the lazy owners feed their horses by putting a big round bale of hay out for them to eat at will. You'll see the bale of hay and then about ten feet out there'll be a big ring of horse shit; all day long the hay'll go into the horses mouth and travel about ten feet until he shits it out, like a living fertilizer machine.

Most horse owners are proud of their animals and would jump at the chance to introduce a stranger to their animals and help educate those with a sincere interest.

On the subject of the chuckwagon accident, I was watching that particular race when it happened and it looked to me like the one lead horse had his back right leg cramp up on him and he just "tipped over" to put it simply. He didn't trip, get tangled up in his gear, or get caught up with another chuckwagon. It really is a tragedy. These animals are like athletes at the top of their game and are treated that way by their owners and trainers - they're looked after better than some people's kids, which is also a shame. The owners and trainers that work with these animals know them better than you could ever imagine and if an animal appears or is acting "off", the last thing they will do is risk the health of the horse further by running them hard.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I'll get off my high horse now and get back to work. Ha, ha!

 

[Miss*Bijou]

As i said previously, i don't find anything wrong with riding horses but i find it needless to hitch them to a chuck wagon a run them for our entertainment.

Yup, that is exactly the point here. Nothing extreme at all. Seems like decent, pretty basic common sense.

Should I start paying tribute to all the men and women who have lost their lives for your entertainment?

Are you purposely making an insipid argument or is that unintentional?

You've already made it clear you enthusiastically support the use and abuse of horses in the name of entertainment and greed - so no big surprise there. But if you insist on sharing your position again, maybe you could come up with something a little more clever.

Or if you can't think of anything, you could also just not say anything at all.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

i would say the main problem with the accidents is that the chuckwagon races are being run on a relatively narrow track. if they were run on an open field, as no doubt they were at some time lost in history, there may or may not be crashes of individual wagons in any given year, but the crash would occur in isolation from the other teams. in addition, the stress factor of overtaking teams on an oval track would be removed from the race

a more boring race? yes, but a whole lot safer for the teams

how do you seat 25,000 people for a race like that? dunno... you got me there

i guess the chuckwagon race would have to join the digital age and be broadcast on a huge screen... you could get riots though like in vancouver

 

[ihatemyskirt]

It's not cruelty to animals, these horses are serving their purpose and many are retired race horses who would otherwise be neglected in a field or worse made into dude string horses!! They live to run and know nothing else so they probably don't feel all that cheated and won't be posing for any spca posters. The chucks are a tradition that many kids grow up on and it would be a crime to omit it from the greatest outdoor show on earth or any other rodeo they are included in, though the numbers are decreasing fast. Many kids in small towns live for the rodeo and don't know shit about black opps and family guy and youtube. It's just a different life and stuff you think is inhumane is actually part of every day life for them and stuff we think is common practice isn't even in their vocabulary.

What a celebration!
A barbaric tradition to be proud of! :thumb: And the 2012 edition did not disappoint:

The spectators sure got their money's worth: 3 horses dead and one injured - all in one race. That's what I call entertainment. Knock 'em dead, Cowboys!

(Honestly though, they shouldn't hide the horses when they euthanize them - if people want to pay and support that shit, they should get their money's worth and watch the horses die too! Let them be entertained until the end, eh?! )








Really?








Oh Yeah? Lots of good that did the horses.... Now that they're DEAD!

How about you just race your kids instead next year then?








No kidding! Hello?

Albert Einstein: 'Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.'



Enough already FFS! I mean, horses die EVERY single year in that race. Not sure what could be any more convincing than that. It's just beyond stupid now.
http://www.vancouverhumanesociety.bc.ca/campaigns/the-calgary-stampede/

 

[Elmore]

It's not cruelty to animals, these horses are serving their purpose and many are retired race horses who would otherwise be neglected in a field or worse made into dude string horses!! They live to run and know nothing else so they probably don't feel all that cheated and won't be posing for any spca posters. The chucks are a tradition that many kids grow up on and it would be a crime to omit it from the greatest outdoor show on earth or any other rodeo they are included in, though the numbers are decreasing fast. Many kids in small towns live for the rodeo and don't know shit about black opps and family guy and youtube. It's just a different life and stuff you think is inhumane is actually part of every day life for them and stuff we think is common practice isn't even in their vocabulary.

The gladiator arena was every day life entertainment for the Romans centuries ago. Use your noggin...tradition does not make something right.

 

[ihatemyskirt]

Why is it wrong?
Just sounds like another thing for activists to centre around.
Lets steer our energy towards funding womens shelters and elderly homeless solutions. They are human.

The gladiator arena was every day life entertainment for the Romans centuries ago. Use your noggin...tradition does not make something right.

 

[Dark_Knight]

Yup, that is exactly the point here. Nothing extreme at all. Seems like decent, pretty basic common sense.





Are you purposely making an insipid argument or is that unintentional?

You've already made it clear you enthusiastically support the use and abuse of horses in the name of entertainment and greed - so no big surprise there. But if you insist on sharing your position again, maybe you could come up with something a little more clever.

Or if you can't think of anything, you could also just not say anything at all.

yet you neglect to respond to anyone that does make a valid counter point...

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Amen to that. It's funny how the horse owners rarely take up the pulpit on these matters because they understand, yet the bystanders like to preach and preach about it.

Nonsense. Most horse advocates are horse owners. What the hell are you talking about. Change "horse owners" to "horse users/abusers", maybe. But the loudest complaints come from compassionate horse owners. Even if apparently not from any of the ones you know.

The chucks are a tradition that many kids grow up on and it would be a crime to omit it from the greatest outdoor show on earth or any other rodeo they are included in, though the numbers are decreasing fast. Many kids in small towns live for the rodeo and don't know shit about black opps and family guy and youtube. .

Please. You've got to be kidding me.

I and millions of other people did not get to experience the excitement of horse deaths for the sake of some invented event and guess what? I have lots of great memories that don't involve horses breaking down and having to be euthanized just so I could be entertained. It's really amazing but I actually don't feel like I was cheated at all. Go figure.

And small town kids have the internet like any other kid, you know. (And toilets and electricity too!)


I suppose you're going to claim it would be a crime to stop abusing animals as part of stupid circus or acts and marine shows too? Because it's a tradition and some people still think it's fun?

Gladiator shows were great entertainment for a long time and I'm sure many people thought of these shows as a tradition.
Bull fighting were and are still considered entertainment by heartless people and they fight against change because....yes, you guessed it - because of tradition.
Cock fighting, dog fighting ("that's what the dogs/cocks are bred for - they love it!!!")...? Both traditions.

And all barbaric and despicable. The fact that it's entertaining or part of a tradition to some doesn't magically make it right.

retired race horses who would otherwise be neglected in a field or worse made into dude string horses!!

And that makes it okay?

Crazy idea: we wouldn't have that problem at all to begin with if people weren't so greedy and over breeding horses, hoping to get lucky and produce a fast one (for god knows how many slow ones who end up dumped for their meat).

It's people who over breed or neglect their horses who are responsible - not the horses. If both (over breeding and neglect) were eliminated, it couldn't be passed off as justification.

They live to run and know nothing else so they probably don't feel all that cheated and won't be posing for any spca posters.

They've shared this with you personally? Before or after they were dead?

I'm sorry but that's only an assumption you're making and it conveniently offers a justification for the outcome you prefer. No more than that.

It's just a different life and stuff you think is inhumane is actually part of every day life for them and stuff we think is common practice isn't even in their vocabulary.

So the fact that it's part of every day life or common practice just makes it humane? How convenient...

There are a million things that can provide entertainment, become part of a tradition that don't involve achieving this at the expense of other animals. If some people have limited vocabularies, there's a real simple way to handle that: they can get a dictionary, read a few books and expand their vocabulary. That's just not an acceptable reason.

Exotic animals used for entertainment, such as elephants, tigers, and dolphins, are taken from their respective habitats and may be starved, beaten or otherwise maltreated to become submissive to a trainer. Many of these animals are continually maltreated throughout their performance years in an effort to make them behave accordingly. Most of the training occurs privately, making it easy for many to deny that cruelty to animals exists in the entertainment field. However, if one looks closely during the circus, for example, it is apparent how these animals are treated - performers threaten tigers with a whip and often hit elephants with metal rung on their legs.

Historic Roots
It appears as though animals were used for entertainment purposes since ancient times. Archeological findings in Macedonia that date back to 2,000 B.C.E. (Library Index) reveal that lions were kept in cages for the benefit of humans. The Circus Maximus in Rome began in 2 B.C.E. and is one of the most well-known entertainment venues in history. Chariot races, which involved horses, were the most popular and often resulted in death to both human and horses. Another popular event involved lions and human gladiators fighting to the death. The stadium always reached its capacity of 270,000 spectators. Circuses today are just as popular. While they no longer include fights to the death, the inherent act of animals performing against their will and living in atypical conditions suggests cruelty.

Dog fighting is assumed to have existed since the domestication of the species. (Wikipedia). Some dogs were bred and continue to be bred for this purpose. Dog fighting is often associated with the English, who reveled in this blood sport for hundreds of years. However, most cultures have practiced dog fighting throughout history. During the 12th century, dog fighting was very popular in Japan. This was a peaceful time in Japan’s history and dog fighting was encouraged to retain some aggression (Wikipedia). Today, dog fighting occurs in most countries, even with laws against the practice.

Cockfighting, while not as popular as dog fighting, is still prevalent around the world. Cockfighting is considered to have cultural significance in many parts of the world and in Mexico, a famous concert hall is host to many fights. The history of cockfighting is recorded in ancient literature of the Tamil Nadu region of India, dating back 2,000 years (Wikipedia).

Bull fighting is a legal blood sport in Spain, Portugal and Latin America and is enormously popular. Like dog fighting and cockfighting, bull fighting has strong historical significance. Killing a bull was considered part of a sacred ritual in Roman times. (Wikipedia)There is some opposition to bull fighting but the sport continues to be a popular attraction.

The rodeo originated in Spain and Mexico in the sixteenth century yet it is often thought to be of American origin. Texas and Wyoming consider the rodeo their state sport yet it is widely practiced in many US states. While the rodeo is not a blood sport, there are numerous practices that inflict pain to the animals, including metal and electric cattle prods, tail twisting and calf roping (Wikipedia).

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Insipid? Are you making light of the fact that people ALSO lose their lives for your fun and entertainment? I pointed out a real fact, one that is conveniently overlooked by some people in the interest of their own blind beliefs. I've lost more jockey friends than I have horses to this sport, think about that a little bit.

Yes, insipid.

Your friends made that decision.

Horses don't.

There is just no comparison whatsoever.

And no, they don't lose their lives for my entertainment because I have no interest in any of it. But regardless, people know the risks, they reap the benefits and they make these choices for themselves. They are 100% consenting and responsible for their lives.

Horses don't and never will so there is no comparison.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Did you just quote wiki as a reliable source? For all we know you went in and edited that page to suit your needs lol.

Also your blathering about these advocates being horse owners? Maybe 50% are, and I guarantee that I could go look at their horses and find many things wrong with their diet/soundess that they don't even realize are wrong, because they're not KNOWLEDGEABLE. Say it with me now. KNOWLEDGEABLE.

You know where I learned all these things (well not all, but most)...I learned them at the racetrack (GASP!) because racehorses are cared for better than any riding horse I've ever seen. Ever.

hmmm. Let's see...


Option 1: wikipedia, which includes numerous citations and sources, is reviewed and edited to limit bias and inaccuracies. Neutral, mostly objective and informative, based on facts, science, experience, consensus and evidence. Not perfect but respected source of information.


Option 2: Miss Melody, personal bias and personal gain from animal use for entertainment, snarky, no attempt whatsoever to appear objective, no citations, no facts, no evidence - self appointed expert.


Wow. Tough call. Guess which one I'll go with. I'll give you a hint: Not you.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

I'm gonna say one final thing and then I'm done. Even I won't flog a dead horse.

Have you, personally, ever tried and succeeded in making a horse do something it really didn't want to do? I mean, logistically, they're at least 3 times your size, right? So if it really didn't want to do it, there's no physical way you can make it.

Do you think dog fighters, themselves, physically make their dogs fight to death?

Do you think bears, lions, tigers and elephants in circuses are forced physically to perform their acts? Not while you're watching but their "training" involves nothing more than physical and mental abuse and fear. They seem to perform voluntarily and it's tempting to believe that no one can physically force an elephant to do anything it doesn't want to do, right? Fear can.

If there's no physical abuse (because I know horses and dogs are domesticated, more willing to do things they think will please us, unlike elephants and bears), there is a lot these animals will do out of either trust, desire to please, whatever. But if humans didn't set up these events, do you think horses would spontaneously get together in the barn or pasture, plan and set up dangerous races (or neighborhood dogs set up vicious, violent fights against members of their pack) for the sake of a crowds entertainment or a human's profit - just for the heck of it? Because they're just unable to think of doing anything else with themselves or their time and really, they just live for it?

I don't think so.

Those are some nice, reassuring stories people tell themselves. It's only convincing when it's what you want to believe and it conveniently justifies and allows you to keep enjoying without any guilt. Sorry to burst your bubble but there really isn't much more to it than that.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

yet you neglect to respond to anyone that does make a valid counter point...

I thought I had basically responded to all counter points? Which one did I miss?

a bottom feeding asshole i know breeds big large draft horses and guess where they end up, horse meat is a delicacy in japan

fixed that for ya.

Why is it wrong?

Are you referring to gladiator events or chuckwagonwhatever horse races?