Freeloaders
- Thread starter niteowl
- Start date
Bijou and dood have got it right. Saying that we should send people back to situations where they may be killed or tortured until we have the chance to examine their claim for validity is ridiculous. As to the OP I believe it was Ben Franklin (though I'm not sure) who said the only problem with immigration was that he wished the people who arrived a month ago hated the people who arrived a week ago a lot less.
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PhoneGirl
Lol - what do you think half the asian girls that flood craigslist are doing here? You think they came here the safe and honest way? 
"Peace Guy": Ethnic profiling prevents law enforcement officials from singling out any particular group for specific type of crimes or for criminal activity in general. Nonetheless, specific kinds of crimes for specific groups exists. The legacy of violence in the Vietnamese civil war was not over after the war. Those who escaped had to spend many months, sometimes years, in transit camps. It was a harrowing experience and it affected the young people significantly. The violence amongst Vietnamese refugees in Canada has been disproportionately high. Phillipinos, on the other hand, those who immigrate, have been largely untouched by violence in their homeland; furthermore, they haven't taken circuitous routes to get here. They have spread themselves throughout the international communities and have done it in a legal manner. In general, you never hear of violent or criminal activities on their part no matter where they reside.
As to the Tamil boat people, as noted, there is fear that many passengers and the seamen carrying them are (former) terrorists. There is also a concern that some of the women have been forced to board ship and to be subsequently used as chattels in the sex trade. In addition, now that the ports of Australia have been closed to the Tamils, there is fear that an overwhelming number will end up in Canada. Canadian laws are such that it takes years and years before an illicit person could be sent away. Our own laws and the speed with which they may be carried out are not sufficient.
As to the Tamil boat people, as noted, there is fear that many passengers and the seamen carrying them are (former) terrorists. There is also a concern that some of the women have been forced to board ship and to be subsequently used as chattels in the sex trade. In addition, now that the ports of Australia have been closed to the Tamils, there is fear that an overwhelming number will end up in Canada. Canadian laws are such that it takes years and years before an illicit person could be sent away. Our own laws and the speed with which they may be carried out are not sufficient.
Actually, "Peace Guy", there is sense in your "tongue firmly set in cheek ...". Some years ago a boatload of Chinese sailed into BC with many young Chinese women onboard. All of the "refugee" claimants were set free on bail. That was the last that was heard of them. According to my sources, the young women ended up in brothels in the USA. They were saleable items. Do you think our liberal laws were of any benefit?
As to prisons, since you brought up the subject, after the first worldwar, when the USSR was in shambles, the Makarenko Method was developed for wayward youth. The adolescents were sent to rehabilitation homes where they would reside, be educated and work. The intent was to teach the young people to be contributors to the greater society. These homes were not a place of punishment although there was no easy escape. I mention this because my own (former) experience as a professional within Canada's prison system suggests that educational opportunities for adults with a work for release system in which inmates pay for room and board (like the average citizen does) would work better, something like the Makarenko system. What do you think and why?
As to prisons, since you brought up the subject, after the first worldwar, when the USSR was in shambles, the Makarenko Method was developed for wayward youth. The adolescents were sent to rehabilitation homes where they would reside, be educated and work. The intent was to teach the young people to be contributors to the greater society. These homes were not a place of punishment although there was no easy escape. I mention this because my own (former) experience as a professional within Canada's prison system suggests that educational opportunities for adults with a work for release system in which inmates pay for room and board (like the average citizen does) would work better, something like the Makarenko system. What do you think and why?
Englebert: Post WWI Soviet Union became increasingly dictatorial as time went on under the aegis of Stalin once the reigns of power were firmly in his hands. The gulags were not established immediately. As to the youth homes (Makarenko), this was one of the inspired activites of post WWI Soviet and it appears to have worked well given the context of those times in Russia. Some ways of functioning, such as the Kibbutzim in Israel, play an important and creative role in a specific context for a limited amount of time and then become outdated. At any rate, do you think a Makarenko system here in Canada could be of useful social benefit? Do you think adult prison farms would be useful in terms of allowing inmates to work in return for room and board, not as a punishment but as an essential tool for socializing? Just wondering what your thoughts are on the subject.
If those homes were not a place of punishment... then what were they? That's kind of interesting because I doubt anyone being held in a place from which "there is no easy escape" would see it as anything else but a place of punishment. Kind of like if I took your freedom away and told you it was just like a vacation. I don't think that's how you would feel.
Oakalla Prison Farm in Burnaby provided work and training for inmates. It had a prize winning dairy herd, a team of prize winning Clydesdales and grew enough food to feed most of the Provincial system. Also produced all the inmate clothing and footwear, except sneakers as well as licence plates. The place actually made money and the inmates learned something positive. Then the civil liberties people and the unions got involved and the place is now a housing development and the system is a drag on the budget.
Yes, putting them to work can work successfully as long as special interest groups don't get involved.
that's why the rcmp are so fucked up now - they don't train with horses any more
me and thee, brother - me and thee...
the homeless don't keep the immigration and refugee lawyers and beaurocrats busy, so there's no support for dealing with them. i heard on the news that some of those tamils paid over 50 g-boys per to get on that ship! that kinda dough times 490 can line more than a few pockets. but home-grown homeless are just a pain in the ass to the establishment.
the same news release said that the conservatives are soon going to be introducing legislation to close some of the loop-holes for refugees. it quoted the federal minister for immigration as saying that, 'anybody entering canada's borders without proper paperwork is committing an illegal act and anybody transporting individuals into canadian territory is committing an illegal act.' so don't listen to the bullshitters on here - these are illegal immigrants. that is why they are being put in jails. in canada we can't put people in jails unless they have done something illegal
now if they wish to declare themselves refugees during their processing, that is a special category that is neither legal nor illegal until it gets sorted out.
note that the categories immigrant and refugee are NOT the same thing and care should be taken not to confuse them
Actually, refugees are a classification of immigrant, along with economic class and family class - there is also a classification for special status immigrants (usually on humanitarian grounds).
