I am definately not a stickler for clock watching, but why is it, that some gentlemen are under the assumption that lunch or dinner is free time on our clocks? I recently had a Regina client expecting to meet me for lunch, but with no after lunch playtime, call me and just assuming I would be available to him without my "allowance" for my time with him,...hmmm,.....any thoughts?
Free Lunch?
- Thread starter Miss January
- Start date
There's No Free Lunch
I'm assuming that the guy who's rubbed you the wrong way paid for your lunch and didn't expect anything from you for this gesture (other than to visit with you)?... if so, enjoy and quit being so business-like... you've got to eat don't you... as long as it wasn't McD's and he didn't want any more of your time than would customarily be consumed over a normal lunch, eat, drink and be merry... those are my thoughts.
As an afterthought, is it possible that this cat sees something in you other than the tail that you can offer him?... perhaps he considers you a person and likes you???... hmmmm, novel thought, eh?
Miss January (AKA Sharla), there is no free lunch... you know that...
I'm assuming that the guy who's rubbed you the wrong way paid for your lunch and didn't expect anything from you for this gesture (other than to visit with you)?... if so, enjoy and quit being so business-like... you've got to eat don't you... as long as it wasn't McD's and he didn't want any more of your time than would customarily be consumed over a normal lunch, eat, drink and be merry... those are my thoughts.
As an afterthought, is it possible that this cat sees something in you other than the tail that you can offer him?... perhaps he considers you a person and likes you???... hmmmm, novel thought, eh?
Sharla doll, if we hooked up I would totally skip buying you lunch or dinner as that would just be wasting time as you would be my dinner
That's a legitimate perspective, but here's the other side of the coin. Assuming he doesn't have a prior friendship with said person, would he arbitrarily phone his physician and expect her/him to join him for lunch? his lawyer? his accountant? his mailperson? his dentist? his plumber?
It's ok to say that lunch would be for "pleasure, not business". But that being said, I'm sure he wouldn't mind if the SP, out of kindness and interest "in a person", invited the man's wife/girlfriend to join them for lunch as well, yes?
In the end, I think it's up to the discretion of the SP if she chooses to join a client for a friendly outing (I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it), but the client should be understanding if the SP chooses to keep meetings on a "business" level.
I'm not arguing with Racoon, just presenting an opposing perspective. I don't want to turn this into yet another feuding thread.
It's ok to say that lunch would be for "pleasure, not business". But that being said, I'm sure he wouldn't mind if the SP, out of kindness and interest "in a person", invited the man's wife/girlfriend to join them for lunch as well, yes?
In the end, I think it's up to the discretion of the SP if she chooses to join a client for a friendly outing (I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it), but the client should be understanding if the SP chooses to keep meetings on a "business" level.
I'm not arguing with Racoon, just presenting an opposing perspective. I don't want to turn this into yet another feuding thread.
Miss January (AKA Sharla), there is no free lunch... you know that...
I'm assuming that the guy who's rubbed you the wrong way paid for your lunch and didn't expect anything from you for this gesture (other than to visit with you)?... if so, enjoy and quit being so business-like... you've got to eat don't you... as long as it wasn't McD's and he didn't want any more of your time than would customarily be consumed over a normal lunch, eat, drink and be merry... those are my thoughts.
As an afterthought, is it possible that this cat sees something in you other than the tail that you can offer him?... perhaps he considers you a person and likes you???... hmmmm, novel thought, eh?
I am not saying that I would not enjoy a lovely lunch out with a gentleman, but my time should be worthy of my company time. I can feed myself,...alone,...take out, delivery,,...etc,.....
I would appreciate gentlemen who see me, to recognize my time ( as most men do)as billable time. He, (after 2 years) has not made much contact, but regardless, when a call is made to get together, he should be honestly fair, in all respects, to care for me over & above our intimacy, and be worthy of our time together,.... and show it.
Just my two cents worth,.....have a great day,....end of my bitchin' session!
I would appreciate gentlemen who see me, to recognize my time ( as most men do)as billable time. He, (after 2 years) has not made much contact, but regardless, when a call is made to get together, he should be honestly fair, in all respects, to care for me over & above our intimacy, and be worthy of our time together,.... and show it.
Just my two cents worth,.....have a great day,....end of my bitchin' session!
I think one of the biggest problems is that there are many pooners out there that truely believe that curtain sp's really like them, and care for them. The bottom line is this is a business. Sp's do what they do because they love the money, not because they love there customers.
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If you are not in continual contact with a gentleman for over a year, do you believe that it is the sp's resposibility to remind a client that she has no feelings for him, other than monetary value? I truly enjoy every experience that walks through my door,..but a lunch date is so-be-it, much the same,....is still a consentual meeting/understanding of services rendered.
Like I said, it's a business. If there was no money for services render, the experience mite not be so enjoyable. If an sp states clearly that every minute of her time is worth something to her, then so be it. I have never paid for a lunch date, however I have paid for the lunch, but never the womens time. Now if something happened after the lunch, I would be more then willing to pay.
good lessons show up in the strangest places...
this is an interesting coincidence...i found myself in a very similar situation recently...however services were rendered...but because the gentleman and i never clearly discussed consultation fees prior to the encounter i found myself learning a valuable lesson...the gentleman made the assumption that because i had suggested we meet at an alternate location to our usual rendezvous spot, i was interested in a "playdate" that was off the clock - so to speak...i think this was completely my fault as i was not clear in my communication...so, after a wonderful romp, the gentleman bid me adieu without even a thought about "billable hours"...and i smiled and realized that unless i make my expectations known, i have no right to expect anything...
so, terrell...i have to agree with your perspective on this one...miss january, i guess this is what is meant by every cloud has a silver lining...bet you won't find yourself in that situation again...
this is an interesting coincidence...i found myself in a very similar situation recently...however services were rendered...but because the gentleman and i never clearly discussed consultation fees prior to the encounter i found myself learning a valuable lesson...the gentleman made the assumption that because i had suggested we meet at an alternate location to our usual rendezvous spot, i was interested in a "playdate" that was off the clock - so to speak...i think this was completely my fault as i was not clear in my communication...so, after a wonderful romp, the gentleman bid me adieu without even a thought about "billable hours"...and i smiled and realized that unless i make my expectations known, i have no right to expect anything...
so, terrell...i have to agree with your perspective on this one...miss january, i guess this is what is meant by every cloud has a silver lining...bet you won't find yourself in that situation again...
"Doing" your bussiness
if you want to treat it as a "business" then you should consider "Billable and Non-Billable" time. All businesses have to have a certain non-billable time, like PR, HR, Marketing, Accounting and R&D.
i think it's just good business sense to spend a lunch or dinner with a client and just treat it as your PR and Marketing, non-billable time of your business. if the lunch time is taking away on your billable time, then dont. but if you're open then go have a good time.
if you want to treat it as a "business" then you should consider "Billable and Non-Billable" time. All businesses have to have a certain non-billable time, like PR, HR, Marketing, Accounting and R&D.
i think it's just good business sense to spend a lunch or dinner with a client and just treat it as your PR and Marketing, non-billable time of your business. if the lunch time is taking away on your billable time, then dont. but if you're open then go have a good time.
What a fascinating thread! I've often wondered about the role (financial and otherwise) of pre- and post-sex time spent with SPs. Personally, any session with an SP would involve sex. If I was meeting her for lunch or dinner, without the foreknowledge or even the expectation of sex, then that may (and I underline MAY) mean that our relationship had progressed to a different level. Not all SPs are comfortable with this or receptive to it.
What is really being discussed here is what constitutes billable time. This is an issue for many professionals and others who deal with clients as part of their occupation. On one of the spectrum, it can be argued that every minute with a client is billable and that there should be strict rules, either implicit or explicit, as to what venues are appropriate for client-provider interaction. On the other hand, it can be equally argued that any "free" time spent with a client is an investment in future paid earnings. The comparison with phyisicians is obviously invalid but lawyers and other businesspeople "do lunch" all the time.
I've never been an SP (unfortunately), but if I were I would accept meals or other social invites and bill only for sex-time. I tend not to see SPs who, either on their websites or other initial communications, make a point of explicitly reminding me about how important their time is or posting ridiculous charges for small physical extras or incremental add-on times of 15 minutes. The whole impression just screams "clock-watcher." It's pretty clear, though, that Sharla is not a clock-watcher and that she makes a valid point with respect to this one particular client.
There is a limit to the number of clients an SP can see in a given day. In the same way that some physicians (or anyone else whose gross income varies proportionally with the number of client visits per day) run their clinics from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. each day and schedule 100 patients into triple-booked sessions, SPs who view each minute of the day as potential fuck-time lost if they aren't fucking will eventually burn out and provide poor-quality service.
Again, if it were Vroomfondel the super-SP, I'd take the time to enjoy a nice meal or any other "date" activity with a client whose company I truly enjoyed. That being said, lunch time is prime sex-time for SPs who work during the day so I can agree with Sharla that it is inconsiderate to "waste" her time if no sex occurs afterwards.
Cheers,
VF
What is really being discussed here is what constitutes billable time. This is an issue for many professionals and others who deal with clients as part of their occupation. On one of the spectrum, it can be argued that every minute with a client is billable and that there should be strict rules, either implicit or explicit, as to what venues are appropriate for client-provider interaction. On the other hand, it can be equally argued that any "free" time spent with a client is an investment in future paid earnings. The comparison with phyisicians is obviously invalid but lawyers and other businesspeople "do lunch" all the time.
I've never been an SP (unfortunately), but if I were I would accept meals or other social invites and bill only for sex-time. I tend not to see SPs who, either on their websites or other initial communications, make a point of explicitly reminding me about how important their time is or posting ridiculous charges for small physical extras or incremental add-on times of 15 minutes. The whole impression just screams "clock-watcher." It's pretty clear, though, that Sharla is not a clock-watcher and that she makes a valid point with respect to this one particular client.
There is a limit to the number of clients an SP can see in a given day. In the same way that some physicians (or anyone else whose gross income varies proportionally with the number of client visits per day) run their clinics from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. each day and schedule 100 patients into triple-booked sessions, SPs who view each minute of the day as potential fuck-time lost if they aren't fucking will eventually burn out and provide poor-quality service.
Again, if it were Vroomfondel the super-SP, I'd take the time to enjoy a nice meal or any other "date" activity with a client whose company I truly enjoyed. That being said, lunch time is prime sex-time for SPs who work during the day so I can agree with Sharla that it is inconsiderate to "waste" her time if no sex occurs afterwards.
Cheers,
VF
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wow...more excellent points!
this is awesome...i love hearing what you all have to say...and these are not only valid but excellent points with sound business acumen...sharla, (i hope you don't mind me calling you sharla) you obviously have a devout following - i like to see that as it means that you are a business woman with sound values and ethics...something very important to me...
this thread has really made me think about how i would conduct myself in the same situation - while the lunch time clients are certainly important for those sp's who serve that demographic, i also like the concept of using lunches, coffee, drinks, dinner, etc. as a so called "pr expense"...personally, i see it as an opportunity to maintain a well established relationship or develop a new one...
my faux pas was much different, i see now, in that i initiated the session without giving thought to the financial end of things...don't get me wrong, i had a fabulous time as much as the gentleman in question assumed i was not billing for time, i assumed i was - so clearly a lack of proper communication was the issue for me...my lack of communication...oh well...so one less or two less pairs of shoes...lol ...however...billable hours will now be very clear for any appointments i make that are to be billed...
vf...once again, you have eloquently stated how abhorrent the "nickle and diming" practice is in this industry (in my humble yet adamant opinion)...i hope that any sp's following this thread take heed as it can only benefit them with greater long term loyalty from their clients
this is awesome...i love hearing what you all have to say...and these are not only valid but excellent points with sound business acumen...sharla, (i hope you don't mind me calling you sharla) you obviously have a devout following - i like to see that as it means that you are a business woman with sound values and ethics...something very important to me...
this thread has really made me think about how i would conduct myself in the same situation - while the lunch time clients are certainly important for those sp's who serve that demographic, i also like the concept of using lunches, coffee, drinks, dinner, etc. as a so called "pr expense"...personally, i see it as an opportunity to maintain a well established relationship or develop a new one...
my faux pas was much different, i see now, in that i initiated the session without giving thought to the financial end of things...don't get me wrong, i had a fabulous time
as much as the gentleman in question assumed i was not billing for time, i assumed i was - so clearly a lack of proper communication was the issue for me...my lack of communication...oh well...so one less or two less pairs of shoes...lol ...however...billable hours will now be very clear for any appointments i make that are to be billed...vf...once again, you have eloquently stated how abhorrent the "nickle and diming" practice is in this industry (in my humble yet adamant opinion)...i hope that any sp's following this thread take heed as it can only benefit them with greater long term loyalty from their clients
sounds positively yummy to me...although hold the fur - i'm watching my carbs
wonderful BI woman LOL
I think you are right to feel this way. This is another example of someone blurring that line between SP and client which is unfortuantely an occupational hazard. I'm sure his intentions were sincere and honorable, despite the lack of consideration for your time. If it was an honest misunderstanding I'm sure he would understand your perspective. If not, then he's not deserving of your company.
I've had it the other way with some SP's over the years. I try to remain very anonymous but I have on occasion, over the years, let a few SP's know what I do for a living. Then low and behold a few weeks or months later I've gotten a call from an SP asking my advice about a particular issue. On those occasions I've had no problem explaining to them that I'd love to help them out but they can make an appointment like anyone else and come to my office. Oh and by the way there is a fee for my services. One of them was pissed at me and wouldn't take my call after that while the others understood.
Remember, it's your time and there is nothing wrong with feeling that it is worth something. If the client values your time and services, they should have no problem paying for it.
If you have to ask if you're getting paid, don't do it.
I would sooner loose their business than be taken advantage of.
I refuse to see someone IRL. In my experience, they think they are 'special' or entitled to more of what you're not selling. Then, future visits become longer and longer without compensation and then it turns into a "WOT/ Brain drain / guilt trip" scenario. You become the bad person for throwing it back to business or worse, they guilt trip you for doing it.
SD
I would sooner loose their business than be taken advantage of.
I refuse to see someone IRL. In my experience, they think they are 'special' or entitled to more of what you're not selling. Then, future visits become longer and longer without compensation and then it turns into a "WOT/ Brain drain / guilt trip" scenario. You become the bad person for throwing it back to business or worse, they guilt trip you for doing it.
SD
Some ladies get around this problem by having a different (lower) rate for non-sexual services such as lunch/dinner dates, etc. The key is that they have to post this rate (if they have a web page) and make sure the client understands that even accompanying him on a purely social date is on the clock at that rate.
It can be a little awkward sometimes to discuss such things, but it's far less awkward to lay everything out clearly beforehand than it would be to have a financial misunderstanding afterward. I've never taken a local lady out (too close to home), but I have had several dinner/sex dates with two ladies in another city. However, all financial arrangements have been agreed on beforehand.
I've only ever had one financial misunderstanding with a lady (not a dinner date). I found it embarrassing, and so did she. It's far better to avoid misunderstandings than to try to fix them afterward.
It can be a little awkward sometimes to discuss such things, but it's far less awkward to lay everything out clearly beforehand than it would be to have a financial misunderstanding afterward. I've never taken a local lady out (too close to home), but I have had several dinner/sex dates with two ladies in another city. However, all financial arrangements have been agreed on beforehand.
I've only ever had one financial misunderstanding with a lady (not a dinner date). I found it embarrassing, and so did she. It's far better to avoid misunderstandings than to try to fix them afterward.
i sincerely agree avery...in the case i mentioned, i did not say anything at all seeing as i felt it was my error...however, i did smile happily as i realized what a valuable lesson i learned...
for the most part - all my financial dealings are done up front - usually prior to meeting for the first time...although the transaction itself...sometimes at the beginning sometimes at the end...it depends on the circumstances...the last thing i want is embarrasment for anyone...
as far as purely social escorting goes...i have had the pleasure of doing that for several out of town clients...it has given me the opportunity to attend a few black tie events, run into old friends, meet new people and inevitably make new business contacts...its always fun to get dressed up and go out as far as i'm concerned! my consultation fees for this service are usually about half however the time spent is greater...
i have come to the conclusion that those of us who never make mistakes are doomed never to learn - as you might have guessed, i'm a big advocate of lifelong learning
for the most part - all my financial dealings are done up front - usually prior to meeting for the first time...although the transaction itself...sometimes at the beginning sometimes at the end...it depends on the circumstances...the last thing i want is embarrasment for anyone...
as far as purely social escorting goes...i have had the pleasure of doing that for several out of town clients...it has given me the opportunity to attend a few black tie events, run into old friends, meet new people and inevitably make new business contacts...its always fun to get dressed up and go out as far as i'm concerned!
my consultation fees for this service are usually about half however the time spent is greater...i have come to the conclusion that those of us who never make mistakes are doomed never to learn - as you might have guessed, i'm a big advocate of lifelong learning
my thoughts...
Hmmm, well I see everyones point. Here is a recent example of what I do...
Lets say someone wants to take me out for dinner, and then back to their room for play time...
In my honest opinion, no one needs to pay me full rate if we're having a drink, dinner, or enjoying a show. If I didn't want to be there with them, I wouldn't be, and I would book it as a "playtime only" type of session and skip out on the wining and dining.
Instead of "non-billable" time, I just go by a half rate. So if your rate is $200/hr for example, I'd say to make it clear that outside of the bedroom a $100/hr rate is indeed necessary so there's no blurring of lines. Good point made a few posts up. You are not just any girl. You are an SP. Your company is what costs money, period. If we didn't keep it that way, we'd be taken out for free lunches all the time but we'd also be taken advantage of, so the line has got to be drawn to avoid problems and discrepancies.
Its one thing if this is a trusted, tried and true regular of yours, and thats something you're comfortable with to break up the monotony once in a while great, if that wasn't the prior understanding, shame on them. Do too many favors all the time and word will get around, then you'll always have dinner and you'll be screwed out of other appointments you could've made to pay the bills! LOL (As if there aren't enough of those.)
Aly
Its all about respect. PEACE XOXO
Hmmm, well I see everyones point. Here is a recent example of what I do...
Lets say someone wants to take me out for dinner, and then back to their room for play time...
In my honest opinion, no one needs to pay me full rate if we're having a drink, dinner, or enjoying a show. If I didn't want to be there with them, I wouldn't be, and I would book it as a "playtime only" type of session and skip out on the wining and dining.
Instead of "non-billable" time, I just go by a half rate. So if your rate is $200/hr for example, I'd say to make it clear that outside of the bedroom a $100/hr rate is indeed necessary so there's no blurring of lines. Good point made a few posts up. You are not just any girl. You are an SP. Your company is what costs money, period. If we didn't keep it that way, we'd be taken out for free lunches all the time but we'd also be taken advantage of, so the line has got to be drawn to avoid problems and discrepancies.
Its one thing if this is a trusted, tried and true regular of yours, and thats something you're comfortable with to break up the monotony once in a while great, if that wasn't the prior understanding, shame on them. Do too many favors all the time and word will get around, then you'll always have dinner and you'll be screwed out of other appointments you could've made to pay the bills! LOL (As if there aren't enough of those.)
Aly
Its all about respect. PEACE XOXO
