Ferguson Missouri

SFMIKE

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Jul 3, 2004
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Most of you seem to think that the shooter (cop) got away with murder. Sorry, that is hardly the end of story.

Maybe he will not stand trial for a criminal act, but his next big worry is facing a civil trial. The lawyers are already lining up on the Brown's doorstep.

The difference between a criminal trial and a civil trial; while a criminal trial requires the prosecution to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt", in a civil trial it only requires based upon "preponderance of evidence" to find him guilty.

Remember OJ? That's the ways it works in most states.
 

uncleg

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Jul 25, 2006
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87112

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*&^%
Such a shame, the National Guard was not called to defend business before the verdict was announced. If a city can riot over a Hockey game ____ anything can happen.
 

vancity_cowboy

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Jan 27, 2008
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on yer ignore list
And the looting and burning that has followed speaks of an underlying discontent and malaise. This isn't about the shooting of Michael Brown. This is about the alienation that is engulfing US society like a cancer, with the increasing income inequality and lack of opportunity all being part of that. I suspect there will be more incidences like this, leading up to a charismatic leader coming out to lead a revolution. Capitalism as we know it is not sustainable, particularly in the neo-liberal, greed-driven version we have been told we should accept.
You think..................

i think the revolution of which you speak has already begun

although the term revolution might be ascribing motives too lofty to the conflict at hand

on the one side there are afro-americans, whose jobs have been exported to china, saying, 'fuck you honkies, and especially fuck your jack-boot honky police forces,' and going out of their way to disregard direct orders. after the past few years' news stories, if i was an afro-american approached by white police or armed security forces, i would immediately drop to my knees with my hands in the air and i would follow their instructions to the letter, hoping to save my own life - but that's not what is happening. rebellion is what is happening

on the other side there are the entitled white american police forces, whose neighbours' jobs have also been exported to china, and whose opinions of afro-americans are drawn from watching the daily antics of professional afro-american athletes every time they score a goal. when presented with the 'rebellion' of yet another afro-american on the streets that form their beat, they simply pull the trigger

it's a revolution driven by alienation. i guess it's based on the era of slavery

perhaps it's tied to the islamic revolution that is sweeping the world, as some of the people who became american slaves came from african countries that were on the fringes of the muslim portion of north africa

perhaps it's tied to the perception of the failure of the american economy and military might

perhaps it's tied to the presence of an african american in the white house

but i'm sure it is definitely tied to the lack of opportunities due to the export of jobs

and i'm sure it's going to escalate
 
A

Alabama Blaze

I don't understand Darren Wilson's issue with carrying a taser. The models that have been released over the past few years are significantly lighter and more compact than previous generations.

This is situation that could have been handled with taser weapon. Granted Taser's have been known to kill some people. So we may still have been having this conversation.
 

Vitargo

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Feb 13, 2014
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<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/T7MAO7McNKE?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
................
 

westwoody

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Jun 10, 2004
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Westwood
Never thought Ted Nugent would say something worthwhile! Ninety nine percent of those "protesters" are just fucking idiot hooligans.

Who should we believe, a grand jury that sees hundreds of hours of testimony and evidence, or some illiterate thug on twitter?

Looking at all the destruction in photos being posted on imgur. What the fuck does burning down some BLACK person's corner store acheive? Hitting a reporter on the head with a rock, what does that prove except that the guy who throws rocks at a lady is a fucking asshole.

Then there's the protesters at the US Embassy in Ottawa asking non-blacks to stay away. Hypocrites eh! Demanding democracy and equality but exercising mob rule and excluding other races. .
 

Jethro Bodine

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Feb 17, 2009
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Looking at all the destruction in photos being posted on imgur. What the fuck does burning down some BLACK person's corner store acheive? Hitting a reporter on the head with a rock, what does that prove except that the guy who throws rocks at a lady is a fucking asshole.

Then there's the protesters at the US Embassy in Ottawa asking non-blacks to stay away. Hypocrites eh! Demanding democracy and equality but exercising mob rule and excluding other races. .
My thoughts exactly. While I have my opinions on this matter the thing that I just cannot believe is how, no matter how upset the protesters are, how is looting your neighbor's store helping? How is burning down your neighborhood helping? The problem is that now a days whenever there is any kind of protest, they bus in all kinds of people from outside who have no connection to the neighborhood. During the initial protests over 75% of those arrested had out of state addresses. Who the hell has the time to get on bus in Dallas and travel to Ferguson/St. Louis if you have a job and are trying to feed your family?
Its like several of the protests we've seen in Canada over the past few years. The thugs out there take it as an opportunity to go on crime spree.
Yesterday they interviewed a local black businesswoman who is a single mom. She was sobbing. The poor lady is just trying to eek out a living for her and her kids and these thugs loot and burn her business.
I'd like to know what Al Sharpton or all these useless celebrities would have to say to her.
 
Nov 29, 2009
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Never thought Ted Nugent would say something worthwhile! Ninety nine percent of those "protesters" are just fucking idiot hooligans.

Who should we believe, a grand jury that sees hundreds of hours of testimony and evidence, or some illiterate thug on twitter?

Looking at all the destruction in photos being posted on imgur. What the fuck does burning down some BLACK person's corner store acheive? Hitting a reporter on the head with a rock, what does that prove except that the guy who throws rocks at a lady is a fucking asshole.

Then there's the protesters at the US Embassy in Ottawa asking non-blacks to stay away. Hypocrites eh! Demanding democracy and equality but exercising mob rule and excluding other races. .
https://news.vice.com/article/the-great-pumpkin-riot-is-a-white-riot-worth-taking-seriously
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/riots-erupt-in-vancouver-after-canucks-loss-1.993707

We riot over some very serious shit as well
 
Nov 29, 2009
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The hockey rioters were assholes too.
And it is not a justification for the Ferguson riots
I'm not justifying it either; I'm just calling a spade a spade. You referred to the hockey rioters as assholes, not thugs, idiots, hooligans, illiterate, BLACK. Nobody is justifying Michael Brown's actions either, there is video suggesting that he strong-arm robbed a store prior to being killed, but I believe this pic illustrates why I believe people in the US are upset at the disproportionate use of force.



There is also another video on YouTube that shows Michael Brown paying for his cigars prior to getting into a dispute with the store clerk. At any rate, if you don't think these people are thugs, hooligans, illiterate idiots - for rioting over a stick and ball:



Then why characterize the people of Ferguson as such? Sure you can make the argument that Blacks kill each other all the time, but so do Whites, Indians, Chinese, Mexican, etc. The fact is, most homicides are intraracial which makes sense. If I said that 99% of Canadians were killed by other Canadians, or that 99% of Americans were killed by other Americans, that would make perfect sense in most people's minds. Now if I reversed that and said that 99% of Canadians (insert group A) were killed by Americans (insert group B), then there would be something horribly wrong with that statistics; it would probably mean that we are at war.
 

Devo

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I'm not justifying it either; I'm just calling a spade a spade. You referred to the hockey rioters as assholes, not thugs, idiots, hooligans, illiterate, BLACK. Nobody is justifying Michael Brown's actions either, there is video suggesting that he strong-arm robbed a store prior to being killed, but I believe this pic illustrates why I believe people in the US are upset at the disproportionate use of force.



There is also another video on YouTube that shows Michael Brown paying for his cigars prior to getting into a dispute with the store clerk. At any rate, if you don't think these people are thugs, hooligans, illiterate idiots - for rioting over a stick and ball:



Then why characterize the people of Ferguson as such? Sure you can make the argument that Blacks kill each other all the time, but so do Whites, Indians, Chinese, Mexican, etc. The fact is, most homicides are intraracial which makes sense. If I said that 99% of Canadians were killed by other Canadians, or that 99% of Americans were killed by other Americans, that would make perfect sense in most people's minds. Now if I reversed that and said that 99% of Canadians (insert group A) were killed by Americans (insert group B), then there would be something horribly wrong with that statistics; it would probably mean that we are at war.
Pay attention while I educate you. You cherry pick examples and scenarios that are completely unrelated to what happened in Ferguson. What exactly are you trying to convince us of anyway? A gang member-criminal attacked a police officer and got shot. There have been several nights of rioting and looting in Ferguson committed by an all Black demographic. The sports based riots that you use to make your weak point, lasted one night and consisted of a mixed crowd.
 

sevenofnine

Active member
Nov 21, 2008
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I don't have a problem with protesting, peaceful protesting having a sit in at the government buildings or the cop shop or blocking access to a public building or something,

But burning a building down a store that could be owned by your neighbor and looting it. Give me a break.

You can't really blame the cop, can you, the guy was 290 pounds they fought once already while the cop was in his car.
The cop thought the guy was going to take a run at him.
was he guilty of murder no way

was he guilty of anything, I guess it depends on your point of view.

where was it, a eleven year old boy was shot after pointing a fake pistol at people and the cop thought he was reaching for a gun.

Your pointing a gun at someone I dunno but it is a stupid thing to do, what do you think is going to happen when you point a gun at people.
I don't think the cops were told it was possible a fake gun or the age of the kid,

Fake guns are just stupid aren't they, from an old western somewhere don't ever take your gun out and point it at someone unless your prepared to use it.


Black people telling white people to stand behind them and don't talk let them do it all,

if I can't stand beside you and have a voice sorry but your on your own.
 

vancity_cowboy

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Jan 27, 2008
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the jounalist that wrote that piece negates anything good that they had to say with the following statement in the article:

In the 400 years of barbaric, white supremacist, colonial and genocidal history known as the United States...
2014 - 1776 = 238

before that, the real estate in question was spain and england. now granted, spain and england were both slaving nations, but there certainly was no united states of america before 1776
 
Nov 29, 2009
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10
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Pay attention while I educate you. You cherry pick examples and scenarios that are completely unrelated to what happened in Ferguson. What exactly are you trying to convince us of anyway? A gang member-criminal attacked a police officer and got shot. There have been several nights of rioting and looting in Ferguson committed by an all Black demographic. The sports based riots that you use to make your weak point, lasted one night and consisted of a mixed crowd.
Well thanks for the lesson, you sure did school me. So let me recap what I just learned -

White people only riot for one night (I think the 1999 Seattle WTO riots lasted a tad longer, but there are always exceptions to the rules).
When a riot happens in a white town, it's a mixed demographic.
And sports riots are ok, but rioting for a dead unarmed gang member is not.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything professor; I'm just stating the obvious bias. The point of cherry picking the sports rioting is to show that we riot over dumb shit - whether it be for an hour or a week, people were rioting because a coach associated with covering up child molestation was fired, and a goalie couldn't stop a puck! An unarmed teen was shot in front of many witnesses that felt that it was an extreme use of force. They said he had his hands up and asked the officer to stop shooting. The officer said that one more punch from Brown might have been fatal. Yet this is a picture of the officer after the confrontation:



And then, you have an entire neighborhood of people saying that Michael Brown had his hands up and that Wilson didn't have to kill him. There's even a video of two guys who look like me saying his hands were up at the time of the shooting.


The prosecutor's father was a slain cop, his mother worked at the police station for 20 plus years, his brother, uncle and cousin all worked with the St Louis PD.

But anyway, you are correct in that I shouldn't try to convince you or anyone else of anything. I'd have a better time trying to convince the good folks at Fox News that something just isn't right with the investigation that happened in Ferguson. These are pointless arguments where no one ends up being convinced of anything other than their original stance; I mean I simply said that white people riot too, and you can't even acknowledge that with photo evidence showing White people rioting. Your rebuttal is "Yeah but we only riot for the night".

The next time I'm on a deployment, and I see a kid running towards me, I'm going to put a 0.50 cal round in his head and claim that I was in fear of my life. We'll see how well the "I was scared card" works if the kid turns up unarmed.
 
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screwtape1963

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Sep 17, 2004
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Well thanks for the lesson, you sure did school me. So let me recap what I just learned -

White people only riot for one night (I think the 1999 Seattle WTO riots lasted a tad longer, but there are always exceptions to the rules).
When a riot happens in a white town, it's a mixed demographic.
And sports riots are ok, but rioting for a dead unarmed gang member is not.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything professor; I'm just stating the obvious bias. The point of cherry picking the sports rioting is to show that we riot over dumb shit - whether it be for an hour or a week, people were rioting because a coach associated with covering up child molestation was fired, and a goalie couldn't stop a puck! An unarmed teen was shot in front of many witnesses that felt that it was an extreme use of force. They said he had his hands up and asked the officer to stop shooting. The officer said that one more punch from Brown might have been fatal. Yet this is a picture of the officer after the confrontation:



And then, you have an entire neighborhood of people saying that Michael Brown had his hands up and that Wilson didn't have to kill him. There's even a video of two guys who look like me saying his hands were up at the time of the shooting.


The prosecutor's father was a slain cop, his mother worked at the police station for 20 plus years, his brother, uncle and cousin all worked with the St Louis PD.

But anyway, you are correct in that I shouldn't try to convince you or anyone else of anything. I'd have a better time trying to convince the good folks at Fox News that something just isn't right with the investigation that happened in Ferguson. These are pointless arguments where no one ends up being convinced of anything other than their original stance; I mean I simply said that white people riot too, and you can't even acknowledge that with photo evidence showing White people rioting. Your rebuttal is "Yeah but we only riot for the night".

The next time I'm on a deployment, and I see a kid running towards me, I'm going to put a 0.50 cal round in his head and claim that I was in fear of my life. We'll see how well the "I was scared card" works if the kid turns up unarmed.
Yeah, and now that we've heard from your little soapbox, let's look at what MIGHT have caused that grand jury of 12 citizens to toss the case. And kindly remember, it wasn't that prosecutor who made the decision - it was the JURY. And the JURY decided there wasn't even enough evidence of a crime to send the matter to trial (which is a REALLY REALLY low threshold of proof to attain, by the way). Did they come to that conclusion based on what "everybody on the internet says"? No, they reached that decision after hearing all the witnesses and seeing the video. And what did THEY determine? (This is going from memory of my reading of the DA's summary - I'm not going to bother going back and digging up all the details again.)

First, there were two possible versions of events given:

1. The cop's story:

He was driving to another emergency call, when he was blocked by Brown and friend strolling up the middle of the street. He told Brown to quit walking in the middle of the street and use the sidewalk instead, which resulted in Brown becoming angry and abusive. After the first exchange with Brown, the cop noticed the cigarillos in Brown's hand and recalled the radio call in from minutes earlier about the store robbery (which was, IN FACT, Brown), so he called him back to question him about that.

This resulted in Brown - who was 6"4 and 292lbs (and had proven violent tendencies - see store clerk beating above) - leaning into the cop car window and trying to punch out the cop, who was held in place by his seatbelt.

The cop drew his pistol, and Brown tried to take it away from him, at which point the cop fired once and hit Brown in the hand he was trying to grab the pistol with.

Brown then ran away.

In the circumstances, the cop got out of his car to pursue him. (Sorry, but if you rob a store, then assault a cop in his car and try to wrestle his pistol away from him before running away, the cop IS going to pursue you to arrest you for robbery and everything else...)

Instead of surrendering, Brown turned around, lowered his head, and charged the cop with the apparent intention of taking him out.

So the cop took Brown out instead, with several shots from his pistol.

2. The "victim" story:

Poor little unarmed teenager Brown was peacefully walking down the street on his way to see his Granny, when the mean racist white cop picked on him. And then shot him in the back while he was either standing holding his hands up or else on the ground.

To determine which of these two diametrically opposed versions of event should be believed -- or more accurately, to determine if there was ANY evidence to support Victim Version and therefore justify sending the cop to trial, the Grand Jury looked at the testimony of all available witnesses and the physical and forensic evidence.

The Witness's Testimony and the Forensic Evidence:

A. "Victim Story" (Version #2 above) was supported by ONE eyewitness. That was the good buddy that Brown had been walking with. The problem with his testimony, of course, is that he was not only Brown's buddy, he frankly was more like Brown's accomplice. Not a great and credible witness, to be honest. After all, what is he going to say? "Yeah, we knocked over that store and then ..."

Still, it's not up to the Grand Jury to weigh the credibility of the various witness' testimony - just to determine if there is sufficient evidence that - if a jury DID believe it - it COULD lead to a conviction. So the fact that the witness giving this story is a fellow thug is really neither here nor there as far as the evidence's admissibility.

Except that in this particular case, the following also turned out to be true:

B. ALL those other so-called "witnesses" who "saw Brown with his hands in the air" actually didn't see a thing ... because NONE of them were genuine eyewitnesses. When it came time to give testimony under oath, it turned out that NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM had actually seen the incident. They were just blabbing what "someone else" had told them...

C. The ACTUAL eye-witnesses -- apart, of course, from Brown's best buddy: EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM (and several of them, BTW, were BLACK themselves) gave stories that substantially supported the cop's version of events.

(i) They saw Brown leaning into the window of the cop car and some sort of altercation going on when the first shot was fired;

(ii) They saw Brown flee and the cop chase him on foot;

(iii) They saw 6'4" 292lb Brown turn and charge towards the cop, at which point the remaining shots were fired;

(iv) Brown NEVER "stood still and put his hands up" or gave any other sign that he was "peacefully surrendering". In fact, his hands were never above his head - they were always in punching or grappling position, and he was in motion TOWARDS the cop in a threatening and aggressive manner right up until the point he hit the ground;

(v) No shots were fired "into his back" after he was on the ground.

And, as I noted, that evidence came from local witnesses who were BLACK themselves. So the "It's all racism, Man" allegation really doesn't hold water.

And that, in turn, leads to the physical and forensic evidence:

The Forensic Evidence is entirely consistent with the cop's version of events and totally inconsistent with the "shot while peacefully surrendering" version.

(i) Brown had a gunshot wound in one hand and gunshot residue on that hand and powder / lead fragments peppering his hand and sleeve. This is consistent with someone who is trying to grab a gun at the time they are shot in the hand with it. It is entirely INCONSISTENT with someone who has their hand in the air above their head.

(ii) The remaining bullets hit from the front - again inconsistent with "shot while running away" OR "shot in the back while lying on the ground". Angles of entry and so forth are again consistent with hits on a charging target.


Again, the American Grand Jury is very similar to the Canadian Preliminary Inquiry, except that in the US, the verdict at the Grand Jury is determined by a jury of citizens while in Canada, the Preliminary Inquiry is held before a Provincial Court Judge (sitting alone) to determine if the Crown has sufficient evidence to send a case for trial to Queen's Bench Judge and Jury.

In Canada, the official test for the preliminary inquiry is: "Does the Crown have sufficient evidence that, IF BELIEVED, MIGHT lead a reasonable jury, properly instructed, to convict?" A cruder but still substantially accurate way to put that is "Does the Crown have any evidence at all to suggest this guy committed this crime?" As I said earlier, that is a very very very LOW threshold that the Crown has to be able to step over to take a matter to trial - which is the reason that approximately 99% of all matters that go to preliminary inquiry do in fact get sent on to trial. (The prelim is primarily seen as a tool for the defence lawyers to get discovery of the Crown case and an early chance to test the Crown's witnesses in cross-examination. It is very rare for the defence even to bother making an application to have matters dismissed at the end of the prelim.)

Not surprisingly, since both systems arise from the same British Common Law tradition, the American test for the Grand Jury is virtually identical to the Canadian one for the prelminary inquiry. Actually, it would be more accurate to say that the Canadian prelim test is identical to the American grand jury test, because the Canadian test mentioned earlier was plagiarized word-for-word from the old American case of the US v Shepherd.

Bottomline: The ONLY way this case got tossed by the Grand Jury (especially knowing, as they did, that such a verdict might very likely lead to further violence and looting in their own community - and possibly endanger their own homes, businesses and lives) is because there was NOTHING to support a criminal charge.

But hey, if you want to decide instead that the jury spent hundreds of hours hearing and viewing evidence before coming to this conclusion but did so just because "the prosecutor's father was a slain cop, his mother worked at the police station for 20 plus years, his brother, uncle and cousin all worked with the St Louis PD", well ... you're right. There is absolutely NO point trying to convince you of anything different by referring to anything so irrelevant to your beliefs as the actual FACTS of the case...
 
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Nov 29, 2009
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Yeah, and now that we've heard from your little soapbox, let's look at what MIGHT have caused that grand jury of 12 citizens to toss the case. And kindly remember, it wasn't that prosecutor who made the decision - it was the JURY. And the JURY decided there wasn't even enough evidence of a crime to send the matter to trial (which is a REALLY REALLY low threshold of proof to attain, by the way). Did they come to that conclusion based on what "everybody on the internet says"? No, they reached that decision after hearing all the witnesses and seeing the video. And what did THEY determine? (This is going from memory of my reading of the DA's summary - I'm not going to bother going back and digging up all the details again.)

First, there were two possible versions of events given:

1. The cop's story:

He was driving to another emergency call, when he was blocked by Brown and friend strolling up the middle of the street. He told Brown to quit walking in the middle of the street and use the sidewalk instead, which resulted in Brown becoming angry and abusive. After the first exchange with Brown, the cop noticed the cigarillos in Brown's hand and recalled the radio call in from minutes earlier about the store robbery (which was, IN FACT, Brown), so he called him back to question him about that.

This resulted in Brown - who was 6"4 and 292lbs (and had proven violent tendencies - see store clerk beating above) - leaning into the cop car window and trying to punch out the cop, who was held in place by his seatbelt.

The cop drew his pistol, and Brown tried to take it away from him, at which point the cop fired once and hit Brown in the hand he was trying to grab the pistol with.

Brown then ran away.

In the circumstances, the cop got out of his car to pursue him. (Sorry, but if you rob a store, then assault a cop in his car and try to wrestle his pistol away from him before running away, the cop IS going to pursue you to arrest you for robbery and everything else...)

Instead of surrendering, Brown turned around, lowered his head, and charged the cop with the apparent intention of taking him out.

So the cop took Brown out instead, with several shots from his pistol.

2. The "victim" story:

Poor little unarmed teenager Brown was peacefully walking down the street on his way to see his Granny, when the mean racist white cop picked on him. And then shot him in the back while he was either standing holding his hands up or else on the ground.

To determine which of these two diametrically opposed versions of event should be believed -- or more accurately, to determine if there was ANY evidence to support Victim Version and therefore justify sending the cop to trial, the Grand Jury looked at the testimony of all available witnesses and the physical and forensic evidence.

The Witness's Testimony and the Forensic Evidence:

A. "Victim Story" (Version #2 above) was supported by ONE eyewitness. That was the good buddy that Brown had been walking with. The problem with his testimony, of course, is that he was not only Brown's buddy, he frankly was more like Brown's accomplice. Not a great and credible witness, to be honest. After all, what is he going to say? "Yeah, we knocked over that store and then ..."

Still, it's not up to the Grand Jury to weigh the credibility of the various witness' testimony - just to determine if there is sufficient evidence that - if a jury DID believe it - it COULD lead to a conviction. So the fact that the witness giving this story is a fellow thug is really neither here nor there as far as the evidence's admissibility.

Except that in this particular case, the following also turned out to be true:

B. ALL those other so-called "witnesses" who "saw Brown with his hands in the air" actually didn't see a thing ... because NONE of them were genuine eyewitnesses. When it came time to give testimony under oath, it turned out that NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM had actually seen the incident. They were just blabbing what "someone else" had told them...

C. The ACTUAL eye-witnesses -- apart, of course, from Brown's best buddy: EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM (and several of them, BTW, were BLACK themselves) gave stories that substantially supported the cop's version of events.

(i) They saw Brown leaning into the window of the cop car and some sort of altercation going on when the first shot was fired;

(ii) They saw Brown flee and the cop chase him on foot;

(iii) They saw 6'4" 292lb Brown turn and take a run at the cop when the remaining shots were fired;

(iv) Brown NEVER "stood still and put his hands up" or gave any other sign that he was "peacefully surrendering". In fact, his hands were never above his head - they were always in punching or grappling position, and he was in motion TOWARDS the cop in a threatening and aggressive manner right up until the point he hit the ground;

(v) No shots were fired "into his back" after he was on the ground.

And, as I noted, that evidence came from local witnesses who were BLACK themselves. So the "It's all racism, Man" allegation really doesn't hold water.

And that, in turn, leads to the physical and forensic evidence:

The Forensic Evidence is entirely consistent with the cop's version of events and totally inconsistent with the "shot while peacefully surrendering" version.

(i) Brown had a gunshot wound in one hand and gunshot residue on that hand and powder / lead fragments peppering his hand and sleeve. This is consistent with someone who is trying to grab a gun at the time they are shot in the hand with it. It is entirely INCONSISTENT with someone who has their hand in the air above their head.

(ii) The remaining bullets hit from the front - again inconsistent with "shot while running away" OR "shot in the back while lying on the ground". Angles of entry and so forth are again consistent with hits on a charging target.


Again, the American Grand Jury is very similar to the Canadian Preliminary Inquiry, except that in the US, the verdict at the Grand Jury is determined by a jury of citizens while in Canada, the Preliminary Inquiry is held before a Provincial Court Judge (sitting alone) to determine if the Crown has sufficient evidence to send a case for trial to Queen's Bench Judge and Jury.

In Canada, the official test for the preliminary inquiry is: "Does the Crown have sufficient evidence that, IF BELIEVED, MIGHT lead a reasonable jury, properly instructed, to convict?" A cruder but still substantially accurate way to put that is "Does the Crown have any evidence at all to suggest this guy committed this crime?" As I said earlier, that is a very very very LOW threshold that the Crown has to be able to step over to take a matter to trial - which is the reason that approximately 99% of all matters that go to preliminary inquiry do in fact get sent on to trial. (The prelim is primarily seen as a tool for the defence lawyers to get discovery of the Crown case and an early chance to test the Crown's witnesses in cross-examination. It is very rare for the defence even to bother making an application to have matters dismissed at the end of the prelim.)

Not surprisingly, since both systems arise from the same British Common Law tradition, the American test for the Grand Jury is virtually identical to the Canadian one for the prelminary inquiry. Actually, it would be more accurate to say that the Canadian prelim test is identical to the American grand jury test, because the Canadian test mentioned earlier was plagiarized word-for-word from the old American case of the US v Shepherd.

Bottomline: The ONLY way this case got tossed by the Grand Jury (especially knowing, as they did, that such a verdict might very likely lead to further violence and looting in their own community - and possibly endanger their own homes, businesses and lives) is because there was NOTHING to support a criminal charge.

But hey, if you want to decide instead that the jury spent hundreds of hours hearing and viewing evidence before coming to this conclusion but did so just because "the prosecutor's father was a slain cop, his mother worked at the police station for 20 plus years, his brother, uncle and cousin all worked with the St Louis PD", well ... you're right. There is absolutely NO point trying to convince you of anything different by referring to just picayune details as the actual FACTS of the case...
Thanks Screwtape ... I'm officially convinced.
 

Wannadance

Banned
Sep 29, 2014
113
0
0
i think the revolution of which you speak has already begun

although the term revolution might be ascribing motives too lofty to the conflict at hand

on the one side there are afro-americans, whose jobs have been exported to china, saying, 'fuck you honkies, and especially fuck your jack-boot honky police forces,' and going out of their way to disregard direct orders. after the past few years' news stories, if i was an afro-american approached by white police or armed security forces, i would immediately drop to my knees with my hands in the air and i would follow their instructions to the letter, hoping to save my own life - but that's not what is happening. rebellion is what is happening

on the other side there are the entitled white american police forces, whose neighbours' jobs have also been exported to china, and whose opinions of afro-americans are drawn from watching the daily antics of professional afro-american athletes every time they score a goal. when presented with the 'rebellion' of yet another afro-american on the streets that form their beat, they simply pull the trigger

it's a revolution driven by alienation. i guess it's based on the era of slavery

perhaps it's tied to the islamic revolution that is sweeping the world, as some of the people who became american slaves came from african countries that were on the fringes of the muslim portion of north africa

perhaps it's tied to the perception of the failure of the american economy and military might

perhaps it's tied to the presence of an african american in the white house

but i'm sure it is definitely tied to the lack of opportunities due to the export of jobs

and i'm sure it's going to escalate
The export of jobs to China explains what is happening in Ferguson? Hundreds of years of racial tension, first brought about by slavery, can now be cured by preventing the export of jobs to China! Damn. You should be the next US president
 
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