It's a liability issue if I'm not mistaken. You can't go in with a flu asking for antibiotics while doing a follow up regarding your WCB related injuries. They can't invoice msp and wcb simultaneously. You might then say well then they can book you in two separate time slots for the same day so they can do their invoice correctly. Problem is that's where they would be breaking the law by double booking you to double invoice. It varies on the multiple issues and the doctor. You can typically get a doctor to handle multiple issues in one visit if they're all interconnected and relevant.
Facing BC’s Medical Crisis: Doctor Shortages and Inadequate Care
- Thread starter HunkyBill
- Start date
How much per 10 minutes does the family doc office cost?
staff wages, benefits, WCB, EI, CPP for starters
add cleaning
add supplies
add computer /software costs
Add lease cost which, as in all offices, is lease cost, plus taxes, plus utilities
Whistler was without any family doctor for two years after the last round of lease increases.
Now they have a family doctor clinic in a municipally owned building which has no lease costs to the family docs.
Now they have five family docs.
I have a good family Doc who cares and gets things done.
I don't care what they make as long as it is at least enough to keep them here.
My health is worth more than envying what some body makes providing first class service to me.
And compare that to the 10 to 17% inflation increase to themselves voted in by Prime Minsters, cabinet ministers, Members of Parliament, Premiers, Members of Provincial Legislatures, along with high salaries and gold plated pensions and benefits who assure me that they are working to make my life better .......Really?
staff wages, benefits, WCB, EI, CPP for starters
add cleaning
add supplies
add computer /software costs
Add lease cost which, as in all offices, is lease cost, plus taxes, plus utilities
Whistler was without any family doctor for two years after the last round of lease increases.
Now they have a family doctor clinic in a municipally owned building which has no lease costs to the family docs.
Now they have five family docs.
I have a good family Doc who cares and gets things done.
I don't care what they make as long as it is at least enough to keep them here.
My health is worth more than envying what some body makes providing first class service to me.
And compare that to the 10 to 17% inflation increase to themselves voted in by Prime Minsters, cabinet ministers, Members of Parliament, Premiers, Members of Provincial Legislatures, along with high salaries and gold plated pensions and benefits who assure me that they are working to make my life better .......Really?
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if they get paid the same fee whether you spend 10 min on one issue versus 45 min on three issues, why would it make sense for them to let everyone do the latter?
yeah, they want to maximize earnings but so does everyone else
car mechanics charge more for a more difficult job than a simple repair
I was talking to a retired MD recently and I thought I would share. He said that most family doctors in BC bill MSP per visit, so even if a single 5 or 10 minute appointment doesn't pay much, the volume adds up fast. People forget MDs typically earn an enormous salary and the per patient visits are on top of this.
Many don't pay clinic expenses out of pocket anymore since a lot of them now work in clinics they don't own. Even those who do run their own clinics can bill MSP for over a million dollars a year. The Ministry of Health publishes the exact amounts billed, so the numbers aren't hidden. Plus, any expenses they do have can usually be claimed at tax time.
There's one clinic, with its main branch in Richmond, owned by an insanely rich husband and wife duo who are both physicians. Over the last two years, they've bought around 12 medical clinics across the Lower Mainland from retired or deceased doctors 'estate'. They're trying to dominate the market and reshape the patient-doctor dynamic to benefit the staff at the expense of patients. In fact, they don't answer the phone they tell patients and pharmacies or other doctor's offices to send them an email and they'll try to reply within 72 hours.
Many don't pay clinic expenses out of pocket anymore since a lot of them now work in clinics they don't own. Even those who do run their own clinics can bill MSP for over a million dollars a year. The Ministry of Health publishes the exact amounts billed, so the numbers aren't hidden. Plus, any expenses they do have can usually be claimed at tax time.
There's one clinic, with its main branch in Richmond, owned by an insanely rich husband and wife duo who are both physicians. Over the last two years, they've bought around 12 medical clinics across the Lower Mainland from retired or deceased doctors 'estate'. They're trying to dominate the market and reshape the patient-doctor dynamic to benefit the staff at the expense of patients. In fact, they don't answer the phone they tell patients and pharmacies or other doctor's offices to send them an email and they'll try to reply within 72 hours.
I have been arguing for a long time (I wrote to Gordon Campbell when he was Premier and got a nice response to my suggestion) that doctors simply need to be put on salary as BC Gov employees.
1. Once you make it past the first year of medical school you should receive a basic stipend to offset costs.
2. Once you graduate you get a salary and benefits -- sick leave, holidays and a pension.
3. If you decide to 'opt-out' to be a free agent, you then have to deal with all the crap doctors deal with now.
4. If you 'opt-in' you also don't need to pay rent -- government can run clinics and pay staff.
Additionally, the provinces need to standardize their requirements so doctors can move without having to retake exams. As well, the process for getting foreign trained doctors accredited needs to be radically streamlined.
This antiquated system was implemented in the 1960's by a bunch of men who had no idea of what the future was going to look like in their lifetime, including having women in medicine, huge changes in population and innovations in treatments and technologies.
We also require better triage at both hospitals and doctors' clinics. I'm sorry but your seasonal allergies do not an emergency make.
1. Once you make it past the first year of medical school you should receive a basic stipend to offset costs.
2. Once you graduate you get a salary and benefits -- sick leave, holidays and a pension.
3. If you decide to 'opt-out' to be a free agent, you then have to deal with all the crap doctors deal with now.
4. If you 'opt-in' you also don't need to pay rent -- government can run clinics and pay staff.
Additionally, the provinces need to standardize their requirements so doctors can move without having to retake exams. As well, the process for getting foreign trained doctors accredited needs to be radically streamlined.
This antiquated system was implemented in the 1960's by a bunch of men who had no idea of what the future was going to look like in their lifetime, including having women in medicine, huge changes in population and innovations in treatments and technologies.
We also require better triage at both hospitals and doctors' clinics. I'm sorry but your seasonal allergies do not an emergency make.
My take on what pumped posts is similar but ...
Almost all medical doctors run their business as a closely held corporation. If they become part of the BCGE payroll, who covers the cost of setting up their offices, admin assistants and so on. Paying rent ... maybe but what they would net after T4 income vs small business income would not be attractive. Much more to that than what you suggest.
Re standardizing requirements, WAY OVERDUE. We can blame the College of Physicians for all the roadblocks.
Yea seasonal allergies may not seem like an emergency except when the seasonal asthma doesn't let one breathe. Agreed Triage needs to be better - I believe it is a direct result of short staffing which goes back to the efficiency of the system and the extreme amount of waste.
Almost all medical doctors run their business as a closely held corporation. If they become part of the BCGE payroll, who covers the cost of setting up their offices, admin assistants and so on. Paying rent ... maybe but what they would net after T4 income vs small business income would not be attractive. Much more to that than what you suggest.
Re standardizing requirements, WAY OVERDUE. We can blame the College of Physicians for all the roadblocks.
Yea seasonal allergies may not seem like an emergency except when the seasonal asthma doesn't let one breathe. Agreed Triage needs to be better - I believe it is a direct result of short staffing which goes back to the efficiency of the system and the extreme amount of waste.
Because average appt time in Dr’s office statistically is 3-5 minutes.
That means $300 an hr if your rounding down
What most people here aren’t aware of is that at the end of a very very long day doctors have to fill out an insane amount of paper work .
Their receptionists are not allowed to fill this paper work out . Must be done by the doctor if they wanna get paid . Some days this can apparently take close to a couple of hrs easily . On top of that they are not getting paid for this time .
Of course any doctor would happily get paid for this time if offered . Who wouldn’t ?
Well , recently the province of B.C started something new where they offered to pay doctors for their time filling out paper work .
However , the big CAVEAT was that in order to qualify you have to be seeing over 80% repeat patients .
this means if you even worked one day in a walk in the risk of you going over that number and not qualifying was too high .
So what happened was ALL WALK INS immediately STOPPED operating as wall ins and STOPPED excepting new patients and converted themselves instead into family practices not excepting new patients .
So this has had a major impact on the healthcare system in regards to people who need care who do not presently have a doctor.
The idea originally was meant to encourage med students to go into family practices as there was a big lack of family doctors .
While it slowly seems to be helping in its goal it also seems to have created a new challenge .
Their receptionists are not allowed to fill this paper work out . Must be done by the doctor if they wanna get paid . Some days this can apparently take close to a couple of hrs easily . On top of that they are not getting paid for this time .
Of course any doctor would happily get paid for this time if offered . Who wouldn’t ?
Well , recently the province of B.C started something new where they offered to pay doctors for their time filling out paper work .
However , the big CAVEAT was that in order to qualify you have to be seeing over 80% repeat patients .
this means if you even worked one day in a walk in the risk of you going over that number and not qualifying was too high .
So what happened was ALL WALK INS immediately STOPPED operating as wall ins and STOPPED excepting new patients and converted themselves instead into family practices not excepting new patients .
So this has had a major impact on the healthcare system in regards to people who need care who do not presently have a doctor.
The idea originally was meant to encourage med students to go into family practices as there was a big lack of family doctors .
While it slowly seems to be helping in its goal it also seems to have created a new challenge .
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What some people here either ignore or are unaware that paperwork is part of a physicians duties (courts, insurance company requests) and that's on top of their salary. Ditto with a police officer. They don't do it as a charity. They charge for it. For a simple one page form it costs me $75. The more pages, the more expensive it is.
An interesting way of addressing the problem.
https://www.colwood.ca/news/colwood-welcomes-its-first-family-physician-colwood-clinic
https://www.colwood.ca/news/colwood-welcomes-its-first-family-physician-colwood-clinic
Canada's, and especially BC's, biggest waste of health care dollars is in the administrative end. There are more managers, and other unproductive clones in out health care than almost every other system in the world. Front-line, active health care providers are secondary to the bloat of bureaucracy.
Yup, the $75 out of your pocket, plus whichever amount they may invoice to MSP, ICBC or WCB (depending on your reason for being there), and during your appointment, which most times can only be alloted for the paperwork, not to further elaborate on your health care needs.
