Escort sting nets $90K in fines

[susi]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/06/30/14566686.html

A team tasked with cracking down on unlicensed escorts nabbed 17 people who now face $90,000 in fines.

“We want to try to get girls out of this type of business,” said acting Staff Sgt. Steve Crosby of the Edmonton police vice section.

“It’s very high risk.”

Police and city bylaw officials teamed up June 16 and 17 in a sting that targeted unlicensed escorts working in downtown and west Edmonton buildings.

On the first day, seven unlicensed escorts and two unlicensed drivers were handed fines totalling $47,500. Two warrants were also executed.

The next day, seven more escorts were slapped with $42,500 in fines.

“People might say this is a money grab,” Crosby said.

“That’s not what we’re doing. We work very closely with bylaw officials. They have a job to do, and they know we have a job to do.”

The latest bust was one of several stings police conduct several times a year.

“The problem of unlicensed escorts is an ongoing issue, and we have to stay vigilant,” Crosby said.

“Ultimately, we are concerned for the men and women who are working as unlicensed escorts.”

The fine for unlicensed escorts is $2,500, while workers without an association to a licensed agency can net the same amount.

 

[Guardian Angel]

I was wondering if any of these warrants involved Perb members and if so, I would think we would have heard some information from at least one or two people . Or is their some kind of repercussion if they were to give a heads up or verify this actually took place? Just curious.

Maybe any members in the sting can verify what happened and how the sting operation was done. Or is this just the city pounding their chest to keep the public happy thinking they are trying to keep tabs on all the escorts and such. Just seems strange, no one from the other side of the tracks has made any comments????

G.A.

 

[Rod the bod]

Interesting that the authorities claim to be so concerned and yet when Kim Honey and others complained to police about a serially dangerous client she was told 'it comes with the job'. She is pursuing a legitimate activity - as legitimate as being a police officer and yet is offered no protection. Hypocrisy at its most complete.

 

[Jana]

Busting escorts gets far more money. It's an easy fine...as opposed to actually arresting someone, which ends up costing more money.

And yes, this has NOTHING to do with safety. I love how the City wants to legitimize it by requiring a license, yet the options that are available to other legitimate businesses aren't there.

The stings happen on a quarterly basis, so I have no doubt there is a quota.

 

[Bobo The Rabbit]

Its not a money grab, this is EDMONTON, not Vancouver.
The majority of Edmonton SPs work in MPs where they ARE safer than a unlicensed escort doing outcalls or incalls working CL.
By putting girls in licensed MPs the city protects them a lot, and the city allows the MPs to exist and everyone knows they are selling sex, but this is the best option for the girls, the clients and the city.

So before you go shit all over something, understand it first.

Girls in MPs work together in groups of 3-5 depending on the MP, they are in clean and safe environments, a guy who wants to abuse or hurt a SP is going to pick the girl advertising on CL working out of her apartment alone or willing to come to his hotel room over going to a MP where there will be 4 other girls and other men there too.

If you cant work in a MP or wont pay for a license then getting fined is a reality and its the risk you take, along with bad dates, rape and abuse.

This is why I very rarely post or read in the lounge, people are so quick to jump to conclusions on things they do not understand. its just sad.

 

[Bobo The Rabbit]

AGAIN you are not IN EDMONTON...
Let me explain, up until 3 years ago VERY FEW GUYS saw escorts in Edmonton, none of the legit good girls were working as escorts, go read the first 50 pages of Edmonton's REVIEW SECTION and see how many escorts are reviewed.
None.
Even today most Edmonton escorts are the bottom of the barrel and the majority of guys wont see them, while what works for your city might be great, it is not EDMONTON.

At that, only because girls from Vancouver and girls from Montreal came out here did guys start to see escorts.

MPs are safer, that's a fact (like a car with airbags vs no air bags).
If you want to be independent great, buy a license because that's what our city has decided and its how we like it.
You dont want to buy one? too bad, take the risk of getting fined.

This bust happened over 2 weeks ago, why did no girls post? Because none of the girls busted are on PERB, why? because if you dont call yourself an escort they wont bother you.

I want to call myself DR Bobo The Rabbit, but our society has rules about my doing that so I cant.
If girls want to work as SPs and post CL adds intelligently, screen their customers properly LE wont get them.

You wanna be a escort get a LICENSE, you wanna have sex with men for money, no ones stopping you.

 

[Jana]

AGAIN you are not IN EDMONTON...
Let me explain, up until 3 years ago VERY FEW GUYS saw escorts in Edmonton, none of the legit good girls were working as escorts, go read the first 50 pages of Edmonton's REVIEW SECTION and see how many escorts are reviewed.
None.
Even today most Edmonton escorts are the bottom of the barrel and the majority of guys wont see them, while what works for your city might be great, it is not EDMONTON.

At that, only because girls from Vancouver and girls from Montreal came out here did guys start to see escorts.

MPs are safer, that's a fact (like a car with airbags vs no air bags).
If you want to be independent great, buy a license because that's what our city has decided and its how we like it.
You dont want to buy one? too bad, take the risk of getting fined.

This bust happened over 2 weeks ago, why did no girls post? Because none of the girls busted are on PERB, why? because if you dont call yourself an escort they wont bother you.

I want to call myself DR Bobo The Rabbit, but our society has rules about my doing that so I cant.
If girls want to work as SPs and post CL adds intelligently, screen their customers properly LE wont get them.

You wanna be a escort get a LICENSE, you wanna have sex with men for money, no ones stopping you.

With all due respect Bobo, you aren't an SP, and while you may reside in Edmonton, you don't have first hand experience in the industry.

If they were really concerned for girls safety, they would have more than quarterly stings. And they aren't doing this to usher them into massage parlours. As i've heard, the licensing for MP's will be changing soon, requiring all attendants to have a certificate in massage. That alone will force a large amount of attendants out of MP's, and probably onto Craigslist. Which then either leads to higher licensing fees for those who choose to do so, or larger sums from stings.

And quite frankly, fining drivers takes away one of the safety aspects that exist for Independent girls. Makes me wonder if even a licensed girl's driver would get the fine.

 

[Bobo The Rabbit]

Again,if you want to call yourself an "escort" which is a licensed job, it is not just a name it is a licensed job in our society, then you need to get a license. Its like any trade which one needs a license for, you do work in a trade that our society has licensed then you get a license.
See me use the word license so many times?
When girls from Edmonton who are on PERB come here and complain then maybe our system is not working, but so far all I hear is girls from Vancouver who are looking at this situation and venting their own frustrations against Edmonton's system because they dislike their own system.

I can think of two of the more popular girls in Edmonton who started as indy escorts and were raved about by us guys (Micha and the Asian chick who worked with her and Ashlee), both are now working in MPs.
I can not think of any girls in Edmonton who started out in MPs and are now working full time (I do mean full time, because there are some who tour and still come back to Edmonton) in Edmonton as escorts, maybe I'm missing someone but can any Edmonton guys name some?

We have several visiting escorts who come to Edmonton and work out of MPs even, so I say the system works.
If it did not, why would over 90% of Edmonton's working SPs do so in MPs? They could go Indy if they wanted, buy a license it costs next to nothing.
So why is that?
Why?
Why?

 

[HubbaHubba]

if that's the rules in EDMONTON that's the rules, right or wrong. Not sure why girls need to tour there anyways?


Out of curiosity, how much does a license go for per year?

 

[Pillowtalk]

It is legal for women to work independently. The city has no business trying to bully them into working for a massage parlour "for their own good", as your post seems to imply.

I have no interest in working in a massage parlour. I love working independently and being my own boss. I have worked for 5 years and I have never had a bad date. I have never encountered violence on the job. I trust my own screening procedures far more than I would trust an agency's.

I don't know enough about the working conditions in Edmonton to say whether it is safer to work independently or in a massage parlour, but I don't think it's appropriate to tell them what "is best for them." I find that extremely paternalistic.

I think it should be up to the individual woman to decide how she prefers to work. (And yes, as mentioned previously, people are always liable to receive fines if they choose to violate bylaws. If these women chose to work unlicensed, then they were always at risk of receiving a fine)

They have to get a city business license to work legally as an escort in Edmonton. This I think costs close to 2000 bucks. If they work at an mp, this same kind of license costs about 200 bucks. That is usually why they work un-licensed. But also, traveling sps who are working in this city and Calgary are unlicensed, and can be subject to the same fines.

The problem is that they can legally work at prostitution, say contacted thru a CL or perb ad, set up appt and go to an outcall at a hotel, but in Edmonton they can be asked to show their business license too. The stings usually call up the sps, set up the appt, get them to the location, and then they can write them a ticket for working without the license. They are supposed to use it in their ads, apparently, as well, so they are really easy to set up in a sting. I suppose they could also have an incall at a hotel, and get stung that way, but I think it might be more time consuming than just having the sps show up to them?

If the sps are licensed by the city, they have to go in, apply, give out their real name and address information, proof of age, and I think a background check. This way the city has a full account of who is (legally) working in the industry. I am not sure, but I think the process is the same for mp sps, who do not have to pay so much for being an independent sp.

I think it is similar to operating any business without a license; the bylaw enforcement would do routine checks, issue fines, etc etc. However, the city business license for any other kind of busiiness doesn't come close to the rates paid by an independent escort, and the fines probably do not come close to the fines issued to unlicensed escorts. If they show that is not the case, then no it is not a cash grab. But charging 10 x the rate of any other license for an escort kind of tells a different story.

 

[Pillowtalk]

Its not a money grab, this is EDMONTON, not Vancouver.
The majority of Edmonton SPs work in MPs where they ARE safer than a unlicensed escort doing outcalls or incalls working CL.
By putting girls in licensed MPs the city protects them a lot, and the city allows the MPs to exist and everyone knows they are selling sex, but this is the best option for the girls, the clients and the city.

So before you go shit all over something, understand it first.

Girls in MPs work together in groups of 3-5 depending on the MP, they are in clean and safe environments, a guy who wants to abuse or hurt a SP is going to pick the girl advertising on CL working out of her apartment alone or willing to come to his hotel room over going to a MP where there will be 4 other girls and other men there too.

If you cant work in a MP or wont pay for a license then getting fined is a reality and its the risk you take, along with bad dates, rape and abuse.

This is why I very rarely post or read in the lounge, people are so quick to jump to conclusions on things they do not understand. its just sad.

Not that long ago, I read at least 2 posts by mp sps who were left ALONE to work the mp by themselves, including doing appt and reception. So I am not too sure about this "safety" factor, unless that is a fairly rare occurrence, it did not seem that unusual the way they posted about it wasn't the fact they were alone, but that something happened. And the fact is, stuff happens in mps as well as for an indy, but the indy takes a great deal more care about who she is going to see while an mp or agency sp often has no say whatsoever (and sometimes is fined $$ for choosing not to see someone).

 

[Bare_Facts]

...And this is all the cops have to do up in E Town? Edmonton usually tops most of the "Number 1 in crime" lists in Canada for major cities. ...

Just where are you getting your stats from dood? Googling crime stats in Canada doesn't even put Edmonton top 5. Is it higher than I would like - Yes. Is it worst in Canada - No. The fact it makes the list - slightly disturbing

 

[Bobo The Rabbit]

It is VERY rare for any MP to operate with only one girl working, VERY rare.
The norm in the better studios right now is 4-5 girls working, just go look at MP schedules posted on their websites and you will see how many girls are on shift, PLUS many MPs now have a girl working reception who is not a SP.
There have also been posts about something happening at a MP and the other men who are customers coming to the aid of the SP who was ripped off.
Also pillowtalk how can you care that a girl in a MP worked alone, yet all the indy escorts are ALWAYS ALONE...

Why were the drivers fined? BECAUSE THEY ARE WORKING AS DRIVERS, you need to be LICENSED to be a chauffeur, what do you think stops people from just offering people rides around town in their private vehicles for cash? Or did these guys then claim "oh I'm working security for the girl"? You need a license for that too.

There are no legit MPs that have a fine system for not wanting to see a guy, there were a few low LOW end MPs that did have shady business practices, such as peters places and the vish guy who are now gone and vish is going through court.
No girl is forced to pick to work in a dump of a MP and there are some run down MPs.
However just go Google supreme spa/Extreme Body care/revive/Legends followed by the words Massage Edmonton and you can see how nice the Edmonton MPs are.
If a girl wants to work in a dump that has a "fine" system that is her choice and its a stupid one as MANY legit MPs are hiring.

Again the only girls getting busted are the ones who call themselves ESCORTS when they are not, to be a escort you need a license, what part of that do people not get?

When the city says they want to protect these girls by getting them licensed they do mean exactly that.

If you go to get one as a indy escort and it costs 2k but working in a MP would only be 200 a year, odds are you might give working in a MP some thought.

I have never heard of a girl working in one of Edmonton's MPs ending up dead at work, yet I sure have heard about a lot of dead escorts and hookers.

No one here is stupid enough to honestly believe that working as a indy is safer than working in a MP.
That's just stupid.

 

[wolverine]

Before all this arguing goes on any further, the busts occurred "west end" and "downtown" which implies that they're going after the micros.

And to address an earlier question: Edmonton does have some high quality independent SPs who are not working the MP circuit: Shawna, and Billy Blake among them. There's Valentina but I haven't seen her CL ads in a while. Mischa and Kadee mostly work independently, with Kadee doing fills at one MP while Mischa works a couple of shifts a week at another MP.

 

[Jana]

MP's are a great option for a lot of girls, but not all. MP's are EASY and that's why so many opt for that route. You go in, you wait, you fuck, repeat. No advertising, no stupid email questions etc etc. You get your criminal records check, and then purchase your license (which is a lot lower than for an "escort"). However, there are a lot of downsides too. The whole "parade" factor can be degrading to some women, they don't like the drama with the girls, undercutting, having to be ready to fuck 8 hours a day, 4 days a week. Some ladies don't like this, and really, they should have the right to choose without having to pay to be a legitimate business which isn't actually a legitimate business.

Indies have a lot of benefits...they choose who they see, for how much and when. The bitchy factor is significantly less, and they only have to answer to themselves. To get a license, they have to pay 27X that of what a girl in an MP pays. They go in for an interview with Vice, who asks them a million questions...some probably far too personal for their liking. They submit an application with a criminal records check and their photo ID.

Now here's the real problem with licensing in this city, and it goes for MP's as well...The City legitimizes them as a business, and yet they get no perks that other businesses get. No access to EI, no option to pay into WCB, and good luck getting sick time/holiday pay/company benefits. Yeah, i get it, it comes with the territory, but why the hell would i pay to be a legitimate business if I'm not recognized as such? Ultimately the only "protection" that getting licensed is that it protects a girl from getting fined.

A licensed independent can't offer incall, which cuts her market in half at least. She has to report each and every clients name, address and length of call 10 days prior to the end of the month to the city. And will have the fear that someone who works for the city may be able to access information....and for zero benefit to her. I can think of far better places to throw 2 grand where I get nothing in return.

Also, I'm not an escort...be damned if any dude has paid me to take me to a movie...but if i showed up at one of those stings, i sure would be fined as such, because I'm supposed to be licensed as one. Remember, "escort" means "indoor prostitute" to the City. Sure, I could go to court and fight it, but I actually have a legitimate job, and really don't have such time for nonsense. I'm smart, and screen who I see, and that's the way it will be until the City of Edmonton can justify for me to pay such a higher fee than other businesses, for the right to do what I want with MY body. I don't believe in pimps, or giving men the money I earn, so why would I give it to "The Man"?

Lots of reputable MP's have fines. Not for not seeing a client, but for being late etc.

 

[mimi]

It costs me $100 dollars per year for a business license. I have a small business sewing corsets, lingerie and I sell sex toys....I have the potential to make more than an escort...I know this because I worked in such a shop for over a year before I started my own.

I am insulted that an escort license with the city of Vancouver would require me to submit fingerprints and a picture "to identify my dead body"

I was exposed to more ruffians working at the sex shop in a slummy area of town than working as an escort. I worked in the shop alone at night.

I am in favour of having a business license as an escort as I am already paying taxes and filing, however, I am wary, as others are, of being 'branded.

I would also prefer to work for an agency, but, no agency will take on a woman of my age, and, the agencies are now in the habit of telling a woman who she must see rather than allowing her to use her judgement. I was surprised that agencies are also setting up the appointment and sending the escort out without allowing her to do the call and test the waters.

When I travel over the border now, I do not mention that I sell sex toys. Even that will put one in a bad light with officials.

Stings used to happen in the 80s too..and in the 90s...

 

[mimi]

Ok, so I am back all refreshed and rested and I want to add to the comments about safety in this industry. Risk is a factor in every industry. Police face greater risks every day than most of us, depending of course on where they are working, so, it is ironic, to some degree, that they would be doing the 'girls' a favour in getting them out of the industry. Would they fare better as cops busting dealers?

Street workers have a high incidence of death. Escorts have a very low incident...I mean historically. However, with street workers moving indoors how does one separate the two groups? As of the nineties there had been 2 deaths related to escort workers, one in Victoria committed by a mentally ill man, and the other in Vancouver the result of an overdose at a party call. Since that last death I have no idea of the mortality among escorts...and I am not factoring in those involved in the Picton situation as they were street workers.

It was always thought that working on the street was the factor that raised the risk level of this occupation, however, it would appear it is more due to association with criminals. Moving indoors to an establishment that sells drugs along with sex is not going to improve the odds. The overdose death in Vancouver in the nineties involved an agency that routinely sent drugs along with the girls to sell.

Certainly behaviour patterns play a significant roll in risk, as does drug involvement. I cannot think of a time when I escorted in 80s or 90s where I was exposed to a person who was likely to commit a crime against me. However, I admit to being spoiled.

When I worked for agencies the calls had already been screened before they got to me. I remember the secretary shouting into the phone periodically and looking flustered as she dealt with rude customers, but, it wasn't until I became an independent that I realized the extent of what she suffered every night. I get calls from younger men demanding that I see them, and they are quite aggressive sounding and very rude. If I were a desperate woman I might take that call just to get my next fix or pay the rent. Fortunately I can keep the roof over my head without resorting to accepting dangerous calls, but, desperation is a factor in the risk.

Without a co-operative effort among the women there is no way to reduce this risk factor, really. Licensing would have no effect on safety.

But, all this is a long way from why escorts are not licensing their business.

 

[Bad Santa]

MP's are a great option for a lot of girls, but not all. MP's are EASY and that's why so many opt for that route. You go in, you wait, you fuck, repeat. No advertising, no stupid email questions etc etc. You get your criminal records check, and then purchase your license (which is a lot lower than for an "escort"). However, there are a lot of downsides too. The whole "parade" factor can be degrading to some women, they don't like the drama with the girls, undercutting, having to be ready to fuck 8 hours a day, 4 days a week. Some ladies don't like this, and really, they should have the right to choose without having to pay to be a legitimate business which isn't actually a legitimate business.

Indies have a lot of benefits...they choose who they see, for how much and when. The bitchy factor is significantly less, and they only have to answer to themselves. To get a license, they have to pay 27X that of what a girl in an MP pays. They go in for an interview with Vice, who asks them a million questions...some probably far too personal for their liking. They submit an application with a criminal records check and their photo ID.

Now here's the real problem with licensing in this city, and it goes for MP's as well...The City legitimizes them as a business, and yet they get no perks that other businesses get. No access to EI, no option to pay into WCB, and good luck getting sick time/holiday pay/company benefits. Yeah, i get it, it comes with the territory, but why the hell would i pay to be a legitimate business if I'm not recognized as such? Ultimately the only "protection" that getting licensed is that it protects a girl from getting fined.

A licensed independent can't offer incall, which cuts her market in half at least. She has to report each and every clients name, address and length of call 10 days prior to the end of the month to the city. And will have the fear that someone who works for the city may be able to access information....and for zero benefit to her. I can think of far better places to throw 2 grand where I get nothing in return.

Also, I'm not an escort...be damned if any dude has paid me to take me to a movie...but if i showed up at one of those stings, i sure would be fined as such, because I'm supposed to be licensed as one. Remember, "escort" means "indoor prostitute" to the City. Sure, I could go to court and fight it, but I actually have a legitimate job, and really don't have such time for nonsense. I'm smart, and screen who I see, and that's the way it will be until the City of Edmonton can justify for me to pay such a higher fee than other businesses, for the right to do what I want with MY body. I don't believe in pimps, or giving men the money I earn, so why would I give it to "The Man"?

Lots of reputable MP's have fines. Not for not seeing a client, but for being late etc.

Can anyone say it better than this? Right the fuck on Jana.

Dood, you are so right! Jana's post could not be more right on the money and everything else!

Jana, I love you for that post. It is without a doubt the best most truthful post about this business I have read since joining PERB. You ROCK Jana!

 

[Jana]

Dood, you are so right! Jana's post could not be more right on the money and everything else!

Jana, I love you for that post. It is without a doubt the best most truthful post about this business I have read since joining PERB. You ROCK Jana!

Hahaha thanks...but why bother sugarcoating it? Doing so deludes pooners to think that all is good, and that leads them to come on here and angrily post their opinion, as though it's RIGHT and the only one that is...even though licensing really doesn't effect them.

Now, just for reference, these are the rules, and I fully accept the consequences if they manage to get through my brick wall. But just because they are the rules, doesn't mean they're right.

 

[HubbaHubba]

And now every government document with the woman's name will be associated with this escort license including her passport. (I know of two girls who have been denied entry into the States because of this license).

Also, if the woman ever dies, you better believe the police and newspapers will make sure to print that she was a "prostitute"

Great, Great points....Hey Bobo, I'm glad the system works great for YOU......but here is exactly why it doesn't work for the girls.

EDMONTON
LICENSE
Jack A*s
We got it.