Emotional foolishness, dating game, how do you guys do it?

[magicmystery]

A lot of posters here have a lot of experience with women. For a while now, I've been trying to get better at being 'smooth' with women. I want to be able to 'pick-up' girls from bars (or grocery stores, or coffee-shops), just like a lot of guys do. Dance, make small talk, have fun and go home with a girl you met just few hours ago.

I want to be able to do just that. Even if I think in my mind that all I want to do is have sex with this particular girl, I end up getting emotionally attached. I obsess about the girl. I start doing things like buying gifts, flowers, chocolates, phones, emails, text messages etc. And I find myself unable to think about anyone but her. This behavior leads to a 'relationship' that I did not originally plan or intended. Not that I have done this to many women (I couldn't, I often lose focus and get rejected earlier in the process by doing too many 'sweet' things and making myself look 'needy', I guess). My question to you is -- how do you guys deal with this? The emotional aspects of this. Did you guys get your heartbroken a few times before you hardened or were you naturally 'don't care' kinds?

I don't play sports, don't dance, don't drink, don't smoke. I've never been into music, and I didn't watch movies growing up (although I watch movies a lot now). I am into math, computers, physics kind of stuff. I don't think other things like knowledge of music, or movies is a mindless pursuit. I don't think playing or following sports is a waste of time. I just didn't do it growing up.

If my parents had not had this single-minded focus on 'education', I'd have acquired some vital social skills. But alas, they pushed me (at cost of everything else) towards what they thought will make me successful -- studies and studies only and I never learned vital social skills. I didn't date anyone until I got into grad-school and that too happened because of series of coincidences. I hit it off with a girl. Somehow, I cracked amazing jokes, and came-off as if I didn't really care about her either way. That's when she got into me (and I continued playing hard to get. Not consciously though. It just so happened that I was just busy with some problems of my own and I actually had a crush on somebody else) and it worked like the 'game' works.

I don't like resigning or giving up to circumstances. I want to improve this and make up for lost time.

With this goal in mind, my single biggest problem with girls, right now, is not fear of rejection but getting emotionally too attached to her. I guess, you could say, getting emotionally too attached to target of practice.

 

[magicmystery]

Well dude, I'd say the quick emotional attachment thing is probably a bad sign...in that you're insecure with yourself and you need something. If you're a female, it's a warning sign that you're a needy, clingy type.

As for all the things you didn't do..my answer is so what ? Why can't you do them now? Who says you need to drink ? You'll probably find that women prefer that you don't drink in many cases

As for learning sports or how to dance..what's stopping you? I was 38 when a chick friend of mine pushed me to take latin & hiphop dancing. I was Mr Two Left feet and now dude, I can lay it down to a Ne Yo record and..believe me, even at nearly 40 it DOES get you a whole shitload of attention.

It's going to take you a while to learn social skills but the best way is to get out and meet people..and do things. Step outside your comfort zone and don't feel awkward.

Most of all, get out and be social. Go out and meet a dozen females & socialize with them as friends. Chicks like boys that listen and don't get too needy. Once you get some confidence with yourself, you'll be just fine.

As for getting emotionally attached, it is hard. We all do it, myself included. You've just got to learn to control it. Women DO dig a dude that is into them..just not too much. They like the control .

I was only giving context to my personality. I don't plan to start drinking or smoking (I never did, and I don't see why I need to do it). As for other things like learning to dance, playing sports and all. I am working on those things. One or two at a time. That is, I've joined a couple of classes like public speaking, martial arts. But the single biggest problem, as you noted too, is quick emotional attachment (even with girls that I originally think of as targets of practice, nothing more). I am sometimes able to bottle it up (that is, control myself from showing it explicitly by buying gifts, flowers, emails etc.) but even when I bottle it up, it continues to bother me (inside my head). Then it just dies. I don't like to do things when I am obsessing about someone because I know whatever I do, at that time, won't be rational, and so I just let it die. And sometimes I am not able to bottle it up, and I start getting strong rejection hints as I start overdoing things like emails, gifts etc.

Anyway - were you naturally good at controlling your emotional-attachments or did you learn it gradually? Did you get really upset when the girl you were obsessing about gave you rejection hints by mentioning how she had a boyfriend, or how she thought you were 'just friend' and that kind of nonsense. Did you get over this immediately and went to find a new target? I don't get over it quickly, I mourn for sometime.

 

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magicmystery, your parents are similar to mine. Education was their only focus. I missed the first portion of my high school prom because I had to finish an assignment (that wasn't even due immediately) for some correspondence course. Absolutely no girlfriends were allowed while I was in school. My first kiss occurred when I was 22 (sort of as an experiment with a friend), having never even touched a girl (in a sexual way) in my teenage years. I never knew the meaning of teenagers making out.

And now, they are like, 'why don't you go get girlfriend (and get married and have kids, blah, blah, blah)'. Sure, I will go get one right now since there's this new girlfriend vending machine just down the street. Maybe I can get a second one for 50% off, too.

However, all this 'isolation' did give me time and space to carefully observe the relationship dramas around my friends and peers and the dynamics of the so-called dating game. When I entered the grad school, I decide not to remain the shy and quiet person I had been. I became more outgoing and started reading on topics such as small talks, body languages, and humour. I no longer ignored girls. I felt like a different person, definitely more confident. Girls (and maybe a man, too, I suspected ) were interested in me. A couple would like to become my girlfriend, but I just didn't pursue further, and I had fun. Now I recall I was pretty popular amongs girls when I was in the grade school. Qqualities that were attractive to girls were suppressed in high school and university; I had to rediscover them.

Observations over the years have convinced me that it's better to stay single, for me at least. I mean, what's the point of having a boy/girlfriend anyway? To this day, no one has given me a satisfactory answer. Besides, I wouldn't want to be limited to just one partner anyway. Since the majority of the girls are 'monogamy'-minded (or at least be open to fact that I am not), I never bother with it. Being single by choice is quite a challenge (and definitely at a disadvantage in many matters) in this couple-centric society of ours (actually most of the world).

 

[magicmystery]

Perhaps man, you should investigate your own beliefs on what dating & women are about ? My buddy is in the same circumstance.

Personally, I think buying women flowers, books, candy, etc is a stupid idea. It's an archaic, dated belief that was relevant in the 80s. Not in 2009. I think the chicks of today want to be entertained, they want to laugh and they want to see they've met a man that's both confident, intelligent and can talk to them. A guy that can carry the conversation when they can't.

Yeah, I kind of know this thing. Theoretically, I know the 'game'. Practically, I find myself unable to play the game because of emotional interferences/distractions.

Am I insecure? I don't think so. But I definitely feel 'lacking' in personality sometimes and I won't be surprised if deep down that led to some insecurity. But I am proactively taking care of this personality-aspect by doing things that I think I missed on (but want to do). Maybe then, I'd also not get too attached too quickly either.

Maybe I am just emotionally immature (but what does it take to mature?)

However, all this 'isolation' did give me time and space to carefully observe the relationship dramas around my friends and peers and the dynamics of the so-called dating game. When I entered the grad school, I decide not to remain the shy and quiet person I had been. I became more outgoing and started reading on topics such as small talks, body languages, and humour. I no longer ignored girls. I felt like a different person, definitely more confident. Girls (and maybe a man, too, I suspected ) were interested in me. A couple would like to become my girlfriend, but I just didn't pursue further, and I had fun. Now I recall I was pretty popular amongs girls when I was in the grade school. Qqualities that were attractive to girls were suppressed in high school and university; I had to rediscover them.

I've reached this exact same decision - to not remain what I've been so far (shy, nervous, with only half-a-personality). Pushed by parents into this 'isolation', I never acquired these vital personality traits. I am not sure if my qualities are suppressed or non-existent. But either way, I need to discover or re-discover them and cultivate them. Only problem, so far, has been that while I am able to force myself to step out of my comfort zone, I find myself getting too attached too quickly (even when, in my mind, I am just practicing hanging-out). And I get into mourning phase when I get rejection (strong hints of rejections). Didn't you have to deal with this hurdle too? How did you get past this emotional-attachment phase?

The other problem (but not a big one) is that I get bored of small-talk very quickly. Seconds. I enjoy discussions over technology, politics, religion/atheism and so on but I am clueless as to where Britney Spears concert is (apparently there was one in Vancouver few days ago) and these topics seem to be more common. But it's not a very big problem, I can easily correct it by glancing over entertainment and sports sections of Google News.

 

[Harmony-bc]

I would like to give my opinion, if I may.

I think you are very cute, funny, and definitely intelligent. If I was a college girl, I'd date you. I would suggest seeing sp's to release some of the sexual tension, and to practice. Don't worry about dating, or meeting girls, that will come. Take a hiphop dance course, like someone else suggested. It will give you some moves at the night club. Most girls like to go dancing. A man that can dance, and that has rhythm, is a sexy man. It will also give you moves in the bedroom, as well. You can slow dance with her in her living room, and she will swoon.

Don't listen to them about the presents. Too many, too soon, however can be scary. I personally love thoughtful gestures like that. Flowers to make my house smell pretty, mmmm chocolate, lol. It just shows you are sweet, romantic, and thoughtful. The right girl, will fall head over heels in love with that approach. The rest you have to work on though, relaxing, not obsessing, etc. That is what they run from. When someone is obsessed with me, I can feel it in their vibrations, and it can be a little weird, and very awkward.

 

[lenny]

Women DO dig a dude that is into them..just not too much. They like the control .

I think Asian women may be different. They aim to please the man
not to control him. They expect him to be a man & take control,
and be a provider.

 

[lenny]

And once you've learned all of this..then you'll understand Sperms advice..that women are insane and it's best to stay away LOL.

Women aren't insane, they just cum from Venus and use a different half
of the brain than men do ; Aside from sports talk & a few other things
where men excel, women are superior in almost every important way.
They are sweeter, more intuitive, spiritual, and friendly, have greater
longevity, better sense of smell & hearing, etc etc etc

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/3325/are_women_really_superior_to_men.html

 

[magicmystery]

I would like to give my opinion, if I may.

I think you are very cute, funny, and definitely intelligent. If I was a college girl, I'd date you. I would suggest seeing sp's to release some of the sexual tension, and to practice. Don't worry about dating, or meeting girls, that will come. Take a hiphop dance course, like someone else suggested. It will give you some moves at the night club. Most girls like to go dancing. A man that can dance, and that has rhythm, is a sexy man. It will also give you moves in the bedroom, as well. You can slow dance with her in her living room, and she will swoon.

Don't listen to them about the presents. Too many, too soon, however can be scary. I personally love thoughtful gestures like that. Flowers to make my house smell pretty, mmmm chocolate, lol. It just shows you are sweet, romantic, and thoughtful. The right girl, will fall head over heels in love with that approach. The rest you have to work on though, relaxing, not obsessing, etc. That is what they run from. When someone is obsessed with me, I can feel it in their vibrations, and it can be a little weird, and very awkward.

Oh, Harmony, you flatter me!! Thank you for the compliment (cute, funny intelligent). You are the only person here who has seen me and who also knows my perb-handle. But in the interest of honesty, meeting you is different from meeting a random girl. With you, I knew and you knew what I was there for, and I didn't have to play the 'game' per se. If you were a college girl, I wouldn't have approached you. And even if I had approached you, you'd have sensed those 'vibrations' and run away from me.

Yeah, I am working on improving things that I think I want but I lack. Right now, gym + public speaking (I came to see you to reward myself for sticking to about 4 weeks of gym routine). After I accomplish this goal, I'd join some dancing classes as well.

Even if I don't do something explicit to appear 'needy', girls still get it. Just like you said, you get those 'vibrations'. I think most (if not all) girls are tuned to catch these vibrations. So, yes, I also need to work on learning to control this emotional-attachment thing. Any tips? It seems like the only way to mature is by getting over immature silly-mistake phase. That is, by getting burnt again and again till there is nothing left to be burnt. Get my heart broken a few times, if not many.

Girls falling head over heels -- well, right now it's me who falls head over heels (metaphorically speaking, of course). But seriously, I don't want girls to fall head over heels for me or me to fall head over heels for them. I just want to be the fun guy you sleep with and then get over him in few hours. I want to be able to easily move on and I want the girl to be able to move on too.

I think Asian women may be different. They aim to please the man not to control him. They expect him to be a man & take control, and be a provider.

Regardless of culture, most (if not all) girls will enjoy company of a smart, confident, fun, entertaining guy. Besides, I am not trying to position myself as future husband, long term boyfriend material kind of guy.

 

[hapkido]

With this goal in mind, my single biggest problem with girls, right now, is not fear of rejection but getting emotionally too attached to her. I guess, you could say, getting emotionally too attached to target of practice.

You have taken the 1st critical step towards addressing your emotional attachment issue. Being aware and honest with yourself. It's not suprising given your social development maturation with females. Many have gone through this.

You know the answer to your problem. It's about control and management of your emotions to please and demonstrate your enthusiasm obsessively. No one can teach you and it comes from within you. It takes time and the ultimate behavorial change will arise when the "pain" is unbearable. Pain meaning continuing disappoitment and loss of opportunities of developing relations with a someone who you want to be with.

A good dear friend of mine was in that situation and it took him many many years to snap out of that rut despite knowing his issue. Not only was his mental make up was defined by the traditional romantic image and gestures portrayed by Hollywood but he harboured insecurities despite many ladies with 1st impressions commenting he was a fabulous catch. He had many opportunities but simply just couldn't "close the deal" or maintain "the deal" to be meaningful. He tried to make up for his insecurities by subconciously obsessing to impress upon his caring and adoration for her. Many of these girls were the wrong fit for him he soon learned afterwards. He was in love with being in love.

 

[FortunateOne]

Since you know what you can be like, make sure any and all first, second, third dates are day time dates: coffee, ice cream, breakfast, lunch, walk, Playland, movie matinee, etc. Altho you mention meeting with harmony that you both know what is expected, so does a woman who is asked out to dinner. She knows what men are after with a dinner date, so is especially less likely to want to go on one when she doesn't know you well enough to know if you can be trusted into her home, for example let alone into her bed. Keep that in mind when making your arrangements; the world can be a scary place for women, so one or two little things can make both of you more comfortable.

Gifts on a first encounter are too much, but a single flower isn't. Giving her space after the first date is also a good idea. Don't try to arrange something too soon, but if you are interested in more let her know you'll call her to do something that you both talked about during the first date. Dating is about getting to know someone, to see if you have enough in common to pursue more encounters.

It is not possible to get too emotionally attached to someone you don't even know, so you might be confusing physical attraction with emotional attachment. This confusion will probably go away after you get to know someone better, because they will no longer be that idealized version of what you need they will be themselves, who may or not be someone you actually want to spend time with lol.

 

[mimi]

Always remember that your body is driven by needs and desires that are hidden from the part of your brain that imagines itself "in control".

The equation is simple: the purpose of attraction is to discover the appropriate recipient for your genetic material...the purpose of sex is to deposit it...the ensuing bond fosters the partnership which will raise your offspring to continue the cycle.

You obviously are the product of a two parent family who invested much in your development. You are imprinted with this. The fellows who you envy, carefree and flippant in their sexual mores, are perhaps more or less products of homes with less stability, who knows? Perhaps they are the insecure ones, fearing commitment having been imprinted with a less than stellar family experience?

It is not a 'bad' thing at all to have the ability to nurture and form lasting relationships, but, I would think it abominable to deliberately entice a woman into a relationship with the intention of dumping her soon after. It sounds as if you are going after the wrong sorts of women, and perhaps you don't have the 'radar' to detect the right sorts...the man who is a professional womanizer knows exactly who the right sorts are.

Harmony is right on the money....and if sps are out of your price range, there are always women waiting in bars to exchange some company for a few pints...

 

[Harmony-bc]

When I was a teenager, I was so boy-crazy. I was in and out of love a couple times a month, lol. I think because of your lateness to the dating game. You are just going through relationship puberty, so to speak. My first long term relationship, we were both obsessed, spent every minute of every day with eachother, and on the phone with eachother, when we weren't together. From the day we met, til the day we broke up. It was a very drama filled year and a half, when I was 19-20. Omg the heartache, lol.

 

[magicmystery]

You obviously are the product of a two parent family who invested much in your development. You are imprinted with this. The fellows who you envy, carefree and flippant in their sexual mores, are perhaps more or less products of homes with less stability, who knows? Perhaps they are the insecure ones, fearing commitment having been imprinted with a less than stellar family experience?

Harmony is right on the money....and if sps are out of your price range, there are always women waiting in bars to exchange some company for a few pints...

True. I am a product of two parent family and so is all of my peer group. I don't have any close friend who has had less than stellar family. That said, some guys in my group (who have had very similar upbringing) are good with women and some (me) aren't.

When I was a teenager, I was so boy-crazy. I was in and out of love a couple times a month, lol. I think because of your lateness to the dating game. You are just going through relationship puberty, so to speak. My first long term relationship, we were both obsessed, spent every minute of every day with eachother, and on the phone with eachother, when we weren't together. From the day we met, til the day we broke up. It was a very drama filled year and a half, when I was 19-20. Omg the heartache, lol.

That's probably it.

You know the answer to your problem. It's about control and management of your emotions to please and demonstrate your enthusiasm obsessively. No one can teach you and it comes from within you. It takes time and the ultimate behavorial change will arise when the "pain" is unbearable. Pain meaning continuing disappoitment and loss of opportunities of developing relations with a someone who you want to be with.

Yep. Control and management.

I only have half a personality (educated/geek/decent job/great parents (family support)/limited sphere of interests). The other half (social skills, humour, interest in other things as sports, music, etc, ability to make small talk, dance etc) is very lacking, not completely missing though.

I don't think I am an insecure person in general. But I may be (subconsciously) - I don't know. It seems as I make up for these deficiencies and acquire personality traits, I'd get better. Meanwhile, as you said, I'd have to bear through the painful period of continued disappointment, lost opportunities.

 

[hapkido]

I don't think I am an insecure person in general. But I may be (subconsciously) - I don't know. It seems as I make up for these deficiencies and acquire personality traits, I'd get better. Meanwhile, as you said, I'd have to bear through the painful period of continued disappointment, lost opportunities.

Then you are much further ahead than my friend and it's about only maintaining control of your emotions and seeking the right girl who can appreciate you for what you are. I know it's easier said than done.

 

[Harmony-bc]

Then you are much further ahead than my friend and it's about only maintaining control of your emotions and seeking the right girl who can appreciate you for what you are. I know it's easier said than done.

Exactly!

One night stands aren't all that great. If you want easy sex, see sps. Save yourself the heart ache. In the meantime, sps, can take some of the sexual tension away. Then you can relax a little and enjoy girls for the wonders, they are.

I have friends that seem to be able to just freely have sex with whom ever they want to. I can't do that. I need to be friends with someone before I sleep with them. For me its about respect. If I am being paid, I am in control, it is a business transaction. Other ways, I would end up feeling used and cheated, its not for me.

Not everybody can be a slut. lol

 

[moi]

I think Asian women may be different. They aim to please the man
not to control him. They expect him to be a man & take control,
and be a provider.

this is true.


To the OP: Join some clubs, I don't know how old you are, but look at JCI. It's an international group of people of ALL ages in business and the like. I'm not remotely interested in business at all but I join just to get out and meet people and get active. Partake in activities and eventually it will come to you.

For the record, some girls LOVE geeks. For me, they are my fetish

 

[magicmystery]

this is true.


To the OP: Join some clubs, I don't know how old you are, but look at JCI. It's an international group of people of ALL ages in business and the like. I'm not remotely interested in business at all but I join just to get out and meet people and get active. Partake in activities and eventually it will come to you.

For the record, some girls LOVE geeks. For me, they are my fetish

Interesting idea. I am under 30. Finished grad school not too long ago. You can guesstimate my age with that!

Although, I am a geek, I don't think I give geeky vibes anymore. I could be wrong though. Harmony can probably second me or contradict me on that.

Then you are much further ahead than my friend and it's about only maintaining control of your emotions and seeking the right girl who can appreciate you for what you are. I know it's easier said than done.

Yes, maintaining control is the key and single biggest hurdle right now. It too shall be conquered.

 

[hapkido]

Here is a suggestion. Every time you feel that urge of being a hopeless romantic, do the George Castanza move on one of the Seinfield episodes where he forces himself to do opposite of what he would normally does naturally. That episode was hilarious. I recall the women were all hot for him after! LOL Just don't over do it and let the pendulum swing too far the other way.

 

[Harmony-bc]

You are not geeky at all, (cute, actually). When you become more comfortable with women, you will make some one a fantastic lover, because you are in touch with how you feel, (also a nice dresser, geeks don't know clothes, lol) and you are able to communicate. Just the fact that you wrote this post, and your responses, show that you are steps ahead of some men that are decades older. I personally fall hard for confidence, romance, and chivalry, and I consider my self to be a feminist, well actually a humanist.

Stop being jealous of your emotionally shallow friends.

Give yourself time to grow, learn, and experiment.

 

[festealth]

Like everything you learn from school, trial and error. Then you make your corrections/adjustments.

Nobody likes rejections or whatever, but it's just a part of life.

Security vs Insecurity.... it's all about confidence. You feel more "secure" as your experiment more. Crash, burn, rinse, repeat.