Dynamics Changing in the industry -- let's discuss.

[Smilf]

Quite a few ladies have been talking about this, including myself and hopefully we can have a productive and civilized conversation about it. We've been noticing a lot of dynamics changing and it's not just about where we advertise or how we advertise, but it appears that the forbidden is now becoming the "norm" in terms of requests.

For instance we've been seeing a lot more BBFS requests, more drug related requests, more trade/exchange requests and more reduced rates in a certain market - ie: the other day I saw a special for $29.00 body slide.

I remember a few years ago, that when people were making inquiries, the first questions were, do you have pics and do you have a web site?

I also know the economy is not that great any more and ladies are reducing rates, which as you know can sometimes bring in less desired clientele and on the other end of the spectrum makes some of the good clientele be leery of her services and may as go so far as to assume that she has some "bad habits".

For the longest time I put off having a web site, as did a lot of ladies, because once you have a web site, that information is there for the rest of your life (since it's logged in the wayback machine internet archive).. now a lot of guys don't even take the time to read it and seriously get irate, when you point them in that direction.

Now with all that said, I'm NOT complaining, I'm just informing you all of what we're seeing on our end and want to have a PRODUCTIVE discussion on this subject, so we can all be HAPPY at the end of the day. I LOVE my clients and am grateful for ALL of them, good and bad, because they've helped me pave MY LIFE and MY future, not to mention my children's futures too. So I don't have anything to be ungrateful for. I have LITERALLY, paid for 4 university educations through this industry, which is a lot of damn money, when I've stopped and thought about it, not to mention enjoying a lot of things other people would normally not be able to do.

But I'm asking you all to please give some desired input and not turn this into something it's not mean't to be.

 

[myselftheother]

Quite a few ladies have been talking about this, including myself and hopefully we can have a productive and civilized conversation about it. We've been noticing a lot of dynamics changing and it's not just about where we advertise or how we advertise, but it appears that the forbidden is now becoming the "norm" in terms of requests.

For instance we've been seeing a lot more BBFS requests, more drug related requests, more trade/exchange requests and more reduced rates in a certain market - ie: the other day I saw a special for $29.00 body slide.

I remember a few years ago, that when people were making inquiries, the first questions were, do you have pics and do you have a web site?

I also know the economy is not that great any more and ladies are reducing rates, which as you know can sometimes bring in less desired clientele and on the other end of the spectrum makes some of the good clientele be leery of her services and may as go so far as to assume that she has some "bad habits".

For the longest time I put off having a web site, as did a lot of ladies, because once you have a web site, that information is there for the rest of your life (since it's logged in the wayback machine internet archive).. now a lot of guys don't even take the time to read it and seriously get irate, when you point them in that direction.

Now with all that said, I'm NOT complaining, I'm just informing you all of what we're seeing on our end and want to have a PRODUCTIVE discussion on this subject, so we can all be HAPPY at the end of the day. I LOVE my clients and am grateful for ALL of them, good and bad, because they've helped me pave MY LIFE and MY future, not to mention my children's futures too. So I don't have anything to be ungrateful for. I have LITERALLY, paid for 4 university educations through this industry, which is a lot of damn money, when I've stopped and thought about it, not to mention enjoying a lot of things other people would normally not be able to do.

But I'm asking you all to please give some desired input and not turn this into something it's not mean't to be.

Totally agree. Safety is first and formost, and there's a bit of an ick factor...remember boys, there's your health to think of, and of our fave ladies as well, professional and civilian....right? BBFS? Shake yer head, the big one...

 

[VanessaofBC]

With hard-core porn just a click away, one entrepreneur is crusading to show sex in a softer light.

VIDEO: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/make-love-porn-movement-gaining-popularity-19452710
WEBSITE: http://makelovenotporn.com/

This video and website gives us an idea of why things are changing. And I believe it has more to do with the way sex is introduced to children these days and it is mostly in the source of onlione pornograhy.

I think that may be a small part as to why we are seeing such wide spread change with sexuality, our industry falls into that category. There is a part in the video where two young "tweens" discuss their first time seeing hardcore pornographic sex.

 

[twelvetwentytwoam]

Honestly Smilf, everything you just described does not happen exclusively in this industry. I'm in sales and we have clients that act exactly like the ones you just described. The don't do their research, they expect everything for nothing, they think they're always right because they're the ones paying money. It occurs in every industry with some sort of provider-client relationship. But on the flip side I also have great clients that I just "click" with and I am willing to go the extra mile to help them out even if you gain nothing from it except maybe a good repeat customer. I'm sure you can agree with me on that.

In terms of BBFS, I think anyone who requests or offers it should be thrown in jail. It has absolutely no place in this hobby. It's just irresponsible and selfish to the rest of us who did not consent to being exposed to dangers that some people so ignorantly take.

I never decide on a SP solely based on prices. Partly because I'm pretty financially secure and partly because I believe in value more than just spending less. When I see an ad on BP for some crazy girl doing a $/hr special, I know if I go for it I'm probably going to get robbed when I get there or I'm going to get the worst service ever. Yet there are men who will go for it and then complain on boards later on about how they got robbed or got the worst service ever (I'm not getting on anyone's case about getting robbed. Just saying when it sounds too good to be true it probably is.) So to respond to your point about reduced rates in a down economy; yes SPs will have to adjust their prices according to economic conditions or how other SPs are setting prices. However, my point is if you are confident about the quality of the service you provide, then why sell yourself short for lack of a better expression (seriously though no pun intended ). The good and smart clients will continue to see you regardless. At the same time you weed out the cheap asses and the undesirable clientele.

To me, not only am I willing to pay more for genuinely good service and attitude, I'm paying for a peace of mind that the lady takes care of herself in her personal time and that she's not some crack whore trying to score her next fix or giving some dude BBFS for an extra 100. Safety, that in itself is priceless to me.

 

[Smilf]

I never decide on a SP solely based on prices. Partly because I'm pretty financially secure and partly because I believe in value more than just spending less. When I see an ad on BP for some crazy girl doing a $/hr special, I know if I go for it I'm probably going to get robbed when I get there or I'm going to get the worst service ever. Yet there are men who will go for it and then complain on boards later on about how they got robbed or got the worst service ever (I'm not getting on anyone's case about getting robbed. Just saying when it sounds too good to be true it probably is.) So to respond to your point about reduced rates in a down economy; yes SPs will have to adjust their prices according to economic conditions or how other SPs are setting prices. However, my point is if you are confident about the quality of the service you provide, then why sell yourself short for lack of a better expression (seriously though no pun intended ). The good and smart clients will continue to see you regardless. At the same time you weed out the cheap asses and the undesirable clientele.

Well I do know that everything is not exclusive to this industry, nor was it my intent to claim that and I don't think I was.

However, the combination of the aforementioned is related to this industry.

$29 for a bodyslide - oddly nobody has addressed that - big FACTOR right there, when you've got 100's ladies in a certain niche advertising that, sorry we can not compete with that, we're not here for a short time and exchanging our money for big bucks in a "home country".

BBFS - on the increase VERY large and ladies are offering it, otherwise it wouldn't be for sale, are we gonna offer it? Hell NO, but there are some out there that are and it's on the increase as well.

Drug Dealing - the typical stereotype of SP's and drugs - I get about 15 inquiries a week about drugs at the minimum, despite that it states on my web sites and in some ads that I do not partake in the use of drugs. You can't save money for 4 college educations and fund another business start up aka prepare for the future being a crack or meth, just don't work that way.

WHY does everyone assume that the quality of ladies on BP is crap? When a lot of ladies from here that are well reviewed advertise on BP too (including myself), harder to find my ad though, since I can't use my name or say what my talent is due to censorship and reality is after you've been an advertiser for so long via one method, you've got to expand your advertising resources.

You guys also have to remember too that a lot of our customers don't know what review boards are so although some value our services etc. a lot of them don't get it, because they don't fully understand it and don't participate in the hobby enough to fully get it.

 

[twelvetwentytwoam]

WHY does everyone assume that the quality of ladies on BP is crap? When a lot of ladies from here that are well reviewed advertise on BP too (including myself), harder to find my ad though, since I can't use my name or say what my talent is due to censorship and reality is after you've been an advertiser for so long via one method, you've got to expand your advertising resources.

You guys also have to remember too that a lot of our customers don't know what review boards are so although some value our services etc. a lot of them don't get it, because they don't fully understand it and don't participate in the hobby enough to fully get it.

I'm not saying girls on BP are crap. From where I'm from BP is just about the only place to find SPs. There's only a handful of locals in my town and most of the traveling girls do not advert on any boards. I am however pointing my fingers at those notorious BP scammers and those advertising with unrealistically low prices and then upsell or just simply shit service. If you ladies want to blame someone for the bad perception some of us have on BP girls, there you go.

As far as those you mentioned that only occasionally dabble in the hobby or those who just don't do research at all and let their dicks do their thinking for them, well that's just too damn bad. I get it if you're TOFTT and you got screwed over. Kudos to you for taking the hit for everyone. But if you don't do your research and expect everything to go well? I wish you luck.... Can't really feel sorry for those guys and their horror stories.

 

[Cock Throppled]

Well I do know that everything is not exclusive to this industry, nor was it my intent to claim that and I don't think I was.

However, the combination of the aforementioned is related to this industry.

$29 for a bodyslide - oddly nobody has addressed that - big FACTOR right there, when you've got 100's ladies in a certain niche advertising that, sorry we can not compete with that, we're not here for a short time and exchanging our money for big bucks in a "home country".

BBFS - on the increase VERY large and ladies are offering it, otherwise it wouldn't be for sale, are we gonna offer it? Hell NO, but there are some out there that are and it's on the increase as well.

Drug Dealing - the typical stereotype of SP's and drugs - I get about 15 inquiries a week about drugs at the minimum, despite that it states on my web sites and in some ads that I do not partake in the use of drugs. You can't save money for 4 college educations and fund another business start up aka prepare for the future being a crack or meth, just don't work that way.

WHY does everyone assume that the quality of ladies on BP is crap? When a lot of ladies from here that are well reviewed advertise on BP too (including myself), harder to find my ad though, since I can't use my name or say what my talent is due to censorship and reality is after you've been an advertiser for so long via one method, you've got to expand your advertising resources.

You guys also have to remember too that a lot of our customers don't know what review boards are so although some value our services etc. a lot of them don't get it, because they don't fully understand it and don't participate in the hobby enough to fully get it.

In every industry and every business I've been involved there will always be people willing to provide services or products for less. There will always be people who will undercut. Sometimes they have other jobs that subsidize what they are undercutting. Sometimes they have other resources. Sometimes they are desperate and will accept anything. Sometimes they want to keep a hand in the business so they aren't forgotten. Sometimes they are part of a larger operation and can afford to take less. Sometimes it's loss-leading to put competitors out of business. Whatever the reason it is always present.

Re BBFS - more cases of other STD's are increasing in the straight and gay communities because there isn't the fear of HIV with better treatments. Another factor is the number of under-educated Asian providers who think they can get a vaccine against HIV, or there is a pill they can take either to protect them or cure them. I have actually been told this by an Asian provider. It is common thinking in China. Add in the hold gangs, drugs or traffickers have over some SP's and they may be required to provide this service if a customer asks for it. I don't do BBBJ's, but almost everyone on this site seems to think it should be normal from every provider they see.

Vancouver is awash in drugs and a lot of people are regular or casual users. Trading services for drugs is again common in a number of businesses. We have had those offers because we deal in the entertainment industry. Stupid way to do any business, but bartering does happen.

Customers have varied tastes and you have to remember that the guy who is willing to pay $300 for quality might also like to slum it and see the $20 crack ho for variety. Guys that willingly use condoms can also go out and get bbbj's from male street partners in a back lane or indulge in bi sexual activity.

 

[D12]

In regards to things changing when I first started seeing girls bbbj was never advertised this was about 7 years ago now. In regards to more guys asking for BBFS in other places not BC it's almost advertised I have seen lots of ads in a Alberta and Ontario where the girls ad clearly says no restrictions so guys see this and think every sp offers it.

 

[Smilf]

In regards to things changing when I first started seeing girls bbbj was never advertised this was about 7 years ago now. In regards to more guys asking for BBFS in other places not BC it's almost advertised I have seen lots of ads in a Alberta and Ontario where the girls ad clearly says no restrictions so guys see this and think every sp offers it.

Sorry D12, but with number of guys I've got on my blacklists for BBFS and the number of ads we see pop up on CL and BP, it's pretty bad here too.

 

[yazoo]

I would think that putting "absolutely no bbfs" in an ad would be a selling point. You would be more attractive to the customers you want to get, and less attractive to those who you want to stay away.

And as for the $29 bodyslide - is it just a loss leader like a massage? The HJ, BJ or FS afterwards costs a lot more.

There are some amazing providers who could charge a hell of a lot more than they do but they choose not to. I'm sure that they know that they could charge more. And for those of us where money is tighter, believe me it is appreciated. Setting a high price is a choice; providing a decent service at a decent price is commendable.

I don't see the sky falling. Yes there is a lot of choice, but like videos on YouTube it is a lot of work to sort through all the crap to find the ones that you like. Once you find an independent or an agency that you are comfortable with, you are likely to stay there.

The sex industry is very similar to the restaurant scene. At the high end there are well decorated places with primadonna chefs who sometimes serve incredible food. There's also fake high end - glass and chrome places that charge the sky high prices yet don't deliver. And yet some rich people will go because they NEVER go to inexpensive places and mix with the riff-raff.

At the low end, there are the greasy spoons with dubious kitchens that often turn out amazing food as well. Excellent value - if you don't mind sitting at a formica table. But then again you never know whether you'll be spending the rest of the day in ER.

And then there are the small ethnic and family restaurants - where the food is often of varying authenticity, but is usually solid good value.

There are restaurants at every level that thrive. The formula for each is the same - target your market and exceed expectations.

Back in the SP world - some providers my choose to exceed a customer's expectations by offering a very low price. All the power to them. They should never be criticized or ostracized for competing. Others exceed expectations by providing stellar service at a reasonable price.

I've had amazing service in this town, and also pretty mediocre service also. And sometimes high-price maps to low-quality and low-price maps to excellent-quality.

On the subject of websites, I almost never go to them. Every website is a little like a new computer program; you have to figure out how to use it. Sites like ERSlist are so much easier. There used to be one where you could filter by price, location and services - but sadly it is gone. That kind of site benefits both client and provider as they both get exactly the match that they want.

 

[normisanas]

When the money's really good,
when you can just work out of your own home,
when you don't need special equipment to do your job,
when you don't have to be intelligent,
when you don't have to speak English,
when you don't need any education,
when you don't need any training.....

Then there will be a flood of people doing that work, and it will be a fight for the lowest dollar and the most service. That's why prices are falling and bbfs is being offered. Too much competition and too easy to get into the job market.

It should come as no surprise, unless you've been asleep or holed up in your own little world.

The question should not be why bbfs is being offered and why are prices falling.

The real question is why it didn't happen a lot sooner? What prevented it from accelerating since CL, BP, ERS and immigration opened up a decade ago?

 

[Smilf]

Personally I don't check other providers ads, pricing, menus, or specials. I don't feel it's my business what another provider charges for her services or what services she offers, as it's not affecting my business. Maybe her expenses are lower .. who knows. If my phone stopped ringing maybe I'd feel differently. With regards to bbfs there's plenty of 'no restrictions' ads in Ontario too .. but we'd be fooling ourselves if we thought nobody indulged in bb with their significant others or even on civilian pick-ups. We simply have to protect ourselves carefully as we will never know where our client was previously.

It's not a matter of checking out other ladies prices, when you go to place your ad and their ad is at the top of the list, you can't help but notice it. I don't care what other ladies charge as a general rule, as you said, it's none of my business and the same applies to me, as I have another business to run, hence why my post count is very low on boards.

 

[Man in Submission]

When the money's really good,
when you can just work out of your own home,
when you don't need special equipment to do your job,
when you don't have to be intelligent,
when you don't have to speak English,
when you don't need any education,
when you don't need any training.....

Then there will be a flood of people doing that work, and it will be a fight for the lowest dollar and the most service. That's why prices are falling and bbfs is being offered. Too much competition and too easy to get into the job market.

It should come as no surprise, unless you've been asleep or holed up in your own little world.

The question should not be why bbfs is being offered and why are prices falling.

The real question is why it didn't happen a lot sooner? What prevented it from accelerating since CL, BP, ERS and immigration opened up a decade ago?

Ouch. I somewhat get what you're saying, but it's still insulting to all the fine ladies on here. Maybe there is a market for the type of lady you described, but it shouldn't impact the higher end, established ladies, who put a lot of time, effort and resources into what they do - before, during and after sessions. And as one poster mentioned earlier, I'd think common-sense, normal guys would rather pay more for the safety, trust and peace of mind. And from both sides, you can't put a price on your health.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

When the money's really good,
when you can just work out of your own home,
when you don't need special equipment to do your job,
when you don't have to be intelligent,
when you don't have to speak English,
when you don't need any education,
when you don't need any training.....

Then there will be a flood of people doing that work, and it will be a fight for the lowest dollar and the most service. That's why prices are falling and bbfs is being offered. Too much competition and too easy to get into the job market.

It should come as no surprise, unless you've been asleep or holed up in your own little world.

The question should not be why bbfs is being offered and why are prices falling.

The real question is why it didn't happen a lot sooner? What prevented it from accelerating since CL, BP, ERS and immigration opened up a decade ago?

well if this is what you think it takes to do our job you'd really be terrible at it. Just sayin'

Ouch. I somewhat get what you're saying, but it's still insulting to all the fine ladies on here. Maybe there is a market for the type of lady you described, but it shouldn't impact the higher end, established ladies, who put a lot of time, effort and resources into what they do - before, during and after sessions. And as one poster mentioned earlier, I'd think common-sense, normal guys would rather pay more for the safety, trust and peace of mind. And from both sides, you can't put a price on your health.

i don't think you folks are comprehending what normisanas wrote

the way i read it, he is simply saying that certain things are not necessary - and he's right, they aren't. nowhere did he say or imply that all escorts fit that description

 

[Smilf]

Honestly it's not that easy, some guys project a certain image on the phone or via text or email and boom when they're there it's a whole different story. Plus the number of asshats phoning in a day dampens your mood. Some ladies just end up shutting their phones off, not because they're poor sports about it, but because that's just what they do. I've done it too sometimes and probably have missed out on some good clients because of it.

BARTERING is also the new norm .. WHY am I asking for money for my services IF I want to do exchanges? Makes NO sense .. here's an example of my week so far.

$10 for someone to come watch me squirt ( yeah ok, hop on that)
Can you get crystal? - I don't do drugs (says that in my ads and on my site)
Give me 7 mins to lick your ass/watch you squirt for a 32 gig itouch (dislike mac products, so fuck off)
Give you two Taylor Swift tickets in exchange for services .. who the hell is Taylor Swift?
Give you paint job or fix your car in exchange for services .. I don't drive, I ride a bike, take transit or taxi - not because I can't but because I choose not to!

Those are just a few examples .. and moderate one's . I've got awesome reviews, beyond sub par services .. ummm pass!

 

[Cock Throppled]

Bartering is gaining popularity in a lot of areas.

I can see how you don't like it, but it can be mutually beneficial if the barterer has what you need/want.

Services are expensive, it's common to pay $100 an hour and SP's are really giving their time as well as certain expertise the same way a mechanic or house painter might, so why not trade when applicable? We've even seen ads here from SP's offering to trade for a service, so it's not unheard of. You seem to have shut your mind to the idea, others haven't.

 

[google_123]

I agree with everything the OP said.
The dynamics has changed.

It involves a multitude of issues.
1. Sex is more open, more prevalent.
2. Girls exposed earlier
3. Materialistic society where all kids have iphones/ipads
4. Things are expensive in society
5. Girls talk amongst each other, talk about how quick and easy it is to make 200-250/hr versus 10.50/hr at a grocery store/clothing store.
6. Marriage in society is becoming less and less prevalent = more horny single guys with more disposable income and more sexually frustrated females.
7. Internet is making it stupid easy to market yourself.

Take all of this and competition, you have prices lower in certain sectors and more risky activities being offered. I also agree with the bbfs comment. I've also been noticing this increasing.

All in all, more the reason to wrap up.

If there's one thing that is bound to happen if this keeps up. A stronger strain of most STDs.

 

[The Lizard King]

Can't comment specifically on "the industry" as I've stayed away for years but I had a recent semi-regular FWB arrangement with an older UBC student and after about the 10th time she suggested BB, which did not occur. No idea why, it hadn't come up before, but maybe she was just comfortable? And, yes, I'm 100% sure of her student status since it wasn't a one dimensional thing and I ended up cooking her dinner at her place several times opening things up from a personal standpoint and even a bit of mentoring based on my own life and career path. She moved back home to the Maritimes. Too bad. So I guess that was also kind of the barter system at work? Can't imagine what goes through someone's mind with the BB requests but if that's happening on a more frequent basis now, shouldn't you also be extra careful having casual relationships or one nighters since those very same people are obviously "mingling" out there?

 

[Cock Throppled]

Yes, one of the main purposes of bartering is to avoid paying taxes on the sale. Otherwise, just pay cash. Really, how likely is a specific service provider to be in the market at that particular moment for a fellow's product or service? Exactly how many times per week does she need her dwelling painted or autobody work done? I mean, if the idea to barter has just occurred to you, how likely is it that it hasn't occurred to any of a hundred other half-wits in the recent past? A nice salon treatment might be amenable more often perhaps, but those fellows seldom seem to want to visit the ladies.

No, attempting to barter is idiotic in this context. Selling your product / service to someone who wants it for money and giving the lady the money you earned for her service is almost certain to be a transaction that has a better than even chance of acceptability.

What harm is there in asking? If a client has a particularly in demand service or product why not see if bartering is available?

If a client can offer a service or a smart phone/tickets to a hot shw (which quite a few SP's have asked for on this very site) why not see if a deal can be struck? I wonder if smilf has ever asked for a discount on a product. Or if you ever have? Isn't a barter/trade better than asking for a discount?

Not everyone has ready cash, but a lot of people are talented or deal in products that are desirable.

 

[Smilf]

What harm is there in asking? If a client has a particularly in demand service or product why not see if bartering is available?

If a client can offer a service or a smart phone/tickets to a hot shw (which quite a few SP's have asked for on this very site) why not see if a deal can be struck? I wonder if smilf has ever asked for a discount on a product. Or if you ever have? Isn't a barter/trade better than asking for a discount?

Not everyone has ready cash, but a lot of people are talented or deal in products that are desirable.

Not to be snarky, just proving a point .. would you like it if your boss bartered your wage every hour? Probably not!

I'm not the business of bartering ... I'm here to make money, just like you go to work to make money.

There is harm in asking especially if you don't know someone.

I'm retiring, it says that in EVERY on of my ads, I'm leaving Vancouver, says that too, so what good are those things to me?

XNAY = useless.