denied!! supreme court intervenors not allowed to give evidence....

[CJ Tylers]

sadly, their voices would be used as evidence... but only to convict them.

 

[johnsvoice]

sadly, their voices would be used as evidence... but only to convict them.

Not when they voices are stripped of identifying information. People who participated in the Johns' Voice project have never run any risk of having their voices used against them. To the contrary, information from studies like Johns' Voice and Sex, Safety and Security has been used to question the claims that are made that paint all people who purchase sex and all relations between sex sellers/workers and people who pay for sexual services with the same brush.

While I agree with Susi that it would have been nice to be able to present the findings from Johns' Voice in the Bedford case, the case was set up in a way that it was never about the people who pay for sex so there was no space for the submission of any factum that would have drawn upon the Johns' Voice findings/conclusions. In fact, if one actually looks at the transcripts, the facta, the joint applications and the appeals (see John Lowman's Prostitution Research Page) it becomes very easy to identify serious gaps in the way the case was argued (on both sides) and some very powerful potential inroads for further challenges and in the (re)development of Canada's Federal prostitution provisions. This future development is dependent upon the continued ability to put forward credible (empirically grounded and not conducted by advocates to advance a single agenda) research. Such research, when conducted by reputable social and health researchers and when done in accordance to institutional research ethics, generally (but not always) guarantees participants privacy and confidentiality is protected to the full extent permitted by disciplinary ethics (which go far beyond legal protections). A very good example of how researchers who take seriously their commitment to protecting the people that participate in their research can be seen in the current case against Luka Magnotta and the U of O researchers that are going to the mat to protect confidentiality (see here for more details).

 

[Man Mountain]

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2013/05/2...ying-it-should-remain-outlawed-advocacy-group

Selling sex should be legal, buying it should remain outlawed: advocacy group
By Tyler Orton, 24 Hours Vancouver
Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:43:45 PDT PM

(Image caption for image that I haven't included in this quoted post - MM):
Janine Benedet, counsel for Women's Coalition for the Abolition of Prostitution talks about the Supreme Court case regarding Canada's prostitution laws at a press conference in Vancouver, British Columbia, Wednesday May 29, 2013, Vancouver Rape Relief and Women’s Shelter presents the arguments that women’s equality groups will make before Canada’s highest court in relation to prostitution, violence against women and women’s equality. The Supreme Court of Canada is conducting its hearing regarding Canada’s prostitution laws. (CARMINE MARINELLI / 24 HOURS)

Buying sex and pimping must remain a criminal offence while the sale of such services should be legal in Canada, according to a Vancouver advocacy group that will make its arguments next month before the Supreme Court of Canada.

“There is something besides simply criminalizing everyone involved in prostitution … and decriminalizing and legalizing the sex trade so that men are free simply to buy women at will,” said University of B.C. law professor Janine Benedet, who is representing the Women’s Coalition for the Abolition of Prostitution.

The group, which includes the Vancouver Rape Relief and Women’s Shelter, was granted intervener status last month in a Supreme Court case that will rule whether Canada’s prostitution laws are constitutional.

Benedet said the Nordic prostitution model of “asymmetrical criminalization” has made countries such as Sweden, Norway and Iceland unfavourable destinations for johns and human traffickers.

But there isn’t much empirical evidence to suggest that model has been of much benefit to sex workers, according to University of Fraser Valley criminologist Tamara O’Doherty.

She said the lack of social support services in Canada compared to Sweden would make such a system incredibly difficult to implement in this country.

Simon Fraser University criminology professor John Lowman said introducing the Nordic system to Canada would essentially amount to “institutionalized entrapment.”

Police would only be able to enforce the laws against male clients by luring them into situations where women are selling sexual services legally, he noted.

“The Nordic model helps women as long as they want to get out of prostitution,” he said. “But if they don’t want to get out of prostitution, it essentially sacrifices them to a form of a radical feminist ideology.”

I'm sorry but I just can't wrap my head around the idea of how it can be illegal to "buy" something that's legal to "sell."

 

[Nathalie Rose]

It's so fantastic to read this kind of post on here. So much of the social stigma and misunderstanding around this industry is, in my opinion, largely based on negative stereotypes about clients themselves.

I actively promote the Sex Safety and Security survey to my clients in the hopes that the data will have some kind of substantive effect on the future of decriminalization in this country (and internationally).

If more individuals (and I specify 'individuals', because right wing groups like R.E.A.L. women are so stuck in their damaging Groupthink that I lament that nothing will ever change their stubborn minds except the inevitably death of the 120 year old executive director) could understand that clients are their brothers and husbands, I think we would see a great shift in ideology around the issue.

Thanks for posting this.

ps: If you want something to fuel your utter frustration with narrow-minded attitudes towards sex work, check out the terribly researched documentary, Selling Sex. Don't say I didn't warn you...

 

[Smilf]

It’s called Feminism.
Women are always Right/Innocent and men are always Wrong/To Blame.
See how simple it is now?

Oh christ here we go again, this coming from someone who whines about having his time on the toilet interfered with. Yeah you're a real catch. Let me guess, you sit and whine about how your wife has ruined your life in your sessions, so it makes them oh so much more enjoyable.

Play the victim much? Yeah I thought so.

Awww there, there, poor you, your wife cut into your poop time on the toilet, how tragic, I'm so outraged.

Does that make you feel any better?



Vancouver Rape Relief, should have NO place in this what so ever. Having had numerous accounts of first hand experience with them, they are a bunch of feminist nazi's beyond extreme. And recently tried to recruit me to do some work with them because of some previous community service work I have done under my real name for another agency, even though I make it quite apparent I'm pro sex work. Yeah sorry the sad attempts at converting me aren't going to work. And if you mention sex work in the same sentence of abuse it's an automatic "you're being pimped" assumption. They are absolute extremists, I can not stress this enough and we're all just a bunch of sick and helpless bunch of human beings, because we partake in the sex trade industry. And we're all a bunch of helpless poor little victims because of the abuse of men. I'm NO victim, period.

They are also supposed to have an open door policy to all past residents of their shelter, meaning you can go there any time you want or need help, no questions asked. However, we had 3 women test that theory in the last year and it's bullshit. For the past two years, I participated in a group that was supported by a local independent study where we went and stayed in transition houses to rate their over all quality of service to women, NOT one was accepting of a SP who was working in the sex trade, NOT one. So if an SP is being abused, she has to go stay in a shelter and if she has children her options are even more limited and marginalized, only 2 shelters in the entire city of Vancouver accept women and children.

This study came about at a meeting about local shelters and transition houses in the lower mainland, and I brought it up as a problem Susi and I encountered one day when we were phoning around to find a shelter/transition house.

 

[uncleg]

Interesting to see all the concern expressed here, but what are you doing about it ? Recently susi posted a report from a "pooner meeting" https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?182982-Pooners-Meeting-Report and what was the response ? Zip............really everybody agree with everything that was said ? Even if you didn`t come to the meeting, a comment would be helpful. At least there would some indication of support, if any. Comments on this forum is not really coming out of the shadows, but it does let in some light. Do you really want the likes of Janine Benedet and the W.C.A.P. to be the only voices heard ? Most important.............do you want to go back to jerking off in the shower ?

With that........................

 

[Smilf]

You've actually agreed with me whilst taking a shot at me.
If you just want to complain about me, make it a separate post that doesn't validate what I'm saying (us whiners call that logic)
Also, don’t forget to remove me from your Christmas card list.

You are exactly what I think about of when talking about unreasonable feminists that don’t hear what’s being said, they’re just looking for something to take offense to, attack and eventually seek monetary compensation for.

Uh huh! Because you know me oh so well, in the what less than 100 posts I have on this board in 2 years? I'm not a feminist, not even remotely close. I'm what you call extremely SARCASTIC.

 

[freedom5]

The best thing for us is if the Supreme Court reverses the lower courts. We are much better off with the current situation than we are going to be under the laws that Harper will enact. That is a battle we will never win.