Cut or Uncut

bcneil

I am from BC
Aug 24, 2007
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If i ever take up time travel i'll be sure to post the answer here.



So you're saying it's a conspiracy; the scientific research is actually fabricated by order of the Pope or something?

No I am saying people are grasping at straws to validate their religious beliefs. You seriously consider a urinary tract infection a good reason to chop off a newborns foreskin? The simple fact is 99% of parents that have their babies chopped for religious reason or so babies dick looks like daddy



For one act of random vaginal BBFS the risk may not look much different whether doing it circumcised or not, or having sex with a condom. In any case it is going to be extremely small.

But when you look at it over an individuals entire lifetime of decades & thousands of sex sessions things look quite a bit different, especially if they involve relatively risky behaviours. A lifetime chance of 25, 50, 70 or 90% of getting HIV may seem to some people an acceptable rate, while extremely risk averse people would only feel comfortable at something much less than 1%.

Again no parents get their sons chopped for reducing their sons lifetime chances of getting hiv. Parents don't make this decision thinking their son might be some freak who spends his life seeking out bbfs from prostitutes in third world countries. In fact most men have sex with less than 20 different women their entire life. Hardly enough risk to require preventative surgery

In the big picture of nations and continents full of hundreds of millions of people, another picture is painted. For example it has been estimated that millions would avoid HIV infection if circumcision were practiced in Africa.
Or HIV in africa could be reduced much much more if some retard named pope didn't tell them condoms are a sin.
No instead go with the obviously less effective solution of circumcision. I think even you would be aware condom vs circumcision to reduce hiv is pretty obvious.
 

lenny

girls just wanna have fu
May 20, 2004
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The HIV rates in the USA and Africa are among the highest - and something like 75% of adult men are circumcised.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. Are you suggesting this disproves research that has concluded male circumcision reduces the risk of HIV for men while engaging in heterosexual sex?

"In the United States, rates of circumcision are declining and are lowest among black and Hispanic patients, groups in whom rates of HIV, herpes, and cervical cancer are disproportionately high," Golden and Wasserheit note."
http://men.webmd.com/news/20090325/circumcision-cuts-stds

"...the communities with the highest AIDs rates in the US are those that are not circumcised"

"....show me one study that remotely hints that circumcision is a cause of HIV rates in the US. Just one."
 

BORKO

Everything is AWESOME!!!
Jun 3, 2013
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So in biblical times this was done to prevent Hiv or hpv??? :doh:

And if religion hadn't started this tradition, would it be likely at all to recommend this as a preventive medical procedure? :doh:

No its a religious procedure, that people who follow a religion will deny and grasp at straws to validate their beliefs.

Didn't we discuss this months back? In one of your bbfs threads. Where we determined the incredibly low risk statistically for hiv transmission from female to male.
Yet cutting off your foreskin is important for reducing this?
Kinda like buying 3 tickets for the super 7 instead of just 2, now your gonna win for sure :clap2:
Or HIV in africa could be reduced much much more if some retard named pope didn't tell them condoms are a sin.
No instead go with the obviously less effective solution of circumcision. I think even you would be aware condom vs circumcision to reduce hiv is pretty obvious.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. Are you suggesting this disproves research that has concluded male circumcision reduces the risk of HIV for men while engaging in heterosexual sex?

"In the United States, rates of circumcision are declining and are lowest among black and Hispanic patients, groups in whom rates of HIV, herpes, and cervical cancer are disproportionately high," Golden and Wasserheit note."
http://men.webmd.com/news/20090325/circumcision-cuts-stds

"...the communities with the highest AIDs rates in the US are those that are not circumcised"

"....show me one study that remotely hints that circumcision is a cause of HIV rates in the US. Just one."
So... haven't y'all had this conversation already?
 

sbill

Member
Mar 26, 2004
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'toon town
...The foreskin unfolded is the size of a postcard and 44,000 nerve endings...
Was reading and nodding in agreement with you when I came to this! Didya maybe mean postage stamp, or are there some really big foreskins (and appendages!) out there?

Kinda reminds me of the joke of the moyel (sp?) who retired and was given a gift of a wallet made of tanned foreskins. But if you rubbed it it grew into a suitcase ...
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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But when you look at it over an individuals entire lifetime of decades & thousands of sex sessions things look quite a bit different, especially if they involve relatively risky behaviours. A lifetime chance of 25, 50, 70 or 90% of getting HIV may seem to some people an acceptable rate, while extremely risk averse people would only feel comfortable at something much less than 1%.
but you have to admit pardner, that the resident pooners demonstrating those 'relatively risky behaviours', in places like africa and the absolute slums of india, don't view life like we do, and could give a shite whether they catch hiv or not, and certainly won't be adopting ANY of those first world practices like circumcision OR condom use... they just don't think that way

and if YOU or anybody thinks that they can either influence or force them to do so... well, you would be dreaming in technicolour, pardner
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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Or HIV in africa could be reduced much much more if some retard named pope didn't tell them condoms are a sin.
for the most part, people in africa view the pope as the enemy

just sayin'... :)
 

yoshi99

Member
May 1, 2009
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Reasons to get circumsized:

1) Peeling back foreskin to take a pee just sucks! Lots of times there is no water resource in many area like job sites, camping, etc... and if one is to touch their penis, one should wash there hands first. And after. If the foreskin is not peeled back when peeing, then it drips out through the foreskin inevitiably creating an undesirable pee smell that lasts until washed thus also creating unwanted bacteria.

2) If one enjoys having sex for lets say an hour so at a time then the friction of the foreskin rubbing in and out of the vagina swells up the foreskin and creates a very uncomfortable experience and a very swollen cock which will then need to recover for a day or two. Not ideal!


So, in conclusion, if you like to have sex in comfort and you like to keep a clean, pee stench free penis, then you should consider having the procedure.
 

BORKO

Everything is AWESOME!!!
Jun 3, 2013
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Sexy Fun Land
Reasons to get circumsized:

1) Peeling back foreskin to take a pee just sucks! Lots of times there is no water resource in many area like job sites, camping, etc... and if one is to touch their penis, one should wash there hands first. And after. If the foreskin is not peeled back when peeing, then it drips out through the foreskin inevitiably creating an undesirable pee smell that lasts until washed thus also creating unwanted bacteria.

2) If one enjoys having sex for lets say an hour so at a time then the friction of the foreskin rubbing in and out of the vagina swells up the foreskin and creates a very uncomfortable experience and a very swollen cock which will then need to recover for a day or two. Not ideal!


So, in conclusion, if you like to have sex in comfort and you like to keep a clean, pee stench free penis, then you should consider having the procedure.
Uhm, I've never had the painful foreskin feeling from having sex for over an hour? Also I think soap and water can generally keep a penis clean and eliminate pee smell.
 

yoshi99

Member
May 1, 2009
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0
6
When i had foreskin, it was a problem for me. In regards to the cleaning foreskin with soap and water every time one goes pee, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
 

BORKO

Everything is AWESOME!!!
Jun 3, 2013
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Sexy Fun Land
When i had foreskin, it was a problem for me. In regards to the cleaning foreskin with soap and water every time one goes pee, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Yeah, I don't think it is a universal problem of painful sex for all people with foreskins..

I also think it might be a little more important to cleanse your penis with soap and water before you put it inside someone else's mouth rather than every time you pee. I'd think good hygiene is important regardless of being circumcised or not, I don't think sweaty ball smell is particularly appealing either.
 

yoshi99

Member
May 1, 2009
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Perhaps i'm unique that way. Although i am sure that there are others like me.

i've always showered and cleaned myself twice a day before i got circumcised, and after. In my case i feel my penis is much healthier, cleaner and smells better now then before. I know this because it is part of my body. My cleaning habits have remained the same. For me, circumcision made sense and am very happy i went through with it.
 

BORKO

Everything is AWESOME!!!
Jun 3, 2013
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I'm going to add to this thread that I have seen VERY FEW uncut cocks that smell or taste unpleasant...in fact none pop into my mind at the moment. But I have seen MANY smelly uncut cocks, some are really noteworthy too :( Makes me want to switch my restrictions to bbbj/ymmv
One recently had visible residual smegma, it was also the size of my forearm but that's a story for another day.
I'd assume that the stinky penis could all be fixed with a thorough shower? I think if you run into a stinky penis you should simply be able to tell a client to take a shower or expect no oral or CBJ. I don't think I would be offended and if faced with the difference between a BBBJ and CBJ/no BJ and all it took was as shower I wouldn't be offended...

Oh and isn't every service pretty much YMMV?
 

barny-stinson

Banned
Mar 10, 2013
58
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I'm going to add to this thread that I have seen VERY FEW cut cocks that smell or taste unpleasant...in fact none pop into my mind at the moment. But I have seen MANY smelly uncut cocks, some are really noteworthy too :( Makes me want to switch my restrictions to bbbj/ymmv
One recently had visible residual smegma, it was also the size of my forearm but that's a story for another day.
I think that's what you meant.
 

barny-stinson

Banned
Mar 10, 2013
58
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Perhaps i'm unique that way. Although i am sure that there are others like me.

i've always showered and cleaned myself twice a day before i got circumcised, and after. In my case i feel my penis is much healthier, cleaner and smells better now then before. I know this because it is part of my body. My cleaning habits have remained the same. For me, circumcision made sense and am very happy i went through with it.
I shower before sex regardless, but I know what you mean. You can take a piss anywhere you want and not feel dirty afterwards. I take pride in my hygiene and personal decor. Cut cocks don't need a cleansing every 30 minutes to feel clean. I don't regret my decision for a second. Foreskin suck.
 

1nitestan

New member
Jun 18, 2013
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A good read on "TOP 10 WAYS CIRCUMCISED SEX HARMS WOMEN"

http://www.foreskinfunctions.com/

Also:

Circumcision and sexuality
Sigmund Freud (1920) asserted that circumcision was a substitute for castration, suggesting a possible connection between castration fears, neuroses, and circumcision. Documented cases exist of circumcision resulting in a life-impairing level of castration anxiety (Ozturk, 1973). More recently, Immerman and Mackey (1998) described circumcision as "low-grade neurological castration." They argued that the resultant glans keratinisation and neurological atrophy of sexual brain circuitry (due to loss of sensory input to the brain's pleasure centre) may serve as a social control mechanism which produces a male who is less sexually excitable and therefore more amenable to social conditioning.

Indeed, for centuries, circumcision has been used as a strategy to reduce sexual gratification (Maimónides, 1963, p. 609). According to Saperstein (1980), quoting Rabbi Isaac Ben Yedaiah, as well as the empirical findings of Bensley and Boyle (2001), and O'Hara and O'Hara (1999), heterosexual intercourse is less satisfying for both partners when the man is circumcised. Due to the neurological injury caused by circumcision, and the resultant reduction of sensory feedback (Immerman & Mackey, 1998), it is highly likely that circumcision may promote sexual dysfunction such as premature ejaculation, and consequently, also the reduction of female sexual pleasure (cf. Money & Davison, 1983). The possible deleterious effects on social and marital relationships (cf. Hughes, 1990) may be considerable, especially in countries where most men have been circumcised.

Structural Changes
Among the structural changes circumcised men may have to live with are surgical complications such as skin tags, In addition, Immerman and Mackey (1998) and Prescott (1989) postulated that severing of erogenous sensory nerve endings in the foreskin during infancy leads to atrophy of non-stimulated neurons in the brain's pleasure centre during the critical developmental period.

Gemmell and Boyle (2001) surveyed 162 self-selected men (121 circumcised; 41 intact) and found that circumcised men reported significantly less penile sensation as compared with genitally intact men. Participants rated their current level of penile sensation (on a scale from 1 to 10) as compared with that experienced at age 18 years (allocated 10 out of 10). Circumcised men complained significantly more often than did genitally intact men of a progressive decline in penile sensation throughout their adult years--presumably due to increasing keratinisation of the exposed glans and inner foreskin remnant in circumcised men. Gemmell and Boyle also found that a significantly higher proportion of circumcised as compared with intact men reported bowing or curvature of the penis (also reported by Lawrence, 1997), shaft skin uncomfortably/painfully tight when erect, and scars/damage to the penis. Although the frenulum was reported as an area of heightened erogenous sensitivity, in the typical circumcised male, either no frenulum remains or only a small severely damaged remnant exists. The complex innervation of the foreskin and frenulum has been well-documented (Cold & McGrath, 1999; Cold & Taylor, 1999; Fleiss, 1997; Taylor et al., 1996), and the genitally intact male has thousands of fine touch receptors and other highly erogenous nerve endings--many of which are lost to circumcision, with an inevitable reduction in sexual sensation experienced by circumcised males (Immerman & Mackey, 1998; O'Hara & O'Hara, 1999).

So.... snip the skin off, and you might get the pleasure of having skin tags, penile curvature due to uneven foreskin removal, pitted glans, partial glans ablation, prominent/jagged scarring, amputation neuromas, fistulas, severely damaged frenulum, meatal stenosis, and excessive keratinisation. I guess it's 6 of one, half dozen of another huh?
 

1nitestan

New member
Jun 18, 2013
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The size debate cut vs. uncut

That depends on a mans genes and family backround
A:
Actually uncircumcised penises do tend to be bigger. Some people dispute this, but there is a lot of evidence and studies to back it up.
An Australian survey in 1995 showed circumcised men to have erect penises an average of 8mm shorter than intact men.
[1. R. D. Talarico and J. E. Jasaitis, "Concealed Penis: A Complication of Neonatal Circumcision," Journal of Urology 110 (1973): 732-733. 2. Richters J, Gerofi J, Donovan B. Why do condoms break or slip off in use? An exploratory study. Int J STD AIDS. 1995; 6(1):11-8. ]
That 8mm is about a third of an inch, but I know I've seen other places where studies showed it could be as much as 3/4 inch difference between cut and uncut penises. I couldn't find that just now though.
It may be because of the interruption in blood flow the penis experiences after circumcision. It's known that circumcision changes the blood flow, and it's also well known that changing the flow of blood to something can affect its development. Some doctors use this deliberately to block arteries supplying blood to tumers to make them shrink. So why do people have such a hard time accepting that circumcision does this to the penis?
Several feet of blood vessels, including the frenular artery and branches of the dorsal artery are removed in circumcision. This loss of the rich vascularity interrupts normal flow to the shaft and glans of the penis, damaging the natural function of the penis and altering its development. [1. H. C. Bazett et al., "Depth, Distribution and Probable Identification in the Prepuce of Sensory End-Organs Concerned in Sensations of Temperature and Touch; Thermometric Conductivity," Archives of Neurology and Psychiatry 27 (1932): 489-517.� 2. Netter, F.H., "Atlas of Human Anatomy," Second Edition (Novartis, 1997): plates 238, 239.]
 

eeddyy888

New member
Dec 10, 2012
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Richmond, BC
Reasons to get circumsized:

1) Peeling back foreskin to take a pee just sucks! Lots of times there is no water resource in many area like job sites, camping, etc... and if one is to touch their penis, one should wash there hands first. And after. If the foreskin is not peeled back when peeing, then it drips out through the foreskin inevitiably creating an undesirable pee smell that lasts until washed thus also creating unwanted bacteria.

2) If one enjoys having sex for lets say an hour so at a time then the friction of the foreskin rubbing in and out of the vagina swells up the foreskin and creates a very uncomfortable experience and a very swollen cock which will then need to recover for a day or two. Not ideal!


So, in conclusion, if you like to have sex in comfort and you like to keep a clean, pee stench free penis, then you should consider having the procedure.
Your theory doesn't make sense ! Does women have to pull back her pussy lips in order to have a CLEAN peeing according to your way of handling you peeing ?
 

lenny

girls just wanna have fu
May 20, 2004
4,101
76
48
your GF's panties
I didn't say circumcision caused HIV, I said IT DOESN'T PREVENT IT.
Really? Your fallacious "point" would lead to a conclusion beyond circumcision merely being useless in stopping HIV to actually causing it because HIV rates are higher in a couple areas on earth you mentioned where circumcision is higher.

Your foreskin or lack of does not protect or increase your risk of getting HIV.
Let's see. We have the CDC, the WHO, John Hopkins, AAP, the Mayo clinic vs MM's "point". Who to believe? This is going to be a tough decision.

My point was if circumcision prevented HIV why do the USA and Africa have such high occurrences with such high numbers of circumcised men? Circumcision is not the invisible condom it is sometimes touted to be
Your point is at best a weak unsupported theory. Did it never occur to you that the high HIV rates in the USA might be much higher if no one there were circumcised? That the causes of the higher USA HIV rates are factors that may be having their effect in spite of the mitigating effects of circumcision? That circumcision may be preventing many cases of HIV in the USA & Africa?

Your delusive point is like the following argument: in the Catholic Philippines the vast majority are circumcised & condom use is frowned upon, so bareback sex is rampant, yet the reported HIV rate is lower than both Canada and Thailand. Buddhist Thailand has a HIV rate 10 times as high as the PI. In Thailand the vast majority of men are uncircumcised. Therefore circumcision is a strong preventative of HIV transmission.

Your foreskin or lack of does not protect or increase your risk of getting HIV. Whether or not you wear a condom does. The rates are highest in hispanics and blacks because they don't have sex education and healthcare. They are the lowest group of condom users.
Did it ever occur to you that the high HIV rates in Africa are due to a variety of factors like lack of safe sex practices, lack of "sex education and healthcare", dry sex, rampant rape, etc? That the epidemic there might be far worse if no one there was circumcised?
 

lenny

girls just wanna have fu
May 20, 2004
4,101
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No I am saying people are grasping at straws to validate their religious beliefs. You seriously consider a urinary tract infection a good reason to chop off a newborns foreskin? The simple fact is 99% of parents that have their babies chopped for religious reason or so babies dick looks like daddy
I think a "good reason" would be determined after examining all the pros and cons, not just one minor item, namely that the pros were more weighty than the cons.

Again no parents get their sons chopped for reducing their sons lifetime chances of getting hiv. Parents don't make this decision thinking their son might be some freak who spends his life seeking out bbfs from prostitutes in third world countries. In fact most men have sex with less than 20 different women their entire life. Hardly enough risk to require preventative surgery
Even if i was limited to 20 different women for life, I'd rather be circumcised & enjoying bareback sex with them than being uncircumcised & using boring plastic baggies for life. Do you think the lifetime differences between the two for HIV risk would be much different?

Consistent condom use (CFS) that reduced the HIV risk relative to BBFS by 95% would give you a 99.37% chance of not being infected with HIV, having CFS with SP's thrice weekly for 60 years, with a transmission rate of 1 in 2000 and a SP infected rate of 2.79. Under the same conditions the chance of not being infected with HIV would be 94.5% if circumcised & not using condoms.

If he so wishes, the circumcised guy can up that percentage by choosing a safer BBFS partner group or by practicing other safe sex measures such as STI testing, for an example. But if you love condoms, have fun.



Or HIV in africa could be reduced much much more if some retard named pope didn't tell them condoms are a sin.
No instead go with the obviously less effective solution of circumcision. I think even you would be aware condom vs circumcision to reduce hiv is pretty obvious.
I suppose they want to use all the proven safe sex methods that they can to control the epidemic in Africa. Male circumcision would be more effective where the problem is mostly heterosexual, as opposed to the Western world where it is largely a homo, bi(male) & drug user issue, & the rate of hetero HIV infections are very low in comparison. If circumcision will prevent millions of HIV infections, why oppose it?
 

bcneil

I am from BC
Aug 24, 2007
2,097
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Consistent condom use (CFS) that reduced the HIV risk relative to BBFS by 95% would give you a 99.37% chance of not being infected with HIV, having CFS with SP's thrice weekly for 60 years, with a transmission rate of 1 in 2000 and a SP infected rate of 2.79. Under the same conditions the chance of not being infected with HIV would be 94.5% if circumcised & not using condoms.
Again you make no sense. I have a feeling you are just trolling now. As this is comment is just being silly.
Where is your "calculation" for no condoms and uncut?

How many men have unprotected sex with over 9000 prostitutes? You need to use these huge numbers, as thats the only way you can show a any significant difference in infection rates. In your example a 5% variation in risk, over the entire life of a man who sees over 9000 prostitutes. Absolutely ridiculous. Even reducing the number of prostitutes to 900 (using your figures) reduces that 5% variation to .5% or if a man is more modest and sees 90 prostitutes in his life, and 0.05% difference.
And of course a non-pooning male this is even less, statistically moot. As I said before, grasping at straws to defend religious beliefs.


To boil down infection rates in africa based on circumcision is also nonsense. Unless you don't believe there are any other differences between americans and africans. Things like education, poverty, health care, personal hygiene, number of partners.
Its almost like saying white people go to jail less than black people, cause some white people have blue eyes.
 
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