Current Israeli/Lebanese conflict

Current Israeli/Lebanese conflict, how will it end?

  • WWIII, all out NBC war

    Votes: 21 14.6%
  • WWIII, conventional weapons

    Votes: 20 13.9%
  • Contained to the current parties

    Votes: 76 52.8%
  • Resolved through diplomacy

    Votes: 27 18.8%

  • Total voters
    144

rollerboy

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schizo_man said:
what we're seeing here though is polarization, a widening middle ground that fewer nations will go into. n. korea's ally's are not necessarily ally's anymore. Isreal and the Arabian countries are the same. When you see such disruption in the balence of power, it can't be a good thing, can it?
Nah, I'm afraid I don't sense much of a disturbance in the Force.

When the Soviet Union collapsed, now that was a disruption in the balance of power. I'll go out on a limb and say that it could possibly have been a good thing.

North Korea has largely marginalized itself. Its irrational outbursts seem akin to those of a petulant child, upset at being ignored.

The world doesn't strike me as particularly more polarized than I've seen it. The Cold War, that was polarized. Now we've got Russia chairing the G8 summit, negotiating final terms with the US for entry into the WTO, China is one of our largest trading partners.

It's always easy to panic and see the world in the starkest terms. Tensions in the Middle East have surged for the moment, but that's about as shocking as the news that KFC is fattening.
 

rollerboy

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gotsome2004 said:
Israeli politics is influenced by American advisors who think they're dealing with indians of the old west.
I sense a theme here. "Mommy, why do bad things happen?"

"Well, sweetheart, bad things happen because of a bad country called America."

gotsome2004 said:
It's a disgusting and brutal occupation. Of course the Palestinian public will organize themselves into resistance.
The Middle East never knew violence or brutality before the re-creation of Israel.

gotsome2004 said:
The only thing that stands in the way of obliteration of Israel is her military.
And no military power on the face of the earth has ever lasted indefinitely.
No civilization, no religion, no species on Earth, no planet in the galaxy...
 

rollerboy

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dirtydan said:
An Iraqi military force that was far from the shape it was in during the Kuwaiti War. It's like the vaunted military prowess of the US and UK was used to kick the shit out of something that already had the shit kicked out of it.
Gosh. I wonder who kicked the shit out of it, prior to our stumbling upon it? It must have been one tough customer.

dirtydan said:
Who asked the US to invade Afghanistan?
Nobody. Most invasions come without an invite.

dirtydan said:
Who asked the US to invade Iraq?
Now, I may be mistaken but I think in that case we were invited by Saddam. "Come bring your armies. They will burn in a sea of fire and blood!" Some shit like that, I lost the card.

dirtydan said:
The first step for that is for the US to pay its membership dues. In my books a member that sits back boasting about how things should be done and doesn't pay their membership dues is one hell of a bad member to put it mildly. The UN is far from perfect, but so is the rest of the world. I agree the UN should be permitted to do its job.
America has contributed more in dues to the UN than any other nation. But since we're an evil country and all, we should just kick the UN out of NY, and sell the property we donated.
 

Bliss

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The survival of Israel

"Originally Posted by gotsome2004
The only thing that stands in the way of obliteration of Israel is her military.
And no military power on the face of the earth has ever lasted indefinitely."

Israel has actually been getting stronger and stronger.
Not that long ago she had 22 countries officially at war with her. Only a few remain at war, most have given up and will not dare to try it again.
Those countries still at war with her (Syria, Iran) have the U.S. army on their borders. Syria would be finished in a few minutes if they tried anything.
Iran is the most real threat to Israel.

Hizbollah and Hamas can cause tragic bloodshed, but don't pose an existential threat to Israel. They are desparate last 'coughs' of the war against the return of Israel which roots back to the 1920's. If anyone wants to get a good understanding of the current situation look up the history of Amin Al Husseini.
 

dittman

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this is the same iran that fought iraq to a stand still for eight years that it took the u.s to go through is 3 days?

there are quite a few countries that would love to be as broke financially as the u.s

someday im going to get to see this empire everybody says the u.s has.

I woul;d also wish that someone would read a good newspaper and or newsstation like fox instead of the propaganda machine known as the cbc, what hit the ship was a drone, a very large remote control model airplane packed with explosives.

the iranians dont want a direct conflict with the u.s or isreal because the clerics are basically cowards, theyll send other people to die but not them. They have been robbing the treasury for years, and i bet everyone of them have swiss bank accounts kinda like castro, and they know that if they were to throw a nuke towards isreal they understand that iran would be turned into a parking lot with the oil left intact.
 

john23

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The poll doesn't mention: never be resolved.

These people have been fighting each other for thousands of years and most likely won't stop for the forseeable future - unless their respective countries get inundated by the mediterranean when the antarctic icecap melts in 2050.
 

georgebushmoron

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FuZzYknUckLeS said:
Pardon my ignorance but WTF?!!
For example? :confused:
Democracy for China would be a disaster at this point in time. Not enough wealth is there to create a middle class, and a strong middle class is required for democracy to take root and be stable. Democracy would not permit the extremely fast economic growth that it needs, nor would it permit the large scale economic restructuring. A lot of people there are going to have to suffer for the economy to advance out of being essentially agrarian. Many poor countries such as China had to undergo such extreme measures, except the scale in China is 100 times greater (because of their population and size of country). Even where poor countries had democracies that later successfully became industrialized, such as S.Korea, it was beset by 20 or 30 years of authoritarian rule and dictatorial crushing of labor unions and other such events. To say that S.Korea was a democracy even while poor was to say it in name only.
 

The Lizard King

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The repugs can’t lose the upcoming mid-term elections, so… we’ve got Israel setting it up for Bushco to bring some US style democracy to Syria and Iran… plus the exit strategy for Iraq as a nice throw in.
HEY NOW....THAT'S UNSUBSTANTIATED INNUENDO...STOP IT!
 

FuZzYknUckLeS

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georgebushmoron said:
Democracy for China would be a disaster at this point in time. Not enough wealth is there to create a middle class, and a strong middle class is required for democracy to take root and be stable. Democracy would not permit the extremely fast economic growth that it needs, nor would it permit the large scale economic restructuring. A lot of people there are going to have to suffer for the economy to advance out of being essentially agrarian. Many poor countries such as China had to undergo such extreme measures, except the scale in China is 100 times greater (because of their population and size of country). Even where poor countries had democracies that later successfully became industrialized, such as S.Korea, it was beset by 20 or 30 years of authoritarian rule and dictatorial crushing of labor unions and other such events. To say that S.Korea was a democracy even while poor was to say it in name only.
Well put GBM. I agree, a strong middle class is vital for the survival of a democracy. I believe that this is why the U.S. won't succeed in Iraq. That and the ethnic division that democracy introduces. We are already witnessing that effect. But, as for China, their middle class is arguably in the 25% range at this point in time. I would argue that their human rights policies are their single biggest roadblock.
Nevertheless, thanks for steppin' up to bat. ;)
 

JustAGuy

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dittman said:
I woul;d also wish that someone would read a good newspaper and or newsstation like fox instead of the propaganda machine known as the cbc, what hit the ship was a drone, a very large remote control model airplane packed with explosives.
Yes, certainly can't beat Fox and their "fair and balanced" coverage of events. :rolleyes:

dittman said:
the iranians dont want a direct conflict with the u.s or isreal because the clerics are basically cowards, theyll send other people to die but not them. They have been robbing the treasury for years, and i bet everyone of them have swiss bank accounts kinda like castro, and they know that if they were to throw a nuke towards isreal they understand that iran would be turned into a parking lot with the oil left intact.
Certainly no parallel here to the Dick Cheneys and their ilk sending others off to die when they themselves wriggled out of military service during the Vietnam era. And there's absolutely no parallel between regimes that rob the treasury and the U.S. government awarding uncontested contracts to companies like Haliburton that then charge unconscionable prices for the services they provide, ripping off the American taxpayer in the process. Oh wait ... they're only doing what's best for their shareholders, aren't they? Never mind.
 

dittman

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dirtydan said:
This is from somebody that when called on the carpet often resorts to backpeddling by saying you only support certain policies of the Bush administration and the Republicans. Sorry man, but I thinks you got your just desserts above. You bitch about the "blame Bush" mentality but that only makes you a raving hypocrite. How so? You use the EXACT same tactic whenever you throw out that most ignorant of attacks when you say some one is anti-American. In the end be it your "anti-American" or others' "blame Bush" tactics both have become boring broken records thay should be tossed into a the nearest dumpster bin.





An Iraqi military force that was far from the shape it was in during the Kuwaiti War. It's like the vaunted military prowess of the US and UK was used to kick the shit out of something that already had the shit kicked out of it.

Oh yah, LD, why did the US, UK, and its Orwellian named Coalition of the Willing invade Iraq?

No Iraqi connection to 9-11.

No more Iraqi WMD's.

No Iraqi connection to Al Qaida.

So why?



In your world one is required to WHINE when some one's comments are perceived to be anti-American. But let the hypocrisy overflow when it the opportunity arises to sling an Anti-France comment. Hypocrisy is very typical of Republican types.



Is their screaming really any different than your's? If some one ain't in lock step with your views you quickly become a whiner. The intolerance for other views you display is something to see. Of course this is always highlighted by your very broad brush painting of anyone you disagree with as being some kind of leftie. My money is on you really not having any kind of inkling of what a leftie is.



A sweeping generalization if there ever was one.



Who asked the US to invade Afghanistan?

Who asked the US to invade Iraq?




As powerful as the USA is, it is far from being absolutely supreme. The US likely not directly enter the conflict because it lacks the available troops and equipment to do so.



Setting aside the fact the US supported one of the most vile dictatorships during the years since 1953 in South Korea, the presence of US forces is playing a big role from North and South Korea going at each all out again. If you're aching to see maybe hundreds of thousands of people get killed, then championing the withdrawal of US troops from South Korea is one way to do it.




The first step for that is for the US to pay its membership dues. In my books a member that sits back boasting about how things should be done and doesn't pay their membership dues is one hell of a bad member to put it mildly. The UN is far from perfect, but so is the rest of the world. I agree the UN should be permitted to do its job.
1. the u.s pays 25% of the operating budget of the u.n

2.last time i had checked we didnt have to ask anyones permission to take care of business.

3. at least get your facts straifght dd no one in the present administration has ever said nor have they ever implied that there was a link between 9/11 and Iraq. the person who came closest to it was cheny when asked the question if there was a link he said he didnt know.

the facts are that iraq was going to have the sanctions lifted by the u.n within the year, thanks to their well placed bribery of 3/5 of the permanent members of the security concil(sp) the 3 being france, russia and china and to lesser degree germany, so even if they didnt have wmds at the time of invasion which i think is still debateable (see syria) in no time they would have been able to reconstitute them in a heart beat.

Bush naever said there was an imminent dangerfrom iraq but that we must strike before the danger becomes imminent because then it is to late. But that is ancient history.

what i objectect to and i think ld objects to is that everything is the u.s fault or isreal, there was a post earlier that said or implied that the middle east was a peaceful place before isreal was put there, that person is so full of it, he really needs to go back to history class. the reason fopr the crusades is because the muslim hordes invaded isreal and captured jeruselum and butchered alot aof people and those left standing were converted ro islam. so you had the crusades, isant it amazing how that little fact is always left out of the discussion.

by all accounts kerry should have wiped the floor in the 04 elections but democrats being democrats stole defeat from the jaws of victory as they will do in the mid terms all politics are local and if the only thing you have to offer is negativity you will lose. the demos have nothing to offer, they have no platform they dont even give us a reasonable alternative. IMHO
 

dittman

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JustAGuy said:
Yes, certainly can't beat Fox and their "fair and balanced" coverage of events. :rolleyes:



Certainly no parallel here to the Dick Cheneys and their ilk sending others off to die when they themselves wriggled out of military service during the Vietnam era. And there's absolutely no parallel between regimes that rob the treasury and the U.S. government awarding uncontested contracts to companies like Haliburton that then charge unconscionable prices for the services they provide, ripping off the American taxpayer in the process. Oh wait ... they're only doing what's best for their shareholders, aren't they? Never mind.
1. the difference being that our whole militAry is a volenter military nobody has put a gun to their collective head and said you will join, unlike iran of course.(i agree with ld bring home all of the troops from across the globe and lets start taking care of us first. to hell with everyone else)

2. cheny since he has been vp has released his tax return every year.that he has been in office. i take a header on this one and bet the farm that the clerics in iran have never done that. jeez what a surprise.
 

georgebushmoron

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The Usa Should Step In And Wipe Out All The Terrorists Right Now That Means Get Rid Of Hamas. Good Going Israel Crush The Criminal Government Of Lebanon. Time To Nuke Iran Too.
 

rollerboy

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dirtydan said:
The real question for the US mid-term elections isn't so much how many seats the GOP will lose but rather can the jackass party, the Democrats, take control with an effective campaign? Being on the verge of losing is one thing in politics, but if your opponents aren't in shape to exploit your weaknesses, then in the end the losses maybe not all that severe. It might turn out in November the Dems will fail to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
So true. Not much of a choice here. Never underestimate the power of Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Can't really go along with the Democrats plans to pre-emptively surrender to North Korea. On the other hand, it would be nice to punish the general incompetence of the Bush administration, and the total lack of fiscal discipline on the part of the Republican Congress.

I envy those who have that clear conviction that one party is right and true and just, and the other is evil, venal, heartless and corrupt.
 
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Maury Beniowski

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In a nice wet pussy!
Although it befuddles me, I still can't fathom why any surrounding nation in the Middle East would pick a fight with the Israelis. They have their weapons at the ready, and can go into action overnight. Nowadays, they have smart weapons acquired from the Americans, and they can surgically strike any target, and they are doing it. In reality, they are flexing their muscles as a show of force, not for Lebanon, but Iran, and any would be pretenders like Syria that may have designs on bringing mayhem to this theatre.

The Middle East is a contained/controlled drama. Don't expect it to go any further, and don't liquidate your assets either...
 

dirtydan

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rollerboy said:
I sense a theme here. "Mommy, why do bad things happen?"

"Well, sweetheart, bad things happen because of a bad country called America."


The Middle East never knew violence or brutality before the re-creation of Israel.

No civilization, no religion, no species on Earth, no planet in the galaxy...
Huh? The ME didn't know violence or brutality before 1947? To be blunt, bullshit.
 

dirtydan

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rollerboy said:
So true. Not much of a choice here. Never underestimate the power of Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Can't really go along with the Democrats plans to pre-emptively surrender to North Korea. On the other hand, it would be nice to punish the general incompetence of the Bush administration, and the total lack of fiscal discipline on the part of the Republican Congress.

I envy those who have that clear conviction that one party is right and true and just, and the other is evil, venal, heartless and corrupt.
Just thinking of the scores of cruise missiles Slick Willie Clinton had shot off in wads when the heat on him over his "internal BBBJ". When things are going shitty at home, then use the military to create something in another country. I trust Democrats as much as I believe in the Republican platform.
 

nyx

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Chiming in after four pages of commentary...

It is hard for me to understand this insanity. It makes me uneasy, watching the conflict escalate. It makes me laugh hearing America calling for restraint. It makes me sick to hear our prime minister voice his support for Israel after 3 generations in one Canadian family in Lebanon were murdered indiscriminately. I'm tired of the propaganda.

For all the rhetoric of the blue bloods in the $5000 suits at the G8 summit, protected as they were by a security force beyond measure while sipping chardonney and eating mutton, and all the opinions of the talking heads on TV, the news, the radio and the folks on this board, this is what this war basically equates to: dead people. Dead kids. Dead families. Bodies mangled. Grief and blood. Homes destroyed. Children orphaned.

An eight year old enemy of the peace...
A baby terrorist...
Another Lebanese terrorist
This is not a child, it is a casualty of war.

You can have all the rhetoric in the world, it won't matter one iota to the father fishing his child's remains from a scorched crater in the earth.

It's all bullshit. If I could wave a hand and have my way, I would take that shitty little strip of land from both the arabs and the jews and let it go fallow.
 

westwoody

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Don't blame Harper, he is only doing what his boss (W) tells him to.
 

The Lizard King

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3 generations in one Canadian family in Lebanon were murdered indiscriminately. I'm tired of the propaganda.
Too fucking bad. For some time all hell has been breaking loose in the middle east and they were dumb enough to be there? Oh well, they gambled and lost. And what's with all these other fucks over there who's families back here are lambasting the Canadian and U.S. feds for not getting them out of there quicker? Fuck 'em, they shouldn't even be there in the first place and now it's the taxpayer$ problem.

BTW, Israel has been doing the States dirty work for eons...it's about time they got whacked but it won't happen this time. Not yet.
 
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