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Craigslist, cops fight web trade in child sex

susi

Sassy Strumpette
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Winnipeg Free Press - PRINT EDITION

Craigslist, cops fight web trade in child sex
Joining forces to stop online exploitation
By: Carol Sanders

10/07/2009 1:00 AM | Comments: 4
Print E–mail Share ThisTHE Winnipeg Police Service has agreed to work with an online classified advertising service to try and stop the sale of children for sex.

The police and Craigslist are teaming up thanks to a forum on the sexual exploitation of aboriginal women and children hosted by the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs.

"Craigslist is the new kiddie-stroll for men who are seeking to pay for sex with children," said Prof. Benjamin Perrin from the University of British Columbia, a keynote speaker at the forum. "It's free and anonymous and well-known."

"In Winnipeg, there were more than 300 ads (for children and women) in the last week alone," he said at the forum that ended Thursday in Winnipeg.

"I invited the Winnipeg police vice (unit) to join in the Craigslist consultation," Perrin said. "Their input would be appreciated."

On Thursday, Winnipeg police Patrol Sgt. Gene Bowers said the police are aware of the problem and willing to work with Perrin and Craigslist. But the classified service isn't the only problem.

"There's more than Craigslist that have these ads," Bowers said. "But it is one of the most used." Social-networking sites and other online and phone services are also being used to exploit kids, and police are investigating them, he said.

Perrin, a law professor, has studied the problem across Canada and the U.S.

In the U.S., Craigslist brought in preventive measures to identify missing children and stricter filters to verify users' identification.

"They brought the measure in the U.S., but not Canada because there was no interest in working with Craigslist. The attorney general of each (U.S.) state signed on," said Perrin, who was involved in the process.

"Now what we see in Canada is a growing number on Craigslist using it to advertise minors and... what we're told is the numbers in most Canadian cities are spiking."

Police, meanwhile, still have to deal with kids being sold for sex on the street. "It's all a priority," said Bowers outside the AMC forum. "You don't give up."

Manitoba has 75 missing or murdered aboriginal women and children, according to the Native Women's Association of Canada. Some have been sexually exploited and linked to the sex trade.

After the death of Cherisse Houle, 17, whose body was found last week outside Winnipeg, Manitoba shouldn't need another wake-up call, Perrin said.

"The buck needs to stop at the premier's office. It needs to launch a task force on the missing and murdered aboriginal girls and women in this province who are disproportionately targeted."

Perrin said lack of shelter for aboriginal girls is one of the problems.

One Winnipeg agency has six beds and has turned away more than 100 girls since it opened. For a province that has a strategy to deal with the sexual exploitation of youth, there are some gaping holes in the system, Perrin said.

"A few people are responsible -- first of all the men who are paying for this."

Bowers said John School -- for those arrested for solicitation -- can make a difference. The victims of exploitation are usually kids with a lot of problems, including addictions and poverty. The johns exploiting them sometimes don't understand that they are the problem.

"They think they are helping them," Bowers said.
 

jeepjeep

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Jun 10, 2009
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"In Winnipeg, there were more than 300 ads (for children and women) in the last week alone," he said at the forum that ended Thursday in Winnipeg.

What a misleading BS statement. It makes people think there is a huge number of child sex ads, by lumping it with the typical adult ads seen on Craigslist.
 

wet_suit_one

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May 19, 2004
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So I'm curious... Out of these 300 ads, how many are for adults and how many are for children?

I'm just casually browing the erotic services section myself here: http://winnipeg.en.craigslist.ca/search/ers/?query=w4m

And I see nothing clearly indicating "children" as such. Young women to be sure, but children, as in pre pubescent children, no...

Then again, maybe I'm not looking correctly.

I sense some scaremongering myself.

That said, if people have issues with prostitution, well, too bad, so sad. Very legal in Canada, though sex with a minor for money is not.

Let's not make the fact that society doesn't do enough to protect aboriginal women from the dangers they face into a generalized attack on prostitution. As those of here are well aware, the vast majority (?) of indoor sex workers, don't end up dead or missing.

Yes, I've read the reports of a few indoor sex workers who were killed over the last few years, but I've read of at least many familial murder cases where hubby bumped off the wife.

Now, the situation for outdoor sex workers is completely fucked up and dangerous. However, that is a product of our laws and our society. Most sex workers aren't street workers (as best I can tell, given that there are no strolls in my city that I'm aware of, but there are about 50 massage parlours with 2-20 staff members and about 10 - 12 visiting sp's any given week). Toronto has hundreds or thousands of indoor sex workers (as does Montreal and Vancouver). If any of them get killed, we hear about it (as a rule).

As for online trafficking of children, given how many of us are constantly scouring the web for new leads and are among Canada's most learned pooners (if I can say that, which I think I can... Hatrick might know more, but he's one of us after all) and I have never ever heard a hint of knowing where underage sex can be had, I think it is mercifully rare in the world we inhabit.

That said, again, the street is a different story, but street sure as shit ain't Craigslist... Then again, maybe I'm supremely naive...

Bah, my head hurts :(
 

wet_suit_one

Rule by Fear!
May 19, 2004
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Also, if you go to any city in Canada under the exotic services section, you'll find 300 or so ads.

This is news?

Bah! Again, my head hurts...
 

wet_suit_one

Rule by Fear!
May 19, 2004
244
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The other great thing about Craigslist is that cops can call up, send in an undercover, check id's and just up and leave when it's found to be all good.

Then, when underaged are found, then can (in theory at least, and certainly in this province) get them off the street.

How is this a bad thing?

Or am I missing something here?
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
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Jun 27, 2008
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i always worry when they take aim at the sex industry................

it could lead to mass undercover operations and raids a la winnipeg(guns drawn etc) and they will start files on all of us. that's a vice(gang)file, not good for people who don't want to work in this industry forever or maybe do it part time, these kind of intel gathering activities always make me nervous....makes me wonder if our problems with youth on CL could lead to action against us.....

i agree, protect children but in my experience the police seem to be warming up to some kind of action. whether it be about olympics or children you can bet it will be loud and dirty....

also, they seem to be negotiating with craigslist about revising the canadian format, i hope it doesn't affect anyone negatively is all....
 

TheGuy

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Jul 26, 2003
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The police focus their public statements on craigslist because craigslist get the attention of everyone.

When they say Craigslist they make the evening news - otherwise there is less interest.

I assume there are some problems on craigslist but there are clearly 1000's of sites where this happens.

It does happen - there are some sick bastards out there!
 

CaraClementine

Gentlemen Prefer Blondes
I hate to be doom and gloom... and usually I am not one for mass hysteria... but I see this as just the beginning. :( I predict there being a big crackdown on escorts, and there will plenty of stings, just like in the states, and in Albera :(

I sometimes use C.L. but will not be using it anymore. I think it's only a matter of time before the shut the erotic services section down anyway.

The Olympics seemed to have sparked this... and i've always said that the Olympics are not a blessing in this province. It will make everything unbearable for a while - for those of us who have to live close to it! :mad:

I'm all for getting the children out of the industry, and those being exploited - but it's all at cost to the rest of us (SPs), who are of age, and conduct business in a classy and honest manner.

I agree with the poster that said it's a shitty time for a crack down amidst a recession. There are so many more girls on C.L. these days... in part due to media discussions about C.L, and in part due to the recession. Girls are either getting laid off, or just assuming that their won't BE work - so why try.

I got my start in Vancouver, on C.L. but it won't be MY demise (ie getting busted)
 

zeroth

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Oct 1, 2003
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This whole thing really makes me mad. Moral panic that will affect most people who quietly use Craigslist to connect safely and discretely with adults! As a long-time and frequent user of CL, I have never ever connected with a girl who was underage. I have seen ads from girls who might be underage by a few years, but such ads are few and far between. And if a CL user like me hasn't come across underage activity, then it must be very rare.

I saw a clip from CTV where the journalist called a provider from CL and asked if she could prove she was of legal age. She replied that, if he wanted such proof, he should try someone else. This was left as proof that she was indeed underage. But the alternative explanation is that there was no way this girl was gonna show a pooner her ID - basically she wants the right to be anonymous.

Anyway, this just makes me very mad and I hope another site gets the critical mass necessary for us to carry on connecting in comfort and peace with providers of this wonderful service.
 

DB Cooper57

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Aug 12, 2004
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In Winnipeg CL has very little credibility anyway, very few of the reputable ladies advertise on it on a regular basis. It's mainly just the scam artists and local agency's, so if they clean it up the would be doing us a favor! And now that our local LE has made the "big bust" I'm sure they will be basking in the glory of "cleaning up the crime ridden streets of Winnipeg":eek: :eek: :eek:
 

treveller

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Sep 22, 2008
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Harm Reduction

There are supposed to be four pillars to harm reduction. I heard somewhere there is no evidence that the "Enforcement" pillar is effective but it gets 90% of the funding. At the same time there is lots of evidence that the other three pillars work but they get no funding.

Native women in Winnipeg and everyone else along with them may get new police action at huge cost but it is unlikely there will be any more money for shelters or health care.
 

plurmurphy

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I just read the title of the thread and got sick. Child sex is gross and should not be tolerated they should put a stop to that for sure. It is a shame how ever that it is going to hurt other SP's out there who use craigslist. I say this because I have heard they are or were planning on removing the erotic section on craigslist.
 

treveller

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Sep 22, 2008
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What To Do?

Lets say for arguments sake that the Winnipeg Chief of Police sees a campaign against prostitution as a way of getting more money for his budget.

Lets say for arguments sake that there are some Winnipeg city councilors who see a campaign against prostitution as a way of buying votes from simple minded right wing voters.

These people can use the plight of aboriginal women and the problem of child abuse to justify anything they do. This is a threat to SPs across Canada because if it works in Winnipeg, it can work in any other city. It could work in Winnipeg because they are targeting a group of people, SPs, who generally can't stand up in public and challenge the sleazy bastards spouting lies and distortions.

I have a suggestion. SPs across Canada who care could make a donation to the BCCEC or some other trusted group and that group could hire an activist or lawyer in Winnipeg to challenge any sleazy self serving agenda, comments or actions that threaten SPs in Winnipeg or across Canada.

If you can shut it down in Winnipeg then the actors in other cities will be less likely to cause trouble. If they get away with it in Winnipeg then you could be screwed where you live, in Vancouver or anywhere else.
 
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