Courier article regarding brothels

[Gauss]

In an opinion piece in last Friday's (Dec.12'08) Vancouver Courier: "Vancouverites indifferent to plight of prostitutes", Mark Hasiuk presents some "facts" that seem questionable to me.

He claims that Vancouver hosts 65 licensed brothels (seemly referencing Vancouver City Hall, mentioning Mayor Robertson). Within Vancouver proper, I cannot name even 20 licensed establishments that might be conceivably classified as brothels. Perhaps he is encompassing the entire lower mainland?

He also alleges gang control of Vancouver's licensed brothels. That seems unlikely to me. Despite ongoing gang warfare in my part of town, there are a dearth of incidences involving licensed (or unlicensed) establishments. Even the trafficking case awhile ago ( http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=1825d66c-3605-49e0-ba3c-7cf9a22a4f6f&k=5262 ) didn't allege any gang involvement that I can remember. The only potential incident I can remember is the firebombing, many years ago, of the establishment which now houses the Fox Den. Was that crime every solved? (Was it gang intimidation? Or a morality nutcase like the firebombings of Red Hot video outlets?)

However, Mark doesn't seem very astute. He presents these problems as arguments against legalization of prostitution, not acknowledging that the objects of his diatribe present legalization as the first step in solving these exact same problems.

Any opinions? (Or, better, facts?)

 

[FortunateOne]

The 65 number probably found by checking the number of licenses issued, which might be lumped together with agencies. If so, that doesn't sound too high. There are a lot of little out of the way amps, I think, that only advertise in the Sing Tao or Chinese Buy&Sell. Definitely going for a reaction, IMO, if he's using the brothel term. The gang thing may just be an assumption: somewhat questionable Asian business = asian gang or criminal activity for money laundering. Just as likely that an Asian restaurant is set up for this than an mp (probably more likely lol).

There are a lot of mps where no one would believe that but they would have to actually go and interview the owners, managers and workers. Sounds like he didn't bother.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

the Courier opinion piece
http://www.canada.com/vancouvercour....html?id=15053609-8ec5-4fb7-bf61-d9e22147f461

and one of the five letters they printed a few days later in response
http://www.canada.com/vancouvercour....html?id=789f2953-049c-473b-91c2-02b1a1057508

I would agree with the letter writer that the alleged "facts" repeated by the prohibitionists are fabricated or huge exaggerations, as I said in a previous thread.
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=807665&postcount=7

The Ng trafficking charges were a farce.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/....html?id=94d3df47-05b5-4b30-8ad0-a2a8f0e7b9c1

...He claims that Vancouver hosts 65 licensed brothels (seemly referencing Vancouver City Hall, mentioning Mayor Robertson)...

The writer of a 2004 article in Vancouver magazine claimed there were "over 50 licensed massage parlours and health enhancement spas in the city".
http://24.85.225.7/PACE2/docs/pdf/House_Rules_Vancouver_Magazine-April_2004.pdf
http://www.scarlettshouse.com/vanmag01.htm
http://www.scarlettshouse.com/vanmag4.htm

And FWIW, apparently there were 350 massage parlours in the Toronto area five years ago.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2003/12/19/massage_parlours031219.html

Of course there are no legal or officially licensed `brothels` in Canada because of sections of the Criminal Code outlawing common bawdy houses and living on the avails of prostitution. If the Courier columnist was intending to point a finger at the hypocrisy of municipal authorities, that would be his only worthwhile point. The arrangement of tolerating and licensing many prostitution businesses while keeping them officially outlawed is obviously dishonest and has proven corrupt elsewhere.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,21725996-5012936,00.html

I think if more of the media questioned this two-faced system, we would eventually decriminalize the business like New Zealand and much of Australia have already done.

 

[susi]

we have just launched a web site outlining our plans for the coop and safe work site/ brothel if anyone wants to check it out our plans. we are also working with sex workers from across canada to try to pull together an all stake holders conference on these issues here in vancouver before the olympics.

we're hoping to get funding to bring people from all over the country as well as bring some people from places like new zealand to share their experiences with this stuff so we can begin to move forward towards self governance here in canada.

i would welcome any feed back or suggestions.

love susieXXXO

www.wccsip.ca

 

[ChineseDude]

Even the trafficking case awhile ago ( http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=1825d66c-3605-49e0-ba3c-7cf9a22a4f6f&k=5262 )

"This is modern-day slavery. It is a priority of us and [the verdict] doesn't change our commitment in doing two things: Identify the organized crime groups involved in human trafficking and establish a protocol to protect the victims."

pretty pathetic to be called modern-day slavery, the SP is just selling her body for lots of money. I can tell its a hard job, its tough that sometime they don't get respect from pooners. But i bet its better than working a regular job , at least she are selling a service provided by herself, instead of some patented product. These cops are pretty deluded individuals, they be thinking of wearing that little red cape all the time. ahaha saving SP from an asian brothel, thats our job.


Modern day slavery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWV9ekcZF2E&feature=related

 

[susi]

"This is modern-day slavery. It is a priority of us and [the verdict] doesn't change our commitment in doing two things: Identify the organized crime groups involved in human trafficking and establish a protocol to protect the victims."

pretty pathetic to be called modern-day slavery, the SP is just selling her body for lots of money. I can tell its a hard job, its tough that sometime they don't get respect from pooners. But i bet its better than working a regular job , at least she are selling a service provided by herself, instead of some patented product. These cops are pretty deluded individuals, they be thinking of wearing that little red cape all the time. ahaha saving SP from an asian brothel, thats our job.


Modern day slavery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWV9ekcZF2E&feature=related

so true!!
hate the fun police, fear mongers....
we(sp's) do make good money and mostly choose our work...

it is better than many jobs...i work from home, define my own hours, work for myself, set my own wages....

love you guys,

cheers!
susieXXXO

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

The Courier writer and police who say similar things are exploiting inaccurate stereotypes some people may believe simply because they don't know any better. Ignorance helps them. The more the media and the general public know about the real situation, the more they will realize the abolitionist "facts" presented are nonsense pulled out of the air.

Large Canadian cities have hundreds of sex workers, some independent and some working for agencies, incalls, and massage parlours. It should be relatively easy for honest media to look into the real situation, and see that they come and go on their own, like people in any other business, and are not being held against their will as the fiction writers claim.

When police types pretend to go along with the fear mongering, any reasonably intelligent reporter should immediately ask them why they have so much trouble finding the huge numbers of victims they allege. Most of the parlours, agencies, etc., have some kind of advertising that makes it apparent they are in the sex business, and customers have no trouble finding them. A lot of them have some kind of licence issued by city officials, who must know what business they're in. Yet years of "High-profile police raids on massage parlours, escort agencies or brothels haven't yielded a single victim."(link)

Unless they want everyone to believe they're incredibly incompetent, then police findings don't support their own propaganda.

I've read that Global TV will be airing a program next year that had Canadian documentary makers visiting decriminalized brothels in New Zealand.
http://www.canada.com/victoriatimes...5bf3d-e64c-4261-9e00-2656e6650d7d&k=69358&p=1

I hope some of the media here start looking into what already exists in Canada, and talking to real people in the business, instead of just believing what they hear from people like the Courier columnist and the deluded or dishonest police types.