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Conservatives are Just Evil

Homericles

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Oct 5, 2009
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Maybe the Justin Minister should take a page out of the Soviet system and introduce internal passports.......
 

Sonny

Senior Member
Sep 12, 2004
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Harper and his cronies have been in power too, too long.
Seems to me he believes he is infallible and that his views are the only ones that matter.
Power corrupts in many ways... in cronyism, in megalomania, in disdain for the underprivileged, etc.

Whatever the political stripe a citizen may be, even a Conservative, all can readily see that Harper and his gang have got to be kicked out.
I find it refreshing that traditionally Conservative-supporting media is on this government's case for so many of its wayward acts.
Without the checks and balances provided by the Supreme Court, Harper's Canada is a scary place.
 

morementum

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Aug 22, 2012
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They are doing some dumb things to be sure but rooting out foreign funded extreme eco-terrorists groups that really are part of the oil lobby from US trying to stop Canada's development of similar is something I am personally more than OK with. When it has become exposed that Tides out of San Francisco is investing hundreds of millions of dollars, backed by big oil money out of Texas and California, to stop Western Canada development it really pisses me off. Harper and co are doing a shit job on a lot of things but more power to them if they kick out these foreign hypocritical assshats.
 

HankQuinlan

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Sep 7, 2002
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They are doing some dumb things to be sure but rooting out foreign funded extreme eco-terrorists groups that really are part of the oil lobby from US trying to stop Canada's development of similar is something I am personally more than OK with. When it has become exposed that Tides out of San Francisco is investing hundreds of millions of dollars, backed by big oil money out of Texas and California, to stop Western Canada development it really pisses me off. Harper and co are doing a shit job on a lot of things but more power to them if they kick out these foreign hypocritical assshats.
You don't think that the big oil money promoting the tar sands and the pipelines is all Canadian? These are multinational companies, and are getting huge subsidies from our government. When you call the Sierra Club "eco-terrorists" it means you have been sipping the kool-aid.

The Harper government has a history of vilifying anyone who disagrees with their policies; just this week is has been the ridiculous audits of Oxfam and PEN...they might be using too many of their resources for political propaganda, apparently. When do we see that audit of the Fraser Institute or other conservative lobbying groups with charitable status?

Almost everything they have their hands in is a dumb thing -- any policy where I actually understand what they are doing and the consequences of it is wrong. That makes me pretty dubious of all of their other claims about their handling of the economy (where the issues are less clear-cut to my brain). If they are stupid and self-serving in everything that I do understand, why would they be any smarter or serving the public good with their other policies?
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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Harper and his cronies have been in power too, too long.
Seems to me he believes he is infallible and that his views are the only ones that matter.
Power corrupts in many ways... in cronyism, in megalomania, in disdain for the underprivileged, etc.

Whatever the political stripe a citizen may be, even a Conservative, all can readily see that Harper and his gang have got to be kicked out.
I find it refreshing that traditionally Conservative-supporting media is on this government's case for so many of its wayward acts.
Without the checks and balances provided by the Supreme Court, Harper's Canada is a scary place.
yep... can't get much more conservative than i, and even i recognize the signs that they've gone bat-shit crazy on us after not even one full term as a majority

it's an old saying, but, 'absolute power corrupts... absolutely!'

jesus that trudeau makes me friggin' sick to my stomach though :fear:
 

morementum

Member
Aug 22, 2012
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You don't think that the big oil money promoting the tar sands and the pipelines is all Canadian? These are multinational companies, and are getting huge subsidies from our government. When you call the Sierra Club "eco-terrorists" it means you have been sipping the kool-aid.

The Harper government has a history of vilifying anyone who disagrees with their policies; just this week is has been the ridiculous audits of Oxfam and PEN...they might be using too many of their resources for political propaganda, apparently. When do we see that audit of the Fraser Institute or other conservative lobbying groups with charitable status?

Almost everything they have their hands in is a dumb thing -- any policy where I actually understand what they are doing and the consequences of it is wrong. That makes me pretty dubious of all of their other claims about their handling of the economy (where the issues are less clear-cut to my brain). If they are stupid and self-serving in everything that I do understand, why would they be any smarter or serving the public good with their other policies?
You have not only taken the Suzuki kool-aid, your tin foil hat it too tight.
 

chuckertmg

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Mar 12, 2013
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Not Always Sure...
You have not only taken the Suzuki kool-aid, your tin foil hat it too tight.
Look, even traditionally conservative media are voicing the same sort of concerns expressed by HankQ. Your 'counter-argument' here isn't particularly helpful and in fact, this is precisely how Harper handles meaningful enquiries during question period. Don't discuss the issue or debate the problem - that's a losing proposition - just publicly attack the credibility of the person voicing the concern.

I have one request: when the House resumes in September - assuming Harper doesn't quickly prorogue parliament again to avoid debating anything - the Conservatives will have about 16 different meaningful issues to defend. Just watch how they handle it: will they actually debate the issues, or will they respond by launching repeated and vicious attacks on Trudeau and the Liberals, barely giving a nod toward the content of the controversies.

You don't need to bother responding with a personal insult - I'm not seeking your approval on anything. Just open your eyes and watch what they're doing; and at the same time consider what international experts and national law societies are expressing.
 

HankQuinlan

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You have not only taken the Suzuki kool-aid, your tin foil hat it too tight.
I assure you that I am cynical about all politicians and many NGOs -- but I would take the credibility of the Sierra Club and David Suzuki over the Koch brothers or Ezra Levant any time. And where do you get the idea I am a supporter of conspiracy theories? The science-denying, religion-appealing, corporation-supporting actions of the Harper government are well-documented. I agree that the other options are not exactly great, but the CPC is certainly the worst option out there.
 

morementum

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Aug 22, 2012
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I assure you that I am cynical about all politicians and many NGOs -- but I would take the credibility of the Sierra Club and David Suzuki over the Koch brothers or Ezra Levant any time. And where do you get the idea I am a supporter of conspiracy theories? The science-denying, religion-appealing, corporation-supporting actions of the Harper government are well-documented. I agree that the other options are not exactly great, but the CPC is certainly the worst option out there.
Here is but one example of what I speak:

Tides Canada says that it is a non-partisan, national public foundation that supports social and environmental philanthropy. This sounds great but perhaps there's more to it than that.

Tides Canada funds hundreds of charities, it says, but a close analysis of the U.S. tax returns finds that more than half of Tides Canada's grantees receive less than $10,000. The major thrust of work of Tides Canada appears to be to channel large amounts of money, especially from American foundations, to First Nations and environmental groups, particularly on the strategic, north coast of British Columbia.

Tides Canada has made grants to a wide variety of organizations including children's hospitals and the Dalai Lama but its biggest project, by far, has been the Great Bear Rainforest on B.C.'s north coast. This area is a huge, relatively intact and undisturbed ecosystem, the largest coastal temperate rainforest in the world. From an economic and trade perspective, this area is also Canada's strategic gateway to Asia.

In 2009, about half of Tides Canada's grants went for projects on the northern B.C. coast and for "reforming" Canada's energy sector, according to my analysis of tax returns. Obviously, something about this relatively small but very strategic part of Canada's coastline - the gateway to Asia - is very important to Tides Canada.

Since 2000, Tides Canada has been granted about $60 million by American charitable foundations, tax returns show. In 2010, more than half of Tides Canada's revenue was from foreign sources, Canadian tax returns say.

Through Tides Canada, American foundations fund multi-million dollar campaigns to "reform" forestry, mining, aquaculture and most recently, Alberta oil. In some ways, these campaigns would make Canadian industries less competitive and less profitable while protecting U.S. economic, market and trade interests - all in the name of protecting the environment.

One of the initiatives with which Tides Canada is involved is the Dogwood Initiative ("Dogwood") which seeks a federal ban on coastal oil tanker traffic - all in the name of protecting the a rare, blonde bear called the kermode bear (AKA The Great Spirit Bear). Since this ban would only cover the north coast of British Columbia, this isn't really a tanker ban. What this amounts to is an ingenious trade barrier. No oil tanker traffic means no Canadian oil exports to Asia. If the real concern is preventing an oil spill, it would make more sense for environmental organizations to argue for tightening regulations that apply over the entire coastline of Canada, not only a small part of it.

Notankers loonie High ResInterestingly enough, Dogwood's web-site is run out of Seattle by Groundwire which has been paid at least $2 million over the years by the same American foundations that support Dogwood. Groundwire has Microsoft veterans on staff and uses state-of-the-art, Salesforce software that Dogwood probably could not afford. One of Dogwood's campaigns, supported by Groundwire, is to defile one million one dollar coins by putting a sticker on them that makes the loon look like its stuck in an oil slick. "No Tankers," say the stickers. The Canadian Mint issued a cease and desist order but the campaign goes on. Groundwire also helped Dogwood to send 12,000 letters to Chinese and Korean companies to discourage them from signing agreements with Alberta oil suppliers.

Another campaign that Tides Canada appears to support indirectly is Pipe Up Against Enbridge. This campaign aims to stop the construction of pipeline that would carry Canadian oil from Alberta to the port town of Kitimat, B.C., where it could then be exported to Asia. Several of the member organizations involved in Pipe Up Against Enbridge (eg. Living Oceans Society, Skeena Wild Conservation Trust and Forest Ethics), are funded by Tides Canada.

The people of British Columbia are fiercely protective of the environment so it was never going to be difficult for environmental organizations to get the public on-side against oil tanker traffic or an oil pipeline. Millions of dollars from American foundations probably made that task even easier.

Another "environmental" campaign with significant market and trade impacts is the campaign against farmed salmon. With an initial $346,500 from the San Francisco-based, David and Lucile Packard Foundation, Tides Canada helped to start the Coastal Alliance for Aquaculture Reform (CAAR) which runs the Farmed and Dangerous campaign that scares consumers and retailers away from farmed salmon. Positioning farmed salmon as unsafe and unsustainable helps to position wild salmon as safe and sustainable. Since 2002 and the campaign against imported, farmed salmon, the ex-vessel value of domestic, Alaskan salmon has more than quadrupled from $125 million to $533 million. Even the Alaskan commercial fishermen say that the fish farm fuss has boosted their markets. CAAR also runs Wild Salmon Supporters, a marketing program that promotes specific, high-end restaurants that feature wild salmon.

If all of the bad things that environmentalists say about farmed salmon and salmon farming are true, it goes without saying that farmed salmon should be boycotted and banned. But, as actual reputable scientists have explained in detail in papers about PCBs and sea lice, much of what environmentalists have been saying is inaccurate and misleading, and in some instances, its plainly false. A classic example of this is David Suzuki's false claim that he had "uncovered the fact" that B.C. farmed salmon is heavily contaminated with PCBs and other toxins. But that's another story...

$90 Million From Two American Foundations

GBR MapU.S. tax returns show that since 2000, two American foundations created by the founders of Hewlett-Packard have granted $90 million to environmental groups and campaigns operating in Canada.The majority of this American money was for B.C. organizations and in particular, for projects to tackle the oil and gas industry and to establish a huge park smack on the gateway to Asia. This park, however, isn't called the Hewlett Packard Park. Instead, its called the Great Bear Rainforest and its now used as a pretext for banning oil tanker traffic - all in the name of protecting the kermode bear. Whether or not this was the plan all along, the Great Bear Rainforest has become The Great Trade Barrier.

We should all be for protecting the kermode bear but surely there are ways of doing so without turning Canada's entire, strategic gateway to Asia, into a park.

On top of the $90 million from the Hewlett and the Packard foundations, the Gordon & Betty Moore Foundation granted $87 million to B.C. environmental groups. Of that, nearly $30 million was specifically for the PNCIMA Initiative which works with the same First Nations and the same environmental organizations as the Great Bear Rainforest Initiative, in the same strategic part of the north coast of B.C. The Pew Charitable Trusts has granted $77 million for environmental campaigns and projects in Canada. That's a total of $254 million from four U.S. foundations over the past decade (Hewlett, Packard, Moore & Pew).

Interestingly enough, the Seattle-based, Wilburforce Foundation paid Tides USA to get the Dogwood Initiative ".... to devolve control over land on B.C.'s central coast to First Nations and communities in the interest of long-term habitat protection." Of all the places in the world where an American foundation could support aboriginal people to get control of their traditional lands, are the first nations on the B.C. coast really the most in need of American philanthropy?

One of the peculiar things about the Wilburforce Foundation is that it was not founded by Wilberforce, the 18th century English philanthropist and abolistionist. Rather, the Wilburforce Foundation was founded by Gordon Letwin, one of the original founders of Microsoft. Gordon and Rose Letwin have granted $93 million to endow the Wilburforce foundation, including $63 million in Microsoft shares.

In 2009 and 2010, Tides USA paid $10 million to 43 organizations involved in a "Tar Sands Campaign," U.S. tax returns say. All of the organizations involved in this campaign are depicting Canadian oil in a negative light.

In 2009, Tides USA also paid nearly $17 million to consultants while Tides Canada paid $5.5 million in professional and consulting fees. That's just part of the $164 million that Tides USA, Tides Canada and Endswell have spent on consultants over the past decade.

The senior leadership of Tides USA and Tides Canada was the same for many years. In fact, the "founding chair" of Tides Canada, Drummond Pike, is also the founder of Tides USA and was CEO for 34 years until he quietly stepped down in 2010. Pike is also the chairman of Endswell and a senior advisor to Renewal Partners which "invested" in Happy Planet, or so the story goes. Happy Planet is the juice company that is Mayor Robertson's claim to fame before politics.

Tides USA and Tides Canada are legally distinct entities but in some projects, they appear to be intertwined. Some of the grants to Tides Canada go through Tides USA. For example, money for Organizing for Change, a project of Tides Canada, was paid to Tides USA by the Bullitt foundation. Early in 2011, one of the activities of Organizing for Change was to encourage people to temporarily join the B.C. Liberal party in order to influence the leadership race and determine who became the premier of British Columbia after Gordon Campbell's resignation.

Indeed, if one has an interest in influencing B.C. politics, the mayor of Vancouver is a good place to put your money. Two of the previous five mayors of Vancouver (Gordon Campbell and Mike Harcourt) have gone on to become long-time premiers.

The "Strategic Plan"

Back in 2004, the Hewlett Foundation paid Tides Canada $70,000 "for the development of a strategic plan to address the oil and gas industry in British Columbia." Since then, Hewlett has granted $26 million to Tides Canada and other groups to tackle the oil and gas industry in Canada. That's a lot of money, and it raises a fair question: What was the strategic plan?

Since Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson was a director of Tides Canada back in 2004 when the plan was hatched, one would think that he would know the plan.
 

chuckertmg

Member
Mar 12, 2013
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Not Always Sure...
PeaceGuy;153***3 said:
I'm not really up on a lot of these American foundations. Can you please identify from all the American foundations you have listed as funding environmental activism in Canada, the ones that are primarily funded by American big oil (seeing as that is your thesis of which the above posts are supposedly the proof).
The author of this diatribe is Viviane Krause:
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/tides-canada-strategic-plan.html
She's been on an anti-Suzuki, pro-fracking vent for some time. If you read the rest of her blog you'll see the pattern, although I don't know that it will specifically answer your question.
 

HankQuinlan

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Sep 7, 2002
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Here is but one example of what I speak:
(unattributed quote from a spokesperson who defends the oil sands and pipeline construction plans, and whose "research" is used by the corporate lobby group Ethical Oil)
And how is this, even if 100% true, in any way worse than the constant, billions of dollars spending from Big Oil and its associates lobbying the Canadian and US governments and buying commercial time for its propaganda? The Koch brothers donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Fraser Institute while owning the largest chunk of the oil sands (not to mention the billions they spend denying climate science and creating/supporting the Tea Party)?

I am at a loss to understand why Americans spending money for ecological causes makes them terrorists, but Big Oil spending far more on their agenda somehow makes them good corporate citizens? Why aren't the Koch Brothers considered terrorists? They have done far more harm to North American civil society than just about anyone.
 

chuckertmg

Member
Mar 12, 2013
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Not Always Sure...
And how is this, even if 100% true, in any way worse than the constant, billions of dollars spending from Big Oil and its associates lobbying the Canadian and US governments and buying commercial time for its propaganda?
Or… the enormous amount of money funnelled into the Conservative coffers going into the last election by Tea Party representatives and Republican forces in the U.S. to ensure they had a centre-of-right party north of their border?
 

morementum

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Aug 22, 2012
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And how is this, even if 100% true, in any way worse than the constant, billions of dollars spending from Big Oil and its associates lobbying the Canadian and US governments and buying commercial time for its propaganda? The Koch brothers donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Fraser Institute while owning the largest chunk of the oil sands (not to mention the billions they spend denying climate science and creating/supporting the Tea Party)?

I am at a loss to understand why Americans spending money for ecological causes makes them terrorists, but Big Oil spending far more on their agenda somehow makes them good corporate citizens? Why aren't the Koch Brothers considered terrorists? They have done far more harm to North American civil society than just about anyone.
Because the latter pay taxes for the demands you have on the government. The former don't pay tax through their "non-profit" status and that is what is being investigated.

Like I said, I have mucho problemo with a lot of what this Federal Government is doing - and coming from Quebec it takes a pretty bad government for me to notice - but on this one issue, I am pleased that they are going after the mega rich enviro-terrorists and in particular the ones funded by the US oil lobby against Canadian development/jobs and taxation.
 

HankQuinlan

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Sep 7, 2002
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Because the latter pay taxes for the demands you have on the government. The former don't pay tax through their "non-profit" status and that is what is being investigated.

Like I said, I have mucho problemo with a lot of what this Federal Government is doing - and coming from Quebec it takes a pretty bad government for me to notice - but on this one issue, I am pleased that they are going after the mega rich enviro-terrorists and in particular the ones funded by the US oil lobby against Canadian development/jobs and taxation.
I am sorry to break the news, but Big Oil (along with their other corporate buddies) receives corporate welfare in the billions every year. Huge tax breaks, subsidies, the works. On the backs of taxpayers like me -- and, I assume, you.

But don't worry -- the Liberals will do the same thing.
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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One of the initiatives with which Tides Canada is involved is the Dogwood Initiative ("Dogwood") which seeks a federal ban on coastal oil tanker traffic - all in the name of protecting the a rare, blonde bear called the kermode bear (AKA The Great Spirit Bear).
actually the kermode bear is a plain-as-shit ole black bear with a recessive gene that makes its hair white

i know people who have seen black bears with kermode trait cubs. also one cub black, the other kermode
 
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