Con Artist

[Carus0]

This thread has opened up an interesting discussion... so I will throw it out there and hide behind my anonymity with this question...

I'm a rich guy. Super rich by anyone's standards. I'm hanging out on this board and visiting a few of the ladies I hear about on here for one reason only... and that is that due to my lifestyle, I've given up trying to meet someone "for real". I'm now 50, retired, normal-looking and in good shape, live between two spectacular homes. And drive two spectacular cars. I'm not saying it to boast... I'm saying it so you understand the situation. Friends hook me up with women all the time, but I've given up trying to discern the genuine ones with the gold diggers. Frankly, it's become impossible. I've flirted with the idea of renting a "normal" home in Yaletown, buying a normal car and creating some sort of artistic "persona" and seeing if I can meet some real people.

I've met interesting women, travelled with them all over the world, whirlwind weekends to Vegas or Bahamas or a week in Italy. All that. And I can't shake the feeling and wondering if they'd be there if my bank account had a few less zeroes. And like I said, I've given up. I'm not saying all women are like that, of course. Just that I can't tell anymore and don't feel like trying to figure it out. I appreciate and understand and admit it's my issue more than anyones. Yet I crave a true relationship, even if it were on the floor of a 400sq. foot bug-infested apartment in the DTES. At least it'd be the real thing. And I would pay millions for the real thing.

Which is why I get it. My situation is orders of magnitude better than this poor guy but, I totally get it. For him, it's the potential unfolding a dream, and that's worth any amount of money. What this bitch did to that guy is far deeper and more painful than the money. She took a fragile guy and bashed the shit out of whatever spark of hope he may have had left. Money and material nonsense comes and goes, but those are some seriously deep emotional scar that he's left with.

You may hear in due course that some anonymous person stepped up to help this guy. That will have been me. Because I sympathise and understand and am happy to throw money at it, because at least that part of it can be fixed.

For the few ladies on here reading this who know who I am, I already know I can trust you with discretion. For the others who may be wondering, if you recall someone who fits the description, negotiated terms with you and then tipped you 15 canoes aka 3 Bordens aka 6 RCMP horse formations... that was probably me. Nice to "see" you again.

 

[Tugela]

I'm a rich guy. Super rich by anyone's standards. I'm hanging out on this board and visiting a few of the ladies I hear about on here for one reason only... and that is that due to my lifestyle, I've given up trying to meet someone "for real". I'm now 50, retired, normal-looking and in good shape, live between two spectacular homes. And drive two spectacular cars. I'm not saying it to boast... I'm saying it so you understand the situation. Friends hook me up with women all the time, but I've given up trying to discern the genuine ones with the gold diggers. Frankly, it's become impossible. I've flirted with the idea of renting a "normal" home in Yaletown, buying a normal car and creating some sort of artistic "persona" and seeing if I can meet some real people.

Well, in the interests of your happiness I think you should give me all of your money so you can meet a real woman

But in all seriousness, there is a difference between buying a relationship and having one. If you have doubts about what the effect of a lavish lifestyle is having on the type of people you meet, then adjust your lifestyle. You don't need to be poor. The important thing is that love can't be bought, which is the mistake that the guy in this story made.

As for helping this guy, keep in mind that you likely don't know the full or true story, only a version of it, and you might end up being the one taken advantage of.

 

[Carus0]

But in all seriousness, there is a difference between buying a relationship and having one. If you have doubts about what the effect of a lavish lifestyle is having on the type of people you meet, then adjust your lifestyle. You don't need to be poor. The important thing is that love can't be bought, which is the mistake that the guy in this story made.

You're exactly right, and that's why I'm considering a "scaledown". Part of me considers renting a "fake life" for this purpose, part of me thinks of doing it for real. Sell all the material stuff, buy a modest apartment and one car and be done with it. I've gotten used to all the lavish stuff, but I know I can live without it and did for many years. It might be the only answer, actually, because of course at some point the truth needs to be revealed and how can I do that without blowing any level of established trust.

Ultimately, I'm lying anyway so at some point it becomes an issue.

Young, unattached guys who are reading this... here is some advice: hook up with a woman who's at the same financial level as you and in a similar place in life. Then grow together. That's possibly the only true forumula for a happy and long-lasting relationship. All other setups have a "what's in it for me" angle to them (for both the man and the woman).

 

[Carus0]

About your situation- you must come to terms with the fact that there is a little (or big) golddigger in every woman. (and a horndog in every man)

All women want good financial providers (and men good sexual providers). If you put your focus on finding out what the woman wants from you, you've doomed the relationship from day one. How about changing your focus to finding a woman with the right personality and character? Someone with whom you share common pastimes? Look past the fact she'll like you more at the beginning because she perceives life with you will be easier (is this really all that bad?). See who this person is for real. How does she treat her parents? How does she react when there's a fly in the soup? How does she treat strangers? What can you love about her?

I'm curious if you've ever hidden your financial status (and NO, Yaletown is NOT a place to find normal- it's stuck up and full of the types that would likely be more golddigging than most). This may help to find someone who is not star struck by your wealth, so you can get to know her real personality, and find out if she thinks you're right for her before she knows of your financial status.

Hi Nina,

First of all, it's great to hear from you and I hope your new life is treating you well. You certainly deserve it.

Well, it's hidden initially. I dress well and don't look like a bum, but that's a lot of people. But the car and my place, that's hard to hide (at present). You can almost see the dollar signs light up in their eyes. I know how callous that sounds, but it's true. And women I've met in a neutral setting who have no clue and show little interest, suddenly for whatever reason they catch wind of it and their little claws come out and they're sweet and charming.

I don't mean to disparage women with this, but I've seen this countless times, enough that I've given up. You can't buy a true relationship, that is true, but also it's possible to put yourself in a situation where it's impossible to find one. What am I to do? Bars and clubs? Where exactly does a 50-year old guy meet a genuine woman?

This is not a rhetorical question, because I've been asking it since age 44 and I haven't been able to get it answered properly.

By the way, I didn't intent to come on here and sound like a whining baby, "poor old rich guy", it's just that this news story struck a real chord with me and I totally, totally undersand what happened to this guy and why he allowed it to happen.

 

[Carus0]

When a man goes into how wealthy he is as soon as he has met a woman, he's either going to get "bullshit, he's trying to get into my pants on the first date", or he's going to get a gold digger. Boasting about money early guarantees unhappiness for the man.

I think any guy who presents himself that way is deservedly going to get someone as shallow as he deserves.

 

[Carus0]

In the past, I would've called you a cynical, unfortunate soul. Now, I think you're completely right. I likely do overvalue romantic relationships becuse I've been in them in the past, and they were wonderful. But as you get older and see the world for what it is, that vision changes. It's not a matter of better or worse, just a serious dose of reality. I used to love having sex 3 times a day. Well, I simply can't do that anymore. I can dwell on the reality of that and brood about it, or I can make the best of it and accept that once a day is pretty good and look forward to other rewarding things in my life.

Similarly, perhaps the romantic relationship is something in the past. So, that takes some adjusting to. But what then follows is exactly what you posted.

I think Carus0,overrates the importance of romantic relationships.
Usually;the wealthier as person is,the more expendable his relationships to others are.
Be it working career relationships or romantic relationships;people are more inclined to tell others to Fuck-Off,when they can more easily afford to do so.

Romantic relationships;in which one finds their soulmate to live happily everafter with,is a mirage.
The truth is;good memories generated in the course of a relationship,will long outlast the relationship itself.
I do not seek to aquire & maintain a relationship.
Instead I will enjoy the companionship of women;for whatever form it takes,for whatever duration it lasts.
When the happiness is over,let the relationship go and just be happy that it ever happened.
Do not invest yourself in the woman,but rather in the highpoints of the relationship.
It is in the highpoints of the relationship,which the everlasting good memories are generated.

If the romantic relationship is going to last everafter,then it's not likely to be a happily everafter relationship.
I just look at my married relatives in their late 70's & mid-80's.
The elderly male relatives are still being abusively scolded daily;by the same women who've lived their adult lives,out of their husbands' backpocket.
Am I willing to assume the same fate,for the sake of a relationship? Fuuuuuuuck that!

Englebert Humperdink

 

[Carus0]

I'm delighted you've found happiness... but I should note that I too was that happy some years ago. I understand how it's supposed to work. Been there, done that for decades, enjoyed it and miss it. And understand what it took for that to happen and realize that who/where/what I am in life today impedes it from happening ever again. I have the resources to chase it in whatever way would be required, it's just simply not possible. That's the realization I was trying to present in my original message.

Yes, it's possible and it's out there and achievable... but not for a 50 year old rich guy. There comes too much baggage on both sides of it for it to be legit and to work.

I looked with a cynical lens at Hollywood marriages but now I totally get it. Change the word marriage to "business association" and it makes more sense. They're not all as extreme as Hugh Hefner and his 20-something bride, but same idea. And where I am in life, that's the only role left for me to play. And I'm ok with it since everyone understands that.

But on the flipside, there are days where I'd consider giving it all away for one more shot at what I used to have. If I'd never been there, I wouldn't think it possible. But trust me, I get it.

There ARE couples in beautiful relationships that grow old together happily.
EH, I'm sad you don't see this as possible and your cynicism has you throwing away your right to experiencing something amazing.

Of course, it takes two to tango. Finding the right person is obviously a huge part of the equation, but so is your attitude and your level of maturity.

I look at my own relationship skills and realize that there is no way I could have been where I am today without all the practice I had fucking up previous relationships. They do say practice makes perfect.. but only if you learn something from your mistakes.
I don't think couples who get together early in life have much of a chance at having a long lasting romance, because there's too much water that's gone under the bridge... there's been too many mistakes made and too much damage you can't undo. For me, taking a huge break from any serious relationships after my 2nd marriage ended was the best thing I could have done. I learned so much about myself and figured out where I, myself, was wrong. Learning to take responsibility for your part in the problems in your partnerships is a huge thing. I know very few people who can really admit they are wrong. Surprisingly I found out that it didn't kill me, and actually made me feel better about myself.

I have a few suggestions:

1. You can be happy or you can be right, choose one. Let go of the notion that your way is the right way. Maybe your partner can teach you something new. Let go of your ego and enjoy being open to new vantage points.

2. That person you're with- they could be gone tomorrow. Do you remind them every day how happy you are that they are in your life? Do they know how much you appreciate them?

3. Are you an individual or a part of a couple? Thinking of your partner FIRST, before thinking of yourself is what creates a real partnership. Don't worry about yourself -when you're with the right person, they will think of YOU first.

4. Understand that you have to love everything about your partner, even the parts you don't want to love, or don't think you can love. Accepting all of them, every little bit, is what love is.

5. Make time to really BE with your mate. Remember that sweeping them off their feet is always fun and you can fall in love with them over and over again.


I believe humans are meant to be partnered. Maybe you can learn to be an island and stand on your own your whole life. I think some people believe being independent is the only way to get what you want in your life. I personally would rather want what my partner wants, and have a partner to share my life with. The wonderful thing is he wants what I want.. so we do a lot of communicating about our wants and we both get what we want.. and we get double the happiness because I am happy when he gets what he wants, AND when I get what I want.

I think the reality is, when you are in a great relationship, you get to experience more life because you get to see things through someone else's eyes. You are so close you feel their happiness too.

I love being in love

xoxo
Nina

 

[maroonedsailor]

I'm delighted you've found happiness... but I should note that I too was that happy some years ago. I understand how it's supposed to work. Been there, done that for decades, enjoyed it and miss it. And understand what it took for that to happen and realize that who/where/what I am in life today impedes it from happening ever again. I have the resources to chase it in whatever way would be required, it's just simply not possible. That's the realization I was trying to present in my original message.

Yes, it's possible and it's out there and achievable... but not for a 50 year old rich guy. There comes too much baggage on both sides of it for it to be legit and to work.

I looked with a cynical lens at Hollywood marriages but now I totally get it. Change the word marriage to "business association" and it makes more sense. They're not all as extreme as Hugh Hefner and his 20-something bride, but same idea. And where I am in life, that's the only role left for me to play. And I'm ok with it since everyone understands that.

But on the flipside, there are days where I'd consider giving it all away for one more shot at what I used to have. If I'd never been there, I wouldn't think it possible. But trust me, I get it.

I may not be the right guy to give you any advice here but I'm going to try. I don't have any money to speak of and I still have had the same exact problem you do. I just had it on a different scale. What I've learned is that we see the world through our own interpretation of our experience. We filter everything based on decisions we make about what happens in our lives. It's not REALITY: it's our version of reality. We make it up and our point of view can change. I think it's a huge mistake to pretend to be something you aren't, find "love" on that basis and then change up your game to a different "reality".
Here are the facts as I see them.
1. you will not likely find many women with as much wealth as you posess but clearly some exist. However, there are many women who do not NEED your money to take a vacation or buy nice clothes or eat at a good restaurant and some of them have enough that they do not need to work.
2. Some of those women will have an outlook on life that includes some kind of social contribution that says "I'm grateful for what I have and I'm willing and happy to give of my time and money to say so. That is a woman who will NEVER need your money.
3. You have not said so but I suspect that perhaps you do no charity work of your own although clearly you can afford to do so. I don't mean giving money, I mean giving yourself. If you want to be hit by a moving train you need to find the track it's on and go stand there til it hits you.

I submit that you have not really assessed the qualities of the woman you seek and that further you have not looked inside your heart to see if you have the qualities that would make you attractive to that woman. I'm going to tell you that you need a spiritual coach who will be brutally honest with you and hold you to a higher standard as a man. No easy road but a good one.

NIna? did I remember to tell you you're wonderful? love you girl - you're a candle in the darkness

 

[Carus0]

You know what, maroonedsailor's advice was magnificent. I don't need to rehash it, but the salient point hit home. I do give a lot of money to charity but in all honesty, zero time. But that's about to change. As of a few minutes ago and thanks to that posting, I'm now a volunteer... http://www.ugm.ca/take-action/volunteer -- apparently I'll be helping cook and serve food this weekend.

A new adventure, doing good and making a difference. I doubt I'll meet the girl of my dreams, but I'm looking forward to meeting some genuine people. This won't be the usual crowd I hang with, that's for sure.

Nina, just to be clear... I do not flaunt my wealth, but it's hard to hide it when people set you up... they already have an idea. And when it's women I've met on my own, at some point they get in my car or come to my home. That's hard to hide. It's not flaunting anymore than trying to pretend you're tall when you're actually a midget. The stilts are pretty obvious.

 

[maroonedsailor]

Congratulations squire. That's a great place to start. Let me suggest that outside the box of current expectations is the box of possibilities which is a much larger box. Let's imagine you're wearing red goggles and therefore everything in your world is tinged with red. When you take those goggles off a whole range of life becomes available to you. You may very well not meet the girl of your dreams but then again you just MIGHT. Seriously, please take the time to define just who you're looking for. In terms of hard cash and also in terms of WHO that person should be. Then the question becomes "could such a woman love ME? and am I ready to receive her love?" Most important is HOW WOULD I KNOW HER IF SHE SHOWED UP THIS AFTERNOON? I hear many other questions in my mind. Questions like "could I use some of my wealth to help promote a struggling charity?" "is there something that captures my heart and mind and just needs a leg up? You know - Bill Gates is married too bro and I'm pretty sure he gots mo dollas den you.........He and his wife work together with the Clintons and Warren Buffet to make things happen that way. The money doesn't matter any more except as a means to accomplish mutual goals. And BTW I'm using a charity model because gold diggers usually don't go there so your odds are better to find what you seek. You don't need a girlfriend - you need a partner in a magnificent enterprise. Good luck and may the IS put wind in your sails.

You know what, maroonedsailor's advice was magnificent. I don't need to rehash it, but the salient point hit home. I do give a lot of money to charity but in all honesty, zero time. But that's about to change. As of a few minutes ago and thanks to that posting, I'm now a volunteer... http://www.ugm.ca/take-action/volunteer -- apparently I'll be helping cook and serve food this weekend.

A new adventure, doing good and making a difference. I doubt I'll meet the girl of my dreams, but I'm looking forward to meeting some genuine people. This won't be the usual crowd I hang with, that's for sure.

Nina, just to be clear... I do not flaunt my wealth, but it's hard to hide it when people set you up... they already have an idea. And when it's women I've met on my own, at some point they get in my car or come to my home. That's hard to hide. It's not flaunting anymore than trying to pretend you're tall when you're actually a midget. The stilts are pretty obvious.

 

[maroonedsailor]

Hi Al - I got a feeling from Carus0 that he genuinely feels a need for something different in his life. IMO where we are is somehow less important than where we want to go if the desire is strong enough. Do I live in 6000 square feet because my "status" requires it or because I like it? Do I drive a Testarosa because I just love to drive it or because I think people will think I'm special? Jay Leno loves cars and has lots. Warren Buffet does not care and drives a second hand I'm not sure what it is but it's cheap and it's paid for. Different strokes for different folks. All the same the question remains "if I believe that my life style is preventing me from finding love, then is it what I really want or is it just what I thought I wanted at the time?" Personally, if I thought living a more modest lifestyle would make me happier, I wouldn't hesitate to downsize. Carus0 may or may not fall into that category - I just don't know. I see it though my own eyes and I know that is a very different viewpoint from his. I struggle from month to month and still manage to give away money I should probably keep for myself because it feels right to do so. That means I'm for sure not the go to guy for wealth building (that's your job LOL) OTOH if I had more I could do more cool things so it's all relative. I get your point about not trusting other people as a reflection of ones own trustworthiness and that applies across the board. We all see the world through the lens we fashion in life. Nina said a while back on another thread that "worry is like praying for what you don't want" - I like to say that "what you feed - grows" period end of story, so be careful what you feed. I so believe that a person can feed all the wrong things for a lifetime and still change their mind and feed something different.

After about 10 million in net worth, money is just a number that represents a commodity that can be used to do things. The thing is, as the ultra wealthy demonstrate, that commodity can be used to do very good things like making needed drugs available to all who need them or to create schools to teach children as Oprah is doing. When you don't have the ability to fund entire programs, it's important to choose your charity wisely in order to accomplish something lasting.

In public service, which is what political membership, charitable involvement and religious involvement are all about, you meet people who put a goal/cause in front of their own aspirations.

 

[maroonedsailor]

For one brief glorious moment in his life Doug was Special.......it cost him 800k to feel that way and I guess that for him, it was worth it. Then when she took it away again he acted like a little bitch and blamed it all on her like he had absolutely nothing to do with it. Yes I feel sorry for both of them cause they couldn't ever have done it without each other being in the game. It's like suing Micky D for making the coffee too hot.

lol, I'm a lawyer - but I like money and try to not waste what I earn.

We are all brainwashed by our consumer society to want things and measure the worth of people by the things that they have. It's not the things that make you worthwhile. It's what you do to enhance/improve/support civilization that makes you worthwhile. I choose to support the rule of law, the use of law and politics to support civilization and the use of the law to remove the more predatory people from being able to make us uncivilized.

Things can be an illusion. Look at all the people that lived on credit and even used their homes as ATMs to finance Things. Look at where they are now and how the collapse of the housing bubble nearly brought down global finance. And the most disgusting part of the whole debacle is that most of the Things that people bought are already in landfills.

That's not to say that many people do measure people by their Things. I've had women off of dating sites lose interest because of the vehicle I drive, I don't drive a "Status" vehicle. However, I lost nothing when they decided they didn't want me. I wouldn't have been happy with them around me.

So, as both you and SNL have expressed - the secret trick is to like yourself, to be confident in yourself and not require affirmation by another person.

What I saw with the original story about poor Doug is that he set himself up to be used because he wanted Things that people would envy. He wanted an attractive escort to "love" him and I think a lot of that "want" was because he knew others would also find her attractive. He could have chosen a woman that wasn't a "prize" a woman that others wouldn't envy his possession of - but he didn't. That's not to excuse Mz Johnson's conduct. She could have chosen to just give him $700 sex sessions and tell him she had a husband - but she didn't.

However, there are women out there who would have loved Doug and made that $800,000 last most of a lifetime together. Doug didn't want one of them. He wanted a Thing.

 

[jnewton]

Carus0, Nina, Marooned, Al, etc. - great job to all of you. This thread ought to be moved to a new section on the board, "Reflections on Life" - or something like that, and made a sticky.