Comments on National Geographic's Taboo: Prostitution

[Commander Chode]

National Geographic's "Taboo" show recently had a Prostitution program:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/taboo/4595/Overview#tab-Overview

It covered a wide view of the trade, from Dhaka Bangladesh, and the the truck stop prostitution city with children sex slaves, to the legal brothels in Sydney Australia (Stiletto was the one featured), to street workers in Washington D.C., to disabled men paying for sex in Holland, and finally internet porn studios in Prague, Czech Republic (http://www.bigsister.net/) where prostitute clients have sex for free, because the internet clients pay to watch.

No discussion of male prostitutes.

There were only two things new to me, the internet porn studio, and the comments by Prof. Sheila Jeffreys, Social Scientist, University of Melbourne.

The show tried to remain neutral, but there were commentators from various view points. The strongly anti-prostitute view point was presented by Prof. Jeffreys.

I know these ivory tower types exist, I just haven't heard these exact arguments before. Below are some of her comments.

Legalization of prostitution is the state entering into a contract with it's male citizens to give them sexual access to women. Now what happens when prostitution is legalized is the legalization of violence against women.

What it's all about is what we call "The Law of the Male Sex Right". It is considered that men must have sexual access to women, and women must be enlisted so that is possible.

(the above seems to be in response to the question of disabled men buying sex).

Whilst prostitution exists any women can be seen as prostituted. It effects them in their relationships, it effects the sex they are likely to have in those relationships, because it's a model of sexuality which is men simply objectifying women. It's nothing to do with egalitarian sexuality or women's pleasure and that effects the whole construction of sexuality in a society.

I've run into Prof. Jeffreys type before. In getting my various degrees, I decided to take a Intro to Women's History course. I was only one of two men in the class, the other dropped out. I've never gotten less then a A- writing essays in university, but the highest mark I ever got on an essay in my "Men are Pigs" class is a C. I wasn't willing to bow down to "Men are evil.", then and I ain't now.

The meaning and importance of sex is not a constant. It is dependant on the company in which it happens. Just as a kiss means different things at different times, sexual intercourse means different things at different times. Kissing my aunt, is different then kissing my lover. Assuming men are so unsophisticated that they can't separate a good time with an escort, and love making inside a caring and loving relationship is insulting.

A society has a right to protect it's citizens, and legalizing prostitution is about protection of women. That is far more important then an abstract concept drummed up to justify your outrage that consenting adults can have some fun.

Get out of your ivory tower, Prof. Jeffreys, get some sun, relax, and live and let live. Civilization won't end because some guy payed some girl for a good time.

There, that's off my chest

Comments are welcome.

 

[Bad Santa]

Couldn't agree with you more Commander!

 

[tantalizeme]

Interesting post—and thanks for the informative links

Hey Commander Chode,

A society has a right to protect it's citizens, and legalizing prostitution is about protection of women. That is far more important then an abstract concept drummed up to justify your outrage that consenting adults can have some fun.

Yes, legalizing sex work can help protect women engaged in it—but if you make this argument, there'll be numerous objections.

For example, legalizing sex work can't magically protect women from many risks intrinsic to having sex with strangers. And legalizing sex work may make access to commercial sex easier and less disreputable, contribute to undermining marital fidelity and stability, and make sex work a legitimate, tempting career choice for a lot more young women (the ultimate horror of most parents).

In debates about prostitution I'd certainly not try to deny the undeniable: there're pros and cons to legalizing prostitution. But in the end, I'd insist that respect for individual autonomy is by far the most important consideration here. I'd stress this: HOW CONSENTING ADULTS EXPRESS THEIR SEXUALITY WITH EACH OTHER IS NOBODY ELSE'S BUSINESS.

Interfering with the voluntary sexual choices of adults disrespects their autonomy and is treating them merely as a means to other people's choices: a clear violation of basic human rights. This is the line of reasoning I'd pursue—with no false hopes, of course, that any argument will ever convince the antisex-work fanatics.

We'll just have to let them foam at the mouth and do our best to see that sexual sanity prevails in our liberal democracy.

You're obviously a brainy guy, Commander Chode. Hope you keep posting.

 

[EnchantingAria]

Responsible consensual adult sexual activity does not cause evil in society, rather it is a pleasure enjoyed from an egalitarian approach to hedonism. What the majority of us do with our sexuality is natural, healthy, and a positive part of living life. Most of us enjoy treating each other with dignity & respect in the bedroom as it creates a solid foundation to safely explore our sexual desires. For most sophisticated adults, the consumer sex experience is easily treated with the same ease and caring as a non-monetary sexual relationship.

The problem is that evil people use sexuality as one of their vehicles for fulfilling their dastardly desires. Sex isn't what made these people bad, they were bad long before they decided to use sex in their arsenal of weapons against humanity. Evil is evil... sex is not evil! But, the stigma continues... One thing that really upset me is the response to the Craigslist killer. Rather than spread the message of "an evil killer is targeting a specific group of women who are active on this website, let's help keep these women safe" mentality, they seemed to send the message that "if you engage in prostitution, you DESERVE to have killers come and harm you because the consumer sex trade is worse than murder." Responses like that continue the messages that:

1. sex causes evil
2. sex exploits women
3. sex is all about men and power

Prostitution, kinks, role play, exotic dancing, power exchange, fetishes, voyeurism.... it's ALL okay for the majority of us, who know how to use sex to it's natural purpose of pleasure & human connection! It's those asshole evil people who use sex the wrong way that give the rest of us a bad name!

 

[CLIT COMMANDER]

Responsible consensual adult sexual activity does not cause evil in society, rather it is a pleasure enjoyed from an egalitarian approach to hedonism. What the majority of us do with our sexuality is natural, healthy, and a positive part of living life. Most of us enjoy treating each other with dignity & respect in the bedroom as it creates a solid foundation to safely explore our sexual desires. For most sophisticated adults, the consumer sex experience is easily treated with the same ease and caring as a non-monetary sexual relationship.

The problem is that evil people use sexuality as one of their vehicles for fulfilling their dastardly desires. Sex isn't what made these people bad, they were bad long before they decided to use sex in their arsenal of weapons against humanity. Evil is evil... sex is not evil! But, the stigma continues... One thing that really upset me is the response to the Craigslist killer. Rather than spread the message of "an evil killer is targeting a specific group of women who are active on this website, let's help keep these women safe" mentality, they seemed to send the message that "if you engage in prostitution, you DESERVE to have killers come and harm you because the consumer sex trade is worse than murder." Responses like that continue the messages that:

1. sex causes evil
2. sex exploits women
3. sex is all about men and power

Prostitution, kinks, role play, exotic dancing, power exchange, fetishes, voyeurism.... it's ALL okay for the majority of us, who know how to use sex to it's natural purpose of pleasure & human connection! It's those asshole evil people who use sex the wrong way that give the rest of us a bad name!

Well thought out posting! A+

 

[Commander Chode]

Hey Commander Chode,
Yes, legalizing sex work can help protect women engaged in it—but if you make this argument, there'll be numerous objections.

For example, legalizing sex work can't magically protect women from many risks intrinsic to having sex with strangers.

Legalization doesn't magically protect the escort, but it does reduce the stigma, and provides better access to resources, such as police, justice, and health care. It is a step forward when women can ask for help without fear.

And legalizing sex work may make access to commercial sex easier and less disreputable, contribute to undermining marital fidelity and stability, and make sex work a legitimate, tempting career choice for a lot more young women (the ultimate horror of most parents).

I don't understand this objection. If someone will be unfaithful, they will be unfaithful, be it with a sex worker, or some one they meet for casual sex. An agreement of monogamy, be it marriage or some other, is between those two people, not the state. If you want monogamy with your partner, get to know them very well, and understand why they want to be with you. If they are only with you because you are young and beautiful, then what happens when you are older, and your looks fade? The state is there to protect it's citizens, not to stop a cheating heart.

As for parent's wishes for their children, that is not for the state to decide. A parent's wishes for their children is between children and the parents.

The state is there to make professions that harm others illegal. The profession of thief is illegal because stealing is illegal. Stealing harms others, and the state has the authority to make being a thief against the law. Sex work doesn't harm others in this way.

Another example is alcohol and alcoholism. The problem isn't alcohol, it's with the alcoholic. They have a problem, and they use alcohol as a way to avoid dealing with it, or an inability to deal with it. Prohibition of alcohol doesn't fix the underlying problem. Prohibition of prostitution does not fix a unfaithful partner, nor does it change the expectations of a parent for their children.

The state doesn't exist to put speed bumps in matters of morality.

In debates about prostitution I'd certainly not try to deny the undeniable: there're pros and cons to legalizing prostitution. But in the end, I'd insist that respect for individual autonomy is by far the most important consideration here. I'd stress this: HOW CONSENTING ADULTS EXPRESS THEIR SEXUALITY WITH EACH OTHER IS NOBODY ELSE'S BUSINESS.

Interfering with the voluntary sexual choices of adults disrespects their autonomy and is treating them merely as a means to other people's choices: a clear violation of basic human rights. This is the line of reasoning I'd pursue—with no false hopes, of course, that any argument will ever convince the antisex-work fanatics.

We'll just have to let them foam at the mouth and do our best to see that sexual sanity prevails in our liberal democracy.

Amen!

You're obviously a brainy guy, Commander Chode. Hope you keep posting.

Thanks, but I consider more over educated then brainy

 

[Commander Chode]

Oh, and for what it is worth, I LOVE "Tripping the Rift". 6 is hot as hell!

Though they refined and improved 6's look in the series, the series itself was a let down. The original, though dated now, is still a excellent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkwFM1WfW_Q

 

[Bad Santa]

I wonder if Prof. Jeffreys sees the irony in her stand against prostitution?

She spends her time fighting against the "sexual revolution" of prostitution, when it is people like her who help make the women in this line of work victims. The more she victimizes and power-trips over prostitutes, the more prostitutes will become victims due to the poor working environment a lot of them are forced to work in out of fear of being attacked by the law.

Making prostitution criminalized does nothing but punish those women who are doing this out of choice. The law should be going after pimps and abusive clients. Not the women themselves.

Who is she to speak for those of us who actually know what the deal is, anyways? She's the lady who has her head so far up her own ass that she was bitch-slapped by the media for calling transgender and transexual people "mutilations"...

Oh, and for what it is worth, I LOVE "Tripping the Rift". 6 is hot as hell!

Responsible consensual adult sexual activity does not cause evil in society, rather it is a pleasure enjoyed from an egalitarian approach to hedonism. What the majority of us do with our sexuality is natural, healthy, and a positive part of living life. Most of us enjoy treating each other with dignity & respect in the bedroom as it creates a solid foundation to safely explore our sexual desires. For most sophisticated adults, the consumer sex experience is easily treated with the same ease and caring as a non-monetary sexual relationship.

The problem is that evil people use sexuality as one of their vehicles for fulfilling their dastardly desires. Sex isn't what made these people bad, they were bad long before they decided to use sex in their arsenal of weapons against humanity. Evil is evil... sex is not evil! But, the stigma continues... One thing that really upset me is the response to the Craigslist killer. Rather than spread the message of "an evil killer is targeting a specific group of women who are active on this website, let's help keep these women safe" mentality, they seemed to send the message that "if you engage in prostitution, you DESERVE to have killers come and harm you because the consumer sex trade is worse than murder." Responses like that continue the messages that:

1. sex causes evil
2. sex exploits women
3. sex is all about men and power

Prostitution, kinks, role play, exotic dancing, power exchange, fetishes, voyeurism.... it's ALL okay for the majority of us, who know how to use sex to it's natural purpose of pleasure & human connection! It's those asshole evil people who use sex the wrong way that give the rest of us a bad name!

Thanks for your excellent comments, Kim and Aria!

What goes on between two consenting adults behind closed doors is nobodys business but theirs. I just can't believe all the sanctimonious crap that's spewed about that simple little activity called "sex."
They're all just vindictive "control freaks" who want to control other people's lives.

And Commander Chode, thanks again for an excellent thread!