Canadian Politics

[shawn]

Excuse my ignorance, I have not followed Canadian politics for a long time. I hear the liberals are in trouble and the Conservatives are most likely going to topple them. Are Conservatives in Canada anything like Conservatives in the USA? Anti privacy, Anti prostitution, Anti Gay Marriage. Will they destroy the decriminalization of pot bill?

If so I would be very surprised why a liberal place like Canada could possible vote for these people, even though the liberals are corrupt ,look at what the Schrub "little Bush" has done to the USA

 

[dirtydan]

Excuse my ignorance, I have not followed Canadian politics for a long time. I hear the liberals are in trouble and the Conservatives are most likely going to topple them. Are Conservatives in Canada anything like Conservatives in the USA? Anti privacy, Anti prostitution, Anti Gay Marriage. Will they destroy the decriminalization of pot bill?

First of all the Conservatives today just blew away a lot of their credibility. Their leader, Stephen Harper, has been berating the NDP and their leader Jack Layton for propping up the Liberals. This dispite a confidence vote not having been undertaken since the spring and the Tories supported the Liberal government.

Now that the NDP is leaning towards bringing down the minority Liberal government, the Tories don't want to be the party that moves a motion of non-confidence despite being the party that has the earliest chance to do so in about a week.

So for all of the Tories' bluster about how bad it is the for the NDP to prop up a corrupt Liberal government, when the time comes for the shit to hit the fan the Tories are running away with their political tails between their legs.

Will the Conservatives beat the Liberals come the next election? That remains to be seen. The last two polls put the respective parties at being almost tied or the Conservatives a couple of points ahead of the Liberals. Last spring the Conservatives a good lead over the Liberals but managed to destory all of their new found support. If they do the same thing again then bank on the next government being another Liberal minority.

If so I would be very surprised why a liberal place like Canada could possible vote for these people, even though the liberals are corrupt ,look at what the Schrub "little Bush" has done to the USA

Hell one name: Brian Mulroney. How quickly Conservatives forget in all of their bluster about Liberal corruption.

 

[dirtydan]

The "Conservative" party is the Reform Party under a new banner. They would have sent Canadian troops to Iraq, they hate gays, they equate pot with crystal meth, they hate anything that seems "intellectual" like art or universities. They like taking things out of context and lying. They are the party for angry rednecks.

And let's not forget Global News anchor turned Conservative candidate Peter Kent. I think the guy has a secret wish to be the next Joseph Gobbels. He wants to create a government watchdog organization to oversee the teaching of journalism at the Canadian universities that offer it. According to Kent there are too many leftie journalism profs misleading too many students and action must be taken to correct this. I guess kent simply does not realize that the students are able enough to make up their own minds on what their choices for politics might be.

Peter Kent = thought control

 

[Randy Whorewald]

The "Conservative" party is the Reform Party under a new banner. They would have sent Canadian troops to Iraq, they hate gays, they equate pot with crystal meth, they hate anything that seems "intellectual" like art or universities. They like taking things out of context and lying. They are the party for angry rednecks.

Canadians have been getting screwed so much by the liberal party (as in Jean Chretien), they have gotten numb. They don't even know they are getting fucked anymore. These liberals assume the taxpayer is dumb as all get out. I say throw these scumbag liberals out and try someone else for a while.

 

[festealth]

And let's not forget Global News anchor turned Conservative candidate Peter Kent. I think the guy has a secret wish to be the next Joseph Gobbels. He wants to create a government watchdog organization to oversee the teaching of journalism at the Canadian universities that offer it. According to Kent there are too many leftie journalism profs misleading too many students and action must be taken to correct this. I guess kent simply does not realize that the students are able enough to make up their own minds on what their choices for politics might be.

Peter Kent = thought control

on the political spectrum, the conservatives would be very much similar to the american democrats (states politic is more conservative to begin with), so liberals and ndp would definately be considered as "left-wing" media by usa standards.

also, about the political alignments with profs and teachers, aren't there like 10 socialist instructors for every 1 conservative? not to turn this into a left vs right thread, but when people in my age group doesn't understand the concept of fiscal responsibility and the difference between conservatism and fascism, something is definately wrong

 

[RDangerfield]

Harper

The Conservatives, aka Alliance, aka Reform aka "The United Right" have had problems for years. They just don't know how to select a leader.

You would have thought they would have learned their lesson after the Stockwell Day fiasco but no, they do the seemingly impossible - they select a new leader who is just as bad!

Stephen Harper is a bozo who has one agenda, to become PM at any cost. I really doubt if he could stand up to the level of public scrutiny that comes with that office.

It's all academic though as Harper will never become PM. He has serious credibility problems and he is from the wrong side of the country.

The best thing the Conservatives can do is to bounce Harper out and install a leader who can construct a coherent sentence and not put their foot in their mouth at every turn.

 

[Randy Whorewald]

The Conservatives, aka Alliance, aka Reform aka "The United Right" have had problems for years. They just don't know how to select a leader.

You would have thought they would have learned their lesson after the Stockwell Day fiasco but no, they do the seemingly impossible - they select a new leader who is just as bad!

Stephen Harper is a bozo who has one agenda, to become PM at any cost. I really doubt if he could stand up to the level of public scrutiny that comes with that office.

It's all academic though as Harper will never become PM. He has serious credibility problems and he is from the wrong side of the country.

The best thing the Conservatives can do is to bounce Harper out and install a leader who can construct a coherent sentence and not put their foot in their mouth at every turn.

And what great things have Chretien or Martin done for us in the past 10 years? Try to give me at least one example. Please remember these two jokers were part of the same government for most of that time.

 

[shawn]

on the political spectrum, the conservatives would be very much similar to the american democrats (states politic is more conservative to begin with), so liberals and ndp would definately be considered as "left-wing" media by usa standards.

also, about the political alignments with profs and teachers, aren't there like 10 socialist instructors for every 1 conservative? not to turn this into a left vs right thread, but when people in my age group doesn't understand the concept of fiscal responsibility and the difference between conservatism and fascism, something is definately wrong

I left Canada about 7 yrs ago to live in America. I came here when things were quite good. 8 yrs of prosperity, economic growth under Clinton.I had it quite good the first 2 yrs I was here. Then George Bush got voted in. He was not so bad the first 8 months, then 911 happenned.

To his credit, I thought he did a very good job of rallying the American people and had Republicans and Democrats more united than they ever. I believe he had a 90% approval rate and I approve of the way he sent troops into Afghanistan. But then he sucked the American People "myself included" that Iraq had WMD and went to war. Things just went really downhill from there. The American economy is in the toilet. The Religious right has more power than ever, Gas prices are through the roof., His adminstration is crooked and arrogant and there is nothing the American people can do about it.

The point to my rant is I do not want to see this happen in Canada. It starts slowly but Conservatives are like a slow cancer waiting to pounce.

Its kind of like when I was watching the West Wing the other day and Alan Aldas Character in a mock debate reminded Jimmy Smitts Character that a Republican freed the slaves. Jimmy Smitts in turn reminded him that Liberal Republican freed the slaves and liberals have been driven from the party. What have liberals done that Conservatives hate so much.

:Womens right to vote
:Minorities and peope of colour right to vote
:Medicare
:A womans right to choose

I hope people realize what they are in for if they get voted in.

 

[shawn]

Oh. Excuse my last comment.

I didn't know that you got your political savvy from the West Wing

Have I done something to offend you in past life? I have not followed Canadian politics for while and I was asking a legit question. Is there a point to your flaming Mr Hawk?

 

[GetHappy]

Damn, I love politics, where 50% of the people come together in the task of dividing themselves along arbitrary lines.

First, poll came out today (not sure if many saw it), but the Liberals are back above the Conservatives by more than the margin of error after only a weekend. Just goes to show that as much as Canadians try to get mad at the government for doing something wrong, we're just too apathetic to sustain it. The whole thing is people who weren't going to vote Liberal EVER, trying to sway the minds of the people who are too lazy to get up off the couch and do something, like vote.

My two cents for now, more change later

 

[smackyo]

And what great things have Chretien or Martin done for us in the past 10 years? Try to give me at least one example. Please remember these two jokers were part of the same government for most of that time.

how bout keeping us out of iraq which harper blasted chretien for. that good enough for ya? otherwise we'd be knee deep in shit right now too.

also shawn, as for mike hawk, don't worry about that guy i don't even know how he looks himself in the mirror and calls himself a canadian. i really do think he is carl rove or rush. he's almost as bad as dittman when it comes to the right wing bullshit.

 

[festealth]

What have liberals done that Conservatives hate so much.

:Womens right to vote
:Minorities and peope of colour right to vote
:Medicare
:A womans right to choose

I hope people realize what they are in for if they get voted in.

remember to look both side of the coin. wasn't it the liberal party back in the 30's that prevent jewish refugees from seeking asylum?


anyways, for smackyo on the iraq comment. harper never said we should send troops to iraq, just we should pay lip service to the yanks saying we're on their side. now whether the iraq conflict is just or not, it's for history to decide.

 

[sdw]

Merry Election

Mr. Layton has abandoned the warm dirty bed of the Liberal Pickpockets and is now shopping his party out.

The Conservatives and Bloc Quebecois say that Mr. Layton has to supply the bed if he wants them because he has spurned their offers of a menage d' trois too many times in the past.

It should be interesting to see if Mr. Layton and his NDP will actually use one of their own opposition days to introduce a motion of non-confidence in the Liberal government. The Conservative and Bloc Quebecois have made it quite clear that they won't be using one of their opposition days to introduce such a motion.

Perhaps Maverick will do a poll on whether Mr. Layton will walk the talk or if the NDP is still just negotiating with the Liberals.

Our options from my jaded viewpoint:

Vote for the Liberals because we want what has been slowly stolen from us and don't mind it if a little gets skimmed off the top.

Vote for the Conservatives because we don't believe in social benefits anyway.

Vote for the NDP because we can't walk and like to talk.

Vote for the Greens because all commerce is evil, people are evil and the land should lie fallow for future generations.

I wish I could offer the option of voting for a mainstream party that believes in governing for the majority of people without stealing their tax dollars. Not in Canada, not with any of these parties.

Have a Merry Election and it doesn't matter what you do, it will be wrong.

 

[dirtydan]

on the political spectrum, the conservatives would be very much similar to the american democrats (states politic is more conservative to begin with), so liberals and ndp would definately be considered as "left-wing" media by usa standards.

The Conservatives in Canada would be more like the Republicans in the US.

also, about the political alignments with profs and teachers, aren't there like 10 socialist instructors for every 1 conservative? not to turn this into a left vs right thread, but when people in my age group doesn't understand the concept of fiscal responsibility and the difference between conservatism and fascism, something is definately wrong

In my university days the profs I had were pretty much a mix on the political spectrum. Some were on the left, others on the right and some were int he middle. The profs I respected the most were those who went out of they way to make sure political views opposite of their own got a fair hearing.

What Kent and the Conservatives fail to recognize is they shouldn't be imposing their views on others but rather just people make up their own minds. I lean leftward because it is what I discovered of myself. It wasn't because some leftie profs brainwashed me.

Lastly there is a world of difference between fiscal responsibility and fiscal conservativism. That latter does not always entail responsibility.

 

[dirtydan]

And what great things have Chretien or Martin done for us in the past 10 years? Try to give me at least one example. Please remember these two jokers were part of the same government for most of that time.

Balanced the books. I remember the Mulroney government pledging year in year out to get the annual deficit to under $30 billion. They never did it. If you are firm believer than the books must always be balanced every year then acknowledge that has been the Liberals and not the Conservatives that achieved it.

And why does support for the Liberals remain higher than support for the Conservatives. Well for starters the Conservatives are always blaming some one for their shortcomings. One example is the constant chatter about media bias.

Added to that is the Liberals have been far better at getting support from a broad spectrum of Canadians, people in the middle, moderately to the right and moderately to the left. The Conservatives have repeatedly failed to do so.

All the Conservatives have in their arsenal is to repeat over and over again that the Liberals are corrupt and the they are not the Liberals. Once the Conservatives are forced into talking about their party policies they start losing support. When one repeats something long enough whether what is being said is true or not, it becomes accepted as the truth.

 

[dirtydan]

Damn, I love politics, where 50% of the people come together in the task of dividing themselves along arbitrary lines.

First, poll came out today (not sure if many saw it), but the Liberals are back above the Conservatives by more than the margin of error after only a weekend. Just goes to show that as much as Canadians try to get mad at the government for doing something wrong, we're just too apathetic to sustain it. The whole thing is people who weren't going to vote Liberal EVER, trying to sway the minds of the people who are too lazy to get up off the couch and do something, like vote.

My two cents for now, more change later

I don't think it is so much the voters being apathetic but rather them simply not seeing the Conservatives as a good enough alternative to the Liberals. Be it fair or not Canadians still see the Conservatives as the Reform and as the Alliance. If the Conservatives had chosen a prominent Progressive-Conservative as their leader (ie: Peter McKay) and had more PC MP's in prominent roles then I think the party would be stronger and a real threat to the Liberals. Other than McKay, where are the other former PC MP's? It seems to me they have been relegated to the backbenches and forgotten about.

 

[dirtydan]

remember to look both side of the coin. wasn't it the liberal party back in the 30's that prevent jewish refugees from seeking asylum?

Yes you're right on that one. Only until after WW2 did the Liberal Party become such a voice for progressive social policy. They talked about it a lot, but always found excuses not implement it when in power. Now with said the Conservatives back then were just a bigotted and racist, and likely more so, than the Liberals.

 

[dirtydan]

Harper talks the talk

Merry Election

Mr. Layton has abandoned the warm dirty bed of the Liberal Pickpockets and is now shopping his party out.

The Conservatives and Bloc Quebecois say that Mr. Layton has to supply the bed if he wants them because he has spurned their offers of a menage d' trois too many times in the past.

It should be interesting to see if Mr. Layton and his NDP will actually use one of their own opposition days to introduce a motion of non-confidence in the Liberal government. The Conservative and Bloc Quebecois have made it quite clear that they won't be using one of their opposition days to introduce such a motion.

Here are some facts which are distasteful to Conservative types:

1) The Conservatives supported the Liberal government on the budget.

2) The NDP isn't propping up the Liberals because there has not been a confidence vote since the budget.

3) The NDP have kept their options open, making conditional any support for the Liberals.

4) Harper has constantly berated the NDP for what he sees as propping up the Liberals

5) Now that NDP leans towards bringing the government down, Harper suddenly doesn't want an election.

So my friend if Jack Layton doesn't have much credibility in your eyes, then what about Stephen Harper who talks the talk but can't walk the walk.

 

[Ilovethemall]

bottom line

None of the parties will call an election that has people viting at or near x-mas....the party that does will likely be punished for it by the voters.....and gee whiz, you think getting in power isn't their first priority.

Sadly, I fear for Canada, the Liberals will win the next election - because of Ontario votting. The frenchies will elect separatists and the west will mostly elect Conservatives with a few nutjob ndp'ers tossed in.

So, we will basically have 3 countries - Quebec will vote for separation - and this time the Liberals will not be able to bribe them into staying. The west will not want to be part of a country that is ruled by Ontario and there you have the potential for 3 nations - the only good of all this? Finally I can say that the Leafs are truly not Canadian.

Our country is about to head down the shitter.

 

[Arty10]

Balanced the books. I remember the Mulroney government pledging year in year out to get the annual deficit to under $30 billion. They never did it. If you are firm believer than the books must always be balanced every year then acknowledge that has been the Liberals and not the Conservatives that achieved it.

This quote is only partly true....true there was deficit when Mulroney left power. Why is there no deficit today? There is no deficit because of the GST brought in by Mulroney. Remember Chretian's famous quote during the election campaign before his first term, "Read my lips no GST." Chretain used this ploy to get elected but did not scrap the GST because he realized he needed it to balance the budget. So if the GST was Brian Mulroney's and Chretian used the GST tax dollars to get rid of the deficit. Who really should get credit for cleaning up the deficit? Should Mulroney for creating the GST or Chretian for lying about scrapping it?