Canadian Hypocrites?

[Ilovethemall]

I know many of you are quite happy to stick it to the U.S. and one way to do that would be to sell energy etc. to China - I agree it is a pretty good tactic.

BUT - weren't we all a little embarassed watching Mr. Dithers stand there as the Chinese PM denied human rights abuses, told the Dalai Lama to do something useful and give up Tibet, deny any espionage in Canada?

Seems like us proud self righteous Canucks are quite willing to do business with a tyrant when it suits our needs. Any thoughts out there in Perb land?

Should we do business with the Chinese?

 

[ace85]

Canada v China

Paul Martin: "Mr. China, in Canada we are very princpled we care about a social safety net and human rights. We would like to business with you but we have some malor concerns.

Mr. China: "I don't know what you are talking about we have none of those issues in our great land."

Paul Martin: "Was that a public denial, ....uh OK that is good enough for me, where do we sign."

People may say that if I think Canada's national identity is weak and a tad hypocritical that I should just leave.

I counter that I do not share those feelings, and I am confident that an era of personal responsibilty is slowly returning to Canada. If we can just grow up and lose our "I am defined by what I have in relation to what you have insecurities" we would be a little bit better off.

Why do I live here??? I was born here and my family is here (responsibility), and despite the weather in Alberta, I like the geography (not over crowded). Alberta has a strong government and common sense leadership, other than the national presence from Ottawa it is actually not that different that some of the underpopulated areas of the US, but with the "Biggest and Best around Benefits".

 

[Ilovethemall]

free Alberta

I live out on the wet coast and I say it is time to Free Alberta!! Also, it would be nice if BC came along.......see ya eastern fucking annoying Canada - suck our dicks as you wallow in debt!

 

[LonelyGhost]

Seems like us proud self righteous Canucks are quite willing to do business with a tyrant when it suits our needs.

yes, we do business with the USA everyday ...

 

[sirlickheralot]

yes, we do business with the USA everyday ...

Damn you LonelyGhost you stole the first line that popped into my head when I read that line.

 

[Adamantine Nose]

Not only are we guilty of doing business with as many tyrants as we can fit in a boardroom, we are economically tyranical ourselves, nationally and internationally.

What are the reps of Canadian oil, logging and mining ops in some countries when they comply (with full knowledge) with corrupt gov'ts to hire para-millitary death squads? Ask the people whose villages are flooded when a tailings pond breaks. This shit is going on from southeast Asia to Central and South America to Africa. Should I even mention the environmental shit? No, we'll stick with human rights. Canada's military and economic involvment in the Gulf Wars, Afghanistan, Haiti (RCMP), Somalia, our arms industry...fuckin' shameful.

The poverty inside our own country, urban and rural. The on-going abuse and neglect of aboriginal peoples (ever visited a poor reserve? It's like the third world with satellite dishes. And please READ about the issues in detail, don't just fling out doughnut shop shit. No Barabra Bush-like comments please.) The current new 'patriot act north', Bill C-36, that swept up Muslim people.

There's a lot more and the info's out there, occasionally even on CBC. I've thought that there could easily be a reverse of that show that makes fun of Americans and their lack of knowledge about the international and Canadian scene. That smug, self-righteous shit really makes me sick. We trade on our 'Best Country in The World' marketing, and bury our heads in the sand. We are as bad as any other G-8 nation on earth, in many ways. In our case, we prefer the slow, starve-them-out approach. To say that we aren't as bad because we don't aggressively mass murder doesn't make us better. We just let the U.S. do it for us, and then apply for the 're-building' contracts. We're spineless hypocrites in denial, and I wish we would wake up. We could build a world that was amazing. Go ahead, flame away.

 

[LonelyGhost]

Damn you LonelyGhost you stole the first line that popped into my head when I read that line.

well, i was up early and fuelled by righteous indignation and fresh coffee ...

 

[Adamantine Nose]

Rather than argue, I'll provide a few sites with info about Canadian/U.S. involvment in Haiti. You can find more on your own.

http://outofhaiti.ca/

http://auto_sol.tao.ca/node/view/1482?PHPSESSID=b6bb94fc5f31f57490be739de7aa0bf3

http://www.flashpoints.net/archive/archive-2004-Haiti.html

What would I have done in Somalia if my C.O. had ordered me to shoot a teenager in the back for looting stuff? I'd have told him to go fuck himself, straight up, and take the consequences. Whose ass was on the line in Somalia? After Nuremburg, the excuse of 'just following orders' doesn't cut it anymore.

And even from the perspective of being in theatre when your ass really is on the line, look at Dallaire in Rwanda. How do you think he feels now? Would you have waited for permission from Clinton or the U.N.?

You have to do what's right and that's hard.

 

[dbrw42]

What would I have done in Somalia if my C.O. had ordered me to shoot a teenager in the back for looting stuff? I'd have told him to go fuck himself, straight up, and take the consequences. Whose ass was on the line in Somalia? After Nuremburg, the excuse of 'just following orders' doesn't cut it anymore.

A few Somalia facts. The first few months the Airborne arrested looters and then turned them over to the Somali "authorities"(what authorities existed in a country wracked by civil war) who then let them go. The Airborne were catching the same guys again and again. The Airborne then asked the local Somali's what to do to stop the looters, and the answer was to shoot a few of them(this was standard practice in Somalia.) The Airborne's commander then authorized the shooting of looters in the legs. The commander of 2 Commando then told his troops instead of shooting, that if a looter wound up with a few extra bruises nothing would be said. Unfortunately, both commanders and everybody in the Airborne was taking an anti-malarial drug called Mefloquine, which nobody in the Airborne knew was still in the expeimental stages, nobody in the Airborne knew not to consume alcohol while taking it(all troops were allowed 2 beers per day while off-duty) and nobody in the Airborne knew that the drug causes psychotic side-effects, although they figured out that the raging nightmares a lot of guys were getting Tuesday nights were related to the Mefloquine pills they were taking Tuesdays. (Shidane Arone was beaten to death on Tuesday night.)

So take a bunch of guys who spend their days following orders and learning and practicing ways to kill people, give them a drug that makes them psychotic, send to Somalia and wait.

 

[luckydog71]

A few Somalia facts. The first few months the Airborne arrested looters and then turned them over to the Somali "authorities"(what authorities existed in a country wracked by civil war) who then let them go. The Airborne were catching the same guys again and again. The Airborne then asked the local Somali's what to do to stop the looters, and the answer was to shoot a few of them(this was standard practice in Somalia.) The Airborne's commander then authorized the shooting of looters in the legs. The commander of 2 Commando then told his troops instead of shooting, that if a looter wound up with a few extra bruises nothing would be said. Unfortunately, both commanders and everybody in the Airborne was taking an anti-malarial drug called Mefloquine, which nobody in the Airborne knew was still in the expeimental stages, nobody in the Airborne knew not to consume alcohol while taking it(all troops were allowed 2 beers per day while off-duty) and nobody in the Airborne knew that the drug causes psychotic side-effects, although they figured out that the raging nightmares a lot of guys were getting Tuesday nights were related to the Mefloquine pills they were taking Tuesdays. (Shidane Arone was beaten to death on Tuesday night.)

So take a bunch of guys who spend their days following orders and learning and practicing ways to kill people, give them a drug that makes them psychotic, send to Somalia and wait.

Oh, now I understand...how could I be so stupid....

We need to give our troops more drugs and booze....then when the next Abu grab (sp?) happens we can use your lame fucking excuse...

Sorry man....US soldiers were absolutely wrong and I think they will serve jail time for their crimes.

What happened to the Canadian soldier that pulled the trigger that killed the Somalian? I think they gave him 5 demerits.

 

[The Lizard King]

US soldiers were absolutely wrong and I think they will serve jail time for their crimes

Luckydog, you're bang on but what are they going to do about Laura?

 

[FuZzYknUckLeS]

A few Somalia facts. The first few months...blah, blah, blah...send to Somalia and wait.

Substantiate your facts.

 

[wildonion]

Go ahead, flame away.

Might as well invite it, that`s the only thing these right wing nuts can do... and do... and do...

Besides making fun of people different than them.
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=34298&page=4

& from the master, the traitor to his country, Karl Rove:

According to The New York Times, Karl Rove and Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director, began a campaign this weekend to blame local and state officials. The "woefully inadequate response," said "sources close to the White House," was the fault of "bureaucratic obstacles from state and local officials."

The bottom line is they`re playing the race card. As many of you have noted, it is a racial issue that poor people suffer most in any natural or economic disaster. Because Katrina hit the Deep South, a great many of the poor people affected are black, especially in New Orleans.

From http://www.washingtonpost.com/ Friday, September 9, 2005
On conservative talk radio, they characterize Nagin as an irrational and incompetent local official who lost control of his city, his police force and, ultimately, his senses when he publicly dressed down the president.
It’s part of the White House strategy to avoid responsibility

 

[memyselfandI]

Ummm...wildonion. Out of curiosity, exactly what does Karl Rove OR Katrina have to do with Canadians doing business with the Chinese and the behaviour of the Canadian airborne in Somalia??

Really man, that was a completely irrelevant post given the thread....Surely there was a more appropriate place to put it (like any number of threads dealing specifically with Rove or Katrina. Crazy though I know...)

 

[luckydog71]

Luckydog, you're bang on but what are they going to do about Laura?

If the 1st lady committed the crime she should do the time.

The photo is a fake....but then you already knew that...

It is just one more of 1000's of fake charges levied against the USA. LK this is proof all of the accusations ever made against any republican any time in the last 500 years have no merit or basis in fact.

It is the liberal conspiracy to manipulate public opinion against those would only want to bring good to the world.

 

[wildonion]

Ummm...wildonion. Out of curiosity, exactly what does Karl Rove OR Katrina have to do with Canadians doing business with the Chinese and the behaviour of the Canadian airborne in Somalia??

Really man, that was a completely irrelevant post given the thread....Surely there was a more appropriate place to put it.

Has everything to do with the fact the right wing, whether on Canadian or US issues, doesn't do anything by denigrate, name call

 

[luckydog71]

... local and state officials. The "woefully inadequate response," said "sources close to the White House," was the fault of "bureaucratic obstacles from state and local officials."

So you are saying their response was adequate? That they did evacuate everyone from their city. It was a false story that 1000's remained in NO and 100s died.

And what happened to the 750 million the feds sent to N.O. to rebuild the levee.

The truth is about to come out and we will find it is much different than what the dems claimed.

 

[The Lizard King]

Luckydog, that last post of yours was the best of all time! Priceless. Thanks man, I'm in tears over here....

But regarding the original question, if Canada only did business with countries who have a spotless human rights or foreign policy record, we would be broke. We would have shitloads of lumber, cattle, fish, power, water, and oil, but no money. Sad but true.

 

[wildonion]

So you are saying their response was adequate?

God, you are an idiot. What part of this is so hard to understand -- even by you?

According to The New York Times, Karl Rove and Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director, began a campaign this weekend to blame local and state officials.

----

PLEASE, GOD, at least have them send in the 1st string! & not on dope!

 

[The Lizard King]

Has everything to do with the fact the right wing, whether on Canadian or US issues, doesn't do anything by denigrate, name call

Really? The right resorting to name calling?

God, you are an idiot. What part of this is so hard to understand -- even by you?