Canada to buy used jets

[westwoody]

If bringing up NDP governments ruining provinces we could ask what happened to the Heritage Fund?
Alberta loved reminding everyone else about it.
Where did it go?
The NDP didn't ruin it.
Alberta has a bunch of holes in the ground squirting money. But they still couldn't manage their budget.

 

[paulal]

Suncor and the oil sands were saved several times by both the federal Liberals (especially in the 1990s) and the Provincial Tories (many times over 70 years), with massive tax breaks and direct subsidies, respectively. Indeed, Suncor and its direct predecessor, called the Great Canadian Oil Sands company, have both received hundreds of billions in subsidies and tax breaks from all levels of government. But Conservatives are loathe to talk about this when they shoot their mouths off about Bombardier, who almost exclusively gets interest free loans that are a fraction of the grants, subsidies and tax/royalty breaks given today, right now, to Oil sands companies in Alberta.

Why can’t oil sands companies stand on their own two feet in 2018? Why does Canada have to subsidize Oil sands companies? Why does the Canadian taxpayer need to prop them up! Come on Storm rider, tell us!!

Or you can always read, learn and change your mind. It’s allowed you know, to be wrong.

Time to face facts: Conservatives have two standards, one for themselves, and another lower one for everyone else, especially if they speak French.

 

[Tugela]

The "Eurofighter" you speak of will reach it's life expectancy by 2040.I cant fathom even the Lieberals being STUPID enough to by jet fighters from Russia or China.

The Lieberals should not have cancelled the F-35 program as it was the most viable option not to mention the billions already spent on it.....then again the Lieberals SHOULD not have purchased 3 shitty used submarines from Britain so the plan to cancel the F-35 was not much of a surprise.Why buy a cutting edge jet fighter to replace the aged CF-18's when you can kick the can down the road and use the excuse of a trade dispute to short change Canada's armed forces and then kick the can down the road further......lots of money for Social Programs and "refugees" though and why not right!Lots of extra money from Carbon Taxes etc which will rape Canadian taxpayers of their hard earned money for the Lieberals to SPEND.....not responsibly of course....nor prudently.If Trudeau wins another term a LINE item in the budget for 2020 will be for "carbon tax credits" which is Liberalese for "Canadian Tax Payer Money" being sent to 3rd world countries to purchase "carbon credits" because Canada has not reduced it's CO2 levels under the UN manadated "Climate Change" plan.Pretty fucked since Canada produces 2% of worldwide green house gas emissions and yet Canada as a country has one of the biggest land masses and the smallest popoulation to land mass ratios.

Sorry for the last bit but I got on a RANT.

SR

The F-35 is an aircraft designed for a war that Canada will never fight. It is primarily intended for offensive action against a super power, and Canada will never be involved in something like that. Having some aircraft like that might be important for the US, but not for Canada. Even for the US it is questionable whether it is worth it, since so many compromises were made in it's design.

We would have been better off with lower cost aircraft more suited for defensive action and designed for the specific environmental conditions in Canada.

The main reason Canada wanted to order the things in the first place was to indirectly subsidize the US investment in developing the aircraft. But since the US are being shits when it comes to our aircraft industry, I don't see why we should continue to help out theirs. Screw them.

 

[overdone]

Storm rider completely ignores the fact that oil sands companies were given a gigantic, over-the-top break on royalties for non-renewable resource extraction in the 1990s (ie. when oil prices were below $20/barrel and the viability of Suncor was threatened). These grotesquely unfair breaks are almost completely intact today.

Today, the huge “payout” in taxes isn’t being borne by the corporations operating in the oil sands, but by their employees. Storm Rider, why are you and so many Tory acolytes full of hatred towards anything from Quebec? Why not admit the truth? The Alberta oil sands companies are being given our non-renewable natural resources for a song, getting exemptions that are saving them hundreds of billions in subsidies each and every year:

Case 1: Bombardier, repayable interest free loans worth at most one or two billion. Jobs created; 50,000. Long term prospects: excellent
Case 2: Oinkle sands companies, rock bottom royalties that no other Canadian mining companies get, worth over $150 billion each year. Jobs created; 200,000. Long term prospects: finite.

As a taxpayer, I want to invest in option one each and every time. Stop pretending that there’s a plot to screw Alberta. It’s a tired conspiracy theory that holds no water. Alberta and Albertans are getting, by a country mile, the biggest tax break in Canadian history. The big four oil sands companies are stoking anger and paranoia because it suits their financial interest to do so. You’re being used as a pawn dude, having someone point at an incident down the street while they pick your pocket.

lol, Bombardier long term prospects excellent, hahaha

they can't even sell their planes at a profit, they've been on the gov't tit for decades


biggest tax break, Alberta? really?

Quebec 200 BILLION and counting in equalization payments

or isn't that from taxes?

If bringing up NDP governments ruining provinces we could ask what happened to the Heritage Fund?
Alberta loved reminding everyone else about it.
Where did it go?
The NDP didn't ruin it.
Alberta has a bunch of holes in the ground squirting money. But they still couldn't manage their budget.

it's still there, just been raided constantly, still is by the current gov't

same shit different pile, just even worse now, than the last 10yrs, managing the budget that is

Time to face facts: Conservatives have two standards, one for themselves, and another lower one for everyone else, especially if they speak French.

and you could replace Conservatives with Liberal

just look at what Sniffles the Feminist is doing, you don't have to dig very deep

looks a lot like what the Devil Harper was accused of

just a different shade of bullshit

 

[thodisipagal]

I've stopped reading anything written by Storm Rider because of his dogmatic ideological attitude and behavior, not to speak of his invective-filled posts, name calling, etc -- that anything done by Justin Trudeau is bad, anything done by BC NDP is bad, anything progressive is communist, blah blah blah. I mean, really, is there anything new or objective in what he says?

 

[westwoody]

The obsession and hatred for Trudeau is disturbing. If this kind of hatred was directed at an escort it would not be tolerated.

Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber come to mind when reading these posts.

 

[Tugela]

I've stopped reading anything written by Storm Rider because of his dogmatic ideological attitude and behavior, not to speak of his invective-filled posts, name calling, etc -- that anything done by Justin Trudeau is bad, anything done by BC NDP is bad, anything progressive is communist, blah blah blah. I mean, really, is there anything new or objective in what he says?

People with opinions determined by dogma rarely have anything of value to say. They are best ignored.

 

[Mrmotorscooter]

The obsession and hatred for Trudeau is disturbing. If this kind of hatred was directed at an escort it would not be tolerated.

Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber come to mind when reading these posts.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4003755/injured-veteran-edmonton-town-hall-justin-trudeau/
Watching Trudeau go into the lions den is admirable and he faces the tough questions but he is also full of shit. He campaigned on helping the veterans but nothing has changed, this injured vet has a point. If you are seriously injured on the job you can get a lifetime disability pension and work at another job you won’t lose that. This fellow retrained himself and has a job but he deserves a disability pension as well he has lost a lot and he is not getting it. The libs have been very two faced and gave false hope to these guys, not that the Tories did any better politicians for the most part are all full of shit. The vets deserve our support especially when you see how they piss our money away on stupid foreign aid programs and that $ never goes where it’s supposed to anyway. Politicians are fair game for criticism that’s what they signed up for and these guys have a lot to answer for, not that they really give a shit anyway, it’s just politics!

 

[Smoothmover]

Remind me what we need fighter jets for?

Who are we fighting and where is the threat?

We should have fighterjets, they should all be sitting in a hanger somewhere with minimal flight hours on them

There hasn't been a war where Canada was threatened in 50 years

 

[badbadboy]

Remind me what we need fighter jets for?

Who are we fighting and where is the threat?

We should have fighterjets, they should all be sitting in a hanger somewhere with minimal flight hours on them

There hasn't been a war where Canada was threatened in 50 years

Being part of NATO requires us to provide military personnel and equipment to support aggression against our allies or be a part of supporting the war on terror. Army, Airforce and Navy have been actively supporting other countries for decades. It would be a sad day if we just threw in the towel and not be able to defend ourselves. No matter how small our military is compared to other countries of similar population and GDP.

Typically we have provided less than half of our expected contribution based upon GDP etc.

CF18's also do maritime patrols on all three coastlines.

 

[westwoody]

CF18's also do maritime patrols on all three coastlines.

Canada claims a lot of the Arctic for its own.
We all had those roll-up maps in grade school showing Canada going right up to the North Pole.

That was then...this is now.
A lot of area that was permanent ice pack until recently is now open water.
China and many other countries claim this open water is "international" water and demand free passage through it.
Some Euro fishing boats, actually factory ships, have been strip mining Arctic waters using the same argument.
Russia is also claiming territory that was historically considered Canadian.

Canada needs to significantly increase its northern forces to protect our interests.

This is the new reality, distance means nothing, these countries are banging on our doors.
They are not going away.

 

[storm rider]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4003755/injured-veteran-edmonton-town-hall-justin-trudeau/
Watching Trudeau go into the lions den is admirable and he faces the tough questions but he is also full of shit. He campaigned on helping the veterans but nothing has changed, this injured vet has a point. If you are seriously injured on the job you can get a lifetime disability pension and work at another job you won’t lose that. This fellow retrained himself and has a job but he deserves a disability pension as well he has lost a lot and he is not getting it. The libs have been very two faced and gave false hope to these guys, not that the Tories did any better politicians for the most part are all full of shit. The vets deserve our support especially when you see how they piss our money away on stupid foreign aid programs and that $ never goes where it’s supposed to anyway. Politicians are fair game for criticism that’s what they signed up for and these guys have a lot to answer for, not that they really give a shit anyway, it’s just politics!

How dare you point out the elephant in the room vis-a-vis that the Trudeau government happily spends say 500 MILLION to import 50,000 Syrian Refugees(in reality economic migrants) or say the 20 MILLION Trudeau gave to the crooked Clinton Foundation after Killary LOST the election....or heaven forfend the paltry 200 GRAND it cost Canadian TAX PAYERS for Trudeau to take a vacation on the private island owned by the Aga Khan....and so on and so forth.

When it comes right down to it when Liberals make a promise is is Liberal double speak which in reality means the opposite.Good example is how the Trudeau Liberals "promised" increased child family benefits meaning "more money" for families than the Harper Conservatives had already DELIVERED and were going to increase.In reality under the Conservatives those benefits and credits were LESS than what the Lieberals "promised" but they were TAX EXEMPT....yes under the Lieberals families get MORE money but it is TAXED and that ended up costing the average Canadian Family of 4 $847 more in TAXES last year.....and that is a FACT.

I do agree that the Liberals are fucking over Veterans and the guy who lost a leg AND retrained himself and then entered a new form of employment should still get a disability pension as he lost a leg in the service of Canada's armed forces....the nastiest thing Trudeau has possibly suffered is maybe an ingrown toe nail when he worked as a snowboard instructor in his younger days as he lived the life of a dilletante trust fund baby.

SR

 

[badbadboy]

Boeing approved to participate in Fighter Jet Competition

Five companies have been approved for a renewed Fighter Jet competition to replace the CF 18'S.

• Boeing's Super Hornet
• Lockheed Martin's F-35's
• Dassault from France
• Saab from Sweden
• Airbus BAE Systems with the Eurofighter

Last June, the Government met with all the competitors minus Boeing at the Paris Air Show. Boeing isn't commenting if they will bid for the CF 18 replacements. This was before the trade dispute with Bombardier broke down the talks to buy the F18 Super Hornets.

Interesting the F-35's are again part of the evaluation. Press indicates the F-35 still has reliability issues and is still the most expensive fighter jet in service.



https://www.canadianmanufacturing.com/procurement/feds-approves-boeings-participation-upcoming-fighter-competition-208595/?custnum=1774585&title=President&utm_source=CMO&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=180223J

 

[storm rider]

Five companies have been approved for a renewed Fighter Jet competition to replace the CF 18'S.

• Boeing's Super Hornet
• Lockheed Martin's F-35's
• Dassault from France
• Saab from Sweden
• Airbus BAE Systems with the Eurofighter

Last June, the Government met with all the competitors minus Boeing at the Paris Air Show. Boeing isn't commenting if they will bid for the CF 18 replacements. This was before the trade dispute with Bombardier broke down the talks to buy the F18 Super Hornets.

Interesting the F-35's are again part of the evaluation. Press indicates the F-35 still has reliability issues and is still the most expensive fighter jet in service.



https://www.canadianmanufacturing.com/procurement/feds-approves-boeings-participation-upcoming-fighter-competition-208595/?custnum=1774585&title=President&utm_source=CMO&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=180223J

You can pretty much expect this issue to drag on till past the next Federal Election in 2019.If Canadians sadly elect the idiot Trudeau and give him another mandate the fighter jet purchase will languish just as the replacement of the Sea King helicopters did under the Lieberals when Chretien was at the helm much to the suffering of the Canadian Airforce.

No costs on the latest Trudeau Family vacation though....where he went on a "State Visit" to India and took along his wife and kids as well as the nannies and other hangers-on and indulged himself on a cos-play fantasy for a week at taxpayer expence and then had the scandal of a man convicted of attemped murder wind up on the guest list of 2 swanky parties and showed up at 1 of them.Of course the Shiney pony did not attend the House of Commons today because he would have been pressed with questions about this....far easier to just not attend.

SR

 

[badbadboy]

The obsession and hatred for Trudeau is disturbing.

We are unable to have any semblance of an adult debate without this constant chirping about Liberals and Trudeau. It is so unnecessary but that is the only tune his brain is trained to sing.

One has to only reflect on former Conservative PM's like Lyin Brian ( Oerlikon ) http://articles.latimes.com/1987-01-23/news/mn-890_1_high-mulroney and whatever Harper was called. He was definitely an arrogant prick who tried to do a $20B Directed Tender to Lockheed Martin for the supply of 65 F-35's. Cost plus spares, training and logistics from DND would have skyrocketed and with our crap dollar these numbers would have taken the entire DND budget for years. This was initially based on an $88M per plane costing. Conservative Government of the day changed it's forecast; it was then upped to $450M per plane which made the costs closer to $30B not including a $0.76 Canadian dollar

I know he won't read it but here is the sad history of the whole F-35 mess that actually brought on a non-Confidence defeat of the Conservative Government and eventually brought the Liberals back to form the government. This was the whole tale of the Harper era showing it's corruption and arrogance towards anyone who questioned them. Note in the wiki is a passage where IP addresses were traced back to DND indicating personnel within DND were erasing passages in the wiki that were unfavourable to the Conservative Government of the day.

Then again, like Republicans to the South, Conservatives are unable to retain a sense of history; where we were back in 2010 and where we are today seems meaningless to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_Canadian_procurement

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canada-and-the-f-35-the-ups-and-downs-of-a-controversial-fighter-jet-purchase-2

 

[rlock]

If they had bought the Eurofighter (years ago), they would not be in this mess now. Sure, it's a "generation 4.5" plane, so there's already other planes out there that are its equal. But unlike the F35, it's not going to be combat ready "someday" - it's already in full service now, and the price is not so high that it would break the budget.

The top brass always insist on buying American, even though all the Euro planes are NATO-compliant and could bring just as much economic benefit. They are also very close to the US defense companies, many "retiring" to cushy positions with the very companies they just recommended for procurement contracts. (Government / industry / lobbying is a really incestuous scene, but especially in the arms trade.)
So basically, we get stuck with a really limited selection: the old F18 hornet's we basically already have; the newer Super Hornets (and having to eat shit from Boeing as they try to drive our civilian aerospace industry out of business); or the ultra-expensive Lockheed F35 which might never be as ready or good as they claim.

Politically, this comes out as a choice between an inadequate stop-gap, or a hyper-pricey white elephant.