Asian Fever

Buying a home vs maxxing an rrsp retirement strategy...

chilli

Member
Jul 25, 2005
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A recent thread about home ownership got me thinking.

One of the core reasons for me wanting to buy a home is that when I retire I would like to live rent free.

BUT I also believe banks are crooks getting to frontload interest charges to such a degree that we end up paying 2 to 2.5x a homes worth for the priviledge of using the banks money to purchase a home.

While a rrsp gives us tax free savings and an instant deduction.

Yes I know in a perfect world you would want to do both, but let's just say you had to choose.

Which one do you think makes more sense economically?
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
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BUT I also believe banks are crooks getting to frontload interest charges to such a degree that we end up paying 2 to 2.5x a homes worth for the priviledge of using the banks money to purchase a home.
I find that to be a really ignorant thing to say. It's basic simple math and how loans are amortized, nothing to do with front loading. Nobody is putting a gun on your head to buy a home. If you don't like it then save until you have enough money to buy a home outright and save the interest.

As for which strategy is best, it would depend on your income level as well as expectations, amongst other things, upon retirement. No financial planners in their right mind would answer your question without knowing more about your present and future financial positions.
 

overdone

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Apr 26, 2007
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I find that to be a really ignorant thing to say. It's basic simple math and how loans are amortized, nothing to do with front loading. Nobody is putting a gun on your head to buy a home. If you don't like it then save until you have enough money to buy a home outright and save the interest.
LOL

ignorant?

save until you can buy outright?

who wants to wait til their 65 to buy a home, lol

basic math

take rent and other living expenses then see what's left on a average salary of a Canadian or even two and add it up then see how long it takes to save for the average value of house, then factor in what the price of a house might be in the 20-35 years to save that much, lol

if it was that easy don't you think everyone would be doing it, :rolleyes:
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
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LOL

ignorant?

save until you can buy outright?

who wants to wait til their 65 to buy a home, lol

basic math
I said that in response to the OP who said "banks are crooks getting to frontload interest charges to such a degree that we end up paying 2 to 2.5x a homes worth". But you obviously took it out of context to show how quick and observant you are...
 

overdone

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Apr 26, 2007
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yes, and I responded to you calling him ingnorant

when you basically said something dumb

telling someone to save and buy a house outright is ignorant, plain and simple in reality
 
Jun 9, 2003
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My retirement strategy...



 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
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telling someone to save and buy a house outright is ignorant, plain and simple in reality
Do you have reading comprehension problems, trouble following conversations? I did not tell the OP to do that, I suggested it as an alternate solution as he mentioned that he dislikes paying so much interest.:doh:
 

DiscreetOG

New member
May 7, 2009
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RRSP vs Home Ownership

I don't know if there is any easy answer, as stated by others, because so much, especially home ownership as an inverstment comes down to the market (Vancouver, Fraser Valley, etc./ Condo,Townhouse, Single Family Home, etc.) you are getting into and the time of your purchase.
One thing to keep in mind, the appeciation on your home residence and/or equity you have in it, is one of the few things that goes untaxed when you sell it. RRSP's, while they give you a income tax deduction when the contribution is made, and any gain (interest) is not taxed, you still pay tax when you withdraw the funds after you retire. Granted, most people will be in a much lower tax bracket when you withdraw the funds than when they made the contribution.

Also, if I was to do it all over again (buying a home), I'd probably look at a vehicle like Manulife One. Using a vehicle like it, from what I know, whould drastically reduce the amount of mortgage interest you pay over the life of your mortgage saving you big $$. However, you would have to be very disciplined with your money for it to work for you.
 

overdone

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Apr 26, 2007
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suggesting it or stating it was ignorant because it isn't a realistic alternative for 99% of the pop.

plus I didn't say "you" told him to do it

I said "telling someone" which would be a suggestion

not a order
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
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suggesting it or stating it was ignorant because it isn't a realistic alternative for 99% of the pop.
I guess I should have suggested robbing a bank...:rolleyes:

I am done arguing the finer points of ignorance with you as you seem to be such an expert on the topic.
 

john12345

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Dec 22, 2010
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Investing

I was told by my financial adviser that buying a house compared to investing the money, investing wins hands down. If you buy it as a HOME and not an investment then it's now in a different category.
I think someone else mentioned speaking to a financial planner is probable the best thing you could do as they can see the BIG PICTURE:confused:
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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I guess I should have suggested robbing a bank...:rolleyes:
another alternative would be to save up enough money to buy a motorcycle then sell grass for a living - that way you could own a bunch of houses lol
 

Aerts

Member
Sep 18, 2007
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determine what the least amount of money it will realistically take to keep a roof over your head (that may be renting, may be owning a small condo, probably won't be a house) and then max out other investments. Money is always money. If you own a $800,000 home outright... sure you own it, but you can't just liquidate that immediately on a whim. Wouldn't you rather have $800,000 making you dividends and annuities, and using what you need for rent as needed? I don't get why someone would want to rent a house out for income either. Unless you only want to pay the bare minimum on the mortgage and spend the profit immediately. If you own a $400,000 house outright and rent it out, you are not going to make more money when it's all said and done that you would in the market.
 

FunSugarDaddy

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Aug 15, 2008
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I was told by my financial adviser that buying a house compared to investing the money, investing wins hands down. If you buy it as a HOME and not an investment then it's now in a different category.
I think someone else mentioned speaking to a financial planner is probable the best thing you could do as they can see the BIG PICTURE:confused:
Well I have two financial planning designations, so that makes me a financial planner. But that said well people tell me which is a better option between buying real estate or investing in the market, my standard answer is I can't tell you where either market will be 10 years from now so I don't have a clue. And personally I'd run, not walk, from anyone who says that they do.

What we do know is that house prices are historically high in the lower mainland relative to rents. We also know that when people bought houses they didn't make money just on the fact the houses went up, they made most of their money by leveraging.

So for the most part buying a house is a leveraged investment that isn't liquid, and a combination of investments in bonds, stocks, REIT's etc. is a diversified approach and is more liquid. Tax wise a house you live in if it's your principal residence doesn't get taxed upon the sale. But if you're near the top tax bracket and you're an employee with T4 income, you almost can't afford not to put money in an RRSP because it's one of the few tax deferral strategies available.

And if you can do both, buy a home and put money into an RRSP, then one of the best strategies out there is to max your RRSP and put the tax refund against the mortgage. (assuming you never took out a loan to buy the RRSP)

One also has to factor into it your opportunity cost. What's the cost of renting verses, mortgage interest, property taxes, repairs etc. If you can rent cheaper than the operating costs of living in the same house and you feel we're at the top of the market, then renting would seem to make more sense. If you plan on travelling, that too could tip the equation in favour of renting.

For the most part I view buying a house that you want to live in, to be partly a life style decision, not just an investment. For example, my wife pretty much said we're not having kids until we've bought a place, so for woman it can sometimes be that nesting urge that's the main determining factor.

But honestly a financial advisor, planner or whatever one wants to call themselves has no control over the markets, (any of them, including real estate) so the best they can do is put together a plan most appropriate for your objectives, and if it requires investments that they be diversified and whenever possible use low cost products such as exchange traded funds, bonds etc. rather than mutual funds.

That's a bit of a generalization but most studies show that costs are a huge factor over the long run when it comes to returns.

And any plan should also take into account any tax issues, so bonds should mostly be in RRSP's, dividends mostly in non registered accounts and equities, depending on the risk, either in a non registered account or a TFSA. (unless you're an American citizen, then TFSA's are a hassle)

There'a another option which are annuities which can also have a place within your investment options. I recently read an excellent article on this by Moshe Milevsky, PHD, who makes a very compelling case for investing a % of your portfolio in various types of annuities. And for those a little worried about what they are, essentially if you have a defined benefit plan, you have an annuity.
 

storm rider

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Dec 6, 2008
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I am not going to split hairs and argue about which choice would be better.With regards to a mortgage costing 2-2.5 X the cost of the home over an ammortization of 25 years....that is pretty much dead on target due to how mortgages are structured....in the first 10 years you pay jack shit towards the principal....when you get your yearly mortgage statemen you all most want to cry.....the best course of action is to have a 10-15 year ammortisation whilst making double payents and hammering the mortgage with the maximum yearly over payment...if you do that then you cut out a lot of interest....not easy to do for sure....and I sure as hell would not want to do it with a house in Vancouver that costs close to 1 Million.

Beating down a mortage is not hard to do....though you will have to cut back on the luxuries.

SR
 

chilli

Member
Jul 25, 2005
993
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Thanks guys for a ton of very thoughtful informative responses.

Wilde - "loan shark" A person or entity that charges borrowers interest above an established legal rate. Depending on where a person lives, lenders typically cannot charge more than 60% interest per annum.

While "technically" a bank is not charging you more than 60% interest per annum.

Effectively they are with how banks "front load" the interest payment.

Yes we can argue semantics, but imo what banks do is "legally" rape consumers.

So Wilde while you may think I'm ignorant, I personally think you are the one that is ignorant.

Now go troll/flame someone else's thread.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,037
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Thanks guys for a ton of very thoughtful informative responses.

Wilde - "loan shark" A person or entity that charges borrowers interest above an established legal rate. Depending on where a person lives, lenders typically cannot charge more than 60% interest per annum.

While "technically" a bank is not charging you more than 60% interest per annum.

Effectively they are with how banks "front load" the interest payment.

Yes we can argue semantics, but imo what banks do is "legally" rape consumers.

So Wilde while you may think I'm ignorant, I personally think you are the one that is ignorant.

Now go troll/flame someone else's thread.

Wow, thank you for that unique analysis drawing parallels between the bank and a loan shark and equating making interest payments to being "legally" raped. You are not ignorant at all, delusional perhaps... I will try and avoid your threads from now on.
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
5,491
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on yer ignore list
Thanks guys for a ton of very thoughtful informative responses.

Wilde - "loan shark" A person or entity that charges borrowers interest above an established legal rate. Depending on where a person lives, lenders typically cannot charge more than 60% interest per annum.

While "technically" a bank is not charging you more than 60% interest per annum.

Effectively they are with how banks "front load" the interest payment.

Yes we can argue semantics, but imo what banks do is "legally" rape consumers.

So Wilde while you may think I'm ignorant, I personally think you are the one that is ignorant.

Now go troll/flame someone else's thread.
there's a rule as old as the hills - it's called the golden rule and it goes like this, 'those that have the gold, make the rules...'

that's the way interest works, if you don't have the money to buy something you have to borrow the money... and if you have to borrow it, you pay interest on it, and the lender dictates the terms. they tried giving money away in the US and look at the meltdown that occurred as a result! at least canadian banks weren't allowed to participate in the same nonsense

i don't particularly like bankers either, but they appear to be a necessary evil. there seems to be a sense of entitlement in how you want to be able to borrow money and the terms on which you want to pay it back. i'm sorry but the real world just doesn't work that way. hard core socialist societies tend to make villains out of bankers, but i'm sure you don't want to live in zimbabwe...
 

FOOT LONG

New member
Aug 19, 2010
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excellent question. personally I would do both, I would buy some RRSP and buy a house, but not in vancouver, maybe more like surrey or coquitlam area. If your funds are limited, buy a condo instead. Unfortunately you can't win them all, but owning your own place (don't have to deal with a landlord), paying off your own mortgage and not somebodys else, and whatever you have left put in a RRSP, you should be ok when you are 65. Lets just say even if it maybe is a 1 bedroom apartment, 1 bedroom apartment is better than none?

There is no win/ win situation, but you can make the best choice that is best for your situation,:thumb:
 
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