BMW 5 Series

[sdw]

The Ford Explorer Hybrid is a Toyota Prius with a sane body. The running gear is exactly the same and comes from Toyota.

I haven't looked at the Ford Warranty on the Batteries, but the Batteries in the Prius are Warrantied for 8 years.
http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObj...ius-tK89l28F83X5Hgt1xeXliw/5.11?v169065e.html

If you lightfoot and use the brakes to keep the Battery charged, you get close to the claimed 71 mpg in flat areas. Driving up and down hills very quickly impacts the fuel mileage, so I average around 50+ mpg. Because the freeway out to Langley is hilly, I've never come close to the claimed 67 mpg for the highway. It's usually around 40 mpg. Here's the mpg page for the Prius. http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObj...us-tK89l28F83X5Hgt1xeXliw/36.11?v169040e.html

Fudd, I like the hybrids too. Think about the type of driving you typically do. Hybrids are good for around the city type driving (i.e. under 50). On the highway you will only be charging the batteries. If you do mostly highway you can probably get an efficient non-hybrid and be better off overall. I use a Escape Hybrid for my work vehicle and it love it for the balance of capacity and kind to the environment. It's a lease though cause I have heard horror stories about replacing the batteries.

Good luck, and good on you for making the environment a consideration.

 

[Sir Jim]

740

I got a 740 for the SO new in 02. Paid $120K ish

While it is a dream to drive so far I have not been impressed by the German engineering.

It now has 106K and I have had to have:

The stereo replaced @ 40,000K (Only item handled by the 60K warranty)
New radiator @ 70,000K
Fuel pump @ 80,000K
New battery @ 85,000K
Passenger electric mirror replaced
Had to go in for various sensor replacements
Now the check break lights warning is going off.
I am now on the third set of front tires.
The alignment always checks out fine.
Also on our third set of front brakes.


Meanwhile my GMC pickups just run right up to 150 - 200,000K and I trade them off with no more than oil and tires.

I won't be looking at another BMW anytime soon.

 

[Krustee]

I got a 740 for the SO new in 02. Paid $120K ish

While it is a dream to drive so far I have not been impressed by the German engineering.

It now has 106K and I have had to have:

The stereo replaced @ 40,000K (Only item handled by the 60K warranty)
New radiator @ 70,000K
Fuel pump @ 80,000K
New battery @ 85,000K
Passenger electric mirror replaced
Had to go in for various sensor replacements
Now the check break lights warning is going off.
I am now on the third set of front tires.
The alignment always checks out fine.
Also on our third set of front brakes.


Meanwhile my GMC pickups just run right up to 150 - 200,000K and I trade them off with no more than oil and tires.

I won't be looking at another BMW anytime soon.

All valid comments on the 7 series BMW.

The 5 series (especially 540) is by far the brute performance king for Bimmer & the venerable 3 series the benchmark for handling & performance in the auto industry.

The bigger the car the more the cost of maintenance & the 7 series tries to compete with the S-class Benz in luxury gadgets so just more to add to the statistical base of potential problems.

That said, IF you do your research & keep up on maintenance they can be good cars. My S-class is one of the better built ones. (2000-2006 did not live up to traditional Benz quality)

5 series has proven to be fairly well designed cars.

 

[Fudd]

If and I stress, "IF" I decide to keep the 530, what kind of repair rates can I expect and how expensive with it be to maintain. I obviously can't expect the BMW to be a problem free and reliable as a Toyota, but is its problem free and reliable enough, or should I expect to be dishig out a few thousand dollars n repairs every often? Are there any cheap BMW mechanics out there?

 

[Krustee]

If and I stress, "IF" I decide to keep the 530, what kind of repair rates can I expect and how expensive with it be to maintain. I obviously can't expect the BMW to be a problem free and reliable as a Toyota, but is its problem free and reliable enough, or should I expect to be dishig out a few thousand dollars n repairs every often? Are there any cheap BMW mechanics out there?

Smartest post you've made yet on this!

Choosing a mechanic is like choosing a "good" wife;
you need to look for honesty, integrity & intelligence...


Alright - I realize that's just a pipe dream when it comes to women but you can actually find a mechanic like that!

There are good mechanics & many many bad ones!

I will check around for who is best on Bimmers, I have one who works on my Benz but he does not do BMW.

You should expect $80 - $90 per hour rate but a fair mechanic gets a lot of work done in an hour.

go here and ask the group:
www.bmwccbc.org
or call either:
CG Motorpsports (http://www.cgmotorsports.com/) or Nixon Automotive (www.nixonautomotive.com)
Both of these shops are very well versed in the BMW 5 series and the good/bad of them.

Try the shops posted above.

DO NOT take it to a dealer! - BMW or any other dealer


I suggest you fill the tank of that 530 with premium (91+ octane) fuel from Chevron (it's the best gas) & take it on a long highway run open her up & clean out that motor.
A good highway drive that makes the engine run for longer than the normal short city stop & go can clean out the carbon build-up & restore the performance.
It really does help & everybody should do it with every car at least once a month.

Put in some Redline fuel cleaner. (you can buy it at Canadian Tire)


Read this from Automotive Helper forum:

I use the Redline complete fuel system cleaner only.
Several years ago, BMW tested fuel injector cleaners exhaustively and wound up recommending only the Redline, and from what I've heard, even private labeling it for sale at their dealerships.
It also contains a protective synthetic upper cylinder lubricant, helps remove residual moisture and prevents rust. Regular use will improve engine breathing by cleaning valves. Please take the time to read their technical info section, there's even a graph for a four cylinder Toyota.
http://www.redlineoil.com/products_fueladditives.asp
The Redline is safe for continual use. While you will probably notice a significant, immediate improvement in power with the first bottle, best results only occur over time (10-15,000 miles). Just add a small amount each time you add fuel. One bottle treats around 100 gallons.
The high temperature detergent also survives the combustion process to clean emission control components.
One of the interesting items in the tech info, is that if one injector is less than perfect, the oxygen sensor at the exhaust manifold will cause the ECM computer to richen all the injectors to compensate.
I also use Chevron gas, but have never been able to observe any benefit in the past when trying the Techron additive separately.
I also like Berryman, but that product is a solvent and I will not use it internally in the engine - I use it for cleaning external engine components.
I also use the Lucas oil products, but did not like the statement on their fuel treatment label about "burning hotter" so I do not use the fuel treatment.
Much of the power created by the Toyota engine relies upon the four valves per cylinder to improve engine breathing, increasing power roughly 30 per cent over a two valve configuration, so it helps to keep those valve faces clean to enhance efficiency.
After using Redline for several years now, I happened to do major servicing, then had a smog test performed for California registration renewal. Results were better at 120,000 miles than they were at 80,000, nearly zero on several measures, plus the Redline seems to have improved smoothness at idle.
http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic418619.htm

Start using synthetic oil in the engine 5W30 or whatever it calls for.

Pennzoil is good quality at a decent price - Wal-Mart

Don't be afraid to run the engine the way it was built to run!


It is a performance sedan & is MEANT to bring joy to driving!

JOIN a BMW club! www.bmwccbc.org

Keep it PROPERLY maintained & it will provide years of enjoyable driving!

 

[Pantherdash]

If and I stress, "IF" I decide to keep the 530, what kind of repair rates can I expect and how expensive with it be to maintain. I obviously can't expect the BMW to be a problem free and reliable as a Toyota, but is its problem free and reliable enough, or should I expect to be dishig out a few thousand dollars n repairs every often? Are there any cheap BMW mechanics out there?

Check out the repair rates at the Brian Jessel website (Google it). Last time I checked, they listed rates for common repairs. The only thing that seemed rather high was the rate for front shocks. But like I said in an earlier post I paid about $800 for a new clutch, and it seemed pretty reasonable to me. I find that the rates are a bit higher than other manufacturers but you don't need to repair as often as other cars I've had. My brakes have lasted about 3 times longer (in kilometers) on my 3 series than on a VW I had before.

I've taken my car to Bimmerhaus a few blocks away from Brian Jessel and the rates are pretty much the same, except Brian Jessel has a waiting list of about 2 weeks and Bimmerhaus usually takes me the same day.

Cheap and BMW is an oxymoron, but what you CAN expect is excellent value for your money...like going to Ivy for $140 instead of going to Tracy in New West for $100.

Panther

 

[Pantherdash]

Good sage advice there Krustee. I always use synthetic oil and I'll have to try that Redline. I take my Bimmer on the highway every once in awhile and it keeps it running nice...gotta keep that fifth gear in shape too.

Panther

 

[Krustee]

Good sage advice there Krustee. I always use synthetic oil and I'll have to try that Redline. I take my Bimmer on the highway every once in awhile and it keeps it running nice...gotta keep that fifth gear in shape too.

Panther

You should note that if your car is a 5 speed that means 5th is an overdive.

Most likely your 4th gear would be direct drive...
so technically speaking the most realiable & least wearing on the gearbox would be 4th gear as there is neither a gear reduction nor increase off the primary it is a 1:1 ratio.

But then then you already knew that & were just being modest by not sharing it with the rest of us.

 

[Pantherdash]

You should note that if your car is a 5 speed that means 5th is an overdive.

Most likely your 4th gear would be direct drive...
so technically speaking the most realiable & least wearing on the gearbox would be 4th gear as there is neither a gear reduction nor increase off the primary it is a 1:1 ratio.

But then then you already knew that & were just being modest by not sharing it with the rest of us.

Nope, no modesty. I gotta admit I did not know that. Thanks for that Krustee.

Panther

 

[sdw]

One little cravat on taking a car out onto the highway when you first acquire it.

IF, the car has been driven by a "little old lady" who never brought the rpms into the orange on the tach, driving the car at high revs will damage the engine.

This is because the swept area of the piston rings is confined to the limit imposed by the connecting rod and bearing without compression and stretch. When operating in the orange or red, the bearing compresses and the connecting rod stretches. This causes the swept area of the rings to increase slightly. That little area that hasn't been swept will catch the piston rings.

Your first highway drive should be planned so that you cruise for a half hour just below the orange, then another half hour 500 rpm higher, then another half hour 500 rpm higher, etc.

Once you have had the car operating in the red for half an hour, take it in for an oil change. This will get rid of any metal shavings that resulted from increasing the piston's swept area.

I'm sure nobody driving a car previously owned by Mr O/Krustee or even me has to worry about this, but I've seen a number of good cars destroyed because the new owner drove like me right after getting the car from the widowed Sunday driver.

Smartest post you've made yet on this!

Choosing a mechanic is like choosing a "good" wife;
you need to look for honesty, integrity & intelligence...


Alright - I realize that's just a pipe dream when it comes to women but you can actually find a mechanic like that!

There are good mechanics & many many bad ones!

I will check around for who is best on Bimmers, I have one who works on my Benz but he does not do BMW.

You should expect $80 - $90 per hour rate but a fair mechanic gets a lot of work done in an hour.


Try the shops posted above.

DO NOT take it to a dealer! - BMW or any other dealer


I suggest you fill the tank of that 530 with premium (91+ octane) fuel from Chevron (it's the best gas) & take it on a long highway run open her up & clean out that motor.
A good highway drive that makes the engine run for longer than the normal short city stop & go can clean out the carbon build-up & restore the performance.
It really does help & everybody should do it with every car at least once a month.

Put in some Redline fuel cleaner. (you can buy it at Canadian Tire)


Read this from Automotive Helper forum:


Start using synthetic oil in the engine 5W30 or whatever it calls for.

Pennzoil is good quality at a decent price - Wal-Mart

Don't be afraid to run the engine the way it was built to run!


It is a performance sedan & is MEANT to bring joy to driving!

JOIN a BMW club! www.bmwccbc.org

Keep it PROPERLY maintained & it will provide years of enjoyable driving!

 

[mick_eight]

Well SDW. Thats a good story. Too bad its a pile of BS. The top rings on pistons are made with a camfer so the exact thing you discribe won't happen. Tho everything else you said makes good sense. It is always good to change oil when first getting a car, you then have guideposts for service. Syn oil is just oil with additives. For older engines 150,000 k I use a 20-50 w oil and add duralube or slick 50 they both have polymers to coat bearings so that at starting where most of the wear on engines happen, metal to metal wear is reduced. The most likely cause of engine failure after excessive miles at low RPMS. would be a loosening of carbon deposits when high RPMS and engine temp reach levels never seen before. All the carbon breaking loose could cause rapid hot spots and piston dome clearence reduction

 

[sdw]

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/breakin.php

http://www.elise-r.co.uk/2008/06/08/simon-erland-reasons-for-mark-bowles-engine-failure/

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/2239/heavy_duty_technology_piston_failure_analysis.aspx

We are not talking a Ford or GM that is designed without respect for the amount of fuel used. We are talking a BMW that is designed so that it gets the best possible fuel usage. Camffered rings will always have some blow by which is why a Ford or GM gets so much less fuel efficiency than a BMW or Mercedes.

Manufacturers use camffered rings so that they can minimalize the amount of hand assembly required.

Well SDW. Thats a good story. Too bad its a pile of BS. The top rings on pistons are made with a camfer so the exact thing you discribe won't happen. Tho everything else you said makes good sense. It is always good to change oil when first getting a car, you then have guideposts for service. Syn oil is just oil with additives. For older engines 150,000 k I use a 20-50 w oil and add duralube or slick 50 they both have polymers to coat bearings so that at starting where most of the wear on engines happen, metal to metal wear is reduced. The most likely cause of engine failure after excessive miles at low RPMS. would be a loosening of carbon deposits when high RPMS and engine temp reach levels never seen before. All the carbon breaking loose could cause rapid hot spots and piston dome clearence reduction

 

[mick_eight]

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/breakin.php

http://www.elise-r.co.uk/2008/06/08/simon-erland-reasons-for-mark-bowles-engine-failure/

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/2239/heavy_duty_technology_piston_failure_analysis.aspx

We are not talking a Ford or GM that is designed without respect for the amount of fuel used. We are talking a BMW that is designed so that it gets the best possible fuel usage. Camffered rings will always have some blow by which is why a Ford or GM gets so much less fuel efficiency than a BMW or Mercedes.

Manufacturers use camffered rings so that they can minimalize the amount of hand assembly required.

All that is about new engines, not ones with 100000k . As it states in these articles ., the only wear point in a fresh engine is ring to cyl wear. Blowby has always been around. Till 70's it was vented to atmosphere. Now it's reburned. Big generalization that that GM and Ford have worse gas mileage then BMW or mercedes due to engine design. Methinks you are eatting up the market spin. No matter , you buy what you want and think what you want. Until you have got your hands dirty hand honing a blueprinted 389 pushing 600 HP we'll let those german engineers tell you what a great car those turkish workers are building for the gulliable NA market. It's all about how they are treated once bought. The worst engine to have is one that has been driven by little old ladies, never once run right. a good engine loves running high RPM's and when you build it yourself you can hear it scream and know its done right , not by a machine like GM and Ford and yes. by BMW and mecedes too.

 

[sdw]

My baby is a 426 Hemi Superbee. Yep, I've rebuilt the engine. Yep, all the numbers still match.

Even my daily driver lasts over 10 years before replacement.

Imports are still better built than Detroit Iron for daily driving or even burning up a 2 lane highway. The Superbee never was any good at turning corners, but she still launches and doesn't sit around burning the rubber off the tires.

All that is about new engines, not ones with 100000k . As it states in these articles ., the only wear point in a fresh engine is ring to cyl wear. Blowby has always been around. Till 70's it was vented to atmosphere. Now it's reburned. Big generalization that that GM and Ford have worse gas mileage then BMW or mercedes due to engine design. Methinks you are eatting up the market spin. No matter , you buy what you want and think what you want. Until you have got your hands dirty hand honing a blueprinted 389 pushing 600 HP we'll let those german engineers tell you what a great car those turkish workers are building for the gulliable NA market. It's all about how they are treated once bought. The worst engine to have is one that has been driven by little old ladies, never once run right. a good engine loves running high RPM's and when you build it yourself you can hear it scream and know its done right , not by a machine like GM and Ford and yes. by BMW and mecedes too.

 

[Krustee]

One little cravat on taking a car out onto the highway when you first acquire it.

IF, the car has been driven by a "little old lady" who never brought the rpms into the orange on the tach, driving the car at high revs will damage the engine.

Whoa there cowboy where did I say he should floor it & start floating the valves?

A car no matter what it's pedigree should NEVER be run at redline for any considerable period of time.

more than ten seconds to me would be down right abusive & foolish.

Your first highway drive should be planned so that you cruise for a half hour just below the orange, then another half hour 500 rpm higher, then another half hour 500 rpm higher, etc.

Once you have had the car operating in the red for half an hour, take it in for an oil change. This will get rid of any metal shavings that resulted from increasing the piston's swept area.

Are you NUTS???

What do you mean by "orange"?
A normal street car should never be run in the red!
You can rev it up there under load as in shifting in the red but never run it in the red!

You won't be taking it in for an oil change, you'll be rebuilding it!

I'm sure nobody driving a car previously owned by Mr O/Krustee or even me has to worry about this, but I've seen a number of good cars destroyed because the new owner drove like me right after getting the car from the widowed Sunday driver.

Mr. who???
Krustee is my handle thank you.

It is always good to change oil when first getting a car, you then have guideposts for service. Syn oil is just oil with additives.

Oil with additives eh?

From Wikipedia:

Synthetic oil is oil consisting of chemical compounds which were not originally present in crude oil (petroleum), but were artificially made (synthesized) from other compounds. Synthetic oil could be made to be a substitute for petroleum, or specially made to be a substitute for a lubricant oil, such as conventional (or mineral) motor oil refined from petroleum.

Advantages
The technical advantages of synthetic motor oils include:

• Measurably better low and high temperature viscosity performance[citation needed]
• Better chemical & shear stability
• Decreased evaporative loss[citation needed]
• Resistance to oxidation, thermal breakdown and oil sludge problems
• Extended drain intervals with the environmental benefit of less oil waste.[citation needed]
• Improved fuel economy in certain engine configurations.[citation needed]
• Better lubrication on cold starts

For older engines 150,000 k I use a 20-50 w oil and add duralube or slick 50 they both have polymers to coat bearings so that at starting where most of the wear on engines happen, metal to metal wear is reduced.

Here's some info on your favourite additives:

Slick 50
Many people ask about using engine additives such as Slick 50 in their Miata. Even the United States Federal Trade Commission has filed complaints against the makers of Slick 50 for false advertising claims! The makers recently agreed to a settlement of the complaint in which they agree to stop the deceptive advertising. In addition, here is another article of interest on the subject, along with some history.

Bottom line: We don't recommend it.

The following email question was sent to Slick 50 Vice President, Doug Ross. His reply follows.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've read your rebuttal to the various bits of information which have circulated for some time. (I've also read the same "Snake Oil" type of article in print as well as on the Web.) What I have not seen is anyone other than your company tout the benefits of your product as compared to plain old motor oil (which has gotten me 180,000 miles on my last car and 140,000 on the current one, both without any sort of engine wear which would result in burning excess oil.)

Why don't the automakers demand that their customers use Slick50 as a condition of the powertrain warranty? Wouldn't it save them a fortune in warranty repairs?

Gary J. Fischman

READ THE RESPONSE HERE:
http://www.miata.net/garage/slick50.html

The most likely cause of engine failure after excessive miles at low RPMS. would be a loosening of carbon deposits when high RPMS and engine temp reach levels never seen before. All the carbon breaking loose could cause rapid hot spots and piston dome clearence reduction

While that is marginally true the most wearing event on an engine is by far cold starts.

Engines need to be run once a week but the starting of an engine causes wear until the oil pressure starts sending oil through all the journals.

Any first year appentice mechanic knows this.

All that is about new engines, not ones with 100000k . As it states in these articles ., the only wear point in a fresh engine is ring to cyl wear.

Not true, there is bearing, bushing & cam lobe wear as well.

Big generalization that that GM and Ford have worse gas mileage then BMW or mercedes due to engine design. Methinks you are eatting up the market spin. No matter , you buy what you want and think what you want. Until you have got your hands dirty hand honing a blueprinted 389 pushing 600 HP we'll let those german engineers tell you what a great car those turkish workers are building for the gulliable NA market. It's all about how they are treated once bought.

Seriously?

Have you ever worked on a BMW or Mercedes engine?
Let me tell you they put ANY American motor to shame in precision design, tolerances, casting & power per litre performance.

I have a 32 valve DOHC V8 in my Mercedes that will soundly trounce any Mustang that dares get near me.

Should I choose to do the Brabus package I can pump out over 600 horses.

The AMG has 518hp & 465 ft·lbf torque

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1220819/mercedes_s550_amg_limosofnewyork_com/

Another thing, I can set a glass of champagne on the engine while I rev it to 5000rpm & barely see a ripple!
Try doing that with anything from Detroit.


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a good engine loves running high RPM's and when you build it yourself you can hear it scream and know its done right , not by a machine like GM and Ford and yes. by BMW and mecedes too.

I guess I'm not quite following you here.
Engines are purpose built some for torque some for power.
F1 engines produce lots of power but at high rpm, they are designed for this purpose.

A tractor motor on the other hand has huge torque & usually is diesel with long stroke engines.

Before you run any motor high rpm you should make sure it is broken in & then only short periods unless you are in a race car built for such purpose.

Imports are still better built than Detroit Iron for daily driving or even burning up a 2 lane highway.

AMEN!

 

[mick_eight]

CRUST. Are your eyes brown? You are so wrong in so many ways. The only engines in production models that are hand fitted are very few. All F1 engines are of course. And yes I have worked on BMW and Mercedes engines and also Rolls Royce double plug engines. I've also worked on IR jet engines and 4000 HP diesels. You can talk about german engineering all you want, but I can tell you that 80 % of pro mechanics I've know in 40 years of mechanical work. Some were NASCAR mechanics some were F1. They are mostly driving GM and Fords It is the best bang for the buck. Repairs are cheaper, parts are cheaper. The exotics are toys and if you can afford a new car every 3 years , it doesn't matter. For most of middle class ,they want a car that lasts and is cheap to fix and parts easy to get. I won't get into arguing about syn oil or aftermarket products as they all have nay and yah sides. I'll just say from what I've seen after 40 years in mechanics on motorcycles to 30 million dollar drag lines, It all breaks and good luck finding good mechanics to fix it

 

[Krustee]

CRUST. Are your eyes brown?

NO - green actually!

You are so wrong in so many ways. The only engines in production models that are hand fitted are very few. All F1 engines are of course. And yes I have worked on BMW and Mercedes engines and also Rolls Royce double plug engines. I've also worked on IR jet engines and 4000 HP diesels. You can talk about german engineering all you want, but I can tell you that 80 % of pro mechanics I've know in 40 years of mechanical work.

You've worked on the German & Rolls engines & have NOT noticed any difference in the tolerances, casting, assembly & engineering of these engines? (not to mention the cars themselves)
I SERIOUSLY doubt that!!

I suggest you look at the latest S-class Mercs.

I talk about German engineering because it is noticeably better than Detroit engineering.

If 80% of pro mechanics ride a Big Wheel are you going to say how great it is too?

Some were NASCAR mechanics some were F1. They are mostly driving GM and Fords It is the best bang for the buck. Repairs are cheaper, parts are cheaper. The exotics are toys and if you can afford a new car every 3 years , it doesn't matter. For most of middle class ,they want a car that lasts and is cheap to fix and parts easy to get.

So because YOU can't afford it, it makes them inferior?

I know literally a hundred or more who drive these cars, guess you hang out in the wrong circles.

I also know MANY owners of Mercedes who have over 300k miles on their 15-28 year old cars, many of them without having the engine rebuilt yet.

I won't get into arguing about syn oil or aftermarket products as they all have nay and yah sides. I'll just say from what I've seen after 40 years in mechanics on motorcycles to 30 million dollar drag lines, It all breaks and good luck finding good mechanics to fix it

In all my years racing & owning more than 14 cars personally, I have had better performance & fuel economy using synthetic.

When I hopped up two engines for customers which had started using synthetic, AFTER a PROPER break-in, we found very little wear compared to the numerous other engines that had ran on conventional oil.
That was proof enough for me to become religious about Synthetic.

 

[HeMadeMeDoIt]

Mechanics drive Detroit crap because its what they can afford. Some of hem are becoming more refined and are buying Jap crap.

I agree with Krustee, there is just no comparison with the quaity of a German vehicle. A good friend of mine just picked up an '08 S550....WOW! They've readlly outdone themeselves with this one.

I've owned several bmers and mercs and I'm currently looking for a few years old S55 with th 500bhp engine. This thing with 4 doors, 5 passengers and their luggage can smoke a mustang. Does that tell you something?

 

[mick_eight]

A good mechanic makes $120,000 yr . I know some that make $300,000. They can buy what they want. Most drive New $60,000 SUV and custom built rods and vintage cars. So its not about money. Its all about the bang for the buck. Don't babble about HP or best car on track. Money will buy anything ,its about aftermarket parts ease. Try buying BMW and Mercedes parts anywhere but a big city and don't even talk about parts cost. the freight for it is more then the domestic part cost. And good luck finding a mechanic to fix it in rural canada.. Ive seen good engineering. Its about cost for that engineering.sure its castings are better, sure it looks nice. Yes it handles good . I'd rather drive my detroit iron and spend money on other pursuits then support german GNP with a status symbol that makes them think their dick is bigger for $ 30,000 more then they can get a good reliable one made by our own country.

 

[d_Duck55]

I also know MANY owners of Mercedes who have over 300k miles on their 15-28 year old cars, many of them without having the engine rebuilt yet.

My old Benz mechanic named "Heinz" said when he was young, his mom told him "we are not rich, so we must buy a Mercedes because it will last a very long time".