Bertuzzi Record

[Cock Throppled]

Okay, guys tell me just why you think Bertuzzi is a "Superstar". Okay - he's really big and he's scored some good goals, but it seems his career is a major disappointment filled with boenehead actions. Potential with no delivery. The NHL is littered with those guys, but they don't all get $6 million a year to pot 17 goals (season total before the lockout) - and that's playing with the league's best player and on every power play.
He's been in the league ten years and has 198 goals - a fantastic average of less than 20 a year. Hell, the Sedins get that many. He had one great year (46) and one pretty good year (35) and the playoffs are disaster zones -24 games - SIX goals. What is - wishful thinking?

 

[Kev]

Okay, guys tell me just why you think Bertuzzi is a "Superstar". Okay - he's really big and he's scored some good goals, but it seems his career is a major disappointment filled with boenehead actions. Potential with no delivery. The NHL is littered with those guys, but they don't all get $6 million a year to pot 17 goals (season total before the lockout) - and that's playing with the league's best player and on every power play.
He's been in the league ten years and has 198 goals - a fantastic average of less than 20 a year. Hell, the Sedins get that many. He had one great year (46) and one pretty good year (35) and the playoffs are disaster zones -24 games - SIX goals. What is - wishful thinking?

Scoring goals is only part of the story.

Show me a stat that shows while Bertuzzi is on the ice his teammates weren't scoring either. If Bertuzzi can skate and make room for Naslund & Morrison to score thats huge. If you have ever played hockey standing in front of the net isn't the smartest place to be. I don't feel theres a player in the NHL that can creat a scoring chance for a teammate than Bertuzzi. Whether hes in front of the net or crashing and banging. I hope since is ordeal that Bertuzzi has learned a thing or two about himself, and come this season we'll see what the big kid can really do.

 

[James]

Okay, I'm a Bert fan.

I assume that those stats are real, because I can't be bothered to chase them down. So, in line with Kev's thinking, what's his plus/minus? Plus, after some of the clean and fair checks that he's put guys down with, folks need to pay more attention to him, perhaps giving his linemates an advantage. Having him on the ice, or available, has to make the other guys think.

That's NOT to say that the Moore thing was right, because it wasn't. Although I'm in the group that thinks Moore got off pretty lightly in the first case, if not in the second.

So. how's Brad "The Bounty Hunter" May gonna fit in with the 'Lanche. Now Moore isn't there anymore (nice loyalty 'lanche), but the lawsuit looks more intriguing, as May is a defendant. It probably goes nowhere, more of filing "because there is a deadline", but it's interesting.

All that said, the division looks to be tougher than it was......

 

[Cock Throppled]

Okay, I'm a Bert fan.

I assume that those stats are real, because I can't be bothered to chase them down. So, in line with Kev's thinking, what's his plus/minus?
....

Well, in ten years he has compiled a minus 16. Even in his 46-goal year he was only plus 2. In playoff he's minus 3. ( He somehow managed plus 21 in his last 17-goal year). I think the more interesting stat is his game-winning or game-tying goals - virtually none. He has about one or two per year - not exactly a money player while he racks up those Dave Semenko-like numbers. Face facts - he is physically dominating and can skate better than most big men, but he simply doesn't deliver. His best ability seems to be the "potential" for mayhem whenever he's on the ice. That feeling that "something" good (goals/ big hits) or bad (coming off the bench to fight/ nailing Moore) will occur, so he is exciting in that way. He also can take up lots of space in front of the net. I wonder if Louis Anderson can skate?

 

[LonelyGhost]

okay, I'm coming out of lurk-mode for 10 minutes for this one:

the canucks are fucked.

Calgary has always played them tough ... now tougher and they play 8 times ...
same with Edmonton ...

the Avs have always given Van a rough ride, still will ...

the Kings and Sharks can win at times, and now Anaheim looks better than ever, even if not contending.

the Nucks have one (ONE!) line and a useless goalie ...

My prediction? 8th place if they are lucky and out in the first round again because Clouts just can't perform and the opposing teams just shut down the first line and the Sedins just aren't good enough for the second line ... who else is there? (even Chubarov is gone!)

thank god for the 6-0 Lions!

going back under my rock now ...

 

[KYG]

All teams have one big line. I don't see Calgary or Edmonton's second or third line that great of a threat. Vancouver's D-Men, Jovo, Ohlund and Salo and better than Calgary's or Edmonton's top 3 D.

 

[ace85]

Jovo vs Pronger

Hmmm Who would you want. JOVO is the most overated #1 in hockey.

Edmonton has Smith and Staios, plus young huge Semenov.

Clagary has the best of all of them especially now with Phanuef, Rhegher, and Leopold.

I agree Vancouver is in tough, and the BERT is a tad overated.

"I realize I sucker punched him and then drove his head into the ice, but I really didn't mean to hurt him". Actually what Bert meant to say is, "I really don't think of the concequences to my actions, I am not very smart".

 

[Cock Throppled]

Definitely not the sharpest fork in the drawer. Maybe he's over-compensating with his hostility for a lack of beef elsewhere. Wifey never smiles much even when not in court with neanderthal hubby.

 

[Osiris]

I have to agree that attacking Moore wasn't very smart. It should have been Joe Sakic hitting the ice head first to even things up for the sucker hit by a marginal bottom feeder on Naslund. Bad coaching, too. The Canucks should have brought someone up from the minors to do the deed, then have him fade into obscurity along with Moore.

On the other hand, in the same category as Bert, how do his numbers compare with Iginla, Tkachuk, Daze, Guerin, Shanahan, & Doan? Pretty good, I'd say. His +/- from last year was seen as a big plus by the coaching staff, as the team's focus last year was to cut down goals against. It was an intentional change in focus that was paying off for the team.

One thing is for sure. The Canucks are lagging behind just about every other team in their division and conference when it comes to improving their lot for this year. We've signed fewer players than any team in the conference, and that tells you deals that were hoped for never came to be. I'm getting sick of hearing "We like our team...the others have to improve to catch us." Ain't the case now, and never was since we were never the top seed in the West. The one move that would make a difference, a top notch goalie, seems like it might be the one area the Canucks are still working on since Cloutier is not signed, even though he is telling the press and anyone else who will listen that his qualifying offer is fine.

 

[The Lizard King]

I have to agree that attacking Moore wasn't very smart. It should have been Joe Sakic hitting the ice head first to even things up for the sucker hit by a marginal bottom feeder on Naslund.

As a Sakic fan, I don't quite agree with that but more so the general point. Like I've said many times, two things they didn't teach Moore at Harvard. First, the law of the jungle. Second, how to take a punch.

A marginal, first year and part time player as a 25 year old should never have been allowed to take a run with as malicious intent at a marquee player. The NHL is more at fault in the Bertuzzi case than Bertuzzi is. Moore was a slightly above average college player and marginal AHL player who finally stuck with the Avs after three years of trying. With a front loaded team talent wise, all on the top 3 lines, and minimal young talent coming up, he was basically given a spot as a result of not being a defensive liability. North American born forwards who don't make it by 23 are pretty much written off by the hockey establishment. Moore was just plain lucky to be on a team which is finally paying for all the years of trading young talent for the immediate chance to win a Stanley Cup.

And yes, marquee players should be protected. Anybody who would pay for a ticket to watch a team full of Moores over a team full of Naslunds should stick to watching hockey broadcasts with glowing pucks or better yet, NASCAR and wrestling.

One thing is for sure. The Canucks are lagging behind just about every other team in their division and conference when it comes to improving their lot for this year.

No doubt. They're still too small and not tough enough, with little in the way of prospects for consistent production beyond the first line. Cloutier? I don't know. He's a good, loyal kid and loves the city. Who else is out there? Joseph? I sure the fuck hope not. They're a tough two way winger, Lapointe would have been nice, and a tough, consistent defender away from seriously competing for the Cup. Look at the bright side, at least they dumped Sopel on that buffoon Milbury!!!!

 

[Osiris]

And yes, marquee players should be protected.

Look at the bright side, at least they dumped Sopel on that buffoon Milbury!!!!

I was being sarcastic, but only by half. I have no axe to grind with Sakic, who I have a lot of respect for. As I recall, he spent a long time on the sidelines after receiving a broken jaw courtesy of Detroit (I forget who) last season. My point was the same as yours. There's something wrong with a league that at the midpoint of the 2003-04 season had between 20% & 25% of all team's starters sidelined with injuries, many of them the stars we pay to see.

And yes, thank goodness for Mike Milbury. How does he keep his job, anyway?

 

[The Lizard King]

we can have all the super star power and it is useless unless we get a real goalie. end of story , plain and simple!!!!

Sure but who's REALISTICALLY available and available at the right price? Right away count out Brodeur, Luongo, Khabibulan, Theodore, Kolzig, Turco, Raycroft, DiPietro, Esche, and Kiprusoff. So what's left?
Biron? Not available, yet.
Boucher? May be available as a back-up.
Dunham? See Boucher.
Aebischer? Unproven and couldn't win with a great team.
Roloson? Not available and a straight swap.
Fernandez? See Roloson.
Lalime? Not available and same playoff history.
Haesk? Not available but may be too old, recently inactive, and expensive.
Belfour? See Hasek and add more $$$.
Joseph? Has never won anything, a chronic loser, and too old.
Burke? Not available. See Joseph.
Giguere? One playoff run does not make a star and too expensive.
Nabokov? Not available and hasn't won anything yet.
Vokoun? See Nabokov.
Thibault? No longer available and at best the same as Cloutier.
Denis? Career back-up.
Legace? See Denis
Weekes? No longer available, been-there-done-that, loser.
Potvin? See Weekes but available.
Snow? See Weekes and Potvin.
Chechmanek? Available but whacked out and iconsistent. A step back.

So you have virtually no choice but to stick with Cloutier and pray that Auld plays better here than in Winnipeg last year, and pray again that either or both of Plante and Vincent turn out.