Beginning of the end or........
- Thread starter uncleg
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Unfortunately, I believe that the divide will get wider. The U.S. is broken in so many ways it will never be fixed. Each state has such different viewpoints they may as well be 50 different countries. I have a lot of respect for the U.S. but it is in a sad state of affairs............will a 21 year old with issues push the Stars and Bars into even more wide spread use. Will there finally be a serious discussion of race in America, or will the divide get even wider ?
I don't know about 'best mask in history'…A vote against the Johnny Reb flag is a vote against the best goalie mask in history.. Duncan Wilson with the Rangers.
I'll put Gilles Gratton's werewolf mask a few spots up.
this reminds me of Curt Ridley's two sticks crossing mask.
that's very believable Hatrick. I'm sure you have stories of befriending strangers while riding through there.
not sure how certain areas of US get a bad rep.
ie New York: I was living in Queens at the time, but it was always an
adventure when I ventured out to The Bronx. walkable neighbourhoods and genuine soul food joints to look forward to.
while there, I gathered the courage for a buzz at a local barber shop and even attended mass at a local church…
complete with gospel songs playing beautifully throughout the service. amazing experience of my life. i miss those times.
Beautiful flag but represent a time of oppression for most specially after being used by the KKK for so long. Even if for a lot of us it represented the fun of watching the Dukes of Hazard before we learned its different meaning in history I think it's on its way out for good reasons.
A bit like the swastika that can not be used anymore as a " good fortune " and " well being " sign revered for millenniums because some murderous wackos started using it to promote their party in Germany.
A bit like the swastika that can not be used anymore as a " good fortune " and " well being " sign revered for millenniums because some murderous wackos started using it to promote their party in Germany.
So now apparently I was a racist all this time for liking the Dukes of hazzard
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/general-lee-from-dukes-of-hazzard-losing-its-122294326432.html
Me thinks people are going a bit too far.
The flag itself isn't actually the Confederate flag. The Stars and Bars was. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
The 'dixie' flag was the battle flag of the Confederate Army. What were they fighting for? The right to own slaves and the "superiority of the white race". It's a symbol of racism no matter how you slice it. I agree that it should not be on any gov't facility or public building (schools) because these are built for the service of the people. But if you want to like a TV show or wear it on a belt buckle cuz you're a redneck, your First Amendment rights should allow you to do so. Reaction to the Charleston shootings is like white America wants to erase all evidence of this just like how the Chinese erased Tiananmen Square from it's history.
Fly the flag if you want to. That just makes it easier for people to spot the racists
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/general-lee-from-dukes-of-hazzard-losing-its-122294326432.html
Me thinks people are going a bit too far.
The flag itself isn't actually the Confederate flag. The Stars and Bars was. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
The 'dixie' flag was the battle flag of the Confederate Army. What were they fighting for? The right to own slaves and the "superiority of the white race". It's a symbol of racism no matter how you slice it. I agree that it should not be on any gov't facility or public building (schools) because these are built for the service of the people. But if you want to like a TV show or wear it on a belt buckle cuz you're a redneck, your First Amendment rights should allow you to do so. Reaction to the Charleston shootings is like white America wants to erase all evidence of this just like how the Chinese erased Tiananmen Square from it's history.
Fly the flag if you want to. That just makes it easier for people to spot the racists
How the hell can someone be proud of that 'heritage'?
To those who say it stands for freedom, how can supporting slavery be supporting freedom? White sharecroppers weren't much better than slaves either.
The South was a terrible place for anyone who wasn't wealthy. Most whites were dirt poor as well. They got led to the slaughter by rich landowners who ran the southern states. People need to get rid of their stupid fantasies about the past and see it for what it was.
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think you have to remember that countries this large require a level of regional tolerance to get along
most day to day issues for Americans are more regionally focused so they tend to have their different attitudes towards their right to govern regionally, no doubt it will provoke national sensitivities from time to time
when a national issue comes up, don't kid yourselves, the Americans are more patriotic than any other nation I have had experience with
you didn't have north south rivalries with the military personal in desert storm...... they were Americans first, northern or southerns second
I agree with Hatrick in terms of southern hospitality, in general on a personal level outside the dense cities like New York the American people are the friendliest most hospitable people you will meet when you meet them in their areas.
Two threads running in their minds at any given time. One is their regional or personal issues, second is a national patriotic side. Both are quite powerful issues or emotions with them. On one hand you can hear an American friend rant and rave about how incompetent the federal government is and how much they hate Washington, the next minute they are about to engage in a fist fight with you for insulting their flag.
Have to separate their national pride from their regional differences. In other words, I don't think they are in threat of any national instability or rifts.
On the other hand, I do think their government structurally is in need of some change. They have an astronomical national debt but no real way of fixing it. Congress are elected to represent their individual states, not come together and fix a major monetary flaw in their system. We are still in an era where we have some major systemic structural problems with economics and trying to get by with band aid fixes.
I think only a few days ago, the Alabama governor ordered the removal of the confederate flag from flying on state capital buildings. Mississippi still have the flag as part of their state flag and I think South Carolina still fly the flag.
This dates back to Abraham Lincoln wanting to bring the southern states back into the union gently without ramming federalism down their throats after the civil war. He wanted to unify with a large amount of respect and tolerance to heal national wounds. He was assassinated for it though.
No doubt there are still more radical or stronger emotional ties to the old rivalries which cause internal acts of violence. Would not take that as a major national division though.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-confederate-flag-explain-20150624-htmlstory.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nor-confederate-flag-robert-bentley/29210283/
most day to day issues for Americans are more regionally focused so they tend to have their different attitudes towards their right to govern regionally, no doubt it will provoke national sensitivities from time to time
when a national issue comes up, don't kid yourselves, the Americans are more patriotic than any other nation I have had experience with
you didn't have north south rivalries with the military personal in desert storm...... they were Americans first, northern or southerns second
I agree with Hatrick in terms of southern hospitality, in general on a personal level outside the dense cities like New York the American people are the friendliest most hospitable people you will meet when you meet them in their areas.
Two threads running in their minds at any given time. One is their regional or personal issues, second is a national patriotic side. Both are quite powerful issues or emotions with them. On one hand you can hear an American friend rant and rave about how incompetent the federal government is and how much they hate Washington, the next minute they are about to engage in a fist fight with you for insulting their flag.
Have to separate their national pride from their regional differences. In other words, I don't think they are in threat of any national instability or rifts.
On the other hand, I do think their government structurally is in need of some change. They have an astronomical national debt but no real way of fixing it. Congress are elected to represent their individual states, not come together and fix a major monetary flaw in their system. We are still in an era where we have some major systemic structural problems with economics and trying to get by with band aid fixes.
I think only a few days ago, the Alabama governor ordered the removal of the confederate flag from flying on state capital buildings. Mississippi still have the flag as part of their state flag and I think South Carolina still fly the flag.
This dates back to Abraham Lincoln wanting to bring the southern states back into the union gently without ramming federalism down their throats after the civil war. He wanted to unify with a large amount of respect and tolerance to heal national wounds. He was assassinated for it though.
No doubt there are still more radical or stronger emotional ties to the old rivalries which cause internal acts of violence. Would not take that as a major national division though.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-confederate-flag-explain-20150624-htmlstory.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nor-confederate-flag-robert-bentley/29210283/
That is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, not the stars and bars............will a 21 year old with issues push the Stars and Bars into even more wide spread use. Will there finally be a serious discussion of race in America, or will the divide get even wider ?
The stars and bars (confederate flag) looked like this:
Some history: When the confederate states seceded, they needed a new flag. The were fond of the old one, so they wanted one that looked similiar, and they one they selected was the stars and bars above. When the confederate army fought the federals at the first battle of Bull Run, there was a lot of confusion in the fighting because most soldiers were dressed in blue and the flags looked similar. In those days, prior to the invention of radios, general officers kept track of what was going on in the battlefield using the battle flags to figure out where their troops were relative to the enemy. So having a flag that look like theirs was an obvious problem. To solve that issue the army of Northern Virginia adopted the crossed flag as a battle flag, and kept it for the rest of the war. After the war had been going on for a few years, people in the south didn't like the idea that their flag looked like the federal flag, so they adopted a succession of new flags (two of them). Since the Army of Northern Virginia had won so much glory on the battlefield their standard was obviously very popular, so it was incorporated into the later flags. Initially this was in the corner of a white flag, until they realized that it was too similar to a flag of surrender. Then they incorporated a red bar on the left, although that particular flag was rarely used.
So, the flag that is causing all the fuss has nothing to do with slavery, but instead is the banner that the soldiers of General Lee's army fought and died under. It is part of southern culture and lore, their way of honoring their dead from the war. That is why it is so revered down their, not because of lingering racism.
There are racists who use the flag, but they are misappropriating it.
...........will a 21 year old with issues push the Stars and Bars into even more wide spread use. Will there finally be a serious discussion of race in America, or will the divide get even wider ?
knowing now that it's the confederate battle flag puts a different slant on the argument... just sayin'
That is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, not the stars and bars.
The stars and bars (confederate flag) looked like this:
You knew this before you looked it up on Wikipedia...........or ? I spent some time in the South, Georgia to be exact and nobody I met ever meant the Confederate National flag, as shown when they referred to the "Stars and Bars" They always meant the Confederate Battle flag............honestly,I doubt a lot of them knew the difference.
....how so ? Just askin........
How is it different?
It should be even more offensive. The soldiers were the ones fighting to support slavery.
while the southerns were without question for the most part racist, the civil war was more about economics
slavery was the only way many of the southern states could compete economically with things like the cotton trade and mainly an agricultural industrial economy
the north were growing more of a merchant class and manufacturing industrial base and were economic without slaves
many of the southerners and border states were fighting for their economic survival so they decided on secession from the union (separate)
the constitution did not allow for secession so Lincoln went to war with the confederates to uphold the constitution, the south were fighting for the right for secession
they wanted to govern their own destiny and the fear of abolishment of slavery just one issue, the north did not bring the abolishment of slavery issue into the war until well into the war, lincoln did not want the border states going with the south, he needed them to win and many of them had economies dependent on slavery
during the war the abolishment of slavery became an issue, the north wanted the slaves to make their way to the north to disrupt southern industry so the latter part of the war slavery became a major issue
freedom for slaves and the emancipation was how lincoln sold it to the northern states to get them on board with it, the main driver was a military strategy however it became a principal which the north rallied behind i.e. fighting on the morally right side
any other military history buff feel free to chime in,
in terms of extremist racist groups, we have our share of them up here
some of the synagogues in the lower mainland have to have security in their parking lots to protect the cars (unorthodox of course) from vandalism hate crimes
slavery was the only way many of the southern states could compete economically with things like the cotton trade and mainly an agricultural industrial economy
the north were growing more of a merchant class and manufacturing industrial base and were economic without slaves
many of the southerners and border states were fighting for their economic survival so they decided on secession from the union (separate)
the constitution did not allow for secession so Lincoln went to war with the confederates to uphold the constitution, the south were fighting for the right for secession
they wanted to govern their own destiny and the fear of abolishment of slavery just one issue, the north did not bring the abolishment of slavery issue into the war until well into the war, lincoln did not want the border states going with the south, he needed them to win and many of them had economies dependent on slavery
during the war the abolishment of slavery became an issue, the north wanted the slaves to make their way to the north to disrupt southern industry so the latter part of the war slavery became a major issue
freedom for slaves and the emancipation was how lincoln sold it to the northern states to get them on board with it, the main driver was a military strategy however it became a principal which the north rallied behind i.e. fighting on the morally right side
any other military history buff feel free to chime in,
in terms of extremist racist groups, we have our share of them up here
some of the synagogues in the lower mainland have to have security in their parking lots to protect the cars (unorthodox of course) from vandalism hate crimes
No. I knew it before. I have an interest in history.That is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, not the stars and bars.
The stars and bars (confederate flag) looked like this:
You knew this before you looked it up on Wikipedia...........or ? I spent some time in the South, Georgia to be exact and nobody I met ever meant the Confederate National flag, as shown when they referred to the "Stars and Bars" They always meant the Confederate Battle flag............honestly,I doubt a lot of them knew the difference.
....how so ? Just askin........
They were fighting for their country, not slavery. The primary causes of the war were economics and the distribution of power, which were indirectly related to slavery because the way the US was set up after independence. Slavery itself wasn't the cause. It was made the "reason" a few years in by Lincoln in order to ensure that European countries would support them rather than the south.
