BC Ferries And The On Going Dilemma

[Kev]

Whats happening with our BC ferry services? Between 1985 and 2006, there were 8 ferry accidents in BC waters that resulted in injuries or death? Statistically is this an exceptable number taking inconsideration how many ferry boats are on the water each day? With the Fast Cat ferry fiasco and and the number of accidents i'm wondering if our ferry service needs a serious wakeup. Any thoughts?

March 22, 2006
All 99 passengers and crew are rescued after their ferry sank off the northern coast of British Columbia. The Queen of the North hits a rock and begins tipping to one side before it sinks.
June 30, 2005
The Queen of Oak Bay loses power as it enters the Horseshoe Bay terminal at West Vancouver and slams into a nearby marina, crushing 22 boats. There are no injuries.
Sept. 14, 2000
The Spirit of Vancouver Island hits a 10-metre powerboat outside the Swartz Bay ferry terminal near Victoria. Two people on the power boat are killed.
Feb. 6, 2000
The Royal Vancouver, a high-speed catamaran passenger ferry, collides with BC Ferries' Queen of Saanich in early-morning fog in Active Pass. Some 23 Royal Vancouver passengers are injured. An inquiry blames the catamaran for not tracking the Queen of Saanich on radar.
Nov. 7, 1995
Mayne Queen crashes into a private marina on Bowen Island near Vancouver, damaging several moored boats. Investigators say mechanical or human error in transferring control between two consoles as the ferry leaves the dock may have caused the crash.
Aug. 13, 1992
Two people are killed at the Departure Bay terminal in Nanaimo when the Queen of New Westminster sets sail from the terminal just as a van drives across the ramp leading to the ship's upper deck and plunges 15 metres into the water.
March 12, 1992
A BC Ferries vessel en route to Nanaimo slams into the Japanese coal freighter Shinwa Maru shortly after leaving the Tsawwassen ferry terminal south of Vancouver. Seventeen ferry passengers are injured.
August 1985
The Queen of Cowichan runs over a pleasure boat near Horseshoe Bay terminal in West Vancouver, killing three people.

 

[tongue]

Any thoughts? Yes privatize for some competition.

 

[FuZzYknUckLeS]

Re-route some of the insanely excessive cash that Trans-Link is suckin' outa the coffers and buy them some decent navigational equipment. Keepin' the crew outa the booze wouldn't hurt either...

 

[dexi]

Well you can thank the NDP for that, instead of upgrading the fleet with proper vessels they sank all the dough into useless fast ferries. Now BC Ferries is stuck with an obsolete fleet.

Took Gordo about 3 sentences to get around to this "conclusion" this morning. It took a really astute ability to read between the lines to get his meaning when he talked about how the fleet was allowed to dilapidate during the 90s (naturally in his 4 years of office, he just hasn't gotten around to it yet) Of course, the opportunistic cunt was using what then seemed like an ultimately benign event to make a partisan jab at the opposition. Now that there are possibly casualties to this, how gracefully will he extract his foot from his big, slack-jawed mouth?

 

[wolverine]

Build a bridge or a tunnel already!

 

[dexi]

I don't get it, everyone agrees the useless NDP fucks created the problem, yet you are saying it is Campbell's fault because he has not been able to straighten out their mess? I guess if he spent the first 4 years trying to pull the Province back from the brink of bankruptcy.

I'm just saying that politicians are always sniping at each other when a party uses a tragedy for partisan gain, yet Campbell did exactly that yesterday. He thought he could get away with it because there were no fatalities, except now there may be.

And yes, the BC Liberals are to blame for the state of BC Ferries as well. They've had 4 years to devote resources to BC Ferries and they haven't. They haven't because then they wouldn't have something to point to and say "look at what they NDP did!" At what point does it become their responsibility? Next term? Yes, the NDP fucked up, but the Liberals' refusal to fix it must count against them at some point.

And yeah, the Liberals spent the last 4 years "trying to pull the Province back from the brink of bankruptcy." Sure. The bounce back of the economy is ALL the Liberal's doing.

 

[LonelyGhost]

I don't get it, everyone agrees the useless NDP fucks created the problem, yet you are saying it is Campbell's fault because he has not been able to straighten out their mess? I guess if he spent the first 4 years trying to pull the Province back from the brink of bankruptcy.

1. they could have kept the fastcats or gotten a better deal.

2. they didn't need to privatize bcferries, they needed to have the balls to make the smaller and more costly routes pay for themselves.

3. the province is just as close to bankruptcy now as it was before ... only gordo has added the billions for a rav line to nowhere, a million-dollar a metre highway for rich skiiers, and an olympics we will never pay off.

Anyone with a brain can look at how CANADA's economy works: it all happens in Ontario with manufacturing and slowly trickles out west until SUDDENLY the BC economy is just jumping -- but look back East again -- things are slowing down.

All BC has to keep it going is housing, housing and the BC Liberal mega-projects.

What's going to happen when no one can leave Ontario for BC because they can't sell their shit-box there and BC's are too expensive? There is not as much 'foreign' ownership as everyone hopes. and the olympics won't help offset it because of the phenominal cost.

 

[vancouverman]

... and then at the end of each day ... we would all gather on the beach to build romantic bon-fires

bonfires at the beach, are already illegal in West Van

I have a big bomb stored in with a pile of nuts at squirrels garage

an amazing place ..... this garage of yours is a trully amazing place

 

[Cock Throppled]

bonfires at the beach, are already illegal in West Van

Not if you're Iranian.

 

[Kev]

Thanks all for your comments.

It looking like more and more that the latest ferry accident has claimed 2 more lives.

The BC Ferry network is the second largest ferry network in the world. With so many boats and so many passengers i wonder if our goverment should be looking at other means at getting out passengers from A to B? Although with this latest incident it wouldn't have helped i do wonder how feasible it would be to build a bridge/tunnel to Vancouver Island? Would VI residents want it? In the long run even with its great cost would it be more cost effective to have a permanent structure in place instead our ferry system?

In Europe they are doing some amazing things with tunneling. Theres talk of building a bridge from Gibraltar to North Africa. Although the distance between the 2 continents is only 16 km wide, the water depth is 1000 meters which possess a huge challenge for those involved. They tunneled from England to France, they tunneled under the Alps. Everywhere we look engineers are trying to join countries, continents, cities or people together. Maybe its time we looked at the feasibilty at joining Vancouver Island with the Mainland?

We would still need a ferry system to service the many islands and communities that make up our coastline but with the majority of the commuter traffic going to VI, a bridge or tunnel would eliminate many of the problems we see today. IMHO

... but it will probably get stuck up their pompous lily white asses like everything else.

Then may i suggest an anal scrub to clear whatever is ailing those pompous lily white asses.

 

[necko]

need more

WE need to build more fast ferry's and tie them upo end until we have a floating bridge

 

[gravitas]

1. they could have kept the fastcats or gotten a better deal.

I don't know nearly enough about the economics behind the BC Ferry system but I do have a few insights as an infrequent consumer of their service.
-the fastcats were a fucking debacle from the start....for a relatively short haul trip they were terribly inefficient in their fuel consumption, couldn't reach full speed given other shipping traffic, didn't have the capacity for the major routes
-the fleet is OLD...even with the retrofits any piece of mechanical equipment has a finite life span and in the case of BC Ferries long overdue for new more efficient and safe vessels....as much as it pains me to say this the need to take a lesson from the domestic airline industry, buy a larger fleet of smaller, faster, cheeper ships to serve the short haul routes

2. they didn't need to privatize bcferries, they needed to have the balls to make the smaller and more costly routes pay for themselves.

IMO anything other than the courts, police and military can successfully privatized. That doesn't mean free reign for private industry to rape and pillage and there's still a need for regulatory bodies. However competition would force the providers to be more efficient and offer great value to its customers. If that means it costs $200 to go from Crofton to Vesuvius so be it.

rav line to nowhere

Again, don't know all the gory details of the project but it seems like a massive cluster fuck. If they wanted to do anything start by leveling all of Richmond (hell, its only going to be a matter of time before it sinks anyways).

it all happens in Ontario with manufacturing and slowly trickles out west

Ontario may think they're Canada's economic engine but they'd be wrong. Since 1990 Alberta's per capita NGDP has both been increasing and also the greatest in Canada. During that same time Ontario's has been falling. They are facing a financial meltdown with manufacturing jobs declining, massive provincial debt and an infrastructure that costs billions to maintain and improve.

What's going to happen when no one can leave Ontario for BC because they can't sell their shit-box there and BC's are too expensive?

I could give a rats ass.

Not if you're Iranian.

What the fuck makes them so special?

 

[Lurker 123]

Thanks all for your comments.


In Europe they are doing some amazing things with tunneling. Theres talk of building a bridge from Gibraltar to North Africa. Although the distance between the 2 continents is only 16 km wide, the water depth is 1000 meters which possess a huge challenge for those involved. They tunneled from England to France, they tunneled under the Alps. Everywhere we look engineers are trying to join countries, continents, cities or people together. Maybe its time we looked at the feasibilty at joining Vancouver Island with the Mainland?

We would still need a ferry system to service the many islands and communities that make up our coastline but with the majority of the commuter traffic going to VI, a bridge or tunnel would eliminate many of the problems we see today. IMHO

That would be a wonderful idea to join Van Island and mainland with either a bridge or tunnel. Then all the pooners from the mainland will have much easier access to the Van Island beauties!

Right now ,it takes me an average of 4hours to cross the channel and also being restricted by the hours and stormy weather. With either bridge or tunnel, there will be no more restriction!

 

[metoo113]

That would be a wonderful idea to join Van Island and mainland with either a bridge or tunnel. Then all the pooners from the mainland will have much easier access to the Van Island beauties!

Right now ,it takes me an average of 4hours to cross the channel and also being restricted by the hours and stormy weather. With either bridge or tunnel, there will be no more restriction!

As much as we'd love to become a suburb of Vancouver including all the crime that would come with it, a bridge or tunnel is not and will not be possible until technology is developed to be able to build one cheaply and safely. It can't be done. http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/Publications/reports_and_studies/fixed_link/fixed_link.htm

 

[Kev]

As much as we'd love to become a suburb of Vancouver including all the crime that would come with it, a bridge or tunnel is not and will not be possible until technology is developed to be able to build one cheaply and safely. It can't be done. http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/Publications/reports_and_studies/fixed_link/fixed_link.htm

Never say never.

 

[metoo113]

Never say never.

If you look at the link, it doesn't say that it will never be done, just that bridge and tunnel construction does not exist today to build it at a cost anyone would pay to travel to vancouver.

 

[LonelyGhost]

as much as it pains me to say this the need to take a lesson from the domestic airline industry, buy a larger fleet of smaller, faster, cheeper ships to serve the short haul routes

the short routes can work with existing ferries, they just need to charge what it costs to haul a vehicle.

ontario may think they're Canada's economic engine but they'd be wrong. Since 1990 Alberta's per capita NGDP has both been increasing and also the greatest in Canada. During that same time Ontario's has been falling. They are facing a financial meltdown with manufacturing jobs declining, massive provincial debt and an infrastructure that costs billions to maintain and improve.

exactly my point: Alberta's biggest customer is Ontario. That doesn't mean they can't find other markets, but there is growing pressure for Ottawa to invade Alberta and rape and pillage all that cash to prop up Ontario again.

don't forget that over half of our population resides in Ontario/Quebec and that still carries a huge economic weight in-itself. Alberta is just ripe for a good-old-fashioned ass-fucking and even Stevie harpooner won't hesitate to sell his family and home town to get Ontario's power elite behind his campaign of terror.

 

[gravitas]

Alberta's biggest customer is Ontario

Actually our biggest trading partner is the US. We like greenbacks

but there is growing pressure for Ottawa to invade Alberta and rape and pillage all that cash to prop up Ontario again

I can make two promises if the feds were to implement another NEP like program. First, I'd get my guns (and yes, being a redneck I have a few), load up my truck and park myself on the AB/SK border. I'd probably have a hard time finding a spot since I'll be competing for space with a million or so other Albertans. Second, and more realistic, the provincial government would move at lightening speed to separate. If you look at some of the subtle goings on Alberta is putting together the infrastructure and programs to be self-contained. Legislation has been discussed to roll out a provincial pension plan, we're opening up a justice college to train a provincial police force, the Legislature has been actively negotiating trade agreements with the US, UK, AsiaPac, etc. I've said this flippantly in the past but I sincerely believe that if push comes to shove we'll only be flying the Wild Rose and not the Maple Leaf.

don't forget that over half of our population resides in Ontario/Quebec and that still carries a huge economic weight in-itself

No doubt that with population comes perceived political power, however with marketable resources comes demonstrable strength.

even Stevie harpooner won't hesitate to sell his family and home town to get Ontario's power elite behind his campaign of terror.

No worries about Stephan, he's going to be too busy criminalizing prostitution, rolling out another prohibition on alcohol and closing the borders to any non-white immigrants.

 

[metoo113]

I can make two promises if the feds were to implement another NEP like program. First, I'd get my guns (and yes, being a redneck I have a few), load up my truck and park myself on the AB/SK border. I'd probably have a hard time finding a spot since I'll be competing for space with a million or so other Albertans. Second, and more realistic, the provincial government would move at lightening speed to separate. If you look at some of the subtle goings on Alberta is putting together the infrastructure and programs to be self-contained. Legislation has been discussed to roll out a provincial pension plan, we're opening up a justice college to train a provincial police force, the Legislature has been actively negotiating trade agreements with the US, UK, AsiaPac, etc. I've said this flippantly in the past but I sincerely believe that if push comes to shove we'll only be flying the Wild Rose and not the Maple Leaf

None of the things that you say to me point to Alberta getting ready to separate.

-Ontario has had a provincial police for for many years, are they separating?
-BC has negotiated many trade agreements with the US, Asia, etc. Are they separating?

Being that Albertains are the rednecks of the country, they like to blow off a little steam now and again by talking about separating but when they sober up they realize they should have kept their mouths shut.

Who would be the president, King Ralph ?? I hope Albertains realize that Ralph really isn't a good leader. A trained monkey could run Alberta just as well plus the monkey might be sober once in a while.

 

[gravitas]

-Ontario has had a provincial police for for many years, are they separating?

No, but there's a fundamental difference between the Alberta and Ontario mindset. Historically when Ontario was a "have" province they wouldn't separate because economically they were the manufacturing powerhouse and the rest of Canada were their captive market. As the economics have changed and Ontario is rapidly heading down the path of becoming a "have-not" province there is the realization that they'll have to rely on Alberta, Saskatchewan, etc for both resources and tax support. Culturally Ontario obviously has a longer presence in confederation and by default feel more Canadian.

BC has negotiated many trade agreements with the US, Asia, etc. Are they separating?

With your massive provincial debt, relatively high labor costs BC can't afford to separate. In addition there's never been the same sense of national disenfranchisement as felt by many Albertans.

Being that Albertains are the rednecks of the country, they like to blow off a little steam now and again by talking about separating but when they sober up they realize they should have kept their mouths shut.

As much as I joke about Albertans being rednecks I'd suggest you travel the country before you talk about sobering up. Whether a literal or figurative reference you haven't seen drunk rednecks till you've gone through parts of rural Quebec or Newfoundland. Churchill Falls makes Leduc look down right cosmopolitan.

I hope Albertains realize that Ralph really isn't a good leader.

Ralph was a good leader for the first 5 to 7 years of his administration. The tough decisions made during the early to mid 90's were required to stop the bleeding and turn the province around.