Austerity is coming to Alberta

storm rider

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EDMONTON — Alberta politicians have voted to cut their pay, but not before accusing each other of hidden agendas and political game playing.

An all-party member services committee agreed unanimously Tuesday to cut all elected members pay by five per cent, with an extra five per cent cut to the salary of Premier Jason Kenney.

United Conservative members on the committee were encouraged by Kenney to make the cut to fulfill a campaign commitment he made en route to the party winning a majority government in April.

The changes mean that Kenney now takes home about $186,000 a year, while cabinet members get $181,000 and rank-and-file legislature members get $121,000.

Even at $121,000, Albertan politicians make more than their closest provincial rival, Ontario, at $116,550.

"We were elected with a mandate to be fiscally responsible and that has to start at the top," said Kenney in a statement.

"Today’s decision is about leadership by example."

Opposition NDP members on the committee voted for the cut as the right thing to do, given Alberta's struggling oil and gas-based economy.

But they suggested that it was not grounded in self-sacrifice but by cynical politics employed by Kenney to give his government cover when they try to legislate pay cuts to public sector workers, likely this fall.

"Suggesting to cut the pay of politicians a few hundred dollars a month to give them licence to screw over the working people of Alberta is frankly ridiculous," NDP member Thomas Dang told the meeting.

Dang later withdrew the colourful but nevertheless unparliamentary verb.

Kenney has not said his government will cut public sector pay, but has said that those salaries make up half of Alberta's budget and have to be considered as his government fulfills a promise to balance Alberta's budget in four years.

United Conservative member Laila Goodridge, who moved the motions to cut political pay, rejected Dang's arguments.

"This was not political pandering," Goodridge told reporters. "This was simply keeping a promise."

The committee also voted to reduce MLA travel expenses, eliminate gas cards and harmonize the standard mileage rate with that of other public servants.

The pay debate sparked a larger cross-table partisan scrap over Kenney's handling of the economy. The NDP accused the UCP of failing to do its job by delaying key decisions on school and social program funding until after an independent panel reports next week on the state of Alberta's finances.

NDP members on the committee moved a motion to have cabinet ministers not get paid until the panel reports, but it was voted down by a UCP majority.

Goodridge told reporters the motion was political game playing not within the scope or spirit of the committee's mandate. "That was one of the most cynical motions I've seen in my time in politics."

The NDP also tried, and failed, to pass a motion urging Kenney's government not to use the pay cut as justification to cut other public sector salaries.

The province is currently clashing with unions representing about 180,000 public sector workers, including nurses, teachers, paramedics, health care workers, sheriffs and others.

The UCP passed legislation this spring to unilaterally change collective bargaining agreements to deny those workers binding wage arbitration until later this year, after the panel reports.

The unions say that's a breach of constitutionally protected bargaining rights and are taking the province to court.

Last week, a judge in Edmonton ordered that wage arbitration resume for about 70,000 workers with the Alberta Union of Provincial Employees, saying people need to know a government will live up to the contracts it signs.

Dean Bennett, The Canadian Press.

The above was cut and pasted from MSM.

I see serious Klein style cuts coming to the Public Sector and soon.It is bloated and massively over paid.This a lead by example type of action and to be blunt it is needed.When you have bureaucrats at AHS making 1 million+ a year
you have a serious problem.When you have nurses working a "super stat" and getting paid $200 an hour you have a serious problem.When you have 1 manager for every 3 employees you have a serious problem.

Last week the City of Calgary announced job layoffs.They said it was 220 positions but of those only 120 people would actually be laid off.The rest were retired employees whose vacant positions were not filled.Co the City laid off 120
people which represents less than 1% of it's workforce......and the Private Sector has AXED well over 100,000 jobs over the last 5 years.

The City of Calgary and the Province of Alberta do not have a revenue problem.They collectively have a SPENDING problem!

SR
 

80watts

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The pay cut the politicians are getting looks nice, but in the realm of things that saves a couple million dollars. Where as the cut to provincial employees will be in the tens of millions of dollars. Assume 5%.
5% of 200,000.00 is 10,000 so you are still making 190,000.00
5% of 60,000.00 is 3000 dollars so the prov employee is making 57,000.00

For a family of 4 190,000.00 goes alot futher than 57,000.00.

For provincial/Federal employee, they are supposed to get the state holiday off with pay. If you are a business owner and you have full time employee, you have to pay your workers for that state holiday. That is law.

The nurse that works on the holidays that makes 200 dollars, good for her... chances are that the nurse is working a triple shift, and is fucking tired, because someone called in sick... And full time nurses, are they working 40hr work weeks, probably not, more like 45 to 50 hrs a week (I'm being conservative here) and then have to work a stat holiday. Those nice mangement guys get paid 80,000 to 150,000 for not knowing how to schedule shit....

Lawyers make 300.00/hr and they are the salt of the earth...

I used to work for a min wage, at a carwash, the owner had a tip box set up. On a good day the tips could be over 100.00. at least once a week. The owner used to take the crew out to dinner every 3 months and pay for the meal. The would be 20/30 dollars (back in the 80s). The workers never saw any cash from the tips. So the tips could be 400/month. Cost of the meal for 7 workers would be 210.00 every 3 months. And the owner would get a tax write off for the meal. How fair was that... The owner would get 210 in tax credits (business write off) and all the free tip money....

My point here is that business owners do take their employees for granted, and really do fuck them over...

As for that spending problem,look at the contracts the gov gives out to the public for tender, public servants are far cheaper.

A cleaner makes 30.00/hr;40 hr work week and benifits.
Contractor, has a manager, and a cleaner. Cleaner makes 20.00 hr no benefits; manager makes 25.00/hr, plus owner needs to make a profit. How are these contracts cheaper that the 1 gov cleaner...
So the reason Alberta is in such deep shit for money, what money they had, they wasted away on contracts for highways that went nowhere....


And the gov workers that are overpaid, the government had to pay them that because the oil patch paid more... and they needed people to do the jobs. Same reason Timmy's was paying 20.00/hr for immigrant workers because everyone else was working in the patch....

And the Americans decided to commit environmental suicide by fracking dried up wells and drilling their oil reserves to get off Saudi oil and plummet world prices....

Dumb fuck Albertan companies kept pumping out oil and had a back log of oil in Alberta.. further contributing to the crisis of low price oil... (Law of supply and demand)

Then the oil transport lines came under public protest... further fucking Albertans

But the big thing is when Alberta was happy and swimming in oil money, they did not put away a single cent.... they didn't charge sales tax like the rest of the provinces in Canada... because they were rich in oil. They did not put away for the future....

Where is their Heritage Fund now (used to be 1,000,000,000.00)... The Norwegians have this Trillion dollar fund (oil in sea found in the early 1970s), set up to supply Norway with income far into the future... Oil in Alberta was found in the 1950s....

Yup greed and piss poor management of Alberta resources... And nobody went to jail.....

Charge PST. 5% will do... Provinces like NS charge at least 7% provincial sales tax (included in HST).

So Albertans can stop whining......

Yes Austerity is coming to Alberta..... they not going to like it much....

Oh and Albertans pay less auto insurance than BC does. I see alot of Alberta plates in BC...
https://www.ratelab.ca/category/car-insurance-by-province/
 

80watts

Well-known member
May 20, 2004
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The province is currently clashing with unions representing about 180,000 public sector workers, including nurses, teachers, paramedics, health care workers, sheriffs and others.

The City of Calgary and the Province of Alberta do not have a revenue problem.They collectively have a SPENDING problem!

Essential services....

Politicians spending problems always come with their friends attached... You know those nice contracts for roads that go nowhere and etc.... hidden at the back of a budget.....

SR, you want to lower the number of people (or their pay) looking after your health, by getting rid (or lowering their pay) of nurses, paramedic, and other health care workers. You are going to get older and eventually will need these services..(The majority of the population is over 40 and thats when the body starts to break down).
The City of Calgary also has sewage workers/plumbers that make sure your toilet flushes so it dosen't back up when you take a shit....

These workers are being paid on par with the rest of the provinces for the same jobs....

Don't forget about police and law and order....

Just a fact the.... first premier in Alberta to bring in PST, will not get elected again... But the PST will still stay in effect after the next election.... All the opposition has to do is "you brought in PST" and they will get elected.

The Money is too good.....

PS I like Albertans, they are also Canadians...
 

Crookedmember

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Sep 2, 2017
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Kenney is an ill-educated grifter who has no idea how to deal with Alberta's real problems, so we're going to see 4 years of this bullshit from him.

Alberta's problems are natural gas prices collapsed 11 years ago, world oil prices collapsed 6 years ago, and there's no recovery in sight.

Alberta's other problem is 44 years of Conservative rule failed to diversify the economy, nor did they save for a rainy day. There hasn't been a dime deposited to Lougheed's Heritage fund since '86.

They should have stuck with the pragmatic NDP. If they think electing these drunkards and bible school flunk-outs will be good for them, Albertans are even stupider than I thought.
 

Gardener

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May 9, 2017
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Alberta is fucked and it’s the conservatives who are to blame. The lack of policy to diversify the economy over the last 4 decades lies squarely on their laps. Norway, who also have huge depreciating energy resources, have a $500 billion sovereign wealth fund to guide its economy out of reliance on oil and gas. Alberta has nothing. What a giant multigenerational fail and it sits 100% with the conservatives. Bring in all the austerity you want, might as well be pissing in the wind. Kenney is also a total grifter, what a loser. Good luck with that.
 

overdone

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Apr 26, 2007
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Kenney is an ill-educated grifter who has no idea how to deal with Alberta's real problems, so we're going to see 4 years of this bullshit from him.

Alberta's problems are natural gas prices collapsed 11 years ago, world oil prices collapsed 6 years ago, and there's no recovery in sight.

Alberta's other problem is 44 years of Conservative rule failed to diversify the economy, nor did they save for a rainy day. There hasn't been a dime deposited to Lougheed's Heritage fund since '86.

They should have stuck with the pragmatic NDP. If they think electing these drunkards and bible school flunk-outs will be good for them, Albertans are even stupider than I thought.

you were doing well until the end, lol

pragmatic NDP, ahahaaaaaaa

the only thing the NDP did well, is the same that Turdeau is doing, driving us further into debt for no reason

the NDP, were the hyper equivalent of the PC's, they didn't save anything, they kept doing the same as the PC's did, spending more than they had, nothing else


Alberta is fucked and it’s the conservatives who are to blame. The lack of policy to diversify the economy over the last 4 decades lies squarely on their laps. Norway, who also have huge depreciating energy resources, have a $500 billion sovereign wealth fund to guide its economy out of reliance on oil and gas. Alberta has nothing. What a giant multigenerational fail and it sits 100% with the conservatives. Bring in all the austerity you want, might as well be pissing in the wind. Kenney is also a total grifter, what a loser. Good luck with that.
enough with the moronic comparison with Norway

it's a country, they aren't force to share their oil wealth with another 10 welfare states

if Alberta had all the revenue from it's oil back since it was first found here, even the drunk/demented Klein would have been able to put away 400 billion

we've given back over 200B to the federation in just the last 15yrs alone, with 2 recessions in that time period

if Alberta would have, after Klein cut 5%, kept spending to pop increase/inflation, which all gov'ts should be forced to do, we'd have had surpluses most yrs and at worst balanced budgets

our problem for the last 15yrs is overspending, plain and simple, the NDP didn't solve that, they made it worse, every yr for 4yrs

this isn't rocket science

we haven't been paying our way, no generation, in Canada since the first Turdeau got elected, he started the mentality

we've been in Debt every since, it's only getting worse

simple, 50% of gov't spending at provincial levels is wages/benefits

in Alberta, 2/3 of dollars spent are in 3 depts, Health, Edumacation, Welfare/Social Services, mostly in the first 2

Fed, not much better, 1/6 is going to welfare alone, then there's the overgrown public service

look at how many Turdeau has added in just 3yrs, have your services really improved that much? lol

VFM, should be a concept recognized here

it's not sustainable
 
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Gardener

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Fair point on the poor comparison to Norway. However the lack of any policy to meaningfully diversify the economy over the last 40 years is still crazy.
 

overdone

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Fair point on the poor comparison to Norway. However the lack of any policy to meaningfully diversify the economy over the last 40 years is still crazy.
of course it is crazy, but it goes back farther than 40yrs

as is the delusion that Lougheed was some kind of great leader, he wasn't

he stood by while the first Trudeau screwed Alberta, his actions were minimal, basic

he could/should have done far more to put the province on a path of sustainability, stood up against the Fed gov't raping us financially

Klein too, he cut 5%, then instead of righting the ship, did some things right, then dozed off the last 5 yrs

after that, Stelmach, complete moron, almost as bad as Redford, a Liberal

then the moron Prentice, who again, had the chance to use the recession to set things right, act like an adult, instead the idiot calls an election, Theresa May anyone!

NDP, even worse than all those mentioned above, same shit, bigger pile
 

storm rider

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Dec 6, 2008
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Kenney is an ill-educated grifter who has no idea how to deal with Alberta's real problems, so we're going to see 4 years of this bullshit from him.

Alberta's problems are natural gas prices collapsed 11 years ago, world oil prices collapsed 6 years ago, and there's no recovery in sight.

Alberta's other problem is 44 years of Conservative rule failed to diversify the economy, nor did they save for a rainy day. There hasn't been a dime deposited to Lougheed's Heritage fund since '86.

They should have stuck with the pragmatic NDP. If they think electing these drunkards and bible school flunk-outs will be good for them, Albertans are even stupider than I thought.
Nothing got put into the Heritage Fund since 1986 because Alberta had just been steamrollered by the NEP.Housing prices were in the tank and interest rates were in the double digits.

As for Governance of Alberta under Kenny I expect good things.I expect Klein style Governance to come forward.The accidental Government of the NDP was absolute SHIT.I knew the NDP was out come the next election.After the PC's merged with the WR it was game over for the NDP as there would be no right wing vote split and the NDP would get the benefit of the protest vote because Jim Prentiss said "Albertans need to look in the mirror"

As for the posts about a PST in Alberta.In order to have a PST the Government of Alberta must hold a referendum where the citizens get to vote yes or no.It is law on the books.In order to change this the Governing party must pass legislation to do so.Do it before an election even four years out....well the people wont forget it.

As for the matter of Norway and it's massive warchest all I can say is Norway is taking care of Norway.Alberta on the other hand has sent 200 Billion to Ottawa over the last 10 years,much of which has been funneled into Quebec and the Maritimes.Sucks hard when you have to take care of your own Province.Sucks harder when you are the endless supply of money to other Provinces.

SR
 

80watts

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First of all, we are Canadian Citizens first. Not Alberta, nor BC citizens; we are Canadian. We help one another.

I don't like the ideal of an welfare state, people who can work should work. Used to be a time in the 50 and 60 that most business would take on uneducated workers, just people willing to work. Then some shithead made having unemployment popular (ideal behind that was the business could pick the best workers). In the late 70,80, 90 there was high unemployment.

Nobody can predict the future least of all politicians who are trying get relected....

If you want to stop waste, have politician pensions start at 65 years and not after 2 elected terms...

Going after people that are trying to make a living, just sad....
 

northperv

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Kind of hard to save when you send a sizable tribute, well over $5000 for every man woman an child, to layabout Eastern provinces, the biggest beneficiary being Quebec. Truth is, Alberta does it all for Canada and Canada does nothing for Alberta.
 

Crookedmember

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Kind of hard to save when you send a sizable tribute, well over $5000 for every man woman an child, to layabout Eastern provinces, the biggest beneficiary being Quebec. Truth is, Alberta does it all for Canada and Canada does nothing for Alberta.
Transfer payments come from the personal income taxes all Canadians pay.
Nobody took Alberta's oil wealth. Those conservative fucktards frittered it away all by themselves.
They could have been Norway, but the backwater bumpkins are just too stupid.

Here, have some Klein bucks.
 

Crookedmember

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They're basically the same, except transfer payments have to be used for a specific purpose.

Fun fact. Jason Kenney was one of the authors of the current equalization formula and spent a lot of time defending it . . . until it became necessary for the bastard to start bashing it.

But anyways, nobody stole Alberta's oil wealth. They pissed it away all by themselves.

Equalization payments do not involve wealthy provinces making direct payments to poor provinces as the money comes from the federal treasury. As an example, a wealthy citizen in New Brunswick, a so-called "have not" province, pays more tax into the federal system and funds more equalization than a poorer citizen in Alberta that pays less federal tax, a so-called "have" province. However, because of Alberta's greater population and wealth, the citizens of Alberta as a whole are net contributors to equalization, while the government of New Brunswick, therefore the citizens, are net receivers of equalization payments.

Equalization payments are one example of what are often collectively referred to in Canada as "transfer payments..."
 

80watts

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Transfer payments: one of the reason to have it was to keep the population stable in certain areas of Canada.
 

Crookedmember

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14,000 full-time Alberta jobs were lost in the month of July and unemployment increased by 0.4% to 7%. There were significant job losses in the natural resources sector with an estimated 7,200 fewer people working than in June.

Gee, who would have thunk that electing a bunch of right wing backwater bumpkins led by a grifter and bible school flunk-out would lead to chaos?

Albertans must be the stupidest people on earth.
 

storm rider

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Gee, who would have thunk that electing a bunch of right wing backwater bumpkins led by a grifter and bible school flunk-out would lead to chaos?

Albertans must be the stupidest people on earth.
You are so out of touch with reality.I cant even fathom even trying to have a rational conversation with you.I feel I have lost 20 IQ points responding to this.

I have pointed out and listed hard FACTS yet you respond with crapulence/bullshit as well as all of the BS spun by the Leftist Media.

My response is the same as Ralph Klein back in the day.....Let them freeze in the dark.

For all of the Socialist BS agenda about saving the planet and the objections about twinning an existing pipeline I say the same thing.....let them freeze in the dark....no gasoline/no jet fuel....no nothing.....I guess after a month of an embargo like that all of the hypocrites would STFU because it would impact their lives.

SR
 

Gardener

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You are so out of touch with reality.I cant even fathom even trying to have a rational conversation with you.I feel I have lost 20 IQ points responding to this.

I have pointed out and listed hard FACTS yet you respond with crapulence/bullshit as well as all of the BS spun by the Leftist Media.

My response is the same as Ralph Klein back in the day.....Let them freeze in the dark.

For all of the Socialist BS agenda about saving the planet and the objections about twinning an existing pipeline I say the same thing.....let them freeze in the dark....no gasoline/no jet fuel....no nothing.....I guess after a month of an embargo like that all of the hypocrites would STFU because it would impact their lives.

SR
Last time I check CN and CP mainline run from Port of Vancouver to Alberta carrying a mountain of goods for Albertans. How does tit for tat strike you. Alberta shuts down our fuel and we shut down rail. What a stupid fucking idea and such a weak threat, dare I say pathetic. Btw, I’m in favour of twinning TMX, but these sad weak threats make Albertans look like fools.

Btw the majority of lower mainland gas and jet fuel comes from Cherry Point in Washington State. I’m sure they’d be happy to sell us more.
 

Hugh Jass

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May 11, 2015
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Btw the majority of lower mainland gas and jet fuel comes from Cherry Point in Washington State. I’m sure they’d be happy to sell us more.
Off the NEB website:
Refined Petroleum Products

Most of the gasoline consumed in B.C. comes from Alberta, delivered primarily via the Trans Mountain Pipeline. Gasoline is also produced in B.C.’s two refineries. Less than 10% the gasoline consumed in B.C. is imported via ship or barge from the U.S. Pacific Northwest.

https://www.neb-one.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd/mrkt/nrgsstmprfls/bc-eng.html

I would personally believe the mass of population and vehicles in the Lower Mainland require much more than the limited amount that Cherry Point provides.
 
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