Are those girls charging higher, "safer"???
- Thread starter big_bear
- Start date
fuck no. it's an illusion. if you pick up chicks at a upper class bar are you less likely to pick up an STD? no. The risk is always there. might not be as high as with a crack head ho, but it's still there.
Or it can mean a gal who regularly tests for everything the clinics test for and gets all negative results.
What do you mean "loaded and doesn't recognize the signs"? What mysterious signs are out there? STDs can show symptoms and those are properly described in any STD resources. But STDs can also be asymptomatic, hence the absolute requirement of regular testing. SPs who are any good in their business know that and follow the rule.
To the OP [original poster], girls who have their head on right are more likely to be healthy because they educate themselves about the risks, test regularly, establish their own safety and comfort zones and don't compromise them out of desperation. Look for those traits rather than price alone.
Ahh.
Thank you for elaboration.
I have recently discovered that a BBBJ several days after a sore throat or a cold can give the guy STD symptoms even without any of the STD bugs being detected by tests. And yes, the STD resources rarely expand on the fact that usually harmless bacteria can get sexually transmitted to uterus and cause problems.
See this thread in Health Forum:
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=95542
But then, UTIs can be developed even without sex so it doesn`t make sense to obsess about them: except to diligently follow common sense hygiene and avoid sex for 5-7 days after onset of any sort of cold (last time I talked to nurses they said it`s 5 days after you first show cold/flu symptoms till the time you are no longer contagious).
I agree with all of you...
Another point to remember though, is that girls who charge higher rates will usually see less clients a day than the girl who charges low rates. Also, in many cases, not to over-generalize) those charging lower rates often provide riskier services. (ie: rimming)
That being said, it can only take one time to catch something! Then there is Herpes, where you can catch it from viral shedding of the skin even when visably a person does not appear to have it... and in that case, condoms will not protect.
Another point to remember though, is that girls who charge higher rates will usually see less clients a day than the girl who charges low rates. Also, in many cases, not to over-generalize) those charging lower rates often provide riskier services. (ie: rimming)
That being said, it can only take one time to catch something! Then there is Herpes, where you can catch it from viral shedding of the skin even when visably a person does not appear to have it... and in that case, condoms will not protect.
its been ofton stated,
that seeing an sp is safer,
then picking up some one in a bar for a one night stand.
on the surface yes, i would agree, but it really depends on the sp,
i was curious about bareback, but worried about std's
asked around asked some girls there opinion's
alot of girls seem very casual about bareback,
only one lady replied to me, with some info, on std's and bareback,
and telling me she gets tested twice a month. gave me the dates when she is tested to.
i think it really depends on your sp, how serious or casual she takes the whole idea of std's
and quite honestly you never will really know for sure, and there is a risk,
even if you use a condom, there still is a risk
i have heard of one lady use a vaginal condom,
to me if you go that far i might as well stay at home,
another area,
kindof funny,
i kindof have a foot fetish.
you can get one hell of a sore throat from sucking on someones toes.
that seeing an sp is safer,
then picking up some one in a bar for a one night stand.
on the surface yes, i would agree, but it really depends on the sp,
i was curious about bareback, but worried about std's
asked around asked some girls there opinion's
alot of girls seem very casual about bareback,
only one lady replied to me, with some info, on std's and bareback,
and telling me she gets tested twice a month. gave me the dates when she is tested to.
i think it really depends on your sp, how serious or casual she takes the whole idea of std's
and quite honestly you never will really know for sure, and there is a risk,
even if you use a condom, there still is a risk
i have heard of one lady use a vaginal condom,
to me if you go that far i might as well stay at home,
another area,
kindof funny,
i kindof have a foot fetish.
you can get one hell of a sore throat from sucking on someones toes.
High end or low end.. its all the same risk IMO.
Sex in its self is a risk. weather it be a girl at the bar or an SP
you always run a risk. but such is life, and thats why SP's and pooners should
get tested regularly. even if you don't poon..
sure you run a higher risk if the gal is a user or the like. but you can pay
top dollar for a crack whore just the same as an elite companion...
just my 2cents worth
Sex in its self is a risk. weather it be a girl at the bar or an SP
you always run a risk. but such is life, and thats why SP's and pooners should
get tested regularly. even if you don't poon..
sure you run a higher risk if the gal is a user or the like. but you can pay
top dollar for a crack whore just the same as an elite companion...
just my 2cents worth
No, because as the girls seem healthier, your guard goes down more and more, which evens out any SLIGHTLY less-risky element they might have represented vs. the average haggard druggie on the street.Are those girls charging higher, "safer"???
in other words, they are more likely to be healthy?
then why bother getting tested at all.
and i kind of disagree with your conclusion, if the guy before had germs in his saliva.
it might if he was standing outside the door waiting for you to finish, but then even then i doubt it.
i was kindof hoping you girls, at least had a shower between guys or at least took a pee to wash everything away and maybe a wash cloth.
im not a doctor, but i would bet money that seeing one guy with germs doesn't mean the next guy is going to get infected.
it takes awhile for the infection to take hold and spread, and actually infect you and give you the disease,
just because you have a drop of dirty saliva some where, doesnt mean your going to pass it on to the next guy in enough of a concentrated form to pass the disease on.
love you guys but please don't say crack whore....
i think it's important not to fall into this way of thinking, workers on the street are there for the same reasons we all are, work...money.
we are lucky to be able to work safely, the lack of jobs with the closure of 23 strip clubs in 3 years and the closure of a number of massage parlors has forced those who can't work from home onto the street, no choice,kids have to eat, rent must be paid.
also, as the usually younger, more marketable exotic dancers enter the escort job market which is already strained to the max the trickle down effect is that some one looses their job and maybe pushed onto the street.
"othering" of sex industry workers who are suffering as a result of the effects of prohibition is silly. we are all the same, the escort, the exotic dancer, the porn star, the crack ho...if we don't care about "us" who will? please, remember that this way of thinking is why people think it's alright to kill us.
i want a t shirt that says crack ho...i'll wear it to meetings with the government!
By saying that, I ment the low low end working gals..
yes the ones on the street, that have fallen far from the lime light.
The addicts, the ones being controlled by an uncaring Pimp..
could be crack or any other drug of choice. I feel its a sad thing to see
them walking the streets, but I'm not about to pick one up.
sure there are girls on the street that are there just for the money
with no addictions. but they are far and few between.
I will refrain from using the term "Crack whore" and insert "Street walker" insted
yes the ones on the street, that have fallen far from the lime light.
The addicts, the ones being controlled by an uncaring Pimp..
could be crack or any other drug of choice. I feel its a sad thing to see
them walking the streets, but I'm not about to pick one up.
sure there are girls on the street that are there just for the money
with no addictions. but they are far and few between.
I will refrain from using the term "Crack whore" and insert "Street walker" insted
thanks babe!!
just for the sake of knowing, we define it as survival sex work- if you are on street, addicted or suffering PTSD, mentally ill..etc you are not there by choice like perhaps myself or other advertisers on here.
The BCCEC has developed the following definitions to illustrate sexual exchange and exploitation.
• Sex Work: Sex work is defined as the exchange of sexual services for remuneration where both parties consent and negotiate the details of the transaction.
• Survival Sex: Survival sex is defined as a state in which an individual lacks the opportunity to refuse work. Consequently, a survival sex environment is one that minimizes or eliminates a workers right to refuse work and otherwise imposes emotional or psychological pressure forcing the surrender of will. Free will and choice is subsequently lost.
just for the sake of knowing, we define it as survival sex work- if you are on street, addicted or suffering PTSD, mentally ill..etc you are not there by choice like perhaps myself or other advertisers on here.
The BCCEC has developed the following definitions to illustrate sexual exchange and exploitation.
• Sex Work: Sex work is defined as the exchange of sexual services for remuneration where both parties consent and negotiate the details of the transaction.
• Survival Sex: Survival sex is defined as a state in which an individual lacks the opportunity to refuse work. Consequently, a survival sex environment is one that minimizes or eliminates a workers right to refuse work and otherwise imposes emotional or psychological pressure forcing the surrender of will. Free will and choice is subsequently lost.
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i guess you missed the post on addiction as symptom of complex post traumatic stress or self harming tactic...people don't choose to be addicts, there is always an underlying factor. Like the commercial for anorexia says, not all suicide notes are in writing.
here's some info on the gaps in the system which mean people don't have choices to get out,get help,etc....those supports do not exist or have significant barriers for sex industry workers trying access;
A group of sex workers i work on these issues with had the privilege of utilizing Victim Services funding to host two Post Traumatic Stress Meetings among sex workers and front line staff July 26th and 27th, 2007. The July 26th meeting was attended by over 20 front line workers from Vancouver, Richmond and Surrey health and sex work organizations in addition to experiential professional working on the front lines. The July 27th meeting was intended to be exclusively for experiential professionals and active or former sex workers. There were around 12 individuals in attendance. Issues that limited these numbers were the timing of this second meeting.
3. During these meetings;
• Sex workers learned that very little work has been done to research the levels of PTSD experienced by sex industry workers in particular those who work in the dangerous street level environment. Some sex workers had been on the street for more than 30 years and had endured and witnessed unimaginable violence and hardship.
• Sex workers expressed that this environment was akin to a war zone and that the levels of PTSD affecting us could be compared to those affecting soldiers who have served in a war zone, Vietnam war veteran’s or holocaust survivors.
War Zone
1: a zone in which belligerents are waging war; broadly: an area marked by extreme violence
2: a designated area within which rights of neutrals are not respected by a belligerent nation in time of war.
• Sex workers learned how the children of trauma survivors or the children of holocaust survivors show a distinct set of symptoms including engaging in high risk behavior/ addiction and noted that trauma on these levels for this extended period of time will affect generations of people for years to come.
• Sex Workers acknowledged that the residential schools disaster has had a great impact for first nation’s people and first nation’s sex workers. The group acknowledged that a strategy specific to first nation’s sex workers would be absolutely necessary.
• Sex workers identified being re traumatized or made to feel unworthy by police, service providers, social workers, nurses and many others when seeking to report violence against them, access support or find assistance.
• Sex workers now understand addiction as a symptom of or coping mechanism for post traumatic stress and as such mandatory sobriety to access services becomes harmful to those using drugs or alcohol as a coping mechanism. These barriers are seen as one of the greatest contributors to society’s failure to address these issues in a way that does not compromise people’s safety.
• Sex workers now understand that the misdiagnosis of our symptoms has lead to wide spread harm through out our community. With symptoms that can be as extreme as hallucinations and strongly resemble the symptoms of schizophrenia, many have been prescribed mind altering drugs that they do not need and in fact harm them.
• Sex Worker Support Workers expressed frustration at the gaps that currently exist in services ie, mandatory sobriety.
• Sex Worker Support Workers expressed how lack of sex worker specific programming creates problems for finding safe places for sex workers.
• Sex Worker Support Workers expressed frustration with sex workers suffering with the symptoms of PTSD and now have a greater understanding of it’s causes and effects.
• Sex Worker Support Workers now have greater understanding of complex PTSD and it’s symptoms as it relates to vicarious trauma for the support workers themselves.
• Sex Worker Support Workers expressed a will to move forward together to design a strategy to raise awareness, capture best practices and fill the gaps that currently exist.
Information provided by the psychologist was in direct conflict with practices and policies of the Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General. For example, PTSD was noted as being cumulative however those who experience violence over long periods of time and who access Victim Services for compensation or counselling must link their trauma to one incident at one particular time. (so,we've been raped too many times,stupid eh?)
In order to recognize PTSD among sex workers and provide them with the counselling and support they require, more research needs to be done to define the disorder among sex workers. With empirical evidence, advocacy initiatives influence policies that currently exclude our most vulnerable members from the services they desperately need;
A series of focus groups/work shops which engage all stakeholders will work to identify gaps, increase awareness of complex PTSD, increase understanding of factors contributing to PTSD amongst sex workers, and create a strategy which can be embraced by the systems responsible for caring for sex workers that ensures the problems of the past are addressed and eliminated.
we have a proposal in front of the ministry for this action now and are waiting for a response.
aren't you tired of seeing no change, watching friends die,seeing lives destroyed...
my girlfriend works on the street is a heroine addict. a man beat her within an inch of her life,broke her hips, arm,ribs and both her legs and left her for dead. she's also been shot, stabbed....
the doctor likes to give her too little pain medication, so she always needs more and runs out before she's supposed too. when she has her pills she doesn't use heroine, when's she's out she has no choice....i guess because she's an "addict" you believe she should suffer.
well i'll tell you, i'd like to see how you made out if you lived through the shit this girl has seen. to dismiss her as some junkie is disgusting and show's no respect for the sex workers who came before you or those who have died.
here's part of a presentation i made to specialized victims services workers at their conference as the keynote speaker in regard to many of the statements you made. we are not giving them an "excuse", blaming the victims of trauma for the symptoms is ridiculous;
With all of the information emerging about the symptoms of PTSD, addiction as a coping mechanism and the dangers associated with interrupting people’s coping mechanisms, it’s difficult to find ways to ensure no harm within abstinence based funding environments. “Get clean” or off of drugs to receive support policies are compounding emotional harm for trauma survivors and are in direct conflict with the recommended treatment for such injuries. If you interrupt a person’s coping mechanisms before they are ready to deal with their injuries, their emotional stability becomes at risk, their symptoms could escalate and at the very least their recovery will be seriously impeded.
Some programs have found a way to by pass abstinence based approaches by including treatment of “relapse”. Instead of cutting off support because a person has relapsed into addiction and “used”, the reasons for the relapse are examined and addressed. New coping strategies and alternatives to self harm can be implemented/ suggested and over time these will help to limit exposure to emotionally triggering environments preventing or at least lessening future relapses.
So, yes “get clean” but with attention to relapse. This way funding for addictions treatment becomes available and still respects the symptoms of trauma survivors. I have included a tool for trauma survivors to map triggers and begin to self monitor in the handout’s at the front as well as a sheet detailing some alternatives to self harm you may find effective when providing support.
Physical contact- should be a last resort- touching/man handling the victim’s of violent crimes can further traumatize them. Members shared how being grabbed or restrained triggered them and contributed to their lack of trust in the systems designed to protect them. The explosive rage and extreme passion of trauma survivors when triggered can be difficult. Monitor their safety but maintain your distance. Restraining a trauma survivor during an episode can prolong the event and make their recovery from it longer and more difficult. Only in the most extreme cases should physical restraint be employed.
Over prescribing feeds addiction and under prescribing forces people to seek other ways to supplement prescriptions. Both situations are difficult and could result in harm to a trauma survivor. Too much and we are enabling, too little and people will take risks (like work in the dangerous street trade) to fill their needs. Try to remember this and see each individual case for what it is then with potential outcomes I mind asses what treatment/ prescription to employ
There is a tendency to blame the victim in these situations. A person who has been abused repeatedly is sometimes mistaken as someone who has a "weak character." Because of their chronic victimization, in the past, survivors have been misdiagnosed by mental health providers as having borderline, dependent, or masochistic personality disorder. When survivors are faulted for the symptoms the experience as a result of their victimization, they are being unjustly blamed
my girlfriend works on the street is a heroine addict. a man beat her within an inch of her life,broke her hips, arm,ribs and both her legs and left her for dead. she's also been shot, stabbed....
the doctor likes to give her too little pain medication, so she always needs more and runs out before she's supposed too. when she has her pills she doesn't use heroine, when's she's out she has no choice....i guess because she's an "addict" you believe she should suffer.
well i'll tell you, i'd like to see how you made out if you lived through the shit this girl has seen. to dismiss her as some junkie is disgusting and show's no respect for the sex workers who came before you or those who have died.
here's part of a presentation i made to specialized victims services workers at their conference as the keynote speaker in regard to many of the statements you made. we are not giving them an "excuse", blaming the victims of trauma for the symptoms is ridiculous;
With all of the information emerging about the symptoms of PTSD, addiction as a coping mechanism and the dangers associated with interrupting people’s coping mechanisms, it’s difficult to find ways to ensure no harm within abstinence based funding environments. “Get clean” or off of drugs to receive support policies are compounding emotional harm for trauma survivors and are in direct conflict with the recommended treatment for such injuries. If you interrupt a person’s coping mechanisms before they are ready to deal with their injuries, their emotional stability becomes at risk, their symptoms could escalate and at the very least their recovery will be seriously impeded.
Some programs have found a way to by pass abstinence based approaches by including treatment of “relapse”. Instead of cutting off support because a person has relapsed into addiction and “used”, the reasons for the relapse are examined and addressed. New coping strategies and alternatives to self harm can be implemented/ suggested and over time these will help to limit exposure to emotionally triggering environments preventing or at least lessening future relapses.
So, yes “get clean” but with attention to relapse. This way funding for addictions treatment becomes available and still respects the symptoms of trauma survivors. I have included a tool for trauma survivors to map triggers and begin to self monitor in the handout’s at the front as well as a sheet detailing some alternatives to self harm you may find effective when providing support.
Physical contact- should be a last resort- touching/man handling the victim’s of violent crimes can further traumatize them. Members shared how being grabbed or restrained triggered them and contributed to their lack of trust in the systems designed to protect them. The explosive rage and extreme passion of trauma survivors when triggered can be difficult. Monitor their safety but maintain your distance. Restraining a trauma survivor during an episode can prolong the event and make their recovery from it longer and more difficult. Only in the most extreme cases should physical restraint be employed.
Over prescribing feeds addiction and under prescribing forces people to seek other ways to supplement prescriptions. Both situations are difficult and could result in harm to a trauma survivor. Too much and we are enabling, too little and people will take risks (like work in the dangerous street trade) to fill their needs. Try to remember this and see each individual case for what it is then with potential outcomes I mind asses what treatment/ prescription to employ
There is a tendency to blame the victim in these situations. A person who has been abused repeatedly is sometimes mistaken as someone who has a "weak character." Because of their chronic victimization, in the past, survivors have been misdiagnosed by mental health providers as having borderline, dependent, or masochistic personality disorder. When survivors are faulted for the symptoms the experience as a result of their victimization, they are being unjustly blamed
This is great! I am not going to weigh in on a debate specifically ABOUT these definitions but I find it really progressive that there are separate definitions being made. Fact is, a lot of sex workers ARE in negative situations of some kind but there are also many of us that are not and are, in fact, living positively despite, or because of, our work.thanks babe!!
just for the sake of knowing, we define it as survival sex work- if you are on street, addicted or suffering PTSD, mentally ill..etc you are not there by choice like perhaps myself or other advertisers on here.
The BCCEC has developed the following definitions to illustrate sexual exchange and exploitation.
• Sex Work: Sex work is defined as the exchange of sexual services for remuneration where both parties consent and negotiate the details of the transaction.
• Survival Sex: Survival sex is defined as a state in which an individual lacks the opportunity to refuse work. Consequently, a survival sex environment is one that minimizes or eliminates a workers right to refuse work and otherwise imposes emotional or psychological pressure forcing the surrender of will. Free will and choice is subsequently lost.
There was an article in the paper last week, one of the free papers, all about some stuff that was going on at the library. At first I thought it was great until I read further...I get so tired of these articles saying that all sex workers are in negative situations. It's like they can't believe someone would actually choose, in a sane state, to do this kind of work. AND what bothers me the most is that most of these people do not have any direct experience or know anyone directly that works in the industry except possibly a street worker who does have addiction problems. They never call up the indys and ask them and if they ever did they would probably turn the story around "she sells her body so her babies can eat" instead of the truth which is "she has found a way to work part time and not only provide for her babies but have the free time and low stress to be there for them too doing a job she probably likes more than most of the readers like their jobs".
So the fact that an agency is developing 2 definitions is really great I think.
i'm not validating and clearly you are speaking from a none experiential perspective by that i mean you have never been an addict.
if you had read what i wrote you would have seen how over time alternative coping strategies can be implemented but to flat out interrupt a person current coping strategy could compound their problems.
do you want a possible solution? to see something new tried? i would think with your experiences you would. however, trauma is contagious and clearly you are affected by the things you have witnessed. remember your anger towards addicts is a symptom of being vicariously traumatized. try to see things in a broader light, not just us and them... know what i mean?
i know this wasn't the focus of this thread and that's the last i'll say. it's same argument i face every where i go to work politically.so sick of people putting everyone else's safety before sex worker safety. it's so depressing to have to explain over and over that we are people and that there's no difference between me and the survival sex worker, we are family,i feel responsible for them-(i guess i've got a little survivor guilt-yes, i worked on the street, it was brutal and i became a crack addict and have been clean since 1994-they estimate that 1% of sex workers survive the downtown east side).
just like there's no difference between the customers,you could be a dumpster diver or a millionaire...when you come to my door you are a king.
cheers Katlyn- the definitions were drafted by the BC Coalition of Experiential Communities- a cohort of sex workers who work to bring safety and stability to the sex industry of which i'm a member!
love susieXXXO
if you had read what i wrote you would have seen how over time alternative coping strategies can be implemented but to flat out interrupt a person current coping strategy could compound their problems.
do you want a possible solution? to see something new tried? i would think with your experiences you would. however, trauma is contagious and clearly you are affected by the things you have witnessed. remember your anger towards addicts is a symptom of being vicariously traumatized. try to see things in a broader light, not just us and them... know what i mean?
i know this wasn't the focus of this thread and that's the last i'll say. it's same argument i face every where i go to work politically.so sick of people putting everyone else's safety before sex worker safety. it's so depressing to have to explain over and over that we are people and that there's no difference between me and the survival sex worker, we are family,i feel responsible for them-(i guess i've got a little survivor guilt-yes, i worked on the street, it was brutal and i became a crack addict and have been clean since 1994-they estimate that 1% of sex workers survive the downtown east side).
just like there's no difference between the customers,you could be a dumpster diver or a millionaire...when you come to my door you are a king.
cheers Katlyn- the definitions were drafted by the BC Coalition of Experiential Communities- a cohort of sex workers who work to bring safety and stability to the sex industry of which i'm a member!
love susieXXXO
Although Susi and Jana took the topic of the thread in another direction I found their discussion very interesting. They are capable advocates for their positions and very informative.
I wish I could refer some of my narrow minded friends and relatives to this board so they could see a non-stereotypic view of sex work and sex workers.
I wish I could refer some of my narrow minded friends and relatives to this board so they could see a non-stereotypic view of sex work and sex workers.
My feeling is that the more expensive the escort, the fewer clients she is seeing and that the clients she does see will be of a higher education and income level than lower priced escorts.
Very few of the higher priced escorts do BBBJ/CIM which is very common with lower priced Asian escorts.
More Clients = Greater Risk
Lower income = Greater Risk
No activity with anyone is without risk no matter how small - just manage the risk.
Very few of the higher priced escorts do BBBJ/CIM which is very common with lower priced Asian escorts.
More Clients = Greater Risk
Lower income = Greater Risk
No activity with anyone is without risk no matter how small - just manage the risk.
