Apocalypse Now

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marsvolta

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I always hear people complaining about Trump fucking the US up but it's mostly about their hatred for him, not how their lives are affected. My family, relatives and friends over there certainly aren't.
i'd agree that anything unfortunate Trump has done can be undone. and its maybe a good thing that US democracy, that is on many levels based on traditional norms instead of actual law, has been tested and thus can be enforced. the whole divisive thing will start to weigh on policy going forward for years now.

i find this article interesting... it was Regan who killed the Fairness Doctrine, allowing Fox News, MSNBC and others to be completely polarized "opinion news" environments. and yet "conservatives" are now complaining that social media environments are becoming too polarized because of the abandoning of the Fairness Doctrine.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/18/trump-free-speech-big-tech-459833
 

masterpoonhunter

"Marriage should be a renewable contract"
Sep 15, 2019
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I hesitate to weigh in on politics. By its nature, discussions tend towards conflict and some convictions and beliefs are so strong that arguing is pointless. In many discussions just end disappearing up one's own asshole in ever diminishing circles. Point in case the many completely political threads we have going in the Lounge. Other than venting and maybe some name calling what gets accomplished? Anyone change their politics because of it?

The thing is, one has to be educated about the politics that are affecting one's own life. If you are not, its the same as your money. Look after it or someone else will look after it for you and you may not like the outcome. There still is a segment of the population that cops out saying I have no interest in politics and just don't follow it. And don't vote or if they do they waste their vote. Then they bitch and moan when a political decision is made that directly affects them, ie their taxes go up or a service vanishes, or ... insert topic here. Over the years I have come to appreciate that politics is more than just the governing body. It affects the environment, my neighbourhood, the potential for me to do what I want and if we get down to it, our ability to have such a great time, pretty freely pooning as we do. Just think if laws start getting passed and enforced based on some fundamentalist ideas that pooning is causing societal breakdown ...

This thread seems to be that we in Canada are about to experience the end of days. That our current federal gov't is fucking us all over and all of us, our kids and their kids and everyone's dog and cat is just flat out doomed. Well, maybe there is an asteroid heading our way and the extinction event will be over like ... THAT. Or maybe its a slow painful death made more excruciating as we all have to be subjected to some political power that we wholeheartedly disagree with.

But really ask yourself. Are you all that hard done by? Freedoms and your liberty curtailed? Are you discriminated against? Hungry and living rough? Is the federal deficit directly affecting your life? Is Canada any different than any other country in running up spending during the pandemic? Do those countries have a looming apocalypse? These numbers are way beyond my pay grade and frankly will not affect me or my kids for that matter. Canada is not an island and economies are all global now, so to me, very little will change.

I had been a life long red tory, probably still am but really sit in the center as far as I can tell. Early 80's in Alberta I went radical and joined the Free the West and let the Eastern Bastards Freeze movement. Couldn't stand Pierre and still have a distaste for him. Entitled ass holes was my way of thinking. Yeah those are still there. Ethics in federal institutions have never been corrected. But after going through all the various permutations of government, I am in a better place than I have ever been, more resources, I mean I could wax eloquently about how pretty good things are. Do I let the fact that the son of a guy I never liked is the leader of the country irk me? I view it as putting your finger in a pond and pulling it out. The waves are small and they're gone quickly so for me at least I am not bothered.

Now if you look at what the dTrumpster fires burning in the south are causing, woo eee, that is a different deal and I'm sure glad I am north of that!!

Cheers all - Happy Pooning.
 
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appleomac

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Really?! You are still spewing all those Conservative K-tel classics? Can't you think for yourself or find actual policy to criticize?

Let's start with the Conservatives' refusal to take Syrian refugees, not just because they aren't humanitarians or because they are anti-Islamists, but because they claimed terrorists would stream into Canada. The Liberals instead accept 25,000 Syrian refugees in the four months from November 2015 to February 2016 and continue to do so, and amazingly, no acts of terror ensue.

Or how about climate policy? The Conservatives don't have one and still dispute that human caused climate change is even a thing, while the Liberals' climate policy is based on science.

Science? The Conservatives gutted funding science and eliminated basing policy on science based decision making. The Liberals instead brought back funding to science and rely on it to make informed policy decisions.

Anyways, you get the drift. So maybe instead of being ignorant, the electorate just aren't interested in your K-tel Classics and are more interested in actual policy.
Aren't you just guilty of doing the same as you accuse others of (i.e. "spewing K-tel classics")? Just a couple of quick examples.

You point to "the Conservatives' refusal to take Syrian refugees...". That's absolutely incorrect. If memory serves, in the 2015 election, the Conservatives pledged to take 10,000 refugees - 10,000 is certainly less than 25,000, but 10,000 is alot more than what you were erroneously implying as an outright refusal to accept (which would imply ZERO).

Climate policy, you claim "the Conservatives don't have one". Again, that is categorically incorrect. Under normal circumstances I would say you just don't like it, but I would wager you haven't even read it. I mean, if memory serves, in the last election, the Conservative climate policy document was roughly 50 odd pages or so, but again, you probably didn't even read it. I trust you wouldn't have liked it even if you did read it. Nonetheless, your claim that the Conservatives don't have a climate policy is completely incorrect.

Federal science funding; exactly what does gutted mean? What percentage of funding needs to be decreased to be considered "gutted", 5%, 15%, 30%? In any event, as per Stats Canada...

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl...dYear=2020&referencePeriods=20050101,20200101
Under Harper Federal expenditures on science and tech increased to around $11.5 billion, it also decreased in the later part of Harper's tenure back down to under $10.5 billion. Now, if you believe any amount of funding decrease is an example of being "gutted" well than I guess the Liberals are also guilty of "gutting" as for the 2020 year, funding is showing a slight decrease. In any event, it's tough to say the Conservatives "gutted" science funding as it was higher when they left office as compared to when they took office!

In your last paragraph you claim, "the electorate just aren't interested in your K-tel Classics and are more interested in actual policy." Your statement may or may not be true, but clearly, I don't think you are interested in actual policy as I don't even believe you read policies and you clearly make incorrect statements about policy (when clearly you haven't read the policy you criticize)!
 
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Sharj

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Aug 23, 2020
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you're not paying close enough attention then

there are plenty of comparisons to Trump

Trudeau has done more than a few things that are very similar to Trump's actions, just from the left side

not that Trump was right, he's not left either, he's neither

Trudeau is though a true Left wingnut

sure Trudeau isn't egging on violence, but if you think he isn't advocating division

then you're delude, there are plenty of on the record statements that couldn't be interpreted any other way

people who disagree with him, he calls Nazis

or in other words a conservative

he's shown he doesn't think the law applies to him, SNC, among other examples

his bullshit declaration that women love him, Trump thinks they do too

they just "experience it differently" when he grabs their pussy

like when the sock model grabs someone's ass

cause he's a feminist, who can't handle women who stand up to him, just ask Raybold and Phillipot

Trumps not a racist, he's got a black in the audience

Trudeau's not a racist, he's got pics to prove it

he dressed up and acted and danced like an ape as a homage to Blacks

just like the costume party with the Turban, where no one else dressed up

normal non racist stuff

he's less obnoxious, sure, cause he's got nice hair

he also has no experience or talent for the job, spare me he was an MP for a few years, check his attendance record, he was too busy ripping off public agencies and non profits along with other idiots who were so stupid that they though listening to the lisped wonder regurgitate cliche phrases was worth 10,000

he's nothing more than a name, brand, like Trump

could go on, but if you already can't see the obvious things that are similar, you wouldn't have said there was no comparing the 2

it's a different degree of separation, but it is there

we aren't better off, we're heading down the same road

a race to the bottom

we have nothing to brag about compared to the US

comparing two piles of shit, which is bigger

South Park already did that one

if Canada was so heavenly, we wouldn't have elected Trudeau again, even to a minority
I presume you going to form a new party federaly in next election and run so you can make Canada better for you and rest of it’s?
 

CanineCowboy

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Feb 5, 2010
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so what options do we have? trudope is a no, conservative party is like 1950’s Republicans, ndp is too socialist, green party is too make belief, and blocques Quebecois je ne suis pas francaise. je suis fucked.
The constant use of 'trudope', 'drama teacher', 'sock model', 'trust fund kid' ... to through shade on the Prime Minister is unoriginal and actually very Trumpian (ie Sleepy Joe).
Aren't you just guilty of doing the same as you accuse others of (i.e. "spewing K-tel classics")? Just a couple of quick examples.

You point to "the Conservatives' refusal to take Syrian refugees...". That's absolutely incorrect. If memory serves, in the 2015 election, the Conservatives pledged to take 10,000 refugees - 10,000 is certainly less than 25,000, but 10,000 is alot more than what you were erroneously implying as an outright refusal to accept (which would imply ZERO).

Climate policy, you claim "the Conservatives don't have one". Again, that is categorically incorrect. Under normal circumstances I would say you just don't like it, but I would wager you haven't even read it. I mean, if memory serves, in the last election, the Conservative climate policy document was roughly 50 odd pages or so, but again, you probably didn't even read it. I trust you wouldn't have liked it even if you did read it. Nonetheless, your claim that the Conservatives don't have a climate policy is completely incorrect.

Federal science funding; exactly what does gutted mean? What percentage of funding needs to be decreased to be considered "gutted", 5%, 15%, 30%? In any event, as per Stats Canada...

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl...dYear=2020&referencePeriods=20050101,20200101
Under Harper Federal expenditures on science and tech increased to around $11.5 billion, it also decreased in the later part of Harper's tenure back down to under $10.5 billion. Now, if you believe any amount of funding decrease is an example of being "gutted" well than I guess the Liberals are also guilty of "gutting" as for the 2020 year, funding is showing a slight decrease. In any event, it's tough to say the Conservatives "gutted" science funding as it was higher when they left office as compared to when they took office!

In your last paragraph you claim, "the electorate just aren't interested in your K-tel Classics and are more interested in actual policy." Your statement may or may not be true, but clearly, I don't think you are interested in actual policy as I don't even believe you read policies and you clearly make incorrect statements about policy (when clearly you haven't read the policy you criticize)!
https://globalnews.ca/news/2157321/reality-check-do-harpers-syrian-refugee-numbers-add-up/
Look at the Conservatives actual record in government regarding Syrian refugees; what they previously promised; and, what their election campaign promise was. Their record was embarrassing, their plan was spread over 4 years and was in conjunction with a previous promise and their fear mongering about terrorists was shameful.

The Liberals delivered on their promise in three months and continue to draw Syrian refugees.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/li...-green-climate-change-election-2019-1.5298193
When the Conservatives left office Canada was on track to miss their Paris Climate Agreement 2030 target by 300megatonnes and continue to struggle to talk about climate change as being human caused. The Liberals have dropped that gap to 79megatonnes.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/polit...sts-urge-harper-to-end-funding-cuts-1.2063474https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3212403https://www.google.com/amp/s/biv.co...ores-fisheries-act-measures-gutted-harper?amp
Hmmm, science. Harper muzzled and defunded scientists to limit criticism of Canada's tar sands and cut funding to departments like fisheries to limit environmental protection. Trudeau restored funding and unmuzzled Government scientists.

Apple I digest policy to get to the actual meat, what is promised and what is delivered.

And btw, I am not a Liberal voter, l vote left of center.
 

appleomac

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Aug 9, 2010
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Apple I digest policy to get to the actual meat, what is promised and what is delivered.
No, I believe you do not. Someone who actually "digests policy" would never claim a policy doesn't exist when it does. And everything else you said in reply, was simply shifting. As an example, first you claim/implied the Conservatives refused to permit any Syrian refugees, and now you have shifted the narrative to "look at their actual record" on refugees. Regardless of what the record is, to bring it back to your original claim - the record is MORE than ZERO!
 

CanineCowboy

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Feb 5, 2010
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No, I believe you do not. Someone who actually "digests policy" would never claim a policy doesn't exist when it does. And everything else you said in reply, was simply shifting. As an example, first you claim/implied the Conservatives refused to permit any Syrian refugees, and now you have shifted the narrative to "look at their actual record" on refugees. Regardless of what the record is, to bring it back to your original claim - the record is MORE than ZERO!
It is like saying they don't drink, about a person who has a glass or two a year. In practice they aren't drinkers. It's a nuance.

The UNHCR were crying for countries to take refugees, what was the Conservatives response?

Look at the fucking numbers bro. Or are you too distracted by all those helicopters falling from the sky?
 

appleomac

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Aug 9, 2010
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It is like saying they don't drink, about a person who has a glass or two a year. In practice they aren't drinkers. It's a nuance.

The UNHCR were crying for countries to take refugees, what was the Conservatives response?

Look at the fucking numbers bro. Or are you too distracted by all those helicopters falling from the sky?
There is no nuance in claiming the Conservatives refused to accept refugees, when in fact they did. They took refugees, and when the Syrian refugee crisis was ongoing in 2015, they pledged to take 10,000 during the election. So to answer your questions about what was the Conservative response, as it relates to the Syrian refugee crisis and the 2015 election, their response was basically, "we'll accept 10,000." You may believe it wasn't enough, that's a fair argument, but your initial claim was that the Conservatives refused to accept any - that is undeniably incorrect.
 

CanineCowboy

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Feb 5, 2010
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There is no nuance in claiming the Conservatives refused to accept refugees, when in fact they did. They took refugees, and when the Syrian refugee crisis was ongoing in 2015, they pledged to take 10,000 during the election. So to answer your questions about what was the Conservative response, as it relates to the Syrian refugee crisis and the 2015 election, their response was basically, "we'll accept 10,000." You may believe it wasn't enough, that's a fair argument, but your initial claim was that the Conservatives refused to accept any - that is undeniably incorrect.
The refugee crisis started in 2011, the Conservatives accepted 2302 refugees from the beginning of 2013 to August 2015, the Liberals accepted 25,000 in three months (November 2015 to the end of February 2016) and a total of 63,938 by April 30, 2019. The Conservatives were promising 10,000 in four years, and had missed their previous target.

You can argue all you want but if you can't see the difference in policy, you are too distracted by those helicopters falling out of the sky?

Inside joke about your claim that WorkSafe BC doesn't provide employers with no fault insurance coverage for their employees, you claimed that it wasn't no fault because a construction worker would not be covered by their employer's insurance when a helicopter fell out of the sky and killed them. Your arguments always take the same tone and ignore the obvious.
 

appleomac

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Aug 9, 2010
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The refugee crisis started in 2011, the Conservatives accepted 2302 refugees from the beginning of 2013 to August 2015, the Liberals accepted 25,000 in three months (November 2015 to the end of February 2016) and a total of 63,938 by April 30, 2019. The Conservatives were promising 10,000 in four years, and had missed their previous target.

You can argue all you want but if you can't see the difference in policy, you are too distracted by those helicopters falling out of the sky?

Inside joke about your claim that WorkSafe BC doesn't provide employers with no fault insurance coverage for their employees, you claimed that it wasn't no fault because a construction worker would not be covered by their employer's insurance when a helicopter fell out of the sky and killed them. Your arguments always take the same tone and ignore the obvious.
I'm not arguing what the difference in policy is - your are now arguing difference in policy as a response to me demonstrating that you were undeniably wrong when it came to your claim that the Conservatives refused to accept refugees. So again, you are trying to shift the narrative when it is clear that your initial assertion that the Conservatives refused to accept refugees was shown to be incorrect!

As for your "inside joke." If memory serves, you claimed that WorkSafe provides a death benefit if an employee dies on the job. That is INCORRECT. WorkSafe provide no fault insurance to workers injured on the job. Note the KEY WORD of INJURED, not necessarily DEATH. As per WorkSafe's own website...

"Your insurance protects you from lawsuits by workers who are injured on the job.

WorkSafeBC insurance protects employers from being sued by workers for injuries which occur during the course of their employment. This means that workers give up the right to sue employers in the event of a workplace injury in exchange for covering the cost of health care and rehabilitation services as well as wage loss benefits."

Now, if you truly still believe WorkSafe provides for an automatic "death benefit" - clearly, you do not know the difference between "injuries" and "death".

For someone that claims to read and "digest policy" - you've clearly demonstrated that you in fact don't read anything. Or at least cannot comprehend what you read. Give it a rest mate!
 
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happycanuck99

Sucker for a smile! :)
Jun 28, 2018
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I enjoy the back-and-forth of this thread, but why not keep it civil and mature? Cracks like "you are too distracted by those helicopters falling out of the sky" and "you've clearly demonstrated that you in fact don't read anything. Or at least cannot comprehend what you read" turn me off so completely. If it keeps up I'll definitely stop reading it, but... why not keep it interesting without the personal attacks?
 

Metaxa

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Apr 25, 2020
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The refugee crisis started in 2011, the Conservatives accepted 2302 refugees from the beginning of 2013 to August 2015, the Liberals accepted 25,000 in three months (November 2015 to the end of February 2016) and a total of 63,938 by April 30, 2019. The Conservatives were promising 10,000 in four years, and had missed their previous target.

You can argue all you want but if you can't see the difference in policy, you are too distracted by those helicopters falling out of the sky?

Inside joke about your claim that WorkSafe BC doesn't provide employers with no fault insurance coverage for their employees, you claimed that it wasn't no fault because a construction worker would not be covered by their employer's insurance when a helicopter fell out of the sky and killed them. Your arguments always take the same tone and ignore the obvious.
Good on the Libs for upping the number of refugees.I’m all for it. Perhaps the screening process that the Cons established for Syrian refugees finally got up to speed. Of course some people are stupid enough to believe that any refugee claiming refugee status should be automatically believed. Kind of like our Great Woke Leader: “the woman must always be believed”. Unless of course it’s him and then: “sometimes people just experience things differently”

How do you feel about the number of Canadians who have died, and the number of Canadians who will die, because the Libs fucked up on vaccine procurement? How do you feel about Trudeau’s Trumpian lie that it is because of a lack of domestic manufacturing capacity?
 

CanineCowboy

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Feb 5, 2010
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Good on the Libs for upping the number of refugees.I’m all for it. Perhaps the screening process that the Cons established for Syrian refugees finally got up to speed. Of course some people are stupid enough to believe that any refugee claiming refugee status should be automatically believed. Kind of like our Great Woke Leader: “the woman must always be believed”. Unless of course it’s him and then: “sometimes people just experience things differently”

How do you feel about the number of Canadians who have died, and the number of Canadians who will die, because the Libs fucked up on vaccine procurement? How do you feel about Trudeau’s Trumpian lie that it is because of a lack of domestic manufacturing capacity?
Haha! Trying to pass on credit to the CPC for the Liberals' policy and efficiency, nice. The initial screening had already been done by the UNHCR, but the 'new' Tories were dragging their feet, remember they were pandering to the white nationalists under their 'tent'.

You can keep spewing your vaccine conspiracies, as of today we are thirteenth in the world at actual vaccinations delivered and have procured more possible vaccines per capita than any other country in the world. I am looking forward to when we can donate our oversupply to less fortunate countries.

The responsibility for Covid deaths in Canada really rests on our population that seem to be exercising exceptionalism when it comes to compliance with public health orders (and a few provinces that have been reluctant to impose restrictions because they were too busy trumpeting personal freedoms and business interests).
 

happycanuck99

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I wasn't sure what emoji to use on this post.

Haha! Trying to pass on credit to the CPC for the Liberals' policy and efficiency, nice. The initial screening had already been done by the UNHCR, but the 'new' Tories were dragging their feet, remember they were pandering to the white nationalists under their 'tent'.
I tend to be of the opinion that governments don't act in a vacuum, and that the Libs and Cons really aren't all that much different, and to a large degree they just slightly modify the work they inherit from the previous government. (Obviously I pretty much have to restrict that to Canada, since it seems that each president of our neighbor to the south starts by trying to undo and replace much of the work of his predecessor.) I'm probably somewhat Pollyanna-ish, but I think both parties were trying to do the right thing with immigration. I like the fact that the Libs have expedited it and gotten things moving more, but I also cling to the idea that the Cons were trying. Yeah, perhaps I give them too much benefit-of-the-doubt, but... there's a reason I chose Happy as a pseudonym. :)

... as of today we are thirteenth in the world at actual vaccinations delivered and have procured more possible vaccines per capita than any other country in the world. I am looking forward to when we can donate our oversupply to less fortunate countries.

The responsibility for Covid deaths in Canada really rests on our population that seem to be exercising exceptionalism when it comes to compliance with public health orders (and a few provinces that have been reluctant to impose restrictions because they were too busy trumpeting personal freedoms and business interests).
I like this. I like how well Canada is doing, relatively speaking, and I like your idea of donating our oversupply. :)
 
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Amerix

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The responsibility for Covid deaths in Canada really rests on our population that seem to be exercising exceptionalism when it comes to compliance with public health orders (and a few provinces that have been reluctant to impose restrictions because they were too busy trumpeting personal freedoms and business interests).
I disagree. The responsibility for Covid deaths in Canada rests with our utter inability to keep seniors' homes Covid free and our government's irresponsible decision to not examine existing off-patent medicine for use in treating or preventing Covid infections (specifically Ivermectin. which probably could have prevented over 90% of our Covid deaths).
 

CanineCowboy

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I wasn't sure what emoji to use on this post.



I tend to be of the opinion that governments don't act in a vacuum, and that the Libs and Cons really aren't all that much different, and to a large degree they just slightly modify the work they inherit from the previous government. (Obviously I pretty much have to restrict that to Canada, since it seems that each president of our neighbor to the south starts by trying to undo and replace much of the work of his predecessor.) I'm probably somewhat Pollyanna-ish, but I think both parties were trying to do the right thing with immigration. I like the fact that the Libs have expedited it and gotten things moving more, but I also cling to the idea that the Cons were trying. Yeah, perhaps I give them too much benefit-of-the-doubt, but... there's a reason I chose Happy as a pseudonym. :)



I like this. I like how well Canada is doing, relatively speaking, and I like your idea of donating our oversupply. :)

https://www.ekospolitics.com/index....-reshaping-the-political-landscape-in-canada/
Happycanuck, I wish I could agree with you that there isn't a marked difference between Liberals and Conservatives and their views on immigration and visible minorities/non-whites, but survey data strongly suggests differently.

There is very clearly an alarming trend .

1611346878158.png

The correlation between education/social class and racist views is also very alarming, but note the pollsters concern about sample size.

1611347062999.png
 

happycanuck99

Sucker for a smile! :)
Jun 28, 2018
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Happycanuck, I wish I could agree with you that there isn't a marked difference between Liberals and Conservatives and their views on immigration and visible minorities/non-whites, but survey data strongly suggests differently.
Oh don't even get me started on polarization. I think it will end up being one of the most damaging forces in our modern world. (For example, given the situation in the US, I find myself wondering these days what a civil war without well-defined geographical boundaries would look like?!?) But that's where my sanguine nature comes in. I see the polarization as being extreme in the US, and feel it isn't nearly as bad in Canada YET. I REALLY hope we don't follow the trend. Also, whereas the polls and statistics are very interesting (and cause for some concern), I think they tend to include more of the fringe elements than the parties themselves do. For example, whereas there is definitely too much of a fringe right-wing population who would obviously vote Conservative because that's the most right-wing national party we have in Canada, I don't think the party is that far right yet. In fact, as I recall, a member quite recently got booted out of caucus for accepting donations from a white supremacist's group. You could argue that's just the Cons trying to keep a pretty, respectable public image, but I'm still not quite that cynical. (I warned you I was Pollyanna-ish, right? :) )
 

Metaxa

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Apr 25, 2020
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Haha! Trying to pass on credit to the CPC for the Liberals' policy and efficiency, nice. The initial screening had already been done by the UNHCR, but the 'new' Tories were dragging their feet, remember they were pandering to the white nationalists under their 'tent'.

You can keep spewing your vaccine conspiracies, as of today we are thirteenth in the world at actual vaccinations delivered and have procured more possible vaccines per capita than any other country in the world. I am looking forward to when we can donate our oversupply to less fortunate countries.

The responsibility for Covid deaths in Canada really rests on our population that seem to be exercising exceptionalism when it comes to compliance with public health orders (and a few provinces that have been reluctant to impose restrictions because they were too busy trumpeting personal freedoms and business interests).
What vaccine conspiracies am I spewing?

Thirteenth in the world. How impressive. And the only government who has blamed a 13th place finish on a lack of domestic production capacity. A blatant lie.
 
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