An Inconvenient Truth

nube

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citylover said:
Commie luvver, commie luvver - them oil company types will get into bed w/ anyone if it mean a buck for them (does this make them SPs?)

only got them East European & Russian oil interests to back youse up in your fantasy that global warming ain't happening
(if THAT'S not comedy, I don't know what is)

commie luvver, commie luvver

You are HILARIOUS!
C-lover if you've run out of good debatable arguements, don't scoop to a level as low as this....it calls to question any valid points you may have raised previously.

There is an old saying " It is better to be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

Sometimes I forget that too :D
 

Damaged

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nube said:
....it calls to question any valid points you may have raised previously.
I don't believe he had any valid points. Just gibberish.

nube said:
....There is an old saying " It is better to be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"...
Not to worry, there is no doubt to whether Citylover is a fool.
 

citylover

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I stand corrected. I shoulda said "luvver of anyone & anything, no matter how bizarre or obscure, that parrots the interest of big oil & big coal"

I hope the bozos repeating the company line really are part of the energy industry; other wise they have no business being on a board about SPs because they're just giving it away for free.

They just want the rest of us to bend over for the soap, too. & pay for the privilege.
 

maxx50

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I will kill this tread.

Sorry could not resist ..
But I will make a comment on the ass end here! .
It seem that the biggest excuses not to deal with global worming .. is well we can't beat the oil companies Well if you can't bet them join.. they all are publicly traded companies.. i a sure there are a few million .. earth mothers out there that can afford a few stocks each .. well be for they know it that few million people have a controlling interest in a bunch of major oil companies .. all you do then is put your proxies together .. and make the company go in he direction you want it to go... And if you can't do that how do you think you are going to stop what you think is the cause of global worming
It is in your hands..as long as you are not just thinking about the dollar.
But then maybe that is an inconvenient truth!:rolleyes:
 

sdw

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maxx50 said:
Sorry could not resist ..
But I will make a comment on the ass end here! .
It seem that the biggest excuses not to deal with global worming .. is well we can't beat the oil companies Well if you can't bet them join.. they all are publicly traded companies.. i a sure there are a few million .. earth mothers out there that can afford a few stocks each .. well be for they know it that few million people have a controlling interest in a bunch of major oil companies .. all you do then is put your proxies together .. and make the company go in he direction you want it to go... And if you can't do that how do you think you are going to stop what you think is the cause of global worming
It is in your hands..as long as you are not just thinking about the dollar.
But then maybe that is an inconvenient truth!:rolleyes:
Excellent Idea!

These are all multinationals with seperate names and shares for most countries that they are active in. In the USA on the NSYE:

Royal Dutch Shell
RDS-A 1.84 Billion Shares

Exxon Mobil Corp
XOM 5.83 Billion Shares

Chevron
CVX 2.18 Billion Shares

BP PLC
BP 3.44 Billion Shares

The problem is, the oil companies or even the energy companies are not the problem.

WE ARE THE PROBLEM
What kind of car do you drive? Trick question, if you drive a car, you are the problem.
Do you live indoors? Trick question, if you live inside, you are the problem.
Do you work? Trick question, it doesn't matter, it takes energy to put money in your pocket. You are the problem.

This is why the Americans went to war in Iraq.
We need energy to fuel our lifestyles. If we get it at a cheap price, we can continue to drive and live inside for a few more years. Once it becomes too expensive - or - runs out. Our civilization is done.
 

citylover

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maxx50 said:
But I will make a comment on the ass end here! .
i a sure there are a few million .. earth mothers out there that can afford a few stocks each .. well be for they know it that few million people have a controlling interest in a bunch of major oil companies ..
Spoken as a true ass end dragging a red herring across the trail

OR who evidently has no clue about the management of companies or what it takes to influence them thru stock ownerships. Huge institutional investors like the brokerage houses, banks, investment firms, etc., invest hundreds of millions of dollars in a single company to own stock in the single digits of the overall percentage.

Get a clue about finances, check even the rudimentary free sites like Yahoo Finance & insider or investor owners for percentages.


But yàll are very funny when you try to show intelligence or wit on the issue. Try but fail, i might add
 

maxx50

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You missed the point.

I am very well aware of the rudimentaries of stocks .. and controlling interest in companies. You talk about institutional investment .. mutual funds .. banks .. where do you think a large portion of the money comes from .. John Q public.. From there saving , pention plans .. medical plan ... RSP's ... and a other investments , and yet those investors have no control over what happens in the companies they are invested in..
We could do it if there was a n investment fund just set up to do that .. You just start with one company at a time ..
Of course the other point of my statement .. was exactly the stupid ass attitude i got from you .. You can't get 10 people to agree to stand together for the better good .. let alone a million.. not when money is involved.

Here are some rudimentary figures to go with the summation..

Petro-can.. worth 22.8 billion
out standing stocks ....497.. million
stock price..around $45 a share

So a 1000 people with $45,000 each ... could buy.. I million shares... That is 1/500
100,000 people with $45,00 each ....could buy..100 million shares... That is1/5 or 20%

You do not need to own 51% TO INFLUANCE A company policy
Sure this may be a little to simplistic .. and thinking that there are a 100,000 people out there with $45,000 just laying around .. to exercise there environmental concerns is even being very naive.. but then a gain environmentalist usually are also.
 
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Randy Whorewald

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Maxx, you'll need to simplify it a bit more in order for c-lover to comprehend.

By the way I got a kick ot of this story:

HOUSE HEARING ON 'WARMING OF THE PLANET' CANCELED AFTER ICE STORM
HEARING NOTICE

Tue Feb 13 2007 19:31:25 ET

The Subcommittee on Energy and Air Quality hearing scheduled for Wednesday, February 14, 2007, at 10:00 a.m. in room 2123 Rayburn House Office Building has been postponed due to inclement weather. The hearing is entitled “Climate Change: Are Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Human Activities Contributing to a Warming of the Planet?”

The hearing will be rescheduled to a date and time to be announced later.

DC WEATHER REPORT:

Wednesday: Freezing rain in the morning. Total ice accumulation between one half to three quarters of an inch. Brisk with highs in the mid 30s. North winds 10 to 15 mph...increasing to northwest 20 to 25 mph in the afternoon. Chance of precipitation near 100 percent.

Wednesday Night: Partly cloudy. Lows around 18. Northwest winds around 20 mph.

The link:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash8.htm
 

nube

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Oct 17, 2006
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I also get a charge out of the ongoing promotations of ski hills. How much green house gas is generated for example to construct roads to winter playgrounds. The number might just surprise you.

Now to get to the hills, you do need a 4x4 - more greenhouse gas.

Now how about that NDP leader Carol James, saying she needs an SUV because she like every other BCer wants to camp and get in the out back. (Yet she drives to and from work in that SUV:)

It seems that our recreational activities generate a lot of greenhouse gases BUT are we going to cut that back??? I have horses and I trailer to the places to ride. FortunatelyI have a company vehicle too, so my horse truck is not used day to day - but most people don't have that luxury.

I wonder how many on this list are willing to cut back vehicle usage to just necessities!!! That means no skiing, camping, country drives, crusing for sw's, driving to SP's, or hunting trips, snowmobiling etc etc etc.

How about those winter getaways to mexico - we don't need those planes up there burning fossal fuels do we??? Ohhh don't forget the cruise ships that travel up our coast hey they get about 3 feet to the gallon ya know.

Maybe we should only allow BC ferries to carry people not cars (smaller boats). And only carry those travelling to work ---wait a minute maybe those people should move closer to work and we won't need ferries.

If we only eat farm fish, we don't need fishing fleets creating greenhouse gases.

And how about....well..... I thing you get the point

Now what do we do with ALL those people who lose there jobs????


So I would just to ALL of you that this subject is a little more complicated then most of us have contemplated. The solutions are complex and we need to view this 'problem' in a large scale and work on it together. The time spent debating whether there is a problem or not is just time wasted and that seems to be what is happening world wide.

Whether or not the current level of global warming is man made is REALLY not the issue. The issue is that unless we do continue to look for cleaner energy, the will be a problem some day. I think that we are a lot cleaner today then we were, and as long as we continue the earth will survive.

What PISSES me off is the mass hysteria, that the politicians, the scientists and enviromental groups seem to promote. The sky is falling mentality - is pretty tiring after a while.

But again, that is what it takes to move most people off their collective asses to do something. :D
 

luckydog71

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Have a closer look at the wing nuts from Hollywood.. Susan Sarandon, and others....

They live in 10,000 plus square foot homes. How much energy does it take to heat and cool those monster homes. Let's start by place a huge tax on any home that exceeds 2000 sq ft.

The earth is warming and humans may even be contributing. If we are then it is the loud mouth liberals that are the biggest contributors. We bitch about the gas companies, but it is the Hollywood elite that buy the fuel to gas up their Lear jets.
 

rickoshadows

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LD has hit on something that would be an excellent start for many things. Power and water, just to name two items are cheaper when you buy large amounts. A large user gets a discount becasue of the amount they purchase. If the goverment required utilities to reverse this practice. ie one rate for the amount of power up to the amount used by an average house, and then a higher rate for power used in excess of that amount. This could even be applied at the gas pump, first 50 litres for one price and then the rest would be more. A drive could choose the inconvenience of filing up more often or drive a more efficient vehicle.
 
Ricko... I can see you have put a LOT of thought into this...??

rickoshadows said:
LD has hit on something that would be an excellent start for many things. Power and water, just to name two items are cheaper when you buy large amounts. A large user gets a discount becasue of the amount they purchase. If the goverment required utilities to reverse this practice. ie one rate for the amount of power up to the amount used by an average house, and then a higher rate for power used in excess of that amount. This could even be applied at the gas pump, first 50 litres for one price and then the rest would be more. A drive could choose the inconvenience of filing up more often or drive a more efficient vehicle.

Let's dissect shall we?

Those who only use a small amount will only pay a small amount!

GOOD Idea???

In the infamous words of Borat; "not so much"

How do we get our goods from the manufactures???
How do we get our packages delivered??
How do we travel to Cancun or Calgary??

How much do we already complain about the high cost of items we need for our daily life????????

As a consumer, Ricko should have you pretty worried bout now!
 

sdw

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Mr.O said:

Let's dissect shall we?

Those who only use a small amount will only pay a small amount!

GOOD Idea???

In the infamous words of Borat; "not so much"

How do we get our goods from the manufactures???
How do we get our packages delivered??
How do we travel to Cancun or Calgary??

How much do we already complain about the high cost of items we need for our daily life????????

As a consumer, Ricko should have you pretty worried bout now!
Two Words
Railway
Ship

Railways are highly efficient transportation systems. Much more efficient than the number of Trucks to carry the same load. Much more efficient (about 1600 times) than a Jet Aircraft and actually quicker over the short haul that some 80% of cargo is sent.

Ships use 100,000 times less fuel for the same distance and weight of cargo than a Jet Aircraft.
 

rickoshadows

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Mr.O said:

How do we get our goods from the manufactures???
How do we get our packages delivered??
Gee, I guess goods manufactured locally would then be a better bargain than something made a long way away. Have you ever heard of the 100 mile diet?

Seriously, this would do more to encourage efficiency in usage of energy than to limit. As has been mentioned trains and ships use far less energy than trucks and planes. Trucks, especially would be prohibitively expensive if the roads they travelled on weren't subsidized by the taxpayer. If you factor in initial construction, maintenance and emergency services, it works out to an incredible amount per vehicle per year, no wonder we pay so much in tax.

We often bitch that the goverment has been sucking the gas tax into general revenue instead of using it on roads as was originally intended. If they were to do so, but not use any other funding, most of us would complain as there would be even less spent on roads.
 
I really hate to be a bitch, but...

sdw said:
Two Words
Railway
Ship

Railways are highly efficient transportation systems. Much more efficient than the number of Trucks to carry the same load. Much more efficient (about 1600 times) than a Jet Aircraft and actually quicker over the short haul that some 80% of cargo is sent.

Ships use 100,000 times less fuel for the same distance and weight of cargo than a Jet Aircraft.

... those stats you put up are probably the most ridiculous thing I have seen you post to date.

IF you can provide some verifiable studies, statistical references or Data to back-up your statements I will NEVER argue with you again.

To recap:

Trains MUCH more efficient than trucks - check

Trains 1600 times more efficient than jets - check

Ships 100,000 times less fuel than a jet for same cargo & distance - check

Bicycles "1 million" times faster to the moon than rockets - check
 
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Randy Whorewald

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Randy Whorewald

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I also wonder how much CO2 is generated from humans and other animals simply breathing. There's lots of breathing going on 24/7 which causes lots of CO2 emissions. I have no idea if this contributes to any greenhouse effect, but if CO2 is the problem, than maybe we shouldn't breathe as much as we do.
 

Big Trapper

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rickoshadows said:
We often bitch that the goverment has been sucking the gas tax into general revenue instead of using it on roads as was originally intended. If they were to do so, but not use any other funding, most of us would complain as there would be even less spent on roads.
Actually Rick, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. In the good ole US of A, that is exactly the case - the government is required by law to spend the gas tax on highways maintenance and capital spending relating to highways. Did you ever wonder why the mofo's have such NICE roads? Ever wonder why there is not a single highway in Canada (outside of Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City) that is built to anything resembling US Interstate standards?
 

threepeat

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Randy Whorewald said:
Global warming is making the polar icecaps melts so fast that bears are getting stranded!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=433170&in_page_id=1770

Whoever believes that is an idiot. I though everyone knew that polar bears could swim. Second did the temp all of a sudden jump to 100 in order to cause the ice to melt that fast.
I believe it. If you watched the the Gore movie, they covered both topics. Polar bears can and do swim, but like all living creatures they have limits to their endurance. No polar ice caps = no place to stop and rest. This causes the bears to get tired and drown.

Also covered in the movie was the rate at which the ice melts. Ice reflects sunlight, water absorbs it. Therefore once a large ice mass starts to melt, it can melt to nothing relatively quickly.
 

sdw

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Mr.O said:
... those stats you put up are probably the most ridiculous thing I have seen you post to date.

IF you can provide some verifiable studies, statistical references or Data to back-up your statements I will NEVER argue with you again.

To recap:

Trains MUCH more efficient than trucks - check

Trains 1600 times more efficient than jets - check

Ships 100,000 times less fuel than a jet for same cargo & distance - check

Bicycles "1 million" times faster to the moon than rockets - check
Where did I talk about bicycles?
As to the rest:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/consump.html
http://www.ncseonline.org/NLE/CRSreports/energy/eng-11.cfm
http://www.airlines.org/NR/rdonlyre...EEE790C47B/0/HeimlichJetFuelWritten060215.pdf
http://www.airlines.org/NR/rdonlyre...8CF9-35A0216476CC/0/fuelchallenges_iar206.pdf
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
http://climate.dot.gov/docs/atvm_final.pdf
 
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