An Inconvenient Truth

[gravitas]

you don't know the answer any more than anyone else about global warming or our planet

Likewise! I'm not debating that at a micro level the temperature of the planet is rising. What I do contest is the "OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING" attitude that is nothing more then fear mongering. Forty years ago the prevailing attitude among the best scientific minds at the time was that earth was cooling too rapidly and we needed to intervene.

So quit pretending, the fact is you DON'T KNOW.

You could be wrong or Al Gore could be wrong.

LIKEWISE and likewise

Protecting the environment (from ourselves) is not a question about whether global warming is happening or not.

Have either of you ever stepped out of your house and actually gone skiing or hiking and enjoyed this incredible country we live in???

Its exactly about how protecting the environment has morphed into global warming. Being at the top of the food chain means we have an obligation to be good stewards of earth and insure that our footprint is as small as possible. The problem is that because of a VERY tiny data set the anti-oil, anti-corporate movement has completely subverted the real issues into a two word catch phrase. Worry about what's happening to our renewable resources, our water ways or wet lands but don't fall into the trap of focusing all efforts on one theory. Look at the problem of acid rain 25 years ago and what happened when the source of pollution was corrected at a micro level. The worst polluters (mainly eastern Europe) reduced the amount of sulfur and nitrogen dioxide that was being released through their power and manufacturing processes and within decades the previously dead forests, lakes and rivers started to heal.

Have either of you ever stepped out of your house and actually gone skiing or hiking and enjoyed this incredible country we live in???

Does your life suck so much that you really don't care if there is a planet for you to live on or not, or is it let the other smuck worry about it???

Don't be an idiot. Of course I love earth, of course I love Canada, of course I love being outside in a pristine but thats not the issue. When possible I recycle, purchase environmentally friendly products, use less energy by switching to green products, make sure my vehicles are properly maintained. Those are all tangible activities that all of us can work on that would have a marked impact on the amount of pollution we produce but frankly would do little to satisfy bullshit and meaningless agreements like Kyoto.

cleaner air and water

Thank you for falling into the trap set by the environmental movement. Clean air and water are about reducing pollution and particulate and nothing about global warming.

I would hate to have either of you running our country or a company, because quite frankly neither one of you has a clue about risk management.

Now you're being an idiot. My opinion is ALL about risk management. People who are so caught up with the likes of Gore have lost all objectivity to adress other legitimate environmental concerns. Deep sea drag netting, improper disposal of PCP's, radioactive waste, lab and research chemicals or medical waste have a far more immediate impact on the quality of life and health then something like the myth of the global warming movement.

Sorry if I'm being too hard on you guys, but arrogance and ignorance are not something to be proud of.

Have you opinion, voice it loud and proud....I'm fine with that. At least you're prepared to offer something to the discussion, which is far better then some dildo like timec/OTBn who are most comfortable just running off at the mouth and not actually having an opinion of their own.

 

[threepeat]

and there in lies the rub....30 years* of data in terms of the earth means exactly jack shit


*which roughly equates to 0.0000000666666666666667% of its age, or in terms of something closer to home would mean the average person using the last 2.5 minutes of their life to measure their health for the previous 72 years

Yes, but that 30 years exactly coincides with the spike in CO2 gases, so that would be like using the last 2.5 minutes of your life to measure your health if you spent that 2.5 breathing in the exhaust from your car.

 

[HankQuinlan]

The problem is that because of a VERY tiny data set the anti-oil, anti-corporate movement has completely subverted the real issues into a two word catch phrase.

Yep, it's all a conspiracy by them leftists who hate those rich folk. Isn't it a little more true to human nature to Follow The Money? If there is effort spent to pooh pooh the concept, wouldn't it be by those who find the science inconvenient? Hence the title of the film?

As the film points out, the "very tiny data set" consists of all real scientists who spend their careers studying the subject and actually publishing their research in peer-reviewed journals -- not in the National Post.

About that huge conspiracy of Christmas-hating grinches to destroy our holiday --- that is definitely worth worrying about.

Oh -- and by the way, you are arguing about the merits of a film you obviously haven't watched...might be better to rent it, and then rant.

 

[therealrex]

Maybe something to do with the extreme weather the Pacific has been getting this season -- droughts/fires in Australia, worst monsoon season ever in China, Phillippines,..... Monsoons are hurricanes, just a different name.

I think you're confusing Monsoons with Typhoons

 

[Randy Whorewald]

One thing that has always puzzled me...

So what happened? Why did the ice age end? Why did the glaciers melt and retreat? What caused global warming hundreds of thousands of years ago, long before humans were destroying the planet?

And maybe, if in fact there is a trend for global warming (although the winter in Edmonton this year does not support that), perhaps it is for the same reason that it has always happened thru history. Perhaps we are not as significant as some would have us believe?

Walter

Climates have been changing on this planet for billions of years. With or without us they will continue to do so.
You have to hand it to Al Gore though he's pretty damn good with Powerpoint presentations

 

[HankQuinlan]

I think you're confusing Monsoons with Typhoons

correct you are

 

[BLT]

One thing that has always puzzled me...

The world climate has been constantly changing throughout history, going back millions of years. Warm oceans over the arctic. Glaciers down into the mid US.

So what happened? Why did the ice age end? Why did the glaciers melt and retreat? What caused global warming hundreds of thousands of years ago, long before humans were destroying the planet?

And maybe, if in fact there is a trend for global warming (although the winter in Edmonton this year does not support that), perhaps it is for the same reason that it has always happened thru history. Perhaps we are not as significant as some would have us believe?

Walter

i agree to a certain extent.
i think it is very, very probable that human actions affect the climate, however it is also possible that a large part of this climate change (and the climate is changing) is simply happening because of other reasons - natural reasons.
not to say that stepping of the gas is a bad thing.

and one should keep in mind that the winters in edmonton (or medicine hat... or spokane... or anywhere else) don't provide sufficient data to jump to any conclusions - actually it could be possible that canada actually gets colder due to global warming, just as europe.

i just wonder why everyone is so shocked by this movie - climate change is known in europe for... as long as i can think of. seriously, i can even remember hearing of it as a kid, watching science channel - well, well over 15 years ago.

 

[Randy Whorewald]

There's also another theory which attributes the current global warming to the fact that its known that the sun is getting hotter.

more here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/ixnewstop.html

http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/092897/study.htm

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002242.html

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980218c.html

 

[gravitas]

how many of you have cars? raise your hands

how many of you have ridden on a plane, have electricity, shop at a grocery story with refrigeration, etc. etc.

(s)he who is without an environmental footprint throw the first emissions credit

 

[eurhythmia]

Knuckle draggers et al

Some of you guys are kind of scary. Well, permit me to slip on a fresh pair of panties and, at my peril, I know, suggest a really sobering book. It's titled Collapse by Jared Diamond. It's a pretty darn plausible hypothesis of how societies collapse - namely, environmental/population stress. He concludes with the comforting thought that being rich doesn't guarantee survival, only the privilege of being the last to go.

 

[excuckold]

Thanks for the reminder that global warming is a total myth, gravitas. (snip)

What do you expect, considering his reactionary "holiday" rant? You can't reason with dittoheads and fundies, so might as well just let them talk; it's the easiest way to expose their ignorance and xenophobia.

 

[gravitas]

Knuckle draggers.....Some of you guys are kind of scary

Because we don't agree with you that makes us scary knuckle draggers?

It's titled Collapse by Jared Diamond

Interesting theories and I don't doubt that there are some lessons to be learned but I fail to see how you make a salient connection between the Rapanui and someone living in Toronto, LA, London, etc. The societies he describes were isolated even by their contemporary standards let alone the interdependence of our modern world. You're seriously missing my point re. global warming. I'm not disputing that the temperature is rising relative to recent history or that our current love affair with power and consumption is changing the landscape. What I am asserting is that the popular belief that by we can have a demonstrable impact on those changes by simply taking a frontal attack against oil production or use. Its just not that easy.

What do you expect, considering his reactionary "holiday" rant? You can't reason with dittoheads and fundies, so might as well just let them talk; it's the easiest way to expose their ignorance and xenophobia.

Have you ever read any of my posts? "Dittohead" and "fundie"....for fuck sakes get your political cliche's straight. I'm a libertarian and about as far away as you could get from a fundamental christian. My "holiday rant" as you put it, and I assume you're referring to my signature is all about personal choice and not falling victim to religious direction.

 

[stryker]

What do you expect, considering his reactionary "holiday" rant? You can't reason with dittoheads and fundies, so might as well just let them talk; it's the easiest way to expose their ignorance and xenophobia.

And just where the Fuck did you come from with your holy'r than thow rant?

By the way,,It's Merry Christmas,not Happy "Fucking "holidays!!!

 

[lovinithard]

Amazing how much nonsense can be spouted by people without a clue.

Gravitas and his ilk have been bamboozled by the Denial Machine (the same group that so effectively delayed for decades the truth about smoking) that has so effectively subverted the media in North America.

The global warming "debate" is not happening among scientists or with the majority of people on the planet, it's really only happening here in North America. It's more proof that the our corporate media has been bought, sold and delivered - with a pretty bow on top - into the pockets of the elite.

Well except for good ol' CBC.

For CBC Television's Fifth Estate program on the "Denial Machine" that aired last month:

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/denialmachine/index.html

 

[gravitas]

CBC Television's

there's a bastion journalistic integrity and one that has a history of being unbiased with their reporting on global warming.....you wouldn't mind if I start quoting from Alberta Oil Magazine would you?

 

[Randy Whorewald]

You could be wrong or Al Gore could be wrong.

Please read my post above I'm the only one that's right!!

 

[Tralalalalalala]

haha I started reading this thread while watching Mad Tv (lame, I know, but I'm home for xmas so there is absolutely nothing to do.) when the frosty the snowman thing came on....Frosty was melting so Al Gore explained to the children that it was because of global warming. It was suprisingly awesome.

 

[excuckold]

And just where the Fuck did you come from with your holy'r than thow rant?

By the way,,It's Merry Christmas,not Happy "Fucking "holidays!!!

.........

touche.

 

[TheRater]

As the film points out, the "very tiny data set" consists of all real scientists who spend their careers studying the subject and actually publishing their research in peer-reviewed journals -- not in the National Post.

Like David Suzuki!

Excuse me, I just threw up in my mouth a lot because of idiocy. Most, but I will admit not all, of these 'climate' scientists are people who think that because they have BSc. MSc. or PhD. after their names that whatever they think automatically becomes scientific. Before you fly right off the deep end, how about YOU go read some of those 'peer reviewed' journals and see a) just how many scientists who ARE climatologists disagree with the conclusions and b) have you ever actually looked at the data, 80% of these 'interpretations' are based off of one study that was proven to have incorrect methods, practices and hell, just plain wrong math over 20 years ago.

Going back to my very first sentence, look at just how many of these 'leading environmentalists' travel by the absolute worst method possible, private jet. If they REALLY believe what they are preaching, shouldn't they be the very first ones to give up their Lears, Grummans and GulfStreams?

- TR

 

[TheRater]

... the comforting thought that being rich doesn't guarantee survival, only the privilege of being the last to go.

I can accept that.

- TR