An apology

[visiting]

Where did you get this from?

Here..

....... I said that guys who frequent MP's where the girls are forced into prostitution commit rape.

Of course not knowingly. But that doesn't make it any better for the girls.

Ok your right I went a little strong when I said all, , but you tell me how many of these, are your customs? 0, 10% 20% or more? Still makes them a rapists in your terms.. I just figure you would not want to see them, I mean the rapists.

 

[JustAGuy]

And if women actually gave a shit about those girls, they'd give it up at home so their guys weren't forced into a position where they're left no choice but to hit up an MP.

You're turning this around and blaming women for the situation now? Give me a break!

For starters, there are guys who could get laid every night and twice on Sunday by their wife/SO and they would still be out looking for more. Are they being "left no choice" but to go an MP? Or are they just horndogs who figure it's their biological imperative to fuck every female they can before they die?

And even the guys who aren't getting any at home can make a choice to avoid the micros that exploit/enslave women and go to licenced establishments or see indies. Choosing to go to an unlicenced micro makes a man complicit in the exploitation and no amount of rationalization will change that fact.

 

[wilde]

I was reading this thread yesterday and was kind of expecting it to turn into what it is now.

Have to agree with Anita that if any person knowingly went to any establishment (doesn't matter whether it is a Micro, MP, AMP or the streets) and got services from a person who was coerced into the trade as being the equivalent of rape. The key being knowingly.

But there is also a flip side and I am speaking from personal experience here. There are SPs who entered the trade knowingly and willingly. But if they are busted, the story that they tell is one where they were coerced into the trade. Why? Because it is very convincing and will generate a lot of sympathy. And best of all, you turn yourself from being the accused to the victim in no time. It is a very convenient excuse for an SP to use.

The trick, I suppose, is to be able to spot the real victims.

 

[visiting]

Let's put it this way: If I knew that the guy is frequenting asian micros and doesn't give a damn if the women there are there willingly or not, yes, I would gladly do without his business!

You won't believe how many nice guys are out there who are just as bothered by the exploitation of girls as I am.
They tell me so, I don't bring up the subject!

Anita, there are more nice guys then rapists, I am sure of that. But not having gone to these places, I have no clue what or how things happen in there, that is why I asked. To me it seems that you have the same clientele, maybe yours is a little more up-scale, or you have services they don't offer... So I could not understand you calling your customer rapists.

But I still have trouble believing that guys go to places where they KNOW girls are being held against their will, but that's me.

 

[visiting]

Visiting, believe me, some guys can't resist a good lay cheap and will ignore the obvious signs in order to have fun. I didn't say everybody would, but I have yet to read a review like "I was there but left because it looked like the girls weren't there voluntarily". I have read a few saying "I was there it looked like she wasn't into it, but I had sex with her anyway."

But you keep defending the guys.... how about starting defending the exploited women without looking for excuses?

Anita I am not defending anyone, all I am saying is that not all Men who see MP's are rapists. I actually think Rapists do not want to pay, rather get it for free...

Are you one of these women that needs help? help us men out, how can we tell, since your in the biz, let us know, and what we can do about it... If a guy talks to the woman, and she seems pretty happy, she could still be in danger, as these human smugglers, threaten the entire safety of families, not just one person...

 

[JustAGuy]

I actually think Rapists do not want to pay, rather get it for free...

Rape has much less to do with sex than it does with anger towards/violence against women. That's probably somewhat less the case nowadays since the introduction of "rape date" drugs provided total losers with a means of having sex with women who wouldn't give them the time of day otherwise. Still the majority of rape cases are not about "getting it".

 

[stryker]

What you did was you rented a person from her/his owner for a few hours.
Looks like slavery for me.

We all have a very good understanding as to what goes on Anita,I feel your talking about your personal beliefs and not fact.
Show us the facts,,untill then,get off your soap box

 

[Big Trapper]

Rape has much less to do with sex than it does with anger towards/violence against women.

Close, but not quite. Rape has much less to do with sex than it does with empowerment of the perpetrator.

POWER...

Women are not the only victims of rape - in the all male population of a prison, rape is the ultimate statement of power.

 

[wilde]

I think if I was a guy I would look for certain signs.
E.g. the girl speaks very little English, she is shy and reluctant,and the mamasan/papasan seems to oder her around too much.
If she is not happy, doesn' laugh, smile. Careful here, Asians tend to smile a lot. Doesn't mean they are happy with the situation.

You have sandwiched a lot of mixed messages there. And all have them could have an alternate explanation.

And that part about smiling just completely lost me. So if an SP is in the business only because of $$ (a big percentage of the SP population I expect despite what the SPs keep telling us), she is not going to like her job too much. Naturally she is not going to be happy and probably will only smile when she has to. So now you are calling her customers rapists. Don't confuse hating what you do for a living as opposed to somebody forcing you to do something.

Finally the part about Asian smiling a lot is just IMHO a useless general comment which can apply to just about anyone. I am Asian and I don't smile a lot except for that fake smile you put on during office hours.

.

 

[SweetDoc]

Playing the Devils Advocate,

What about the men you exploit Anita? It is well known that some of these men have families and cannot afford to poon yet they cannot help themselves from seeing SP's. They are often deeply in debt, unable to provide proper clothing for their kids, possibly not even able to provide them with decent meals yet you have no issues taking more money from them as it meets your needs. You don't query people you see to determine their financial situation prior to taking their money do you?

Too many people play the victim these days and I personally find it annoying.

Great post, it provides an interesting perspective. There are indeed victims on either side. However, each individual person needs to take responsibility for their actions. No one blames the SPs for the consequesnces of a client's urges/habbits/cravings, and similarly no one should blame a client for an SP's problems. Yes, some women are exploited and it's terrible, but don't call out a client, call out their pimp or the person who is keeping them under the conditions. Just curious, why are these women from other countries coming here under these conditions? Isnt there a proper way of doing it? What pre-existing problems have these women created in their own lives that they need to search for a way to get into this country under such coinditions? If a woman doesn't want to be used like this, why agree to the situation? I'm not about to shed my responsibilites or blame my problems on others, why should they? I dont want to sound like a man incapable of being sensitive to situations, but like the quoted poster said, too many people play the victim these days and I prefer to be skeptical.

Also concerning this post by Stryker,"We all have a very good understanding as to what goes on Anita,I feel your talking about your personal beliefs and not fact.
Show us the facts,,untill then,get off your soap box". I couldn't agree more. Part of thinking critcally, is interpreting information and being able to assess if it's opinion or fact. If it's opinion, be very skeptical, because someone may be trying to appeal to your emotions in an attempt to coerce you into following their beliefs, which may have absolutly nothing to do with fact. And yes Anita, if what you are saying is factual and it's important to you, seek it out, find some concrete facts, and do something about it instead of shouting victim and opinions. If people see the true facts, and see you doing something about it, chances are they will follow and help you, otherwise like me, they will probably shrug it off.

 

[JustAGuy]

Close, but not quite. Rape has much less to do with sex than it does with empowerment of the perpetrator.

POWER...

Women are not the only victims of rape - in the all male population of a prison, rape is the ultimate statement of power.

You're absolutely correct, Big Trapper. Thanks for saying what I was trying (and not succeeding) to say.

 

[Thais]

It appears most women stay away from this thread... Oh, well.

There is very little reliable statistics on trafficking. This article, even though it talks about sex trade in Thailand, address the universal challenges of finding data - despite a huge number of human rights organizations that feed on it.
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=6889
I cannot find links right now but a friend of mine, a decriminalization activist in the US, showed me some papers claiming that often, we deal not with women coerced into prostitution completely against their will - but women who expected to work under different, much better conditions.
Either way, even if a woman from an impoverished country knew she was agreeing to sex trade - if she is forced to see more people, do acts she hates and gets far less money for it than she expected, it's still pretty bad.

As Anita said (I think), you are more likely to find women like this in micros/Asian MPs than anywhere else. In other words, the cheapest places. And even if a woman is there voluntarily, she is still most likely supporting her extended family back home on that money.

Let me give you an example from a different area. I like organic products. I like the principle behind them. I am not a vegetarian and am not planning on becoming one - but I believe in treating animals well. As a student, I could not afford organic or free-range products. But after graduation, I made space in my budget for them - even though I had other uses for that money. I liked their principles so I chose to support them at a personal cost, sacrificing going out or buying nicer things.

Yet some of the men out there do not make a similar choice. They want to haggle over $20 - which could buy them a couple of beers - or support a family for several days in Asia.

I have to make a disclaimer here! I believe this argument mostly applies to micros/ethnic MPs, i.e. places where the women are most likely to be immigrants from a third world country with a lot of family left back home. If you are visiting a Canadian lady, she is facing same prices as you are, so $20 probably has an equal value to both of you. In other words, I am not against seeking a good deal - only when the deal comes at a significantly higher cost to one party than the other.

Yes, you cannot tell whether the woman is there by choice, or under what conditions she made that choice. However, you can make her life significantly better at a comparatively lower cost to you. Yet many choose not to. I don't care whether it's labelled rape, exploitation, or smart pooning. It's still a choice I view as unethical.

 

[Creole Lady Marmalade]

They are probably better off in Canada then in some other country like India where they have absolutely no rights at all.

Having them trafficked here illegally doesn't allow the smuggled to gain many rights because they are in Canada. Most unlicensed MPs and their employees are under the radar for a reason. And as you mentioned many are often deported.

I fully agree with Anita's assertion. It should be adamantly clear in any sane mind what she is saying here. And not knowing whether a lady is working under these conditions does not relieve one from blame. There are many ways of finding out and abundant clues about an establishment's participation in this crime against women. Asking Anita how she knows this is completely irrelevant. Her statement is perfectly clear. And you are bang on QM, this activity is done under the cloak of our increasingly popular micros. Why else would they be operating without a license, in contravention with zoning bylaws, and ready to move under the cover of darkness? When they are busted, and the ladies are sent back as illegals, I see nothing but moans and cries on this board. Even the concealment of micro phone numbers is playing right along with the cover-up.

This is probably the best post out of the whole thread. C'mon you people who visit unlicensed MPs, who are you kidding? They are unlicensed for a reason. What could be worse than going and very likely, or an otherwise high possibility, of getting busted in a place like that with your pants down drilling a girl speaking very little or no English. I don't think the cops are gonna take your explanation "I didn't know" very seriously. Don't get me wrong, I like a bargain too but all that potential drama just to save a few bucks. Yikes

 

[Creole Lady Marmalade]

Anita

Anita,
for the most part I agree with you and please do not take this as my defending you, because I'm not exactly. A lot of what you said in later posts to this thread fell off the scale of making any sense at all and it's because you are passionate about the subject, that part I understand. But take it from a woman and a Service Provider, be very mindful of the words you choose for they can carry a heavy consequence and you can end up offending someone, even someone close to you.

And please don't send me a PM reprimanding me for being an SP and not sticking up for you.