The Porn Dude

Am I missing something?

Mar 10, 2011
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When a soldier is killed in the line of duty, his family eventually gets a flag and a note conveying sympathy and respect from the United States government.

When a black pro basketball player announces he is gay, he immeadiately gets a personal phone call from the president congratulating him for his courage.

Am I missing something?
 

badbadboy

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2006
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Hero worship of athletes and entertainers is out of control and people's priorities are all crazy IMHO.

This SEAL is a hero considering what he did for his fellow SEALS. Whether or not you believe we should all be in Afghanistan is not the debate but Canada, Australia, UK, and USA to name a few countries have all stepped up to fix this lingering problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Murphy
 
Jun 8, 2012
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It did take courage for the athlete to come out and it will help others who are in the same situation. So for that I don't have a problem with it and am I'm all for it. If it was that easy, the many gay players before him would have done it.

Your example does show how off we are but lets face it, Obama would be on the phone all day, phoning families of those who died and at the end of the day, they knew it was possible when they enlisted. It sure doesn't make it right but just the way it is. Also lets be honest, it's also politics and we all know how that goes.
Could not agree more. It is def something to congratulate a man about IMHO. He has a lot more at stake than an average person coming out of the closet.
What the soldiers family is getting is tradition and sooner or later when something like this becomes more socially acceptable it will become a tradition as well. These are two completely different things and TOTALLY different type of courage- it would be a bit hard to compare.
 

barny-stinson

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Mar 10, 2013
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You have to love the USA. A place where you can die for your country and serve in the military after the age of 18, but can't legally drink a pint until you're 21. Since when have Americans ever made sense?
 

sevenofnine

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Nov 21, 2008
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A dead soldier gets a lot of respect,
I remember watching a movie about it, how the body gets escorted and treated with such care all the way back to the family where ever that maybe. And is generally honored by civi's where it goes if they know the situation.
I have no idea what the presidents involvement is, but its untrue that a dead soldier is not treated respectfully.

I think a live soldier with medical issue's gets treated like crap unfortunatly.

I'm not sure what the big deal is about sex or sexual oreintation now days. There are so many homosexual's out there frankly who cares any more. Not only that same sex marriages, I know of several.
I work with a guy who is now a women.

Seriously is being gay anything now days. Do you have to come out, does any one even bat an eyebrow about it now days.
Much ado about nothing,

I personally don't like Obama, he seems involved in a lot of so unimportant things, you think the leader of the most powerful country on the planet would have more important things to do.
 

badbadboy

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Nov 2, 2006
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The worshiping of athletes, entertainers, soldiers or religious leaders is all crazy but showing respect for people that demonstrate unusual courage is not.

There is physical courage and there is moral courage. Jason Collins displayed an enormous amount of moral courage to come out in the religious climate of the present day USA. Michael P Murphy displayed enormous physical courage which is in line with his country's cultural expectations of members of its special forces.

For an example of someone who defines both moral and physical courage, look no farther than John Weir Foote who faced far greater fire than Lieutenant Murphy for four times as much time, while unarmed, actually succeeded in saving lives through his actions and chose to remain on the battlefield of Dieppe and continue to help the wounded despite being given multiple opportunities to evacuate to safety. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Weir_Foote
Fact remains that whether an athlete, entertainer, famous Wealthy Persons aka Paris Hilton et al it really does not deserve any special treatment if they come out and announce they are gay. There was an NFL player years ago who came out and while it was news for a while; he didn't get a high five from the President or a parade. Sure it took a lot of guts to say it but i think todays society is much more accepting of being gay than say back in the 70's or 80's because of the AIDS epidemic.

I now know of three families who have lost their children in Afghanistan. Those children all around 21 years old are heroes because they signed up for something that they believed in and knew the ultimate price to be paid would be with their lives. Those are heroes in my mind.

The rest are blips on the news ticker and a year from now you will be scratching your head asking "who was that basketball player who came out?"

Like I said earlier, this hero worshiping of athletes and entertainers is nuts. Why would a person like Kim Kardashian even be a house hold name? What has she done personally? Has she campaigned to save starving children in Africa? Has she started a foundation to cure diseases? NO, just a rich famous person who has millions of people check in to see how fucked up her life is via twitter.
 

badbadboy

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Nov 2, 2006
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A dead soldier gets a lot of respect,
I remember watching a movie about it, how the body gets escorted and treated with such care all the way back to the family where ever that maybe. And is generally honored by civi's where it goes if they know the situation.
I have no idea what the presidents involvement is, but its untrue that a dead soldier is not treated respectfully.

I think a live soldier with medical issue's gets treated like crap unfortunatly.

I'm not sure what the big deal is about sex or sexual oreintation now days. There are so many homosexual's out there frankly who cares any more. Not only that same sex marriages, I know of several.
I work with a guy who is now a women.

Seriously is being gay anything now days. Do you have to come out, does any one even bat an eyebrow about it now days.
Much ado about nothing,

I personally don't like Obama, he seems involved in a lot of so unimportant things, you think the leader of the most powerful country on the planet would have more important things to do.
That movie is called "Taking Chance" with Kevin Bacon. Brilliant film and very touching how well treated the remains are handled from the battlefield back to Pvt Chance's home town.
 

badbadboy

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Nov 2, 2006
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The recent western cultural designation of all fallen soldiers (and in some circles, even all soldiers that serve) as heroes is both idiotic and cheapens the concept of heroism. Heroes a few and far between & many medals are given for political reasons (such as young Mr. Murphy's). To be heroic, one must have options, clearly understand what those options are and make choices that are extraordinary. To be caught in the blast of an IED is not heroic, it is unfortunate. To enlist in the military in a time of conflict is not heroic, it is doing one's duty.

Mr. Murphy made the what I consider the correct moral decision to not shoot a group of Afghans out of hand. Unfortunately, this fateful decision appears to have directly lead to the deaths of himself, most of his men, the soldiers that were dispatched to their relief and a large number of Afghans that attacked his unit. Once attacked, Mr. Murphy had few options. Without communication with the outside, he and his men were almost certain to die. Exposing himself to make contact was really the only viable hope for survival. It was brave to do so, but not heroic because there really was no other choice. Someone had to do it. And then misfortune thwarted the relief, sealing their fates. That one of his men survived was luck, not planning. And political necessity blew the incident up into public theater for the domestic audience.

In the case of young Mr. Collins, he had options. He could have done like so many other professional athletes & kept his mouth shut & took no risk & passed through life and his career without any repercussions. I don't know that I, as a straight person, see that as heroic & not just a brave act. But to those with a different sexual orientation, to those minority groups, heroic may be how he is seen because he chose to step forward when being silent would have been so easy.

And no, I'm not a knee-jerk, anti-military bleeding heart. The military service in my family is deep and long. My father served in the RCAF in the height of the Cold War. No one considered him a hero, especially himself. His grandfather served in the British army in the Great War & was gassed twice before receiving a medical discharge. Not considered a hero. My mother's father enlisted in the CEF in August 1914 and served continuously in the front lines in France and Belgium (over the top & all that) from spring 1915 (where his company nearly ceased to exist when caught in a series of explosions of tons of explosives planted in tunnels under their position) through to the end of of the war then served in the Occupation of the Rhineland until demobilized. He got through without a wound & only a couple of doses of the clap (according to his medical records, called "chronic gleet", and delayed his discharge from the military until it was cleared up in this time before modern antibiotics). Volunteered for active service again in 1939 but was turned down as too old. Not a hero. His father was a NWMP in what is now Saskatchewan in the mid 1800's. Retired, and then served in active service, including combat, in a militia unit in the Northwest Rebellion despite his advanced age. Hero? no.

True heroes are very few and very far between. And that is how it should be.
One of these young people was a medic who ran into an area with IED's to save others who had been blown up. He did it to save others without regard for his own safety. Heroism to save other Canadian Soldiers who had lost limbs etc.

Remember the discussion is about the basketball player who came out and got a personal phone call from Obama, right?

To me there is no comparison between these military heroes and an entertainer who came out. Really, who cares and it won't even be news in a few weeks.

Your argument may want to minimize my opinion of true heroes but that is my opinion and your wall of words is not changing my mind.
 

bcneil

I am from BC
Aug 24, 2007
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bbb...the problem is the general discussion is tainted. The two situations are totally different and in all honesty, a bad comparisson.
It reminds me of the old argument like......

"How can the government spend money on a new %##%^&, when there are Canadians living in poverty"
 
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