Alberta finally diversifying its economy

VinVan

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Feb 22, 2016
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Did they even have high schools when Ben Franklin was a teenager? I’m somewhat doubtful of that.
From Wikipedia:

(His father) wanted Ben to attend school with the clergy but only had enough money to send him to school for two years. He attended Boston Latin School but did not graduate; he continued his education through voracious reading. Although "his parents talked of the church as a career"[14] for Franklin, his schooling ended when he was ten.
 

masterblaster

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May 19, 2004
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From Wikipedia:

(His father) wanted Ben to attend school with the clergy but only had enough money to send him to school for two years. He attended Boston Latin School but did not graduate; he continued his education through voracious reading. Although "his parents talked of the church as a career"[14] for Franklin, his schooling ended when he was ten.
I don’t see any mention of high school there.
 

appleomac

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Aug 9, 2010
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Did they even have high schools when Ben Franklin was a teenager? I’m somewhat doubtful of that.
Yes and no. They had schools and something of a school system back in those days, in certain parts of colonial America - it's just not what most people now would consider a "school system." In any event, back in the 1700's, it's safe to say that even being a high school dropout was in itself somewhat of a privilege.
 

VinVan

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Feb 22, 2016
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I don’t see any mention of high school there.
Here's the math.

Grade 1 = 6 years old
Grade 2 = 7 years old
Grade 3 = 8 years old
Grade 4 = 9 years old
Grade 5 = 10 years old

So Mr. Franklin's formal education would have ended in the equivalent of grade 5 in today's educational paradigm. He may not have technically "dropped out of high school" (or captained the varsity football team and dated the captain of the cheerleading squad), but I'm hoping most Perbites will understand implicitly that times were different back then and that his leaving formal education was not an impediment to his success - as is the case with Ms Thunberg. The fact that she draws such ire from (mostly) middle aged males, is a testament to her effectiveness.
 

masterblaster

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May 19, 2004
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Here's the math.

Grade 1 = 6 years old
Grade 2 = 7 years old
Grade 3 = 8 years old
Grade 4 = 9 years old
Grade 5 = 10 years old

So Mr. Franklin's formal education would have ended in the equivalent of grade 5 in today's educational paradigm. He may not have technically "dropped out of high school" (or captained the varsity football team and dated the captain of the cheerleading squad), but I'm hoping most Perbites will understand implicitly that times were different back then and that his leaving formal education was not an impediment to his success - as is the case with Ms Thunberg. The fact that she draws such ire from (mostly) middle aged males, is a testament to her effectiveness.
You specifically included Ben Franklin in a list of high school dropouts which of course was not true in his case because there was no high school back then. Do all the math you want.
 

overdone

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Apr 26, 2007
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Here's shortlist of high school dropouts:

Albert Einstein
the smartest guy on your list, didn't drop out of school

he was trying to quit without hurting his chance to get into university, his teacher expelled him first, either way

then

Einstein left the Luitpold Gymnasium and entered the Aargau Cantonal School, where he finished high school — despite continuing trouble with French — and was then automatically admitted in 1896 to the Zurich Polytechnic, from where he graduated.



and the problem with Greta, just like all the other Eco Zealots

is they don't have any solutions

all they keep saying is you need to completely stop using oil/gas/carbon

which is asinine, impossible for a population of 7+billion

if it was possible, it would have happened already

just look at what's happening now, a world wide recession

it's either that or kill 5 billion

those are the workable options for massive emission reductions
 

zippy45

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Apr 7, 2014
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the smartest guy on your list, didn't drop out of school

he was trying to quit without hurting his chance to get into university, his teacher expelled him first, either way

then

Einstein left the Luitpold Gymnasium and entered the Aargau Cantonal School, where he finished high school — despite continuing trouble with French — and was then automatically admitted in 1896 to the Zurich Polytechnic, from where he graduated.



and the problem with Greta, just like all the other Eco Zealots

is they don't have any solutions

all they keep saying is you need to completely stop using oil/gas/carbon

which is asinine, impossible for a population of 7+billion

if it was possible, it would have happened already

just look at what's happening now, a world wide recession

it's either that or kill 5 billion

those are the workable options for massive emission reductions
so what is your solution? keep using oil? or maybe try to diversify
 

appleomac

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Aug 9, 2010
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Tech companies may leave Alberta over Kenney's devotion to oilpatch

just to be clear, i'm NOT an anti oil guy. just that the grip of big oil and its distortion of the economics and politics of Alberta and the west needs some moderating force. boom and bust is not fun and shouldn't be worshiped like some god!
I'm starting to think your concept of "distortion of the economics and politics of Alberta" is just you complaining that Alberta isn't what you want it to be and/or the government of Alberta isn't doing what you want it to do. And news flash, nobody "worships" boom and bust cycles. I mean, you are correct, they are "not fun." So why in gawd's name do you think anyone worships them??? It's like saying people in Vancouver worship the rain because people live in Vancouver - pretty silly logic I would say. Now, do you believe the Alberta government kowtows to the oil industry - absolutely it does. Just like the BC government is prone to kowtow to the real estate/construction industry. Just like (I'd imagine) the California government is prone to kowtow to the tech industry. Just like (I'd imagine) the Nevada government is prone to kowtow to the gambling/hospitality industry. Funny how that works huh?
 

marsvolta

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Aug 31, 2009
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I'm starting to think your concept of "distortion of the economics and politics of Alberta" is just you complaining that Alberta isn't what you want it to be and/or the government of Alberta isn't doing what you want it to do. And news flash, nobody "worships" boom and bust cycles. I mean, you are correct, they are "not fun." So why in gawd's name do you think anyone worships them??? It's like saying people in Vancouver worship the rain because people live in Vancouver - pretty silly logic I would say. Now, do you believe the Alberta government kowtows to the oil industry - absolutely it does. Just like the BC government is prone to kowtow to the real estate/construction industry. Just like (I'd imagine) the California government is prone to kowtow to the tech industry. Just like (I'd imagine) the Nevada government is prone to kowtow to the gambling/hospitality industry. Funny how that works huh?
the majority of Albertans picked Jason and the UCP, they picked boom and bust. they picked "jobs, economy, pipelines" over "jobs, economy, diversification". people in BC can't go to the poles and pick a government that will end rain. but god knows if there was enough money in saying so then some entity would fill enough pockets to make them believe it was possible. but Albertans can go to the poles and make things different. but be sure that Jason and the UCP will have their pockets so full of "ending the rain" money that they will never be saying anything different. Albertans chose to throw the high stakes dice again and now they want the rest of Canada to bail them out? "but we gave you transfer payments, Preston Manning, Nickleback, and Albertan beef!" its dubious to imply that transfer payments are ever "yours to give" but yeah, Alberta beef is delicious!
 

appleomac

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Aug 9, 2010
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the majority of Albertans picked Jason and the UCP, they picked boom and bust. they picked "jobs, economy, pipelines" over "jobs, economy, diversification". people in BC can't go to the poles and pick a government that will end rain. but god knows if there was enough money in saying so then some entity would fill enough pockets to make them believe it was possible. but Albertans can go to the poles and make things different. but be sure that Jason and the UCP will have their pockets so full of "ending the rain" money that they will never be saying anything different. Albertans chose to throw the high stakes dice again and now they want the rest of Canada to bail them out?
You said it mate, no government can change the amount of rain - because the government cannot change how much rain falls. Alberta can't change what happens as it relates to the price of oil - it's like rain, it's beyond their control. And no, it's not as simple as having a different Government in Alberta, that will not change what causes the price of oil to go up and go down - it's what Alberta has to deal with, but that doesn't mean they created it or can control it. Honestly, do you truly believe if Alberta shuttered the oil industry right now, do you believe oil prices would not still fluctuate? If Alberta was Silicon Valley, do you really believe the price of oil would not fluctuate? I will agree with you on one thing, I don't believe government should be buying (in whole or pieces of) businesses. But hey, if governments are continually going to buy auto-makers, airplane makers, pipelines, etc. What do you expect companies to do? Of course they're going to try and go get some for themselves. If only politicians didn't have to make political decisions right? I mean, that's what it boils down to for you isn't, you don't like that government (through bailouts) are picking winners and losers. I don't think they should either. But somehow, I suspect what you're really complaining about isn't that the government is picking winners and losers - you just have a different idea whom the winners and losers should be.
 

Ray

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Dec 21, 2005
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Just remember that the price of oil fluctuations isn't totally based on supply and demand. It's because of Saudi Arabia and Russia flooding the markets to drive the competition, (Canada/USA Shale/Iran) out of business. What we can do is, as Kenney is suggesting, put tariffs on imported oil from those two countries. OPEC no longer exists as a stabilizing entity. In my opinion, ban all imported oil and gas. Alberta oilsands and Irving Oil can meet all of Canada's needs.
 

appleomac

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Aug 9, 2010
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Just remember that the price of oil fluctuations isn't totally based on supply and demand. It's because of Saudi Arabia and Russia flooding the markets to drive the competition, (Canada/USA Shale/Iran) out of business. What we can do is, as Kenney is suggesting, put tariffs on imported oil from those two countries. OPEC no longer exists as a stabilizing entity. In my opinion, ban all imported oil and gas. Alberta oilsands and Irving Oil can meet all of Canada's needs.
LOL! The Saudi and Russia dispute is TOTALLY and COMPLETELY effecting supply - so yes, it really is about supply and demand.

Yes you are correct, there is more than enough oil in Canada for us to be oil self sufficient (we're a net exporter of oil already). The problem with tariffs on Saudi oil is we actually do not import all that much Saudi oil to begin with - I haven't seen the numbers recently, but I'd be surprised if it's more than $4 billion or so worth of oil (I'd take the under if I were a betting man). Now, exactly what do you think the Saudi's will do in response? Granted we don't export a lot of "stuff" to Saudi Arabia, but do you honestly think they won't respond in kind with tariffs on the things we do export to Saudi Arabia? It's why tariffs generally are not a good idea, the other party will simply respond in kind - ends up being six of one, half a dozen of the other!
 

Ray

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Dec 21, 2005
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What I meant with the 'supply and demand' statement is that OPEC would normally look at global demand and adjust production accordingly. Each oil producing country would meet a certain percentage of global demand.
The Saudis have decided to screw over that system to deny market share to Iran. And flooding the supply side to put Canada and the US shale industry out of business too.
Russia has decided it isn't going to reduce it's market share, and maintaining it's production levels no matter how low the price gets.

We export about $2.5 billion to the Saudis, and import just about $2.2 billion. We can do without trade with the Saudis.
We import $19 billion in oil every year, from various sources. We shouldn't.
 

appleomac

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Aug 9, 2010
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What I meant with the 'supply and demand' statement is that OPEC would normally look at global demand and adjust production accordingly. Each oil producing country would meet a certain percentage of global demand.
The Saudis have decided to screw over that system to deny market share to Iran. And flooding the supply side to put Canada and the US shale industry out of business too.
Russia has decided it isn't going to reduce it's market share, and maintaining it's production levels no matter how low the price gets.

We export about $2.5 billion to the Saudis, and import just about $2.2 billion. We can do without trade with the Saudis.
We import $19 billion in oil every year, from various sources. We shouldn't.
Yes, OPEC tries to manage supply, they are a cartel (not the Narcos variety, but the economics variety) - that's exactly what cartels try and do. Saudi, even on its own, can manipulate world oil supply - their oil is some of the easiest to extract and refine, it's a very meaningful advantage. The only advantage North American producers have (assuming North American producers want to export oil) is to convince potential customers that we represent a more "tolerable" supply partner. Generally that is true, North American soil isn't prone to armed conflicts (compared to the middle east) meaning we are a stable supply partner, we have a good human rights record (compared to middle east countries), etc., etc., etc. Unfortunately for us, we (by in large) stop ourselves from exporting our oil, other than to the US. Tariffs will not change that. Making Eastern Canada buy Alberta oil will not change that (nor is their a way to make Eastern Canada buy Alberta oil). Making Canadians buy Blackberries to save Blackberry Ltd. from the likes of Apple and Samsung would not have worked - oil is no different. You can't make Canadians buy. Unfortunately, many Canadians don't even want us to sell it to those that might actually want to buy it - that's the problem.
 
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