A few questions about the Nadia 'situation' that make you go 'hmmmm'....

[Cosmo]

Are we to believe that a person who has absolutely nothing to do with the victim can just get any information from the VPD relating to a supposedly ongoing investigation. Last time I checked there are some privacy legislation in this country.

LOL

Let's put it this way, "Hey Bob (good friend who is police officer) was John Doe arrested for assault last night? Does he have a record? Can you list what he has been charged with?

If Cst. Bob answers those questions, he is guilty of an offense.

Hey Bob, are you investigating John Doe for anything right now?

If Cst. Bob answers 'No' and there is no investigation going on right now... guess what? Cst. Bob has not committed a crime. Bob only commits a crime if he reveals confidential information.

Police can tell you if something doesn't exist because talking about something that never existed is not a crime.

Hey Bob, can you tell me if so and so was raped and robbed?

If 'so-and-so' was robbed, beaten, but not raped. Cst. Bob can tell you, "I can't comment on any alleged robbery or assault. But I can tell you, there was no rape involved"

Cst Bob has told you something, but there is no breach of confidentiality... cause what he commented on never happened.

Get my point?

Police friends can tell you volumes without breaching any confidentiality laws.

 

[Dakota Wood]

Yes wilde,there are,but if you know people who work for say,VPD,RCMP,VGH etc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,It is very easy to find out all kinds of things if you know the right people,and you do it tactfully

Yep. If you tell people you know (including Pacific Press...you missed that one) something along the lines of "my little brother is dating this sketchy woman who claims to have been recently raped and robbed twice by two different men and now he wants to give her a bunch of cash to help out, I have my doubts...did anything like that happen?", you get a yes or no answer. Maybe if the answer was yes, and a name was named, there would be a privacy issue. Since the answer was no, there wasn't a name to name.

 

[bcneil]

Found elsewhere.....not my post.....


All right boys and girls, I have read all the replies to my Nadia, Nadia, Nadia post, (up to about 7:30 p.m.) and sense that there are a number of doubters about the truth or facts that I have posted, and I, as well as all of you, know how annoying it is to be told something hard to believe and then left hanging there, doubting, doubting, doubting, and none of us need that shit again.

Well, I have decided to take you through it step by step, to back up my story. When I'm done, you'll know exactly as much as I know, and I have no fear of doing anything illegal or underhanded, because I'm only stating the facts.

I don't know if this will get me into trouble with the VPD, (they do have my full name, e-mail address and phone number), and for all I know, may even read this.) But as long as I'm not accusing anybody of doing anything criminal, or fabricate malicious, personal attacks or threads, I know I'll be o.k.. Oh well, if shit happens to me, so be it.

So here is my step by step explanation of what I did and how I got my information.

On Friday, Feb 2nd., I received the following attached e-mail from VPD - My original e-mail to them is below their reply. I erased my name and phone # from both e-mails.

Dear Mr.

Thank you for taking the time to write on this matter.

I have this morning forwarded your email to our Sexual Offence Squad and advised them that I've told you this is the action I've taken. The main telephone number for that department, should you wish to contact them directly, is 604-717- 2634

Best regards,

Beth McArthur
Public Affairs
Vancouver Police Department
604-717-2680

Below is my original e-mail to VPD.


I am sorry to take a few minutes of your very valuable time - and I'm not even sure that I am addressing this to the right VPD department.
I am trying to differentiate between a couple of alleged brutal sex crimes or a clever scam.

The following is condensed information that has been posted on 2 popular internet sites.


According to one lady, an escort, single mother with young child, the following terrible rape and robbery happened to her, which she described in much more detail than I will.


She claims that in the first week of January this year, she had a pre-arranged "date" with a new client. The client produced a gun and threatened and raped her 4 times during a 2 hour period, then robbed her of $4,000 cash.

She went to VGH at which time VPD interviewed and also went to her home for some DNA samples.


Less than a week later, according to her, a different client did the following. He held her at gun point for 5 hours, raped her repeatedly, burnt her with a cigarette on many parts of her body, pistol whipped, beat her, pored hot wax on her and this time she was robbed of over $6,000. According to her, VPD investigated again and arrested 3 alleged suspects, who are being held without bail.


Now, on those same 2 internet sites, there are lots of suggestions for financial donations for this lady who claims to be destitute, not even enough money for groceries for her and her child, no rent money or funds for car payments. She even posted her PayPal account to send money to.


If these terrible acts actually happened to this lady, I would be willing to make a cash donation for this poor victim, but if these acts did not occur - I suspect it to be a clever scam.


I know I haven't supplied any names or exact dates because she didn't divulge those, but I suspect that the sexual crimes unit would remember an unusual case such as this a short time ago. Without asking for any details regarding these alleged crimes, is it possible to confirm or deny that you have a record or file and are working on this, 3 suspects are in custody, or is this all news to you.


I sincerely hope that I didn't open up a "can of worms" here. I would just like to know if the money being collected is going to a proper cause.


Thank you very much for your time.


Best Regard.0


On Wed. Feb. 3rd.. I had not heard from them, so I phoned the "Sex Offence" line. A detective Gena (a female)answered, and after a bit stumbling and tongue tied nervousness, I talked about an e-mail that I had sent about a couple of horrific alledged rapes. She already knew about the e-mail, and apparently they were doing some internal investigation or reseach (not sure which word she used), and she asked if she could have my phone number, she already had my name from my e-mail. I gave her my number and she said that one of her superiors would contact me in the next day or two. She was VERY polite. I'll tell you guys, after that call my ass started to pucker up, wondering what shit I got myself into.

The next day I did receive a call from Seargent Arith, also a female. Again, very polite, and said that she phoning regarding my e-mail to them. She informed me that the VPD Sex Offence Squad had no info on this, no file, no record, no knowledge. She asked for the name of the individual, which I told her I didn't know. (I know "Nadia", but I don't know if that's her real name). I asked as many questions as I could think of - all to do with the alledged crime. Ms. Arith - don't even know if that is her first or last name, not that it matters 'cause I don't think there are many Arith in that dept., sort of picked up that I would put the received info on the internet and said the following to me - to the best of my recollection: "Be VERY careful what you post, because just because we at VPD don't have anything on this, that doesn't mean it didn't happen somewhere in the lower mainland". They have nothing on it, but she suggest to contact maybe North or West Van police, or Burnaby of New West. She said I could be liable for posting wrong info. (Needless to say - I didn't contact any of the other L.E.), But she also didn't instruct me not to post her info.

Nadia, if you read this, no sense contacting me by PM for info as I suggest in my original post, no matter how hard you or anybody else wants to squeeze me for more info, I don't have any. What you see is what you get.

Now, if I happen to wind up in the old jail house over this, I hope one of the lovely ladies on this board could come and visit me - I'm sure they have an area for congenial visits. Oh shit - but I won't have any cash on me.

That's all I have folks - and I must admit that this hasn't been the easiest thing I have ever done.

 

[BcMod]

I think the issue, for the moderator, was not that they were 'doubters'... but had to do with the manner in which they expressed their doubt.

In all fairness to the moderator, I think his role here involved mediating conduct (insults, name calling, etc), not being an arbitor of truth.

Just a thought.

Correct. It is reassuring to know that somebody actually read my post without out letting their own agenda cause them to twist things to suit their needs. As I said in the new thread that Ghostwheel started, I take no sides in the issue, my concern is more about how one expresses one's point of view. If it can be shown CONCLUSIVELY that Nadia decieved the board I will deal with her.

Right now we only know 2 things for certain 1) Nadia was injured in some manner as attested to by several PERB members and SP's who visited her and 2) One area of the VPD that should know about the incident if it was a rape seems to be unaware of the incident as attested to by one PERB member.

Being injured does not mean that everything occurred as Nadia relayed, nor does a division of the VPD not being aware of a brutal rape make Nadia a lier. There is nothing conclusive right now other than some PERB members conducted themselves very badly and were banned for their conduct, not for their position on the issue; many others expressed their doubts, but in a more adult fashion, they were not banned and their posts remain.

 

[BS Detector]

I have learned that getting my facts before judgment always helps me to make better choices, I would hope that before calling someone a fake or a fraud on the Internet the facts would be clear yes she is a fraud or no she isn't based on FACT. Jessica James

Gee, that would take all the fun out of the internet for most people

 

[braveheart604]

Sings

Tell me why are we so blind to see
that the ones we hurt are human beings

i wonder if anyone will actually recognize this classic song from Dangerous minds the movie.

 

[massimor]

Nadia, because I was a curious "doubter", I wondered if a citizen not involved in your case at all, could get some additional information about your well documented, detailed rape cases - info or details that were missing and you wouldn't divulge - without me breaking any laws or infringing on any "privacy" issues. I was hoping for that info just to kill my own curiosity, with no intentions of posting any, because the whole issue seemed to have gone to sleep or gone away, until you posted your above mentioned "thread #60.

In it you demanded some proof from certain individuals, which you think you deserved., and you were talking about HUGE double standards.

Well Nadia, I can help you out. I got the information I was seeking, based on the details you volunteered about the VPD involvement in your cases. By your words, VPD interviewed you at VGH, they took DNA at your house from your fingernails, VPD asked you not to give details at first, then VPD asked you to post rape #1 and #2 for information on Scott, VPD has a file number, VPD has arrested 3 suspects without bail, VPD is monitoring terf for any illegal comments because a minor was involved, etc., etc., you also mentioned visiting VGH.

Only going by you mentioning VPD many, many times, one assume these rapes were committed in the Vancouver area, under VPD jurisdiction, - and investigated by the VPD. (If it didn't happen in Vancouver, or you didn't talk to VPD, then obviously I was barking up the wrong tree.)

Also Nadia, my startling comments to follow have nothing whatsoever to do with any robberies that may have occurred at your place, or any physical abuse or torture you may have experienced. They only refer to the 2 alleged rape cases.

Knowing that my info will infuriate some, will disgust some, will label me as a complete idiot and heartless shit, I am only doing what you Nadia, insisted on, the truth.

Well Nadia, the truth is that the Vancouver Police department, in particular the Sex Offence Squad, - after some internal investigation - has no record, no file, no investigation, absolutely no knowledge about your rape encounters, and they did not arrest 3 suspects. (They also assured me that regardless of what crimes are committed, if a rape was involved, they would be involved.)

Nadia, if you like, I would be happy to give you the Sergeant's name and phone number by PM at the Sex Offense Squad, just in case there is some way you can refresh their memory about your brutal dual rapes. I am sure they wouldn't mind talking to you.

Hmmm... good job, bcneil.

 

[Fullhouse]

Hmmm... good job, bcneil.

I don't think this was written by bcneil, I think this was copied and pasted from the other board

 

[bcneil]

I don't think this was written by bcneil, I think this was copied and pasted from the other board

Yes it was, Fullhouse is the private eye.
I just felt the perb members have the right to see this
seems all the nadia threads magically got locked when this came out

 

[BcMod]

.....I just felt the perb members have the right to see this seems all the nadia threads magically got locked when this came out

I am tired of insinuation. If I was trying to 'magically' hide anything I would have 'magically' deleted or edited the threads. All the threads are still there and for the most part intact. The only magical thing was that I didn't lock down some of the threads and ban people sooner. I have left at least 2 threads open on the discussion, but there were way too many to let them all keep running or else they would have taken over the forum.

My apologies for the following side note, I usually try to stay impartial and not make personal comments, but my patience on many issues is running thin;

If you think something was done innapropriately have the balls to step up and say it up front and don't take the coward's way out of insinuation. It doesn't make you look clever, just cowardly. I will not take an action to apease someone, nor will I stop myself from taking an action because of how someone thinks it may appear, peer pressure is another cowardly tactic.

 

[CalgaryJenn]

Sings

Tell me why are we so blind to see
that the ones we hurt are human beings

i wonder if anyone will actually recognize this classic song from Dangerous minds the movie.

Coolio's Gangster Paradise good song but the lyrics are: Tell me why are we, so blind to see
That the one's we hurt, are you and me;o)

 

[bcneil]

I am tired of insinuation. If I was trying to 'magically' hide anything I would have 'magically' deleted or edited the threads. All the threads are still there and for the most part intact. The only magical thing was that I didn't lock down some of the threads and ban people sooner. I have left at least 2 threads open on the discussion, but there were way too many to let them all keep running or else they would have taken over the forum.

My apologies for the following side note, I usually try to stay impartial and not make personal comments, but my patience on many issues is running thin;

If you think something was done innapropriately have the balls to step up and say it up front and don't take the coward's way out of insinuation. It doesn't make you look clever, just cowardly. I will not take an action to apease someone, nor will I stop myself from taking an action because of how someone thinks it may appear, peer pressure is another cowardly tactic.

So then it was just a "fluke" all the Nadia threads were locked, within 10-20 minutes of the big one being released on TERF?
Yet they remained open for over a week prior. Comeon give me a break.
You obviously saw it, and decided to attempt to sweep this away.

 

[belair]

I don't see a broom around here

You obviously saw it, and decided to attempt to sweep this away.

"There (Nadia threads) were way too many to let them all keep running or else they would have taken over the forum."

BcMod states plainly why he locked most of the threads re. Nadia.

 

[Very Veronica]

originally, Stevie Wonder's 'Pastime Paradise'

Corresponding lyrics:

Tell me who of them will come to be
How many of them are you and me

Coolio's Gangster Paradise good song but the lyrics are: Tell me why are we, so blind to see
That the one's we hurt, are you and me;o)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=840uku8_T4Q

Ultimately, the original song is about hope & moving forward..ahem.

 

[BS Detector]

You obviously saw it, and decided to attempt to sweep this away.

Not sure how it is obvious? You must be Mod's room-mate I take it?

 

[BcMod]

So then it was just a "fluke" all the Nadia threads were locked, within 10-20 minutes of the big one being released on TERF?
Yet they remained open for over a week prior. Comeon give me a break.
You obviously saw it, and decided to attempt to sweep this away.

Ah yes, how terribly cleaver of me. I wanted to "sweep it away" and how did I do this? Well cleverly of course! I cleverly drew attention to it by locking down most of the threads! I mean, nobody ever complains about a locked thread, right?

What was my next move to sweep things away? Well I posted in most of the threads that I locked causing them to go to the top of the forum! I got that idea from Edgar Allen Poe and The Purloined Letter - what better way to sweep something away than to bring it to the top of the forum? Oh, and the best part? Well I left at least 2 threads open, one of which had the thread from the other board in it. Oh yes, I swept that one away by leaving it unlocked and unedited!

Oh what a diabolical plot I wove - but you saw right through it.

I don't care if someone has a different point of view than me, I actually enjoy a vigorous debate, but you just called me a liar - for that you go to Perbatory.

And as to how I feel about the whole Nadia thing? Like anybody with a pulse I wanted to help her; but I also had the mindset that I need proof before I part with dollars. I sort of hope that she was scamming all of us. I would rather know that she scammed us than to think she, or anyone, ever had to suffer the brutality that she described.

Oh, did I forget to mention that my final step to cleverly sweep this aside is to ban bcneil and to post on this thread telling how I was sweeping the issue aside and once again bringing it to the top of the forum? I am a great sweeper, you think I should take up curling?

I am tired, time to ban somebody and go to bed.

 

[hugedman]

Yep. If you tell people you know (including Pacific Press...you missed that one) something along the lines of "my little brother is dating this sketchy woman who claims to have been recently raped and robbed twice by two different men and now he wants to give her a bunch of cash to help out, I have my doubts...did anything like that happen?", you get a yes or no answer. Maybe if the answer was yes, and a name was named, there would be a privacy issue. Since the answer was no, there wasn't a name to name.

Grow up, DW, YOU really believe the police will give you a "yes" or "no" answer by the BS you just posted, if this is an ongoing investigation case...give your beautiful head a shake...or better, hit it real hard with a hammer.

Du Ma May

 

[BS Detector]

A suggestion for BCMod. Wait a few days. If Nadia does not come clean with whats up and in light of you banning several doubters for their behavior on the threads on the subject perhaps a permanent ban should be placed on not only Nadia, but her possible comrade in arms who started the Donate to Nadia thread which really started the ball rolling,

I am still reluctant to use the 'scam' word simply because, as I keep saying, it is clear she was hurt, we just are not sure if it was rape. Call me a softie but I rather trust a person under those circumstances and be proven wrong later, than the reverse. As far as banning any 'supporters' here, I disagree because all they were trying to do was help. As I posted earlier, those who were right are not heros for jumping on a potential rape victim. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

And anyone sending nasty e-mails to Isabelle is an idiot. Even if they "suspect" she was in on it, which I don't, it's the same thing happening all over again, Bash First - Prove Later. Other than a strong need to be 'right', I can not unserstand what drive people to this. I guess all it takes one to express doubts and then gang mentality kicks in. Sad when one thinks about it.

 

[Dakota Wood]

Grow up, DW, YOU really believe the police will give you a "yes" or "no" answer by the BS you just posted, if this is an ongoing investigation case...give your beautiful head a shake...or better, hit it real hard with a hammer.

Du Ma May

For the record, I did not say I talked to *the* police, I talked to people I know, who happen to earn their living as police officers. And it looks like the 'case' is closed.

 

[uncleg]

I'm surprised people didn't clue in sooner, in particular when Nadia came up with the "call center" idea for the "safety" of the SP community. Nikki , Honey and nothing out of Nadia in regards to "SP safety". She gets " raped and robbed " and there's an idea, where just by chance she gets to make some extra money as well. Ya right !