The Porn Dude

700 What!!!!!!!!!!! American!!!

Mar 18, 2007
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Not everyone is as fortunate as you. Lots of these people you described are working class people raising a family and doing the best they can. It doesn't mean they are any less relevant.
Not saying anyone is less relevant, just saying there are lots of people who have nothing at stake, and these seem to be the ones who have the luxury to scream the loudest and ignore the severity of the situation.

People need to understand the "bailout package" is actually just a wrong choice of words. What the US government trying to do will save the jobs of lots of working class people which will be lost if the economy collapsed. In fact, when the US government buying up these bad debts, it doesn't mean 700 billion gone. When the US housing market recovers and regains its value, it means every single US citizen has made a smart investment.
 
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Fudd

Banned
Apr 30, 2004
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This whole thing with the start of the housing crisis last year and previous recessions and economic chaos and finally ending in the fanancial chaos of this past week is a perfect example to the failure of the Capitalist system. A system based on the unequal distribution of resources and which allows a small number of Elitist to own a disaportinate amount of the worlds wealth is doomed.

All the worlds resource and wealth should be shared amougst the whole population of the world.

In terms of the 700 Billion for housing for the poor and homeless, just employing poeple to build these home will itself create jobs. In fact, if you hire the poor and homeless to do the construction you are giving them a chance to turn there life around.
 

timhorton

New member
Jun 18, 2002
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The number of economic geniuses on this board is staggering.

H.L. Mencken said it best: For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
 

Fudd

Banned
Apr 30, 2004
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Senate Approves Bailout Bill By Wide Margin

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10440279/1/senate-approves-bailout-bill-by-wide-margin.html?puc=googlefi&cm_ven=GOOGLEFI&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

What the fucks going on???:confused:

I thought this issue was voted on and a resounding NO to the bail out was agreed to.

Why can't they just let this bail out die and let Wall Street crash and burn?

This situation is like an old car I used to own. It was a piece of crap but for years I just keep pumping money into it. In the end the money I spent trying to repair something that just keep breaking down could have been used as a big down payment on a new car.

The Capitalist system is the same way. Every few years you have a recession or some other finacial crisis which just keep reoccuring like car break downs. Just save that 700 Billion to be used to rebuild a better economic system where economic equality and sharing of the nations wealth is the basis of the system.


Internation Socialists Peace Justice Equality Socialism
I would have loved to have been at this protest.
http://www.socialist.ca/En/index.html
 

timhorton

New member
Jun 18, 2002
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Internation Socialists Peace Justice Equality Socialism
I would have loved to have been at this protest.
http://www.socialist.ca/En/index.html
Socialism as a contending western political force died along with the second Paris Commune in 1871 and International Union of Socialist Parties in 1914.

The industrial proletariat became more interested in short term employment benefits and consumer goods than waiting for the "inevitable" revolution.

It was replaced with Leninism, which is decidedly different than Socialism.

Attempts at socialist (not communist) governments since WWI have been either self-destructive, short-lived, or insignificant.

Socialism can only ever feed in the shadow of democratic liberalism in a mature society.

So what you are basically promoting is the political equivalent of a sub-prime mortgage.

Do your homework before you post.
 

1955pont

New member
Sep 22, 2004
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who really caused the problem?

U.S. must fix its financial system
Calgary Herald
Published: Tuesday, September 30, 2008
Both private sector greed and government regulation are to blame for the subprime financial crisis that unfolded south of the border, including Monday's rejection of the $700-billion US rescue package and the subsequent meltdown in the world's financial markets.

This mess began 30 years ago during Jimmy Carter's presidency, with the Community Reinvestment Act, which planted the seeds that would later ripen into even more irresponsible lending.

That 1977 Act, sponsored by Democrats in Congress, was an attempt to force banks to lend more money to poor, inner-city neighbourhoods, including for housing. The claim was that banks would set up shop in low-income areas, take deposits, but then lend money to Americans in richer neighbourhoods.

The accusation, even if true, would be irrelevant: those with lower incomes are often "discriminated" against because of creditor concerns they won't be able to repay the money. It's how banks are supposed to act -- prudently.

The act had its origins in the perennial issue of race: poorer neighbourhoods were often African-American. So while the act maintained that lenders should lend "consistent with safe and sound lending practice" the reality was different.

In 1994, President Bill Clinton rewrote the act and new stipulations made the problem worse. Banks were given strict quotas to ensure their loan portfolios were "diversified," i.e., according to race, or face regulatory denials to expand their operations.

The Clinton administration rewrote the rules for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the U.S. quasi-private mortgage companies that took on so many questionable subprime mortgages. Rule changes in the late 1990s allowed Fannie and Freddie to hold back just 2.5 per cent of capital as backing for investments; that compared to 10 per cent for banks.

The result of the regulations to force banks to lend where they ought not, and to encourage recklessness in the case of Fannie and Freddie, was the explosion in high-risk mortgages. Subprime lending shot up to $1 trillion by 1997, from just $35 billion in 1994.
Ironically, the man some blame for the mess, George W. Bush, tried 17 times to highlight the need for Fannie and Freddie reform since 2000. Bush was blocked by congressional Democrats and by some Republicans.

The U.S. government's historical regulatory push for risky lending was exa****ated by greed at Fannie and Freddie, where some Clinton appointees took in obscene $75 million to $100 million compensation packages over their terms at those two institutions. It was added to by avarice on Wall Street where lousy mortgages were repackaged as triple-A investments.

The response to this on Monday when a $700-billion bailout package failed, perhaps due in part due to Republicans recklessly reacting to a leading Democrat's attack on Bush, was an unwise, risky delay in restoring confidence around the world.

The package is necessary and not to bail out Wall Street which isn't happening anyway: witness the vapourizing of shareholder value in the now-collapsed Washington Mutual last week. The package is about making sure the U.S. and world credit and banking systems don't collapse from a lack of credit and confidence.

There is plenty of partisan blame to go around for the subprime implosion. Both parties need to end the blame game and get the U.S. financial house in order.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald....html?id=6c9f959d-bb64-490d-a8b0-f3446c089f53
 

Big Dog Striker

New member
Nov 17, 2007
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Pork Legislation

When Congress voted down the $ 700 Billion Bailout Plan last Monday and sent the financial markets all over the world in a tailspin, the US Senate decided to mastercraft a revised version of the rescue plan that would have a bigger chance of getting approval from the lawmakers.

In less than 2 days, the Senate came up with a new 451 page revised version of the $ 700 Billion Bailout Plan ( original was only 4 pages ) with all sorts of goodies for their constituencies, quietly tucked into the tax package portion of the new bill, that have little to do with restoring confidence in the financial markets.

Those various earmarks in the bill includes: $ 192 Million for the rum producers in Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands; $ 148 Million for wool fabric producers; $ 100 Million for auto racing which includes the Nascar racing circuit; $ 478 Million for the Hollywood Film Industry; $ 33 Million in tax incentives for investors in American Samoa, $ 10 Million to encourage Americans to ride a bicycle to work; $ 49 Million tax benefit for Alaskan fishermen who sued over the 1989 tanker Exxon valdez oilspill, and $ 2 Million for producers of children's wooden arrows to name a few.

House members did complain about this last Friday but with the eyes of the world on them, they ended up passing the Senate version lock, stock, and barrel. It's beginning to look like Christmas in Washington. The American experience suggest that members of Congress aren't beyond using even the a global economic emergency to prove that all politics is local. I guess some politicians just can't resist the urge to attach pork to perhaps the most important bill they ever participated in their lifetime.
 

Joe King

Member
Jun 9, 2008
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What i find the most ironic is that these institutions wont hesitate to destroy any one that falls on hard times and for any reason cant pay their monthly bills.
Yet when due to greed and mismanagement these same institutions find themselves in trouble the execs get millions of dollars in golden parachute payouts from the very companies that they themselves bankrupted.
Not to mention huge govt bailouts paid for by the same working stiffs they ruin on a daily basis.

WTF is wrong with this picture?
 

timhorton

New member
Jun 18, 2002
223
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WTF is wrong with this picture?
There is plenty of blame to pass around.

Consumers and business don't practice enough self control to run day to day life without credit. They've got themselves into this mess by being entirely dependent on credit.

The lending institutions irresponsibly fed this craving for credit until they couldn't lend any more.

Both sides overextended themselves.

Who's fault is it? By analogy, take an alcoholic who drinks more than he can pay for, and the bartender depleted his booze stock on the drunk's tab.

Take Japan by contrast - banks can't give money away there. Lending rates are almost 0% because traditionally no one borrows money.
 
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