24 Seconds of Hell: My Sad Take on Robert Dziekanski

[chilli]

You did what the law abiding person does, leaves a prmise when they are asked to. Had you not, then you would have been trespassing. If it had gone as far as calling the police and they told you leave, I am sure you would have done the same thing, leave. I do not think you would have been tasered.

Before this incident I would not have thought Robert Dziekanski would have been tasered either.

The police used excessive force plain and simple.

You can say "don't blame the taser", but it's the same argument, guns don't kill people, people do.

Until police learn how to apply taser use properly they shouldn't be using them.

 

[nube]

Before this incident I would not have thought Robert Dziekanski would have been tasered either.

The police used excessive force plain and simple.

You can say "don't blame the taser", but it's the same argument, guns don't kill people, people do.

Until police learn how to apply taser use properly they shouldn't be using them.

I agree...until the police KNOW the meaning of police.

po·lice (pə-lēs')
n., pl. police.
The governmental department charged with the regulation and control of the affairs of a community, now chiefly the department established to maintain order, enforce the law, and prevent and detect crime.

A body of persons making up such a department, trained in methods of law enforcement and crime prevention and detection and authorized to maintain the peace, safety, and order of the community.


Hmmmm... I wonder if this ever WAS in the RCMP hand book....

 

[Krustee]

Kudos for you.
Maybe quote the whole paragraph next time, just not the piece that suits your arguement.

Hmmm....30....far cry from the 275 you lead us to believe. Contributing factor, wonder what else was going on there that was contributing? No where does it specificly say the taser was the cause of death. Still, how many of those 245 left would have been dealt with using deadly force if there were no tasers? As for the 302, I am sure they had some more of those "contributing factors" as well as being tasered.

Taser-Related Deaths = 306
NINE people, including 2 Canadians, have died so far in November after they were tasered. In October, TWO people died in Canada and FOUR in the US. FOUR people died in September in the US. NINE people, a bear and a dog died in August. SIX people died during the month of July. THIRTEEN people died in May. At least 306 people have died in North America proximal to taser use since 2001. The taser has been identified as either a cause or contributing factor in many of the deaths. NINETEEN people have died in Canada since 2003.

http://truthnottasers.blogspot.com/search/label/amnesty international

Amnesty International position on tasers:

What we believe:
1) The safety implications of Tasers require urgent independent and unbiased study.

2) Until such time as independent and unbiased study into the safety implications of Tasers has been properly completed, a moratorium must be imposed upon these weapons.

3) If, after independent and unbiased study has been completed, the Taser is going to remain in the police arsenal, it must be placed at a level equal to lethal force on the continuum of force and used only as a second-to-last resort.

4) Safety standards must be developed for Tasers. There are currently no Canadian safety standards in place for this weapon.

5) Police must not be allowed to investigate themselves but must be subject to independent and unbiased civilian oversight.

6) Families of people who die in police custody in Canada must be provided with funding so that they may be properly represented by legal counsel.

 

[Pantherdash]

Taser-Related Deaths = 306
NINE people, including 2 Canadians, have died so far in November after they were tasered. In October, TWO people died in Canada and FOUR in the US. FOUR people died in September in the US. NINE people, a bear and a dog died in August. SIX people died during the month of July. THIRTEEN people died in May. At least 306 people have died in North America proximal to taser use since 2001. The taser has been identified as either a cause or contributing factor in many of the deaths. NINETEEN people have died in Canada since 2003.

That's 306 Taser deaths out of how many hundreds of thousands quite possibly millions of police responses in how many countries with how many countless different police response standards since 2002, five years. Amnesty International has it all skewed, and do you know why? Because they have to justify their existence. I think they do a good job of raising awareness of torture and abuse of authority but they are also quite melodramatic and like to stir shit too.

And out of all these deaths, tragic as they are, how many of them occurred because some idiot was actually being a fucking idiot? I'd say almost all of them. My favourite is the dufus at the Cecil Hotel in 2004 who was extremely high on coke, agitated and violent and was subsequently tasered. He died a few minutes later, then the public had the balls to suggest that it was because of the choice of the use of the taser. He placed himself in that situation to begin with, then the police respond to remove him, and instead of shooting him, they taser him (and don't say they should have wrestled him to the ground. Do you know how strong a guy on coke can be?) to give him an opportunity to survive the ordeal and as a result of too much coke in his system, he died of a cardiac arrest. Who's to blame there? Should the police have waited until he came down from his coke high, maybe given him a stiff drink from the bar, or told him a bedtime story???

Police response is usually justified because most people aren't willing to place themselves in the position that they have to. So does it seem fair then, to criticise the actions of the police when you're not willing to go there yourself, when you have no idea or experience how to diffuse a situation, let alone in a matter of a few seconds with someone who is unpredictable? Seems kind of hypocritical and disrespectful don't you think? It's so easy to armchair the situation in hindsight, over a beer and in the comfort of your own home, over the course of a few hours. But I'd like to see you try to diffuse a situation with some idiot high on coke, mentally challenged and who hasn't slept in days.

What people have to realize (and a few have) is that if you should place yourself in a position where the police need to respond they have NO IDEA WHO YOU ARE, or what you are capable of doing. If you make sudden movements and become erratic or unpredictable or threatening, what the hell do you think the cops are going to do. Give you a CBJ and FS with COF like one of the SPs on this board? Think of it.

Panther

 

[Krustee]

That's 306 Taser deaths out of how many hundreds of thousands quite possibly millions of police responses in how many countries with how many countless different police response standards since 2002, five years.

All the informatin is on the site that I linked so I invite you and everyone else to read it.

You dont like the little people who complain about what you do?

Go to a country that has no civil rights & you won't have to hear us little people complain about police brutality.

Go to a third world country where you can kill it's citizens with impunity.

Till then - we the little people, are the ones who pay your salary which means - YOU ANSWER TO US!

We live in a country with a justice system & the rule of law.
Police are employed to enforce the law,
- not invent new law,
- not usurp the law,
- not take advantage of others because you think you ARE the law!

Seems kind of hypocritical and disrespectful don't you think? It's so easy to armchair the situation in hindsight, over a beer and in the comfort of your own home, over the course of a few hours. But I'd like to see you try to diffuse a situation with some idiot high on coke, mentally challenged and who hasn't slept in days.

I don't think it's easy but it's not as hard as being shot at on the battlefield in an urban environment in a foreign country.
Yes, I served in the military during Desert Storm so the armchair & hypocrite comments do not apply here.

I will grant you that dealing with the drug addicts is a serious challenge but be thankful you don't have religious military fanatics running at you with C4 wrapped around his chest or worse yet a young girl who refuses to stop at a checkpoint.

You were trained to (or should have been) handle situations & how to diffuse them, rely on that training.

At all times the goal should be to diffuse the situation peacefully.

A "GOOD" cop has the ability to deal with people without using force or pissing his testosterone all over everybody.

I was a bouncer for 2 years & the night club I worked at was busy & frequented by gang members.

I only had 3 altercations in those 2 years.

No one was EVER hospitalized while I was on duty & I had a gun pointed at my chest one night while preventing a gang member from entering the club.

It is not because I am some 6' 7" muscle bound monster either. (My height is less than 5' 9")

I was effective because I communicated with people & diffused situations before they got out of hand.

The same thing cops are trained to do but from what I have seen here have not learned very well.

Your ego is not more important than someone else's life!

what the hell do you think the cops are going to do. Give you a CBJ and FS with COF like one of the SPs on this board? Think of it.

Panther

Yeah I'm reading what you wrote & I'm thinking ...
I'm thinking your arrogant, dangerous & possibly hopeless.


Make sure all your cop buddies read this.

 

[GoodKat]

That's 306 Taser deaths out of how many hundreds of thousands quite possibly millions of police responses in how many countries with how many countless different police response standards since 2002, five years.

That's 306 reasons why tazers shouldn't be classified as "non-lethal"

 

[Da Bookie]

Krustee, for the life of me, I cannot anywhere on that page where it says how many times the tazer was used in Canada and the US in the 6 years where 310 people have died after being tazered. Also, of the 310 people that died, I cannot find any info on the state of that person, or the circumstances that led to the tazering.

With everything I find on the net, I always take it with a grain of salt, something I hope everyone here does. I have seen posts where people claim they know people who are on the force and they claim those officers are in the wrong, yet i also know most cops will not comment as the matter is still under review and they will not comment on their fellow cop brother/sisters.

Also, there are numerous tazerings for the media that is not recorded, would this affect the ratio of tazering and deaths?

 

[Da Bookie]

That's 306 reasons why tazers shouldn't be classified as "non-lethal"

Technically, a choke hold is supposed to be non-lethal yet we all know people have died from lack of oxygen.

If a person is on drugs, alcohol, or in an excited state, the shock from the taser can cause cardiac arrest, but keep in mind normal everyday law-abiding citizens who do not fight back against the police do not have to worry about being tasered, shot at by the police, or having a metal baton to the knee.

 

[chilli]

but keep in mind normal everyday law-abiding citizens who do not fight back against the police do not have to worry about being tasered, shot at by the police, or having a metal baton to the knee.

Really????????????????

Tell that to Robert Dziekanski.


Did you even watch the news? Do you even have a clue what's going on?

 

[ma1234]

That's 306 Taser deaths out of how many hundreds of thousands quite possibly millions of police responses in how many countries with how many countless different police response standards since 2002, five years.

Using the same logic, only a small percentage of all the hundreds of thousands of drunk drivers kill people, so there is nothing wrong with drunk driving.

Is this what you are saying?

 

[smackyo]

i believe that police should have them at their disposal but they should be highly trained in its use and when its proper to use it as it is a less lethal alternative. but it should not be used like it is being used in many cases now as a quick and easy out or as a come along quietly weapon.

 

[Pantherdash]

Really????????????????

Tell that to Robert Dziekanski.


Did you even watch the news? Do you even have a clue what's going on?

I can tell you that Dziekanski was not a law-abiding citizen at the time of his arrest.

 

[GoodKat]

I can tell you that Dziekanski was not a law-abiding citizen at the time of his arrest.

Neither were the officers who allowed him to die while in their custody.

 

[ma1234]

I can tell you that Dziekanski was not a law-abiding citizen at the time of his arrest.

Wow. Willie Pickton will spend the rest of his life getting free room and board and Dziekanski is dead.

Both people broke the law. One maliciously butchered 49 women and fed them to the pigs, the other one lost his patience after having been ignored by officials for ten hours, tired, hungry, probably not feeling well, worrying about his aging mother who drove four hours all the way from Kamloops to see her son and had to go home empty handed. The jerk had the nerve to be in an "agitated" state of mind that actually contributed to his death.

Main thing Justice was done.

 

[Pantherdash]

Using the same logic, only a small percentage of all the hundreds of thousands of drunk drivers kill people, so there is nothing wrong with drunk driving.

Is this what you are saying?

No it's not what I'm saying and using that as a comparison shows your dimn-witted intelligence because you're twisting it to make it look like using a taser is the same thing as making a half-conscious choice to get in your vehicle and drive while drunk.

Drunk driving is stupid and there's no excuse for it; using a taser by a cop in a situation that calls for its use is justified. Plus it's not the taser that kills the perpretrator, it's external circumstances caused by the moron and are possibly later exa****ated by the taser. But you can say the same thing about a blow to the head or a strike of the baton.

Panther

 

[ma1234]

Why couldn't the cops taser Pickton to death before the taxpayers had to spend hundreds of millions on his "defense"

 

[ma1234]

No it's not what I'm saying and using that as a comparison shows your dimn-witted intelligence because you're twisting it to make it look like using a taser is the same thing as making a half-conscious choice to get in your vehicle and drive while drunk.

Drunk driving is stupid and there's no excuse for it; using a taser by a cop in a situation that calls for its use is justified. Plus it's not the taser that kills the perpretrator, it's external circumstances caused by the moron and are possibly later exa****ated by the taser. But you can say the same thing about a blow to the head or a strike of the baton.

Panther

OK, do you really want to know what I am thinking?

I am thinking that electricity fucks up the body's functions and can cause death.

The body has its own electricity, the brain and nerves work with - very low - electric impulses.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to imagine what a high voltage electric shock can do to that delicate system.

There is simply not enough evidence to the contrary, not enough scientific data present.

 

[Pantherdash]

Why couldn't the cops taser Pickton to death before the taxpayers had to spend hundreds of millions on his "defense"

Now THAT would be SWEET JUSTICE!

Panther

 

[Krustee]

Krustee, for the life of me, I cannot anywhere on that page where it says how many times the tazer was used in Canada and the US in the 6 years where 310 people have died after being tazered. Also, of the 310 people that died, I cannot find any info on the state of that person, or the circumstances that led to the tazering.
Also, there are numerous tazerings for the media that is not recorded, would this affect the ratio of tazering and deaths?

So what are ya getting at here Super Hero?
Fuck the media, fuck the people you work for, you don't think there is a problem so there is'nt one & we should all trust the good Super Hero cops because they know whats best for all of us?

Let me put this to you in language you can clearly understand.

IF your a cop YOU work for US!

GOT IT?

You answer to us the taxpayer.

IF we suspect that there is something wrong with how you are enforcing the law - GUESS WHAT???

You get to be investigated.

But what is wrong in this country is that you guys have been investigating yourselves???

WTF??

You work for us & the police should be answering to a panel or commitee established by the taxpayer & responsible to the taxpayer to keep the police in check.

Police are hired to enforce the law -
that does NOT mean they get to break the law.

Technically, a choke hold is supposed to be non-lethal yet we all know people have died from lack of oxygen.

If a person is on drugs, alcohol, or in an excited state, the shock from the taser can cause cardiac arrest, but keep in mind normal everyday law-abiding citizens who do not fight back against the police do not have to worry about being tasered, shot at by the police, or having a metal baton to the knee.

Really????????????????

Tell that to Robert Dziekanski.


Did you even watch the news? Do you even have a clue what's going on?

Oh no Chilli, they had 24 seconds to communicate in Polish & tell him -
"Welcome to Vancouver now you gonna die fucka!"

 

[Pantherdash]

So what are ya getting at here Super Hero?
Fuck the media, fuck the people you work for, you don't think there is a problem so there is'nt one & we should all trust the good Super Hero cops because they know whats best for all of us?

Let me put this to you in language you can clearly understand.

IF your a cop YOU work for US!

GOT IT?

You answer to us the taxpayer.

IF we suspect that there is something wrong with how you are enforcing the law - GUESS WHAT???

You get to be investigated.

But what is wrong in this country is that you guys have been investigating yourselves???

WTF??

You work for us & the police should be answering to a panel or commitee established by the taxpayer & responsible to the taxpayer to keep the police in check.

Police are hired to enforce the law -
that does NOT mean they get to break the law.





Oh no Chilli, they had 24 seconds to communicate in Polish & tell him -
"Welcome to Vancouver now you gonna die fucka!"

You're not a satirist...you're naive, idealistic and stupid...a movie of the week. Now you and smackyo and ma1234 and dustytrails, get a life!

Panther