24 Seconds of Hell: My Sad Take on Robert Dziekanski

[Sonny]

These RCMP were lazy, expedient, stupid and mentally isolated from the situation, and the proof is in the pudding..... one dead new visitor to Vancouver, Canada.

Their gross negligence, incompetence and extreme carelessness is something now that any new arrival to our country, particularly to our city, will have nervously in mind after stepping off the plane.

And, as for the Canada Border Services Agency, they regularly hold up plainly legit folks for hours and hours, particularly if your English is not so good and if you are not white. Their interaction often involves random accusations in intimidating voices trying to ferret out who may be bringing in dutiable whatever. It's a fact that CBSA has a worse reputation than even the US border folks.

 

[ma1234]

do you think they learned from it?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2007/11/22/taser-death.html

Another man died on Wednesday

"A man who was jolted with a Taser has died in a Dartmouth, N.S., jail.

The 45-year-old man died Thursday morning at the Burnside correctional centre, about 20 hours after police used a stun gun on him.

Nova Scotia Justice Minister Cecil Clarke briefed reporters on the death and said there will be a review of police use of Tasers, but there will not be a ban on the weapons.

The RCMP and the province's chief medical examiner are investigating the man's death.

The hand-held Tasers deliver a jolt of electricity, which immobilizes the person targeted.

The unidentified man is the latest person to die after being stunned by a Taser.
"

 

[totravel]

(On the recording) airport staff mistakenly assume (going by what it sounded like to them, no doubt) he speaks "only Russian" and no effort was made to get an interpretor (in any language, he was unfortunate not to speak one of the more common languages of travelers going through YVR.)

The serious incident that caused the RCMP to be called was when he started to destroy valuable computer equipment.

His reaction (screaming "Polizi") on seeing the 4 officers was understandable. Remember he grew up in Pre-Solidarity Poland, and there will always be a fear, not trust, of police for those who lived through that.

The police obviously thought he was dangerous (even though he surrendered peacefully) and waited until his back was turned for the opportunity to taser him. He wasn't expecting that, and of course struggled, causing elevated force.

I'm sure this is not a popular view, but I doubt this incident would have occurred if he was going through US Customs. They wouldn't have been as lackadaisical to set the events in motion in the first place.

To me, YVR staff are more to blame than the RCMP, who were responding hurriedly to the aforementioned destruction of computers.

 

[ma1234]

(On the recording) airport staff mistakenly assume (going by what it sounded like to them, no doubt) he speaks "only Russian" and no effort was made to get an interpretor (in any language, he was unfortunate not to speak one of the more common languages of travelers going through YVR.)

He was Polish, but anyone speaking a slavic language could have helped. Slavs can understand each-other, no matter which slav language they speak.

If there is a will there is a way.

 

[CallMeJack]

I think the cop just wanna test out their new Taser. LOL.

Shoot first, Talk later...

Free SHOT. hahahahahahaha

This is way better than playing duck hunting nintendo. LOL

 

[wilecoyote]

He wasn't Tasered when his back was to the police, but when he turned around and faced them after grabbing a stapler off of the counter. This was not a confused man asking for help, but a man confronting the police in an agitated and very confused state (not normal confused, but "mental issue" confused). Do people thing he grabbed the stapler to help the police with their paperwork? I have a couple cop friends who are quite distraught over the public reaction, and frankly I think it's been a little ridiculous to say the least. Like the freakin letter that started this forum - talk about spinning something into a fairy tale! Is your entire life this melodramatic? I bet you can spin a missed bus into a tale of woe that would bring me to tears. I agree with fuzzyknuckles.


similarly useless are comments such as "a 14 year old with martial arts training could have brought him down." How in god's name could you possibly know that?

I also agree that this one incident does not defince a country, or even a police force. These four men will be judged and scrutinized, and if what they did fell outside of policy and training will be charged as appropriate - that is what the 93 ongoing investigations are for.

I enjoyed a news story about a Polish news team that was sent here to cover the story for back home. When they were told about how Canadians were ashamed by what happened, they looked confused, and said "This isn't about Canada or Canadians, it's about one incident that happened at a Canadian airport, and four individual police officers."

i have also read a couple of great national editorials about how there is so much that we can't see or know from just the video, and that the overblown hysteria shown in the public reaction has been totally unjustified.

Cops sometimes do stupid things, and there has been more than one time I have run into a cowboy with a badge that thought he was better than everyone else. But I've also met some doctors, lawyers, bartenders, clerks, and escorts who act the same way. I have done my fair share of travelling, and am relatively confident that we have a pretty decent balance here in Canada, and for the most part our police forces are as accountable as they can be. I'm sure they protect their own, but with the way the public has reacted to this, can you blame them?

 

[wilecoyote]

on a completely different note ...

Randy Whorewald,

The photo attached at the bottom of your posts almosts generates a spontaneous outpouring from the fella downstairs. Now that is some fantastic artwork!

 

[ma1234]

similarly useless are comments such as "a 14 year old with martial arts training could have brought him down." How in god's name could you possibly know that?

I took marshall arts lessons and saw what some 14 yr old GIRLS were capable of doing!

 

[wilecoyote]

He he. That was actually kind of funny. But what are marshall arts? Is it, like, martial arts for poor spellers? Just kidding. The point is, I agree that a different approach might have worked.

But what I find most interesting is that Paul Pritchard, the apparent "hero" that shot this video (after watching him at the vigil downtown today on TV, I think he's a bit of a self-righteous jack-ass), was there, and at the moment everything occurred, he felt that the police did what they had to do. So he, in the moment, agreed with the police action. It was only after hitting rewind several times that he changed his mind. He said this in a TV interview. So what is more accurate - his first statement that, being there, in the moment, he agreed with the action taken, or that after watching the video and sitting back at arms length, he disagreed with it?

 

[ma1234]

Are these guys on a rampage? Another Canadian died after being tasered.

When will they admit that taser is a lethal weapon?

In the meantime, when you see a police officer, be nice. Ask him is you are allowed to kiss his ass Main thing you stay alive!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/25/canada.taser.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

 

[hunsperger]

He he. That was actually kind of funny. But what are marshall arts? Is it, like, martial arts for poor spellers? Just kidding. The point is, I agree that a different approach might have worked.

But what I find most interesting is that Paul Pritchard, the apparent "hero" that shot this video (after watching him at the vigil downtown today on TV, I think he's a bit of a self-righteous jack-ass), was there, and at the moment everything occurred, he felt that the police did what they had to do. So he, in the moment, agreed with the police action. It was only after hitting rewind several times that he changed his mind. He said this in a TV interview. So what is more accurate - his first statement that, being there, in the moment, he agreed with the action taken, or that after watching the video and sitting back at arms length, he disagreed with it?

i'm in agreement with wilecoyote...

what happened was tragic, obviously...

but there is a whole lot of holier-than-thou grandstanding going on with this story...

not to mention a herd mentality...

based on some of the comments, i have to wonder if there is a hidden agenda...

the media's role in this is also pathetic, all they do is pander to our basest needs...

the media goes to bed at night hoping a plane crashes with 500 people aboard...

makes for a dramatic/good story...

this will be a story in our local papers, especially "The Province", until say, Britney Spears comes to town and flashes her crotch...

just for the record, i have never kissed a cop's ass, although i have seen a few female officers, that if they gave me the opportunity i would, and i have never been tasered...

 

[ma1234]

i'm in agreement with wilecoyote...

what happened was tragic, obviously...

but there is a whole lot of holier-than-thou grandstanding going on with this story...

not to mention a herd mentality...

based on some of the comments, i have to wonder if there is a hidden agenda...

the media's role in this is also pathetic, all they do is pander to our basest needs...

the media goes to bed at night hoping a plane crashes with 500 people aboard...

makes for a dramatic/good story...

this will be a story in our local papers, especially "The Province", until say, Britney Spears comes to town and flashes her crotch...

just for the record, i have never kissed a cop's ass, although i have seen a few female officers, that if they gave me the opportunity i would, and i have never been tasered...

I bet if this happens to somebody close to you you will sing a different tune

 

[ma1234]

The truth is someone can be agitated for different reasons. They don't have to be a criminals just because they act erratically.

The reason could be anxiety attack, need of medication, sleep deprivation, some family emergency, manic depression, etc. These things can prevent someone from thinking clearly and can make him look like a menace.

I don't feel sorry for the guy who abused his wife, but if this doesn't stop, I predict many more innocent victims.

 

[JustAGuy]

... based on some of the comments, i have to wonder if there is a hidden agenda...

My not-so-hidden agenda would be that cops not automatically opt for the easiest possible solution to every problem and now that they've been issued tasers, using it is obviously the easiest solution in their eyes. How long had they been in the room with him before they tasered him? How much effort did they put into trying to sort out what was happening? There were four of the fuckers, remember? What was Djeikanski going to do once he picked up that stapler? Staple the four of them together while they just stood there wondering what he was doing?

 

[ma1234]

My not-so-hidden agenda would be that cops not automatically opt for the easiest possible solution to every problem and now that they've been issued tasers, using it is obviously the easiest solution in their eyes. How long had they been in the room with him before they tasered him? How much effort did they put into trying to sort out what was happening? There were four of the fuckers, remember? What was Djeikanski going to do once he picked up that stapler? Staple the four of them together while they just stood there wondering what he was doing?

Most people are afraid to question authority.

The cops say this is a safe method to disarm someone. Who are we to question them?

Scientists say this is harmless to the human body. Who are we to question them?

The manufacturer says it is a blessing in disguise. Who are we to question them?

Fear mongerers say an airport is full of wannabe-terrorists and we should act first, ask questions later. Who are we to question them?

This is the underlying problem. Authorities HAVE to be questioned once in a while. Especially if they have a stake in hiding the truth.

 

[Rod Steel]

I took marshall arts !

I used to watch Marshall Dillon!

The truth is someone can be agitated for different reasons. They don't have to be a criminals just because they act erratically.

The reason could be anxiety attack, need of medication, sleep deprivation, some family emergency, manic depression, etc.

I think it may have had something to do with the victim sitting there for ten hours and no one even making the slightest effort to help the guy.

 

[hunsperger]

I used to watch Marshall Dillon!



I think it may have had something to do with the victim sitting there for ten hours and no one even making the slightest effort to help the guy.

you stole my thunder...

Marshall Dillon was one of the first practitioners of the marshall arts...

on a serious note...

you are right, doesn't that tell you about what we have become as a society...

it is so easy to sit at a laptop or desktop, AFTER the fact and say i would have done things differently...

instead of the looking at ourselves in the mirror, all we do is lay blame elsewhere, in this case the police...

 

[ma1234]

you stole my thunder...

Marshall Dillon was one of the first practitioners of the marshall arts...

on a serious note...

you are right, doesn't that tell you about what we have become as a society...

instead of the looking at ourselves in the mirror, all we do is lay blame elsewhere, in this case the police...

Oh yeah, how can we be such sissies to lay the blame on the people who committed the crime, when we could easily blame it on the victim?

 

[2tall66]

tasers safe to use

I have heard a few news reports where various chiefs of police and RCMP head honchos have said that the tasers are safe to use and there are no plans to stop the use of tasers. Maybe, if they feel that the tasers are so safe to use they wouldn't mind giving the public a hands on demonstration as to their confidence in the tasers.

 

[Krustee]

Most people are afraid to question authority.

The cops say this is a safe method to disarm someone. Who are we to question them?

Scientists say this is harmless to the human body. Who are we to question them?

The manufacturer says it is a blessing in disguise. Who are we to question them?

Fear mongerers say an airport is full of wannabe-terrorists and we should act first, ask questions later. Who are we to question them?

This is the underlying problem. Authorities HAVE to be questioned once in a while. Especially if they have a stake in hiding the truth.

This is in part, exactly the reason the writers of the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution included this in the Bill Of Rights and it was passed by the House and Senate.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Your Government and all it's officers should be held accountable to the people they are elected to serve.

If the Government fails its people & acts against the interests of the people they (the People) should have the right to defend themselves against tyranny.


Canada does not have this right.



Keep in mind the US is a Federation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution


Federalist Noah Webster wrote:

Tyranny is the exercise of some power over a man, which is not warranted by law, or necessary for the public safety. A people can never be deprived of their liberties, while they retain in their own hands, a power sufficient to any other power in the state.[9]

One example given by Webster of a "power" that the people could resist was that of a standing army:

Another source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States.[8]



Things that make ya go hmmm.