Hi this is Josie Foxxx This Is all just a bunch of crap someone has no life and is trying to create drama and ruin a good man. Obviously I would never do something that I didnt want to do. I have known Steve for many years and he is one of my closest friends and great friend who I trust completely. I feel safe having him in my life. I'm not sure why anyone has tried to ruin him he has never done anything wrong and definately has never hurt me in any way.
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- Thread starter core2max
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Really? How? By email? PM?
And what part of a phone conversation is "grey"?
You've been around the boards long enough to know better, and if you claim to be offering advice, then you should have made damn sure you were giving out real information, and not information that would further control the client details you were going to gain access to by also having access to email and pms because you helped set them up.
If this is a group of so called independents, who get involved with 3rd party marketing, in shared incall and far too much similarity, it is an agency. I think that a prime objection to this entire kind of set up is trying to pass off agency employees as independents. When someone chooses to see an independent, they are doing so because they do not want to be providing their contact info to an agency booker, they do want to talk directly to the sp, and the very fact there have been so many no shows by these same sps tells us a far different story than the one presented here.
dunnochit, no one has to invent things to call you. Based on the information admitted by you, there are plenty of things to call you that are completely accurate.
I would say also that the sps chiming in here now a bit too late and too little. When someone says they are "too busy" I am wondering what all they are handing over to someone else to take care of? If you are too busy to post a half dozen ads in a day, to take care of business, but prefer to pay someone else to do it, you've got real problems. When you pay someone else to post ads on perb, you give them access to your inbox and private messaging.
The biggest joke is the one asking a client to pm and ask about details of the session. Why wouldn't you just tell them to call you?
I posted a comment last night but removed it this morning because I thought it was best not to get involved. However, after reading your comments I really feel that I should not stay silent. Anyone that has seen me will attest to the fact that I am not a person that is controlled or manipulated by anyone. I know Steven and have asked him to post for me because I don't have the time to do it myself. I work very infrequently and have never been coerced into working more than I desire. All of my interactions with him have been positive. I don't presume to understand what events culminated in the decision to wage such a pointed and personal attack on him, but in my opinion the allegations related to his use of violence, etc. are very suspect. Cindy xo
I really have to back up these girls since I've spent a lot of time with a couple of them. The girls I've seen are great and I didn't sense any abuse at all, they have control and can do whatever they like. The real damage is that all their incalls have been made public....now that sucks! I hope this gets sorted since it's interfering with my play time which pisses me off 
Personally, I'm not willing to jump to any conclusions until I know more about the OP. 1 post? Who is this person, how do they have this knowledge, what is their connection to the situation. Cara, why don't you offer to have a session with a known poster on this board? I would love to hear your version while I dive on your muff (LOL). Then I can report back (as soon as I've recoverd my strength).
The OP got the info about addresses from somewhere. Now its either a client who's gone to all of them or one of the sps who was working this group. Don't you think it would be helpful to give a story about her if that is the case, rather than allow speculation on everyone. And if they are so angry, what is behind the exposure? If it is that wonderful a setup, and is not an agency, and only a place to rent incall space, then what the heck could possibly be the problem.
take a quick look through the review threads about some of these girls and you can pick out the shill posters with ease - scores of them. this looks very much like the big false review/pimping outing that hit perb not that long ago - and at least one of the girls who was involved in the last scheme is also involved in this one still operating under the same name :nod:
has anybody else noticed the remarkable similarity in writing style that all these ladies share?
has anybody else noticed the remarkable similarity in writing style that all these ladies share?
I have to back Steve and the girls up here and say that Steve has never once crossed any boundaries with me, nor any of the girls I work with. He is an honest, authentic man and I have placed my confidence and safety with him many times. The accusations that have been made such as violence, abuse and manipulation are false and fradualant. I have felt exploited or controlled by steve.
He provided me with knowledge and experience when I wanted to take part in the industry. He provided a safe clean place to work from when I had no where to see clients. He has helped me with advertising. He had never demanded sexual favors from me. I recently I have taken over my business myself with just his honest opinion and incall available to me and we remain good friends.
I feel honored to have been able to work with such a generous and caring man because I know that is rare in the insustry, and I know the my girlfriends feel the same.
He provided me with knowledge and experience when I wanted to take part in the industry. He provided a safe clean place to work from when I had no where to see clients. He has helped me with advertising. He had never demanded sexual favors from me. I recently I have taken over my business myself with just his honest opinion and incall available to me and we remain good friends.
I feel honored to have been able to work with such a generous and caring man because I know that is rare in the insustry, and I know the my girlfriends feel the same.
Im just curious.. what is steve's cut per session? Like how does it work? I remeber when the weebly girls were around they got $150 from the $250 session, while the handler got $100.
So steve the advertising, web pages, web work, and provides the incall? Is this correct? If this is true, i doubt he is doing this for free and is getting some monetary payment for it.
I dont know about you, but that sounds like a "pimp" to me. Just because he doesnt smack around his girls and treat them poorly doesnt mean he isnt a pimp.
If what the girls are saying is true, and steve treats them well and takes care of them, then i have no problem with this type of relationship. He provides them with services that make their job a bit easier, and they provide him with some cash. Moving fowrad however, i do have a problem with dunnochit posting or starting threads. He already stated in an earlier post that he traded favors with some of these girls. His posting integrity is gone now.
So steve the advertising, web pages, web work, and provides the incall? Is this correct? If this is true, i doubt he is doing this for free and is getting some monetary payment for it.
I dont know about you, but that sounds like a "pimp" to me. Just because he doesnt smack around his girls and treat them poorly doesnt mean he isnt a pimp.
If what the girls are saying is true, and steve treats them well and takes care of them, then i have no problem with this type of relationship. He provides them with services that make their job a bit easier, and they provide him with some cash. Moving fowrad however, i do have a problem with dunnochit posting or starting threads. He already stated in an earlier post that he traded favors with some of these girls. His posting integrity is gone now.
Other than the other valid reasons I gave for not using a phone, depending on the judge, if you are in your home talking on the phone, fine. Standing in Safeway, or in a public space, talking services, then that could be called soliciting. I could be wrong, but it was waht I was led to believe by a friendly Judge
We find ourselves in an anomalous, some would say bizarre, situation where almost everything related to prostitution has been regulated by the criminal law except the transaction itself. The appellants' argument then, more precisely stated, is that in criminalizing so many activities surrounding the act itself, Parliament has made prostitution de facto illegal if not de jure illegal.”, per Dickson CJ at page 44
Setting up emails does not mean access. Even someone like you can figure out how to change a password. And PM's when did they ever mean private. Every admin has access and BTW, try and PM one of the ladies. Most PM's were turned off to ensure privacy for the client.
And because they share an incall they are an agency. Do you know how hard it is for a young girl with no references to secure a nice safe place to work out of downtown. Why don't they live where they work?? Then you have no private life, have to hide everything when people come by etc.. A safe palce to work out of is important.
And your too busy comment? Some go to school full time, have full time jobs, still live at home and have family obligations. Do you think that all SP's just sit around waiting for the likes of you to contact them. Do you think PERB is the only place to advertise. Do you think the ads just create themselves.
Your opinions are noted, but I do not share them. You are looking to make a point, over and over and over again. The only similarity is they shared an incall. I say off worth their heads!!!!
This was a personal attack on me that unfortunately has hurt others. I have my thoughts on who, since the pictures posted on ERS are not in the public domain, but it matters not. The damage is done. Hate me, like me, I do not care. But respect the ladies because your secrets are safe and they did nothing wrong.
JMHO
D
A "generous and caring man?". It's obvious why all the girls working for him are very young, he 's much more in control that way. Hmmm.....he self-admitted that he gets sexual favours from you girls for his services. He runs and operates many illegal incall locations in the city, with many girls working under the "guise" of being independent, no doubt a large part of his income.
He could be criminally charged with many counts of "Keeping Common Bawdy-House" Section 210.(1), and 210.(2)(c) and "Procuring" Section 212.(1)(a) just from the information that he has publicly posted. Thus, He IS A PIMP.
And a quick search on his post history reveals that he constantly shills the girls working for him, as though he was a client.
I for one would want to knock this guy's block off if I found out that he was receiving ANYTHING from the money that I had paid to an apparently independent girl or if he was fucking her because he arranged her to fuck me. Lucky I've never booked with any of them. I always got a strange "spidy sense" from the ads that something was too consistent there.
I wonder is any of these women started in the industry because of you, Steven S......"or dunnochit". If so, then hopefully you'll find your own hell in the afterlife.
Good people do not become pimps. Pimps come in all shapes and sizes, and from all walks of life, but don't kid yourself; a man around 50 years of age running a business such as this is no teddy bear.
Good work caracaresse. You've just confirmed that Steve is a pimp and procurer. Her takes $50 from a one hour incall session from you. Hopefully more girls will chime in and help the prosecution.
AND BOOM GOES THE DYNOMYTE!
From all the info i gathered, here are my conclusions:
Steve is a pimp. He recieves money from the SP for using his place, websites, ads, etc, etc, etc. Just because it's only $50 per session doesnt mean he's any less of a pimp. QUick calculations, how many sessions a day do the girls have? Multiply that by the number of girls on the list.. and it's quite a decent number.
Steve seems to have a good relationship with these girls. They all seem to adore him. The allegations of abuse, cohersion, etc, seem to be false.
Perhaps the girls are offended by the term "pimp." Although true in this case, maybe we should call him something less ugly and offensive. How about, "old rich guy that is nice to young girls and helps them with their SP business in exchange for a small fee."
Like i said, I dont have a problem with this.. no one seems to be getting hurt and the relationship is benificial for all parties involved. The only unfortunate thing is the allegations of abuse.
I wonder when this thread will be locked and removed?
I don't know what the deal is and I'm kind of confused to be quite honest. Not sure why or who would just make this stuff up but anyway. K this is going to be a little long but I'm really starting to be fed up with this bs popping up every six months. It seems pretty simple to me and I'm not sure why there seems to be so much confusion over the meaning of a word: Independent/Independence. I need to get this off my chest once and for all because this really pisses me off.
I think helping someone out, or maybe even perhaps two girls, that could be possible.
When you're talking about as many as the list seems to suggest (and some more not on the list, according to dunnochit) - and multiple locations...uh sorry, that's quite a bit different and you people seem to think the rest of us are stupid if you expect us to not see the difference.
The argument I've heard made in the past about other types of industries where "assistants" are accepted is bull for a few reasons. Most of these don't involve the huge risks to a gentleman's private, professional, family life. I'm sure everyone still prefers discretion all the time, but a breach that might occur as a result of seeing an escort is kind of a way bigger deal. Anyone who denies or downplays this fact only proves why they shouldn't have access to this sensitive info.
Second, other industries that may use "assistants" aren't actually marketing a service specifically on the claim that they're "independent" People they deal with are very aware they're negotiating with an agent, they're not mislead into believing otherwise.
.
Third, whatever anyone says, when an escort identifies as independent, in this industry = escort herself is the one you can expect to be communicating, she has her own incall (maybe she's sharing/renting from another person - or even a hotel room). She may have hired someone to create/update her website but that is the extent of the involvement this person might have. I can see the web guy creating the girls email with the website domain but fail to see why he would need to create a free, generic email for her. (No offense but a free template website also raises some flags because then we're not really talking about an actually web dev guy and he's not offering a technical service or professional support but using a template anyone could also use to create a website. Please.)
I could see how the "help" provided might not qualify as dangerous pimping or be predatory or coercive in nature but the extent of it, how many girls and the fact that there are more than one locations, does qualify as pimping - as an agency owner would qualify. Am I saying agency owners are bad? Not at all. But technically, they are pimps. Just not coercive or predatory (in general). And the important difference here too, is that agency owners are up front about the way things work, up front about who you are communicating with. To a certain extent, they are making themselves accountable and are building a reputation or have established one by proving themselves already.
These types of faux-independent operations are not being upfront from the get-go. This means they see nothing wrong with being deceptive or not being fully honest. They are not concerned with building trust or being ethical and honest about the way they are doing things.
Being, calling or marketing yourself as an independent escort isn't just something you do because you just feel like it or because for some reason you think it sounds better (?) or clients prefer it (?) or just for the heck of it! There is nothing wrong or bad if you have no idea how, if you're not good at or if don't like or don't want to take care of all these things yourself and instead prefer to pay someone (however; cash or "exchange" of services) but then you are not working as an independent escort. It's really not much more complicated and that's just the bottom line.
I don't care what anyone says because if any of you REALLY believed you were still independent despite basically limiting your involvement to showing up for the appointment, then you would not be lying about or hiding how much is being done by someone else or who is doing these things for you. Nor would you have any issue stating this in your ad and website. You would state that someone else is in charge of responding to your emails, pm's and posting ads for you, someone else is in charge of providing and organizing your access to one of many incall locations you share with other ladies for who this person is also in charge of "helping" in the same way...etc...
But no one's up front about it...so why is that? Maybe it's because you all know the first thing people would say is: why are you calling yourself an independent if you're not actually doing anything yourself that independent typically do? Isn't that what the word actually implies? That you're doing these things yourself, that you're the person responding to emails we send you?
I don't give a shit what excuses you give about email being easier and phones, I'm so busy blah blah.... Hello? There are many real independent who seem to manage just fine, in case you haven't noticed! Don't fucking give me that shit. Not to mention most independents might gladly go through the booking process via email only but I've never actually heard of anyone who didn't absolutely require to speak over the phone at least once before meeting...except for faux-independents.
You all make the term "independent" meaningless by being deceptive. You essentially lie to clients, lie about how you do business, show complete disrespect for the trust they put in you when they provide their very private info at their own risk, you let us do the work for real, then try to ride our coattails and expect everyone to be cool about that?
There's no shame in working for an agency. So why bother calling yourself independent - if you're fucking not??
I think helping someone out, or maybe even perhaps two girls, that could be possible.
When you're talking about as many as the list seems to suggest (and some more not on the list, according to dunnochit) - and multiple locations...uh sorry, that's quite a bit different and you people seem to think the rest of us are stupid if you expect us to not see the difference.
The argument I've heard made in the past about other types of industries where "assistants" are accepted is bull for a few reasons. Most of these don't involve the huge risks to a gentleman's private, professional, family life. I'm sure everyone still prefers discretion all the time, but a breach that might occur as a result of seeing an escort is kind of a way bigger deal. Anyone who denies or downplays this fact only proves why they shouldn't have access to this sensitive info.
Second, other industries that may use "assistants" aren't actually marketing a service specifically on the claim that they're "independent" People they deal with are very aware they're negotiating with an agent, they're not mislead into believing otherwise.
.
Third, whatever anyone says, when an escort identifies as independent, in this industry = escort herself is the one you can expect to be communicating, she has her own incall (maybe she's sharing/renting from another person - or even a hotel room). She may have hired someone to create/update her website but that is the extent of the involvement this person might have. I can see the web guy creating the girls email with the website domain but fail to see why he would need to create a free, generic email for her. (No offense but a free template website also raises some flags because then we're not really talking about an actually web dev guy and he's not offering a technical service or professional support but using a template anyone could also use to create a website. Please.)
I could see how the "help" provided might not qualify as dangerous pimping or be predatory or coercive in nature but the extent of it, how many girls and the fact that there are more than one locations, does qualify as pimping - as an agency owner would qualify. Am I saying agency owners are bad? Not at all. But technically, they are pimps. Just not coercive or predatory (in general). And the important difference here too, is that agency owners are up front about the way things work, up front about who you are communicating with. To a certain extent, they are making themselves accountable and are building a reputation or have established one by proving themselves already.
These types of faux-independent operations are not being upfront from the get-go. This means they see nothing wrong with being deceptive or not being fully honest. They are not concerned with building trust or being ethical and honest about the way they are doing things.
Being, calling or marketing yourself as an independent escort isn't just something you do because you just feel like it or because for some reason you think it sounds better (?) or clients prefer it (?) or just for the heck of it! There is nothing wrong or bad if you have no idea how, if you're not good at or if don't like or don't want to take care of all these things yourself and instead prefer to pay someone (however; cash or "exchange" of services) but then you are not working as an independent escort. It's really not much more complicated and that's just the bottom line.
I don't care what anyone says because if any of you REALLY believed you were still independent despite basically limiting your involvement to showing up for the appointment, then you would not be lying about or hiding how much is being done by someone else or who is doing these things for you. Nor would you have any issue stating this in your ad and website. You would state that someone else is in charge of responding to your emails, pm's and posting ads for you, someone else is in charge of providing and organizing your access to one of many incall locations you share with other ladies for who this person is also in charge of "helping" in the same way...etc...
But no one's up front about it...so why is that? Maybe it's because you all know the first thing people would say is: why are you calling yourself an independent if you're not actually doing anything yourself that independent typically do? Isn't that what the word actually implies? That you're doing these things yourself, that you're the person responding to emails we send you?
I don't give a shit what excuses you give about email being easier and phones, I'm so busy blah blah.... Hello? There are many real independent who seem to manage just fine, in case you haven't noticed! Don't fucking give me that shit. Not to mention most independents might gladly go through the booking process via email only but I've never actually heard of anyone who didn't absolutely require to speak over the phone at least once before meeting...except for faux-independents.
You all make the term "independent" meaningless by being deceptive. You essentially lie to clients, lie about how you do business, show complete disrespect for the trust they put in you when they provide their very private info at their own risk, you let us do the work for real, then try to ride our coattails and expect everyone to be cool about that?
There's no shame in working for an agency. So why bother calling yourself independent - if you're fucking not??
Hate to break it to you blackcad.. but any girl you see that doesn't work from home and is either sharing or not sharing an incall.. is usually paying a fee. But instead of it being under her name, its under someone elses. When you need a place to work and don't feel like dealing with the hassle of finding your own place(generally tough without a regular 9-5 job) it's worth a small fee. The rent has to get paid somehow.
I agree with Cara.. would you like to get us a place under your name for free? That would be very helpful! xx
I agree Kali. Call me naive, but I would hope that anyone I choose to see is simply renting a condo or apartment from a landlord who is not privy to activities going on, and not paying a 50 year old guy a fee per session......which automatically takes control over her.
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