The Forever War

[Katlyn]

okay, geeks unite...who's read this?

I love sci-fi but have only recently been turned onto the military side of sci-fi, rather cool stuff though I get lost in all the ranks and lingo. Anyway, I am reading this book right now and wow, I can't believe it was even published back in the 70's with all the bible-thumping and women's lib politics.

In the book men and women fight side by side, a revolutionary thing at that time but nothing new to us. Also in the book men and women were bunk mates, changing their partners all the time. Not only is this encouraged (how cool) but in the book it states it is military law.

I have no problem with this, it's just a book and I think it is an awesome idea...I mean, soldiers are fucking hot and they're full of testosterone. I LOVE my military clients Mmmmmm and would love to bunk with a new one every night! But the reason I can't believe this was allowed to be published, especially 40 years ago, is because the military is basically forcing these women into sexual slavery because they are all DRAFTED, not volunteers (men are drafted also).

Who has read this? What do you think? I am having a bit of a moral dilemma...thinking on one hand "that is awesome, I totally want to be part of that army" and on the other hand "wait a minute, these girls are drafted and then required by law to be promiscuous" (that's what the book says, promiscuous by order of military law). Noone seems to think anything bad about it in the book, the women are compliant by duty and while sometimes the bed roster is assigned, other times when it is not they can exercise control over who they do or do not sleep with and sometimes approach the guys to ask if they will be their bedmate so they all seem pretty okay with it. Though there is mention of 2 women on one base being haggared and worn out from fulfilling their duty for the 18 men on the base and so being happy when reinforcements arrived. (Book was written by a man, can you believe it? )

Obviously it's just a book and not reality but...still I am surprised this was published without huge controversy.



btw I still think it is more awesome than bad, does that make me a bad person?

 

[JpeggeR]

I received this book for Christmas when I was a young teenager and loved it. I haven't read it since so thats going back *ahem* a few years. Let me dig it up as I think I still have it in a box somewhere as I did really enjoy it a lot. If I can recall it was the mix of sex, war and sci fi ..but mostly the sex that got me hooked. Go figure...

Addendum.. liking the book doesn't make you a bad person, as nothing makes you anything. How you respond to many things only reflects how you are thinking and feeling at that moment in time. You may think differently at another point in time.

 

[MissingOne]

I read The Forever War some time in the 70s. Parts of it have stayed in my memory all this time, but oddly, I had long forgotten sexual aspects that Katlyn describes. I remember the futility of the war and a love story.

 

[Thatotherguy]

Obviously it's just a book and not reality but...still I am surprised this was published without huge controversy.

Well, part of what's so great about sci-fi is that the very genre gives authors free reign to explore all sorts of different social/cultural situations, and more often than not nobody will bat an eye about it because it's just sci-fi.

One of my favorite examples of this is the whole organ-bank dilemma brought up in Larry Niven's books. The essential premise is that as organ transplant technology becomes more and more reliable, people can more or less be immortal as long as there's a steady supply of replacement organs. The problem comes when a law is introduced whereby any executed criminals will have all of their organs harvested for the organ banks. This doesn't even come close to keeping up with the demand for organs, however, so over time the population keeps voting for laws that make more and more crimes capital offenses just to keep the organ banks full for law-abiding citizens. It gets to the point where you can be executed for jaywalking. It's kind of a slippery slope moral dilemma which is quite interestingly explored in a series of stories.

Oh and I'm curious, did you ever read Brave New World? Now there's a sci-fi book with an interesting take on sexuality.

 

[CJ Tylers]

The purpose of sci fi is to delve into the question of humanity and confront us with some simple truths about our selves.

That is what the greatest sci fi writers, traditionally, aspired to. If you find yourself questioning something because of the book, then I'd say that the book was well written and managed to do its job.

Enjoy it for what it is, and realize that no matter what the original intent of the writing was... it has solicited a genuine mental/moral debate on your part.

 

[Thatotherguy]

The purpose of sci fi is to delve into the question of humanity and confront us with some simple truths about our selves.

That is what the greatest sci fi writers, traditionally, aspired to. If you find yourself questioning something because of the book, then I'd say that the book was well written and managed to do its job.

Enjoy it for what it is, and realize that no matter what the original intent of the writing was... it has solicited a genuine mental/moral debate on your part.

Hey, that's what I was trying to say! How dare you say it better than I did!

 

[Markl]

okay, geeks unite...who's read this?

I love sci-fi but have only recently been turned onto the military side of sci-fi, rather cool stuff though I get lost in all the ranks and lingo. Anyway, I am reading this book right now and wow, I can't believe it was even published back in the 70's with all the bible-thumping and women's lib politics.

In the book men and women fight side by side, a revolutionary thing at that time but nothing new to us. Also in the book men and women were bunk mates, changing their partners all the time. Not only is this encouraged (how cool) but in the book it states it is military law.

I have no problem with this, it's just a book and I think it is an awesome idea...I mean, soldiers are fucking hot and they're full of testosterone. I LOVE my military clients Mmmmmm and would love to bunk with a new one every night! But the reason I can't believe this was allowed to be published, especially 40 years ago, is because the military is basically forcing these women into sexual slavery because they are all DRAFTED, not volunteers (men are drafted also).

Who has read this? What do you think? I am having a bit of a moral dilemma...thinking on one hand "that is awesome, I totally want to be part of that army" and on the other hand "wait a minute, these girls are drafted and then required by law to be promiscuous" (that's what the book says, promiscuous by order of military law). Noone seems to think anything bad about it in the book, the women are compliant by duty and while sometimes the bed roster is assigned, other times when it is not they can exercise control over who they do or do not sleep with and sometimes approach the guys to ask if they will be their bedmate so they all seem pretty okay with it. Though there is mention of 2 women on one base being haggared and worn out from fulfilling their duty for the 18 men on the base and so being happy when reinforcements arrived. (Book was written by a man, can you believe it? )

Obviously it's just a book and not reality but...still I am surprised this was published without huge controversy.



btw I still think it is more awesome than bad, does that make me a bad person?

Obviously written by a male author Kat.

Never read the book, but I probably have it somewhere in my collection of books. I suggest you read some David Eddings books if you want to appreciate a male author that can understand both sides of the coin, as it were.

Plus his books are really good. Not Stephen R. Donaldson good, but still better than most.

Cheers.

 

[Katlyn]

Well, part of what's so great about sci-fi is that the very genre gives authors free reign to explore all sorts of different social/cultural situations, and more often than not nobody will bat an eye about it because it's just sci-fi.

One of my favorite examples of this is the whole organ-bank dilemma brought up in Larry Niven's books. The essential premise is that as organ transplant technology becomes more and more reliable, people can more or less be immortal as long as there's a steady supply of replacement organs. The problem comes when a law is introduced whereby any executed criminals will have all of their organs harvested for the organ banks. This doesn't even come close to keeping up with the demand for organs, however, so over time the population keeps voting for laws that make more and more crimes capital offenses just to keep the organ banks full for law-abiding citizens. It gets to the point where you can be executed for jaywalking. It's kind of a slippery slope moral dilemma which is quite interestingly explored in a series of stories.

Oh and I'm curious, did you ever read Brave New World? Now there's a sci-fi book with an interesting take on sexuality.

I haven't read either but have been told to read both. I love sci-fi but tend to stick more to the dime novels, the ones that can be read in 3 hours flat without too much emphasis on thinking lol

The purpose of sci fi is to delve into the question of humanity and confront us with some simple truths about our selves.

That is what the greatest sci fi writers, traditionally, aspired to. If you find yourself questioning something because of the book, then I'd say that the book was well written and managed to do its job.

Enjoy it for what it is, and realize that no matter what the original intent of the writing was... it has solicited a genuine mental/moral debate on your part.

Oh yes, I quite like this book! I just never would have really picked up on it if I had not been working as an escort and now am so aware of these types of situations in real life.


I should have said in my original post: btw I LOVE sci-fi, am a total trekkie, and one of the things I LOVE about it is all the good sex that is in it!! The undersexed nerds who write these books have the same fantasies as me so I like these books way better than romance novels! I mean, if I could live in this novel I would, I can't imagine anything hotter than it being my DUTY to bunk up with a different hot testosterone filled soldier every night! You can ask Madeleine about this...I LOVE soldiers lol

 

[bcneil]

Looks like the movie is finally being made. I know they have said that for the last 25 years, but it looks like the wheels are finally turning.

 

[Thatotherguy]

I haven't read either but have been told to read both. I love sci-fi but tend to stick more to the dime novels, the ones that can be read in 3 hours flat without too much emphasis on thinking lol

You'd probably enjoy the Larry Niven books more than Brave New World, then (and for that matter, I do too). They're hard sci-fi in a lot of respects, but there are usually strong elements of detective and/or adventure story in them. In a lot of ways they read like a dime novel (in a good way - not like a crappy dime novel), but there are also usually elements in them that make you think about deeper issues. He's done a lot of short stories that would probably be right up your alley (and they're easy to find in collections in used book stores).

 

[CJ Tylers]

*chuckle*

The Lazarus Effect stands out as the worst case of undersexed nerd writing that I can think of. That guy:

1) has lived for hundreds of years and seduced a multitude of women
2) has found a way to turn his favourite ship computer synth's into 2 sex starved, nympho twins... which he copulates with..
3) has found a way to travel back in time to WWII in order to seduce and copulate WITH HIS OWN MOTHER.

And these are just the most outlandish of his conquests that I recall. Other than that, the book actually wasn' bad.

I am quite a fan of Asimnov's books... Foundation and Empire (series) as well as many others that I forget.

That said, sci-fi has no particular stranglehold on undersexed (or over?) writers... Piers Anthony has ALOT of sex in his books... even though I do enjoy the Magic Kingdom and Incarnation series (actually, the Incarnation series borders on sci fi...great books, especially the incarnation of Evil).

I think Robert Aspin (myth inc.), however, ranks as my second fav. fantasy writer...following JRRT, of course. So many good writers manage to blend the human controversy into their works.

That said, right now I've borrowed 2 old philosphy books from my parents: "Introductory Philosphical Analysis" and "The Problems of Philosphy". It'll be an interesting read, if I can wrap my head around some of it. There's no real substitute for a lecture hall and a flesh and blood instructor, eh?

Hastur, hastur...haster?