The Porn Dude

The all-Canadian wealth test

What is your annual income?

  • Less than $9,600.00

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • $9,600.00 to $19,100.00

    Votes: 5 3.7%
  • $19,100.00 to $33,300.00

    Votes: 8 6.0%
  • $33,300.00 to $56,500.00

    Votes: 25 18.7%
  • More than $56,500.00

    Votes: 88 65.7%
  • I'm on Welfare

    Votes: 7 5.2%

  • Total voters
    134

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
The article below was a bit of an eye opener to me, give it a read & post your commentary.

Are you earning the paycheque you should? Is your net worth on target? We've peeked into wallets across the country to reveal the surprising answers.

Ian McGugan and Phil Froats, (Canadian Business)


Our personal balance sheets are closely guarded secrets. We rarely discuss how much we make or how much we're worth even with our closest friends. When it comes to acquaintances or strangers, personal finances are a radioactive zone, entry verboten. No matter how much we might like to know about our neighbors' financial status, we would never think about leaning over the backyard fence and asking them for a glimpse inside their wallets.

Instead, we watch and we worry. We learn that our 28-year-old cousin just bought a sprawling suburban mansion, we hear that a co-worker is taking a four-week vacation in a place we've only seen on the Discovery Channel, and we begin to think that maybe, just maybe, we're falling behind other people in the race to get rich.

If that sums up your state of mind, help is at hand. For the past few months we at MoneySense have been drilling into government documents, manhandling spreadsheets and pounding numbers to build a detailed model of personal finances across the country. Our goal is to help you see how your income, your net worth and your retirement savings compare to those of other Canadians.

Some of our results will put your mind at ease. For instance, despite all the reports you read of multi-million-dollar salaries, average paycheques aren't as imposing as you might fear. If you worry that you're not earning as much as your brother-in-law, you may be pleasantly surprised to discover that you're doing just fine.

There's some other good news, too. As it turns out, the last four years have been fat years for many Canadians. When we last presented our All-Canadian Wealth Report in our November 2003 issue, we divided all Canadians into five equal groups, ranging from the poorest to the wealthiest, and showed you how much net worth each group possessed. To be considered middle class - in other words, to be among the 20% of Canadians smack in the middle of the wealth distribution - you had to possess $65,900 to $169,000 in net worth. To qualify for the top group - to be among the richest 20% of Canadians - you had to be worth more than $380,600.

Fast forward to 2007 and the numbers have shot up, up, up. The middle class now spans those with $92,400 to $244,300 in net worth. To be admitted to the top tier of net worth, you need more than $656,700 - nearly $300,000 more than was required four years ago. For many Canadians, prosperity abounds.

But not all the news is so cheery. If you probe the numbers it's clear that Canadians are taking on more debt than ever before. Furthermore, the bulk of the gains in wealth have gone to our richest citizens. The middle class has enjoyed a far smaller boom, while the poorest Canadians have little to show for the past several years. Perhaps because of those factors, most Canadians are ill prepared for retirement.

How big is yours? Comparing incomes

Before we start discussing how wealth is distributed, we need to figure out what we mean by wealth - and that's trickier than you may think. For starters, you have to distinguish between income and net worth. Income is what you take in during a year; net worth is what you would be left with if you sold all your assets and paid off all your debts.

Income and net worth are usually related, but they don't always go together hand-in-hand. A 30-year-old doctor who just completed qualifying as a surgeon may be making $250,000 a year - but have nothing more to her name than a car, a bunch of textbooks, and a fistful of student debts. On the other hand, a retired auto mechanic who bought a four-bedroom home in the right neighborhood of Vancouver 40 years ago may today be sitting on property worth $2 million - but might also be struggling to get by on a pension of only $30,000 a year.

Is the high-income, zero-net-worth surgeon wealthier than the low-income, high-net-worth retiree? You could argue it either way. The important thing to keep in mind is that wealth is more than a single number. You have to look at a person's age, income, and net worth to get a full picture of where they stand.

Are you paid enough?

Your total income (line 150 on your income tax return) is one indicator of how well you're doing financially. The median annual paycheque in Canada is $26,300.

INCOME RANK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .TOTAL INCOME IN 2006
Lowest paid 20% . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Less than $9,600
Next 20% . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $9,600 to $19,100
Middle 20% . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $19,100 to $33,300
Next 20% . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $33,300 to $56,500
Best paid 20% . . . . . . . . . . . . . . More than $56,500
Source: Canada Revenue Agency and MoneySense calculations


The easiest place to begin assessing your own wealth is with the size of your paycheque. In Are you paid enough? (left), we've divided Canadians into five groups of equal size, known as quintiles, based upon their total incomes. The numbers may surprise you, especially if you live in a large city where big incomes are common, or if you're a member of a well-paid profession. It turns out that the median Canadian income ticks in at $26,300. If you made more than $53,400 this past year, you are in the top 20% of all income earners in Canada. If you made more than $95,000, you are in the top 5% of all income earners.

Measuring people solely by the size of their individual paycheques does have some limitations. For instance, the figures we've cited above include the paycheques of teenagers who make $3,000 a year working weekends at Tim Hortons. Their relatively low earnings pull down the overall figures. To provide a slightly different perspective on incomes, we've broken down the income numbers by individuals living alone and by total family income. You can see the results in The income outcome (right). We figure that the median person living alone hauled in $27,500 over the course of the past year, while the median family took in $62,600.

The income outcome

We've broken down the income numbers to show you what's typical for individuals living alone and for families. The median Canadian family had a total income of $62,600 in 2006; the typical individual living alone had an income of $27,500.

INCOME RANK . . . . . . . . . . INDIVIDUALS LIVING ALONE . . . . . . . FAMILIES
Lowest paid 20% . . . . . . . . . . . $10,700 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $36,600
Next 20% . . . . . . . . . . . Between $10,700 and $20,300 . . . . . . . . Between $36,600 and $58,600
Middle 20% . . . . . . . . . . Between $20,300 and $33,100 . . . . . . . . Between $58,600 and $82,200
Next 20% . . . . . . . . . . . Between $33,100 and $53,400 . . . . . . . . Between $82,200 and $115,600
Best paid 20% . . . . . . . . . . . . . More than $53,400 . . . . . . . . . . . More than $115,600
Source: 2001 Census, September 2007 Statistics Canada issue of Perspectives: High-Income Canadians and MoneySense calculations


Our data may provide you with a new sense of what constitutes a big income. We read about hockey players signing million-dollar contracts and corporate executives pulling down seven-figure paydays, but the reality is a lot more down to earth. If you're a single person living alone and you want to place among the top quintile of similar income earners in Canada, you have to make... drumroll, please...$53,400 or more a year. If you're married, you and your spouse have to take in at least $115,600 between the two of you to achieve the same distinction. On the basis of those numbers, a single nurse probably qualifies as a member of Canada's financial elite; ditto for a pair of married high school teachers.

Continued here:
The all-Canadian wealth test

What do you think?
:confused:
 

chilli

Member
Jul 25, 2005
993
12
18
"If you made more than $95,000, you are in the top 5% of all income earners."

That is shocking.

How do people afford all of those million dollar houses?
 

d_Duck55

New member
Aug 11, 2004
884
3
0
"If you made more than $95,000, you are in the top 5% of all income earners."

That is shocking.

How do people afford all of those million dollar houses?
How about:
(a) I bought it when it was $300,000
(b) $tock Option$
 

LonelyGhost

Telefunkin
Apr 26, 2004
3,935
0
0
"If you made more than $95,000, you are in the top 5% of all income earners."

That is shocking.

How do people afford all of those million dollar houses?
1. bought something when real estate was cheap and moved up
strategically ... I have met people who sold and bought up every
5-7 years ...

2. bought property that helps pay for itself ... get a boarder or a
tenant

3. stock market ... almost a trillion dollars got yanked out of the
market and plowed into real estate after the last meltdown ... guess
what happened to prices?

4. leverage: knew a guy who bought an apartment building when they
still made sense ... the moment he had equity he borrowed and bought
another ... the moment he had more equity he bought another one ...
and so on ...

5. family: parents help out or leave a house to a kid ... had a friend
whose parents gave him the down payment on a house and he had his
sister live in the basement as a tenant for over 5 years ... she then
did the same thing ... to this day that guy has a tenant in his basement
which pays some of the expenses.

Those are the smart ways to do it ...
 

bcneil

I am from BC
Aug 24, 2007
2,095
0
0
These figures never take in business owners, who live very well.
Yet earn 0 when filing taxes
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
Well now is'nt this interesting?

Has anyone noticed that THIS board has over double the percentage of earners in the top quintile of income?

Actually, according to the poll results at the time of this writing, we have 2.8 times or 180% more top quintile income earners here than the rest of the nation!
:confused: :confused: :confused:

From a statistical standpoint we should have seen 10 respondents in each of the 6 categories in the poll, but the bell curve actually sits right above the division between the top & the second from top income.

Now this could be due to one of 3 possible reasons;
  1. The persons who voted actually make above the top 20% income in the entire nation.
  2. The persons voting do not know what their income truly is.
  3. The persons voting are not being honest about their income.


What do you all think is the most likely reason for this disparity from the National study?



My suspicion:
Even with complete anononymity there are those who will not be truthful.

:rolleyes:
 

Sir_frixalot

Big Pink Steel
Nov 15, 2006
227
1
0
Calgs
The only way into the top 10%, or even 20% - unless you are born there - (in that case F O A D) - is by working hard when you are young and investing wisely in yourself. Don't piss away your earnings. Improve your investments. BTW a car is not an investment. It's a tool. Sometimes a flashy car will help make you more $$, but if it doesn't, then focus on reliability and resale...

Don't look at what other people have - just focus on yourself and what you have planned. Comparing will just drive you crazy and make you do stupid things.

Get-rich-quick schemes = no such thing.

Stock market = gambling, good luck..!

Pooning? When you are there, THEN go for it dude...! (plan to hit it at 40 or sooner) You WON..!
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
I don`t find this interesting at all. I did a survey a while back about how much pooner`s earn https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=75702. Of course the majority of pooner`s will belong in the top 20% paid. It`s an expensive hobby which only the higher earners can afford.
Don`t underestimate the (younger) guys who earn $50K or less.....

You can have a guy making close to $200K, maximizes his RRSP contributions, mortgaged to the hilt, drives a shitty `95 Contour, has 3 young kids and a non-working spouse who loves to shop..basically can only afford to poon sparingly, while at the other end of the spectrum, you can have a young guy making $45K, lives at home, unattached, drives an X5 and can afford to poon 3 or 4 times a week if he wishes.
So, what about the guys living in Mom`s basement?
:confused:
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
I wasn't trying to sound condescending. But I'm pretty sure most pooners are older wealthier males not living at home with mommy and daddy.
Ooohh ... ? ... !!

THOSE guys!










But there are the exceptions:

 

SexyBoy

Looking for a Sexy Girl
Oct 2, 2006
2,044
1
0
Who ever said a pooner had a average income?

Even at 80k per year that is only about 40/hr

Pooning is expensive it isn't for the poor.
 

aznboi9

Don't mind me...
May 3, 2005
1,380
3
38
Here Be Monsters

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
I just learn to budget.
Does that mean cheaper ho's



or spend less on other stuff so you can stay in the high maintenance club?

 

jimbo2006

New member
Jun 12, 2006
541
0
0
1. bought something when real estate was cheap and moved up
strategically ... I have met people who sold and bought up every
5-7 years ...

2. bought property that helps pay for itself ... get a boarder or a
tenant

3. stock market ... almost a trillion dollars got yanked out of the
market and plowed into real estate after the last meltdown ... guess
what happened to prices?

4. leverage: knew a guy who bought an apartment building when they
still made sense ... the moment he had equity he borrowed and bought
another ... the moment he had more equity he bought another one ...
and so on ...

5. family: parents help out or leave a house to a kid ... had a friend
whose parents gave him the down payment on a house and he had his
sister live in the basement as a tenant for over 5 years ... she then
did the same thing ... to this day that guy has a tenant in his basement
which pays some of the expenses.

Those are the smart ways to do it ...
Agree with all of the above

I'm not sure all the figures quoted in the article are current. They could be based on the most recent data available from dated Statscan figures, or they could be based on tax returns. More realistically, I would think that there should be a few more income tiers beyond the $56K threshold: 57-75K; 76-100K; 101-125K; and over 125K

The numbers don't take into account regional differences. Somebody making $50K in Vancouver, lives alone and looking to buy a property would be totally priced out of d/t van but might possibly find a 500 square feet concrete box in the burbs within range, while the same $50K income in Saskatchewan might fetch a nice 3 BR rancher on a big lot.

How many people amongst the large self-employed or cash-based groups don't at least try to cheat a little on their taxes, if they can get away with it?

Since Vancouver has become the equivalent of the swiss piggy bank in terms of real estate for the rich from abroad.. what about the new immigrants? Many of the 'astronaut' variety don't declare any income locally, but own properties, and pull in substantial overseas income. They're the ones buying the $3 million homes all cash.. yet many are quick to label them as drug kingpins or members of organized crime.

What about those who have capitalized on the 0% down scheme and accumulated a bunch of properties over the years, rented them all out and manage them as a full time job, but don't actually declare any income..and as an added perk, they get the biggest smiles from the cute little bank tellers whenever they pop into the branch to make their monthly deposits..not to mention they're also sitting on a shitload of equity. How do you account for someone like this?

What about the doctors, lawyers and other professionals who are able to shelter their incomes using their personal corporations? The successful realtors will be next to capitalize on this scheme

Speaking of which, what about the successful realtors, appraisers, mortgage brokers and such who earn 'inflated' incomes during the boom years of real estate, but drop back down to earth when the market cools

Just a few examples..sure there are many more
 

island-guy

New member
Sep 27, 2007
707
6
0
There's plenty of people in Vancouver living in million dollar homes and collecting welfare. Especially in Richmond.

How it works is quite simple. The husband's income is all earned in Hong Kong or China and isn't declared in Canada. The $1 million house is in the name of his brother, father, sister or some other relative but his wife and kids live there. Same goes for the Benz in the driveway.

Since the family reports no income in Canada and is 'living with relatives' they are able to collect a welfare cheque, and they laugh about how easy it is to get free money.

When I was going to school I heard this story several times from 18-20 year olds that were driving $100k cars and collecting financial aid bursaries because their family was on welfare with no income in Canada. They always laughed and said "Why not? It's so easy"
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
There's plenty of people in Vancouver living in million dollar homes and collecting welfare. Especially in Richmond.

How it works is quite simple. The husband's income is all earned in Hong Kong or China and isn't declared in Canada. The $1 million house is in the name of his brother, father, sister or some other relative but his wife and kids live there. Same goes for the Benz in the driveway.

Since the family reports no income in Canada and is 'living with relatives' they are able to collect a welfare cheque, and they laugh about how easy it is to get free money.

When I was going to school I heard this story several times from 18-20 year olds that were driving $100k cars and collecting financial aid bursaries because their family was on welfare with no income in Canada. They always laughed and said "Why not? It's so easy"
Another example of the collossal stupidity of our welfare state.
Are you proud to be a Socialist now?
 

tarzan

Member
Jun 7, 2005
41
0
6
Another example of the collossal stupidity of our welfare state.
Are you proud to be a Socialist now?
Socialist believe in a welfare state but I don't think they would condone any abuse or fraud.
Believing in a principle and administering a flawed system are two different things.
 

island-guy

New member
Sep 27, 2007
707
6
0
Socialist believe in a welfare state but I don't think they would condone any abuse or fraud.
Believing in a principle and administering a flawed system are two different things.
If you find a group of socialists capable of putting a system in place that isn't subject to massive fraud and abuse, let us know.

Cold war russia, anyone?

Remember how hard the socialists complained when Ontario changed the rules so that welfare recipients had to actually show up to pick up their cheques (unless they were disabled or single mothers of kids under school age)?

Funny thing is, when they put that rule in place, *poof* about 250,000 people collecting welfare by direct-deposit disappeared.

I guess the trek back to Ontario from Florida was too far for them to go for their welfare cheque.
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
Funny thing is, when they put that rule in place, *poof* about 250,000 people collecting welfare by direct-deposit disappeared.

I guess the trek back to Ontario from Florida was too far for them to go for their welfare cheque.
AMEN brutha!

I work for a living, always have & I pay dearly in taxes to support all those deserving needy people on welfare -
Hi welfare people, I'm working hard for you & your next check is in the mail!

I just have one small request for some of those welfare people getting my money -
'please use condoms while your at home on the couch watching Judge Judy getting banged by your feeloader dope-head boyfriends.'

 

jraf

I Learn Best By Touching
Feb 7, 2008
37
0
0
On an island
A group of socialists

If you find a group of socialists capable of putting a system in place that isn't subject to massive fraud and abuse, let us know.

Cold war Russia, anyone?
"Socialism" doesn't = fraud. Any systems integritiy is subject to those power.

I've worked all my life as well, and have never minded that there are those in society who find themselves in dire straits and need the assistance of the populace to help them through a tough period. I'm not, however, thrilled about the fraud against the taxpayer that is perpetrated on the taxpayer by anyone, be they individuals, public officials or corporations.
 
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