Vancouver a scarred paradise, UN says

[vegasdaddy]

Vancouver a scarred paradise, UN says

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=2acd99cd-3017-47ce-8e49-437d83bd7411&k=61909

Peter O'Neil
Vancouver Sun


Thursday, June 28, 2007

CREDIT: Vancouver Sun Files
Vancouver is blighted by urban misery in Downtown Eastside, UN report says.

OTTAWA -- Vancouver is an apparent "paradise" blighted by a two-kilometre square stretch of urban misery, the United Nations said Wednesday.

A grim analysis of the city's drug-drenched Downtown Eastside was included in a report released around the world by the UN Population Fund, which warns of huge social and environmental costs as urban populations skyrocket over the next two decades.

While the report focuses on the growing crisis in large and small cities in underdeveloped countries, Vancouver is one of five cities around the world high profiled as urban areas providing unique examples of urban development.

It describes Vancouver as a "breathtakingly gorgeous" city with a sizzling economy.

"But there is trouble in paradise. And nowhere is it more evident than in the Downtown Eastside -- a two-kilometre-square stretch of decaying rooming houses, seedy strip bars and shady pawnshops," states the UN agency.

"Worst of all, it is home to a hepatitis C (HCV) rate of just below 70 per cent and an HIV prevalence rate of an estimated 30 per cent -- the same as Botswana's."

A city with staggering wealth and soul-crushing poverty is far from unusual in the world's largest cities, the report notes.

"What makes the Downtown Eastside so different is that it is located in one of the most prosperous cities in one of the world's most prosperous countries."

The UN Population Fund says next year, for the first time in history, half the world's population -- 3.3 billion people -- will live in urban areas. The number will swell to almost five billion by 2030.

The report calls for pre-emptive action to deal with lack of housing, employment, good governance, and environmental stewardship.

 

[LaCreme]

Vancouver a scarred paradise, UN says

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/...ld for travellers with special needs.:D :D :D

 

[Fudd]

And to think, we're going to spend $1.6 Billion dollars on the Olympics. What a waste of money. If that money was put into the East side we could reshape the entire area to be a much better place.

 

[klassix]

yeah but we have potential to make money off the olympics not just piss it away

 

[georgebushmoron]

And to think, we're going to spend $1.6 Billion dollars on the Olympics. What a waste of money. If that money was put into the East side we could reshape the entire area to be a much better place.

$1.6B is not going to solve the drug problem, nor will it solve the homeless problem due to the causes there. What will solve the problem is a change of law at the highest level first - curbing personal freedoms as it has been done in the United States under the Patriot Act. With that, round up all the addicts and lock them up in an institution indefinitely until they are no longer addicts, or alive. The $1.6B on the Olympics is an investment in the future economy of BC, just as Skytrain and Expo were.

 

[LutherBlissett]

George, you are talking like an idiot.

How the hell can I guy as bright as you think something like this?

Yeah, that's right -- do what they do in the States where they have some of the highest rates of incarceration, drug abuse and murder in the developed world. If the Yanks are so smart, why hasn't the frickin' "War on Drugs" worked there?

C'mon, Georgie, use a little of that lateral thinking. The Downtown Eastside problem is way more complex than "throw away the key" thinking.

I know you can do it. This is just mental lazinesss.

 

[georgebushmoron]

George, you are talking like an idiot.

How the hell can I guy as bright as you think something like this?

Yeah, that's right -- do what they do in the States where they have some of the highest rates of incarceration, drug abuse and murder in the developed world. If the Yanks are so smart, why hasn't the frickin' "War on Drugs" worked there?

C'mon, Georgie, use a little of that lateral thinking. The Downtown Eastside problem is way more complex than "throw away the key" thinking.

I know you can do it. This is just mental lazinesss.

They've been trying to solve the problem for decades. Apparently, even the latest plans, while making it more safe for them, is not going to make the majority non-addicts. Many experts have conceded that if there were any assured success rates of coming off drug dependency, it's the ones who were forced to quit cold turkey. I see not too many problems in taking away their personal freedoms if they are drug addicts because they actually harm society a lot even if they never commit even one crime, and it is also hurting others who could use the money that has been spent on LE to act on crime associated with drugs. They've abdicated their autonomy for they can not feed or house themselves. They can't even find a clean needle on their own to feed their own habits. With that disability to care for themselves, they become a ward of the state by default, and the state has the obligation to ensure that they are out of harm's way and also can not harm others. We cling to the notion that everyone has personal rights and freedoms, but frankly we should re-examine that and accord them only to those who decide to be a productive member of society (ie: those in jails already have their freedoms taken away). I believe that forced treatment and institutionalization is the only means in hope of solving a drug addiction problem for them and for solving a social evil.

 

[LutherBlissett]

George, George, George.

You ignored my entreaty. That is not the lateral thinking I have come to expect of you.

Try some of this:

Bruce Alexander, PhD at SFU, Professor Emiritus in Psych has challenged the accepted dogma of addiction. He states there is nothing inherently addictive about any drug -- even opiates. "The vast majority of people will use even the most addictive substances, perhaps repeatedly, but there is no inexorable progression to hell."

Prior to the point at which opiates became illegal from the "temperance" folk, when opium was legal, the addiction rate never exceeded 0.5% of the population.

Marcia Angell, former chief editor of the New England Journal of Medicine reported that hospitalized chronic pain patients given large, regular doses of morphine were able to come off without incident once their pain had resolved.

94% of people using cocaine in this country do so less than once a month.

The British Journal of Health Psychology surveyed 126 long-term heroin users in Scotland. They had levels of education and employment comparable to the average citizen (38% of them were white collar) ... none were homeless, HIV positive or had been imprisoned.

Alexander admits that a very small % of people are "addicts" but it is much less common than we believe.

(info from "Elle" magazine article, July 2007 on use of opiates for treating depression).

See also: http://www.josseybass.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0787946435.html

A Controversial Argument Against the Disease Theory of Addiction Diseasing of America is a powerful and controversial rebuttal to the "addiction as disease model" that many vested interests-including doctors, counselors, psychologists, treatment centers, and twelve-step programs that specialize in addiction treatment-don't want you to read."I found the arguments in Diseasing of America persuasive and carefully documented. While I find current addiction-treatment models helpful, I think it is critical to look at Stanton Peele's work to question our fundamental assumptions and adjust them on the basis of data."-Jennifer P. Schneider, author of Back From Betrayal and Sex, Lies, and Forgiveness, and member of the American Society of Addiction Medicine"A provocative review of the uses and abuses of the disease model in the past three decades. This important book has significantly added to my education and clinical understanding of addiction in my professional practice."-Richard R. Irons, M.D., The Menninger Clinic

What is the point of all this?

Think George, think!

In New York they have radically reduced the amount of street people since they have found ways to provide housing. Studies in the states have shown that where non-profit groups are allowed to develop housing alternatives for street people, it works vastly better than government programs similarly designed or incarceration.

Think, George, think! The clues are there.

What is the continuing "pain" our street addicts have? What if there were no "street" for their home? What if there were no societal judgement on their use of drugs? How many of them would meld into the regular population? Sure, a very small % would be thieves anyway but creating another ghetto in prisons (where drug use is rampant) is not the answer. Maybe we are looking at the problem with the wrong side of the binoculars.

Turn 'em around George. You can do it.

 

[georgebushmoron]

George, George, George.

You ignored my entreaty. That is not the lateral thinking I have come to expect of you.

Try some of this:

Bruce Alexander, PhD at SFU, Professor Emiritus in Psych has challenged the accepted dogma of addiction. He states there is nothing inherently addictive about any drug -- even opiates. "The vast majority of people will use even the most addictive substances, perhaps repeatedly, but there is no inexorable progression to hell."

Prior to the point at which opiates became illegal from the "temperance" folk, when opium was legal, the addiction rate never exceeded 0.5% of the population.

Marcia Angell, former chief editor of the New England Journal of Medicine reported that hospitalized chronic pain patients given large, regular doses of morphine were able to come off without incident once their pain had resolved.

94% of people using cocaine in this country do so less than once a month.

The British Journal of Health Psychology surveyed 126 long-term heroin users in Scotland. They had levels of education and employment comparable to the average citizen (38% of them were white collar) ... none were homeless, HIV positive or had been imprisoned.

Alexander admits that a very small % of people are "addicts" but it is much less common than we believe.

(info from "Elle" magazine article, July 2007 on use of opiates for treating depression).

See also: http://www.josseybass.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0787946435.html

A Controversial Argument Against the Disease Theory of Addiction Diseasing of America is a powerful and controversial rebuttal to the "addiction as disease model" that many vested interests-including doctors, counselors, psychologists, treatment centers, and twelve-step programs that specialize in addiction treatment-don't want you to read."I found the arguments in Diseasing of America persuasive and carefully documented. While I find current addiction-treatment models helpful, I think it is critical to look at Stanton Peele's work to question our fundamental assumptions and adjust them on the basis of data."-Jennifer P. Schneider, author of Back From Betrayal and Sex, Lies, and Forgiveness, and member of the American Society of Addiction Medicine"A provocative review of the uses and abuses of the disease model in the past three decades. This important book has significantly added to my education and clinical understanding of addiction in my professional practice."-Richard R. Irons, M.D., The Menninger Clinic

What is the point of all this?

Think George, think!

In New York they have radically reduced the amount of street people since they have found ways to provide housing. Studies in the states have shown that where non-profit groups are allowed to develop housing alternatives for street people, it works vastly better than government programs similarly designed or incarceration.

Think, George, think! The clues are there.

What is the continuing "pain" our street addicts have? What if there were no "street" for their home? What if there were no societal judgement on their use of drugs? How many of them would meld into the regular population? Sure, a very small % would be thieves anyway but creating another ghetto in prisons (where drug use is rampant) is not the answer. Maybe we are looking at the problem with the wrong side of the binoculars.

Turn 'em around George. You can do it.

I think, and this is what I think of your quotes: cherry-picked foolishness against the prevailing wisdom. Housing will only produce less street people because they are housed. But it won't reduce their drug addiction. That's a different story. Even if 99% who try coke or whatever never get addicted, the 1% left is what we see in a state of hell in the DTES. There is no denying that's what they are in. If you give them free housing, they'll just be physically cleaner addicts, but they'll destroy the housing you give them because 100% of the time they will be feeding their addiction. The point is to solve the problem through solving the addiction problem, not solving their housing or income situation. These people are in such dire straits that the only thing to pull them out of it is not accord them their rights to autonomy, but to recognize that they can not control themselves and must do horrible things to sustain their addiction and that they are on a downward spiral to disease, crime, violence and death. They are completely out of control, and the state is obligated to rescue them, and I believe it takes the state to take control out of their hands and administer strict regimens of separation from the drugs and the community which feeds it, and requires institutionalization until they can sustain themselves as productive free citizens.

The only salient point you produced worth considering is the nature of those who are in so much physical pain that they must be on morphine for extended periods, yet which somehow do not become addicted. Frankly that is difficult to believe, as I have known a good friend in her late 20's who had become addicted to the morphine she was on to alleviate the pain from premature arthritis. There are many many more accounts of those who have had long term illnesses that become addicted to the drugs. What you stated only shows that the nature of drug addiction has not to do with merely taking the drug, but that personal factors that have contributed to a sense of hopeless, despair and loneliness as well as the easy access and propensity to addictive drugs causing addiction. Nevertheless, once addicted, the first thing that must be done is to begin to solve the addiction before the rest of the personal issues. It is like peeling back the layers of an onion. So institutionalization will give them your beloved panacea, <b>"housing"</b>. Not only that, it will give them removal from the drug community, removal from predators, removal from violence, removal from drugs, engage in rehabilitation, and put them under the watchful eye of medical professionals, personal counselors, crisis managers, psychiatrists, career advisers, educators, and others who can really help them. What is the worth of personal freedoms to the drug addicts of the DTES? It only produces more tragedy and disaster; they are incapable of capitalizing on their freedoms to better their lives even if they were given free housing, because frankly they couldn't even clean their own fucking toilets.

You ask me to think, but your thinking is unproductive as it is incoherent and produces no solutions.

 

[dipitydoo]

a perfect example

gbm I think you ought to see other choices.

If any of you have not heard of San Patrignano in Italy, you should read up on it:
http://www.sanpatrignano.org/page.php?catid=249


If you bring the social outcasts that are suffering from marginalization into an environment where they can become socially accepted and where growth is not only an option, but a reality, the drug addiction problem will cease.

Give their site a good read and look at what they have been doing for years, and tell me what you think. This is not BS from a freakin' university study, it is real-life results.

 

[georgebushmoron]

gbm I think you ought to see other choices.

If any of you have not heard of San Patrignano in Italy, you should read up on it:
http://www.sanpatrignano.org/page.php?catid=249


If you bring the social outcasts that are suffering from marginalization into an environment where they can become socially accepted and where growth is not only an option, but a reality, the drug addiction problem will cease.

Give their site a good read and look at what they have been doing for years, and tell me what you think. This is not BS from a freakin' university study, it is real-life results.

Thank you for the link. It is definitely interesting! What happens when these people have been cured from their addiction and happen upon the drug community they left? Do they re-enter the downward spiral of addiction again? I ask these questions not in retort to the link you gave, but rhetorically to generate thought about what to do with the DTES even if many druggies are saved. Anyways, I'll keep an open mind so long as posters are kind enough to present viable options rather than the unrealism coming from the ivory tower, and so long as they don't find it necessary to post in condescending tones as though they actually knew something worthy.

As a side note, it looks like this place would be a great idea as the "institution" I'd like to see be put in place. However, they do it on a voluntary basis. I would like to see the government get involved and round up the drug addicts and make it mandatory. So the only real difference between what you posted and what I would want is the level of government involvement and the type of compliance by drug addicts.

 

[dipitydoo]

As a side note, it looks like this place would be a great idea as the "institution" I'd like to see be put in place. However, they do it on a voluntary basis. I would like to see the government get involved and round up the drug addicts and make it mandatory. So the only real difference between what you posted and what I would want is the level of government involvement and the type of compliance by drug addicts.

I think part of the success of this approach is the fact that it is a COMMUNITY, and not an institution. People who work there do it because they seriously believe that what they are doing is going to make a difference and that it is their "calling" if you want to say it that way. The patients who get accepted are accepted free of charge, and that includes their families if they have one. That is also part of the success: the human aspect.
On the other hand with what you suggest, as soon as you create a government INSTITUTION, with government workers, the whole atmosphere changes. Nothing against government workers but that's just how it is. The obvious connotations and negative elements associated with an institution are a great element to fight.

And the fact that you want to make it mandatory after "rounding them all up", is also another recipe for failure. At San Patrignano drug addicts get accepted after an initial meeting with the head of the community, (not some random employee who's there to collect a check) and the patients themselves decide after having that introduction whether or not they want to take part in the program.

You see, the problem with a lot of addicts in the DTES is not only that they are addicted to drugs, but that they are ALSO suffering from mental illness and that makes things so much more difficult.

The driving force to defeat the addiction has to come from INSIDE the person who is afflicted, and in my opinion the main source of a lot of really harsh "social cancers" are our modern society where the human element has been so twisted, mangled and torn to shreds, that there is nowhere to hang on to for anyone wanting to have a little support, starting with the absence of a strong family figure. When everything is about Me, Me, Me... all problems that afflict society are someone else's problems. Everyone is too busy with themselves and have no education nor desire to look after the things that affect other people which in turn affect everyone else.

 

[metoo113]

$1.6B is not going to solve the drug problem, nor will it solve the homeless problem due to the causes there. What will solve the problem is a change of law at the highest level first - curbing personal freedoms as it has been done in the United States under the Patriot Act. With that, round up all the addicts and lock them up in an institution indefinitely until they are no longer addicts, or alive. The $1.6B on the Olympics is an investment in the future economy of BC, just as Skytrain and Expo were.

Sounds a little too much like another solution that a man named Adolf tried to do.

 

[LaCreme]

I think part of the success of this approach is

i like what you worte very much. to make a difference to people life yes is like something cold or hot to drink depending on the element that healt us evey time we need it maybe that why i am so thankfull right now.

The obvious connotations and negative elements associated with an institution are a great element to fight. is very easy to be judgemental about someone we barely know because of something they had been like me raise by a state who tolerate such a behaving this country is not america i am canadian and they love us.. well i hope so . so i am innocent.

At San Patrignano drug addicts get accepted after an initial meeting with the head of the community.. lucky them no matter how much i try to become normal again in here in my french province. is not easy..

You see, the problem with a lot of addicts in the DTES is not only that they are addicted to drugs, but that they are ALSO suffering from mental illness and that makes things so much more difficult... i am addict to coffee, to cigarette, money, sex, shopping , travelling, fast car, love, internet, my phone and creation space, call me the way you want if that make u feel you as long i get all that.

When everything is about Me, Me, Me... all problems that afflict society are someone else's problems. Everyone is too busy with themselves and have no education nor desire to look after the things that affect other people which in turn affect everyone else. me me me look after people i like...busy surviving is nothing wrong with that. the have no education we all want education.. if education was a job i would be there everyday. if i am not strong enough to look after my own problem how could i help out someone else.. i do when i cant that all. i am generous as long i have everything (i need u )

 

[georgebushmoron]

i like what you worte very much. to make a difference to people life yes is like something cold or hot to drink depending on the element that healt us evey time we need it maybe that why i am so thankfull right now.

The obvious connotations and negative elements associated with an institution are a great element to fight. is very easy to be judgemental about someone we barely know because of something they had been like me raise by a state who tolerate such a behaving this country is not america i am canadian and they love us.. well i hope so . so i am innocent.

At San Patrignano drug addicts get accepted after an initial meeting with the head of the community.. lucky them no matter how much i try to become normal again in here in my french province. is not easy..

You see, the problem with a lot of addicts in the DTES is not only that they are addicted to drugs, but that they are ALSO suffering from mental illness and that makes things so much more difficult... i am addict to coffee, to cigarette, money, sex, shopping , travelling, fast car, love, internet, my phone and creation space, call me the way you want if that make u feel you as long i get all that.

When everything is about Me, Me, Me... all problems that afflict society are someone else's problems. Everyone is too busy with themselves and have no education nor desire to look after the things that affect other people which in turn affect everyone else. me me me look after people i like...busy surviving is nothing wrong with that. the have no education we all want education.. if education was a job i would be there everyday. if i am not strong enough to look after my own problem how could i help out someone else.. i do when i cant that all. i am generous as long i have everything (i need u )

Great English! But since when did you become suddenly fluent??

 

[dipitydoo]

gbm, I think something went awry with her quotes...

 

[Fudd]

Saying the problem with Vancouver East side is just drugs or mental illness is just too much of a simplifications. The problems are as varied as the people living in the area. Some have drug problems, others had mental issues and others are just down on there luck. What has to be done is to take a multi layered approach.

Treat the Drug Problem as a Medical Problem and Not a Criminal Issue
Some intitiatives could be treating the drug problem using a European approach and decriminalize activity. This will allow the Government to reallocate resources from drug enforcement to drug treatment with the building of drug treatment centres in the area.

Mental Illness
Instead of hiring more police, hire more social workers and mental heath workers to work with those people with such illnesses. Its much easier to prevent problems with social intervention than for the police to deal with it with violence.

Poverty
More training and work programs should be created for the marginized in our society. And if the public sector won't hire these people, the Government should give them jobs.

Violence
Anger management classes should be started at the community centres to help people who are living is some of the most worst conditions imaginable to deal with anger issues.

More Social Services and Money
More resources have to be put in the East side. Instead of wasting money on frivioulous Olymic games or Skytrain systems invest the money into the people. In the long run elevating the living conditions the the East side will be a benifit to all the City.