Canada and First nations people going to War??

[LaCreme]

When you are talking about 'rights', yes, legal rights are the only ones that count.

When people make the claim that they want to have the same rights as other people do, the ONLY way to determine what rights people have, is by looking at the laws (and constitution, which grants legal rights as well).

If it's not in the laws and it's not in the constitution, then it's not a right.

are you too daft to realize that?

wow JJinvan you seam to know the indian act by hart.. are you indian?
hey 4 more post then it will be the #200!!

 

[jjinvan]

Bill C-31 in 1985 basically put FNs as equal citizens with the rest of Canada, but the Indian Act still prevails over the Charter wrt FNs and the authority the govt(Act) has over them.

Could you point out an example of this? I looked through both the constitution and the supreme court case records and all I could find was examples where the supreme court said that the Charter DID over-ride the Indian act and other legislations with regards to FN peoples.

So, apparently the supreme court disagrees with you on that one.

 

[LaCreme]

Could you point out an example of this? I looked through both the constitution and the supreme court case records and all I could find was examples where the supreme court said that the Charter DID over-ride the Indian act and other legislations with regards to FN peoples.

So, apparently the supreme court disagrees with you on that one.

so it mean they dont take consideration of the indian act.. oh i see..
so how do we make the supreme court change their mind to help them?
if it is on the charter they must fallow it or is criminal

 

[maxxx24]

First you say that I'm wrong and the province does it all, even in BC, then you show that you know that it isn't the case...

The tribal schools out here are NOT terribly new.

And, to answer your question above, the answer is quite simple.

How do you judge the success or failure of a primary school education?

Hmm.. perhaps you see how the kids do when they end up in secondary school? How many of them eventually graduate? How many of them go on to post-secondary educations? Maybe compare between two different types of primary school education? Or is that just a dumb way to do it?

That is the indicator by which I say it has been a disaster.

As far as why goes, I don't pretend to have a degree in education, or to be qualified to analyse the curriculums in the tribal schools as compared to the regular schools etc etc...

But, I do have quite a bit of training in assessing the intellectual, social and academic development of children and in the effects of diseases, injuries and environment on them.

The FN kids who go to regular school (not band run tribal schools) do considerably better in secondary school.

No, I am not talking about the kids who went to residential schools. I'm talking about the kids who went to the same schools as the non FN kids.

Oh and by the way, you might want to read this:

http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/ross/archives/028719.html



So, BC is actually following the Kelowna Accord idea of making things worse instead of better, and extending the control all the way to Grade 12 (it was already there for primary school, as I said earlier).

There's plenty of links to sources in that article, in case your next thought is to question the source of the article. It was just the easiest way to link it all together.

And, if I recall, the same deal was more recently reached in Alberta, it may still be in negotiation though, I'm not 100% sure that it has been finalized there as it has in BC.

Next time you want to say I'm wrong and a moron who has no clue what he's talking about, you might just want to check and make sure that it isn't YOU who has no clue what he's talking about.

I don't expect an apology.

Like I said, the bill allows for new partnerships with FNs, prov and feds. Difference is that the FNs have a little more input. BC ed. still approves (has the final say) on what is taught in all schools in BC-same as here in AB. Ill say it again- BC ed has final approval and final say over what is taught in all schools in BC and same here in AB for AB Ed. The FNs have a greater say now in dertermining what they want their kids to learn and how its structured and delivered. Doesnt mean what the FN determined will be approved. They still cannot implement whatever they want. Thats what I stand by as it is fact. In some cases a band may be persistant on a certain course. the prov may say ok fine, instruction can be held, but it is not a provincially recognized course, so it does not go towards meeting the students educational criteria. Curriculum was determined, but not approved by the prov.

Thats what I said-where did I say that FNs schools were better than other schools through out the province-oh yeah, I didnt, because overall, they are not. Thats fact and is mentioned all the time accross the country. You didnt state why you thought they fail-now you have with what you see as someone involved in childhood development-thats fine as that what I asked. (Do you have hands on experience, or just training as mentioned above as those are very different) Im familiar with the problems and drop out statistics, levels of education achieved percentages, etc. effect the home life has, quality of teachers hired, quality of delivery of content, overall health, etc. But this has been known for a while too. The feds ultimately are the ones who put dollars towrads the schools-if the are so commited to meeting educational goals for FNs-at least here in AB-why do they give on average $6-8K less per student per year compared to non-FN schools? They, at the end of the day are still the final measuring stick if FNs are meeting educational goals from the services and dollars provided by them.

Never said anything about residential schools wrt to this specifically-I dont know what the stats were for 30 years ago.

And again, no there is no such legislation here in AB. Discussion has been held with the respective Treaty 6, 7, and 8 groups-thats it (especially as I am in the Treaty 6 region, I know for a fact whats going on with the local FN schools and how they operate). I have good contact with a few local MLA's too.

I know my facts are accurate and I didnt name call. I have direct, daily, professional involvement in many of the areas I have brought up, so Im confident in the content I provide. All you have demonstated is you have some knowledge in the social/development of children, inclusive of FN children in BC. You have clearly not demonstrated any knowledge whatsoever with reguards to how bands operate, their efficiency, and the day to day operating and living on a reserve. You dont know what happens with that or with the govt and prov. and municipalities at all levels-I do. So you beter watch the fluff and empty drivel you claim to be fact, when as with all your posts, it is only your opinion-or it that your professioal opinion and diagnosis doctor?

Go through these, its a little more formal than a blog:
http://www.fnesc.bc.ca/jurisdiction/index.php
http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/abed/

 

[maxxx24]

Could you point out an example of this? I looked through both the constitution and the supreme court case records and all I could find was examples where the supreme court said that the Charter DID over-ride the Indian act and other legislations with regards to FN peoples.

So, apparently the supreme court disagrees with you on that one.

I was wrong on that, but I said to my understanding. The Charter cannot take away or add any rights from Indians that are in the Act, and it cannot mess with the Treaties. So yes, FN do have the same basic rights of other Canadians-they just arent treated as such.

 

[jack9011]

do the feds contribute to bc schools????

The feds ultimately are the ones who put dollars towrads the schools-if the are so commited to meeting educational goals for FNs-at least here in AB-why do they give on average $6-8K less per student per year compared to non-FN schools?

I'm confused.. i didn't think the feds contributed to non FN schools (k-12). I thought that was a provincial thing. The bc operating grants manual for education states that the amount given to school districts for each full time equivalent student will be $5851 in 07/08. Of course there are extra funds for special needs and other special programs, but that is the funding allocation here in bc... so how can the feds give 6-8K less per FN student...

http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/k12funding/funding/07-08/estimates/operating-grants-manual.pdf

Jack

 

[maxxx24]

I'm confused.. i didn't think the feds contributed to non FN schools (k-12). I thought that was a provincial thing. The bc operating grants manual for education states that the amount given to school districts for each full time equivalent student will be $5851 in 07/08. Of course there are extra funds for special needs and other special programs, but that is the funding allocation here in bc... so how can the feds give 6-8K less per FN student...

http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/k12funding/funding/07-08/estimates/operating-grants-manual.pdf

Jack

In AB those are the stats I was given (but yeah the prov pics up everyone elses cost.) I will be able to present a more detailed explanation later when I talk to the person I got those numbers from. I dont know off hand what is included in that-so I could be wrong-maybe on that I interpreted it differently. Maybe things like enrollment numbers, transportation, teachers per number of children come into play.

 

[jjinvan]

The feds ultimately are the ones who put dollars towrads the schools-if the are so commited to meeting educational goals for FNs-at least here in AB-why do they give on average $6-8K less per student per year compared to non-FN schools?

I'm curious to know how you arrived at this number and what you are comparing exactly.

As far as knowledge of how the reserves work and the interaction between the government and the reserves, I admit that I haven't looked at what goes on in Alberta much at all. I've got a lot more experience and understanding of the situations in BC.

As far as the kids goes, I have a lot of experience with sorting out the causes of academic failure in children (but not the causes of failure in the schools), both FN and not. I've also got the academic background to be an expert in the area. When it comes to the health issues in FN kids, I've presented at conferences and published plenty of papers on the subject.

I think a huge part of the problem is a chicken and egg situation. Because of past behaviour by other governments, the FN people feel that the only way to not be treated badly is to have total control and do everything themselves, with the government paying for all of it and keeping out of the details. Their leaders love this idea because it gives them more power, and in many cases (but not all), more opportunity to fleece their own people.

Even if the leaders do have the best intentions, do they have the resources and economies of scale to make things viable? Often not.

Another aspect is the conflict of interests between what is best for the band, what is best for the band leaders and what is best for the children in the band.

 

[jjinvan]

In AB those are the stats I was given (but yeah the prov pics up everyone elses cost.) I will be able to present a more detailed explanation later when I talk to the person I got those numbers from. I dont know off hand what is included in that-so I could be wrong-maybe on that I interpreted it differently. Maybe things like enrollment numbers, transportation, teachers per number of children come into play.

Another thing to take into account, if it is true that there is a lot of the admin and oversight etc done at the provincial level for the FN schools.. who paid for it?

I think it would be REALLY hard to come up with numbers that compared apples to apples.

 

[maxxx24]

The education consultant that I got the number from was away for most of the day and has not got back to me,so Ill back up that number or retract it. And I have no probem if I am wrong, sometimes we get the wrong info or interpreted it incorrectly. Yes jj I do agree it kind of is a chicken and egg thing:many reserves do want greater control and or say, but they have to be able to follow through. It one thing to want the control, but what then when you have it? Similarly, its one thing to desire it, but what happens when you get it? A proper structure has to be in place and all bands need to take it seriously.

And I do 100% agree that not all bands and or leaders have the best intentions or even the ability to properly operate a band. There are soo many issues, so many personalities, and for some bands greater access to money. It takes strength to just lead the community and do what is right and do what the ppl ask of you to do. Running a band wholeheartedly and honestly is a tough, tough job from what I have seen. It is such a different political landscape than what most of us are used to also-craziness sometimes LOL. And yes only a handful of bands accross the country are variable economicaly to make real strides.

As far as I know, if there are admin. oversites etc like jj mentioned, the band through the INAC funding has to eat it.

Again jj, I honestly dont understand why you think most bands are so corrupt? Hey Ive seen it, Im not denying it-but it is the minority. Thats my last word on that and with the thread too, its been good one boys(and some ladies too) but Im done with this one-well Ill get the edu. info like I said, then im done I need to get out of all this serious discussion and back to what the this board is really for LOL!

 

[LaCreme]

yeah fuck that.. i am tire they give us Canadian hard time to go to the us..

i use to love American for their $**and great**loving sex now what the fuck is wrong with them now?? every body seam to be a terrorist now. including me a plastic sucker and a student**in Canada. moralistic , the power, the brain wash. nice car and bling bling..

if they don't want me there to shop in their country well bomb the shit of them again and again till they understand because i had a good faith to respect their laws and they didn't want to see it. . they where focusing on my wild sex life in allowed place in a bed room Canada.

they don't seam to understand people from today.. most of their laws are stupid and you know it. they when over the Bord with my finger print because i had with me 3 escort business card from a agency.. they did made a big deal of it. how million escort is in the Internet? how many million escort in this whole world? i had bad luck it doesn't mean i am a bad person. ill do anything as long if it fair and get me to get everything i need..

i am crying every time i see a Canadian soldier dying.. because we are not step up for war they have to borrow weapons..they do it because they have most of those young soldier nothing to lose like me.

i feel very sorry because i have good friends in the us. sometime you say stuffs you don't really mean it. well me too,,
after that bad news i went back to my old life and i did bring with me a amazing ( x,y,z) and willing to start a new life.

in god i trust please give me a second chance.

if you have any comment or any solution plz do

Lacreme

perharp : i am not banned for the usa for ever but the situation was a little dramatic as provocative writter i had to spice it