Hydrogen from Aluminum

[sdw]

The University of Perdue has demonstrated a method of making Hydrogen from Aluminum. This method could actually move us to a Hydrogen Economy in time to avoid the effects of Petroleum depletion.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070518/sc_nm/fuel_hydrogen_dc;_ylt=Ai.qLa5idibnwkAjQBMRWDXMWM0F
http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html

Jerry Woodall gives a presentation on the method here: http://hydrogen.ecn.purdue.edu/2005.10.28-Woodall/viewer.swf

The presentation takes 15 minutes, but is worthwhile.

I was sloppy in my title. What this process does is use Aluminum/Gallium Alloy pellets to break the bonds in water. This creates Aluminum Oxide, Gallium and Hydrogen. Think safe storage medium for Hydrogen.

The big problem with using Hydrogen is that it bonds with everything, doesn't compress for storage and leaks from all known storage. Since Hydrogen is a little flammable, that makes it dangerous. Think lots of Zeppelins all over the place.

The way people store Hydrogen is by bonding it with metals. This creates Hydrides that release the Hydrogen when wanted by the application of heat.

The problem is that most of the metals used are very active themselves. Magnesium and Lithium are both quite nasty if they aren't in an alloy with something else.

 

[LaCreme]

The University of Perdue has demonstrated a method of making Hydrogen from Aluminum. This method could actually move us to a Hydrogen Economy in time to avoid the effects of Petroleum depletion.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070518/sc_nm/fuel_hydrogen_dc;_ylt=Ai.qLa5idibnwkAjQBMRWDXMWM0F
http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html

Jerry Woodall gives a presentation on the method here: http://hydrogen.ecn.purdue.edu/2005.10.28-Woodall/viewer.swf

The presentation takes 15 minutes, but is worthwhile.

that very cool hydrogen from aluminum.. i hear about corn fuel have you?

 

[jjinvan]

Just to clarify...

The hydrogen is NOT made from the aluminum, that would be a pretty funky trick probably requiring a big nuclear reactor at the very least, and even then...

The hydrogen is made from water, which is broken down using aluminum/gallium pellets.

The problem is, you need about as much energy to produce the pellets as you get from using them so it's more of a storage medium than an energy production method.

That said, it's a much safer and more efficient and better way to power something, especially if you use a fuel cell to burn the hydrogen instead of an internal combustion engine.

So, as far as CO2 goes, it's a red herring because you would have to somehow generate the electricity to make the aluminum in the first place. Now.. if you set up a nuclear power plant and an aluminum smelter to make the pellets then you'd have a way to reduce CO2 production for vehicles.

 

[jjinvan]

With enough power, one can turn any atomic weight to any other atomic weight. We can turn lead into gold with atomic bombardment. We can turn gold into lead by changing the amount of protons in the particles nucleus.

The amount of power necessary to perform these functions, coupled with the amount of time necessary to complete the function, makes these functions all but useless at this time though. That is except for purposes of mathematical and theoretical postulations.

This is not news. We have been able to perform these functions for the last 30 years. We have postulated it since Einstein. We have proven it since the atomic bomb (nuclear electron binding) and the creation of elements heavier than found on Earth.

That's kinda what I said (you can do it with a nuclear reactor, theoretically)

But what these guys are talking about is just the reaction:

H20 + Al -> 3H2 + AlO3 + E

Basically turning Aluminum back into Aluminum oxide, the opposite (by a different pathway) of what they do at an aluminum smelter.

 

[sdw]

that very cool hydrogen from aluminum.. i hear about corn fuel have you?

There are some problems with using anything that can be used for food for fuel. The whole vegetarian argument is that it's wasteful to use corn or grain to feed animals for slaughter as food. The reason that so many in North America are fat is the amount of meat we eat. If you look at history, you see that the meat and grain eating nobles are fat and the root eating serfs are thin. The human body is actually designed to eat an omnivorous diet that is heavier on the vegetable side.

The thing that the biofuel people don't like to talk about is the energy input necessary to take corn, mash it, ferment it, distill the alcohol out and store the alcohol so that it won't take up water. There is much more energy used to produce the corn and then turn it into alcohol than the energy that the alcohol provides.

The other thing that the biofuel people don't like to talk about is the amount of CO2 that is created from the planting of the corn seed until the alcohol is burned. People would be better off with coal fired steam cars.

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

Interesting topic and a question I have that I only just thought of is in all
the topics discussed here about CO2 and it's supposed green house effect
why have we not talked about the real poison emitted by burning fossil
fuels known as Carbon monoxide?

Is this gas known as a "greenhouse" gas or is it just lethal to breath in?
And,does it equal the amount of CO2 expended when fossil fuels are
burned, like gasoline?

You just never hear much about CO, so thought I'd bring it up.


............QM'r

 

[sdw]

Interesting topic and a question I have that I only just thought of is in all
the topics discussed here about CO2 and it's supposed green house effect
why have we not talked about the real poison emitted by burning fossil
fuels known as Carbon monoxide?

Is this gas known as a "greenhouse" gas or is it just lethal to breath in?
And,does it equal the amount of CO2 expended when fossil fuels are
burned, like gasoline?

You just never hear much about CO, so thought I'd bring it up.


............QM'r

Here are 2 links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_pollution

In the lower mainland we occasionally get inversions that prevent the CO from rising and being dissipated by the wind. We have air monitoring stations all over the lower mainland and an air advisory is issued when the levels become dangerous to people who have respiratory problems.

Air inversions are a regular event in some American cities such as Los Angeles and people regularly die.

 

[jjinvan]

The other thing that the biofuel people don't like to talk about is the amount of CO2 that is created from the planting of the corn seed until the alcohol is burned. People would be better off with coal fired steam cars.

Wrong.

It is actually CO2 neutral. think about it a moment...

 

[jjinvan]

Interesting topic and a question I have that I only just thought of is in all
the topics discussed here about CO2 and it's supposed green house effect
why have we not talked about the real poison emitted by burning fossil
fuels known as Carbon monoxide?

Is this gas known as a "greenhouse" gas or is it just lethal to breath in?
And,does it equal the amount of CO2 expended when fossil fuels are
burned, like gasoline?

You just never hear much about CO, so thought I'd bring it up.


............QM'r

Depends on your car, the idea of the catalytic converter is to convert the CO to CO2 in the exhaust.

My porsche for example, emits about 1/100 the level of CO that is the maximum aircare allows.

The amount emitted it usually a LOT (millions of times) less than what is emitted at CO2

Also, 'CO poisoning' is a bit complicated, it isn't 'poison' per say, but the problem is that if you breath in CO, your body taked it up instead of Oxygen so you don't get enough oxygen and you suffocate. I'm over simplifying but it isn't classified as a poison.

 

[mick_eight]

Depends on your car, the idea of the catalytic converter is to convert the CO to CO2 in the exhaust.

My porsche for example, emits about 1/100 the level of CO that is the maximum aircare allows.

The amount emitted it usually a LOT (millions of times) less than what is emitted at CO2

Also, 'CO poisoning' is a bit complicated, it isn't 'poison' per say, but the problem is that if you breath in CO, your body taked it up instead of Oxygen so you don't get enough oxygen and you suffocate. I'm over simplifying but it isn't classified as a poison.

CO also is explosive, but only in certain concertrations,I forget the exact numbers, but its around 12 to 15 o/o only. people who die of CO look better dead then alive, nice rosy cheeks. I used to be on a rescue team and have seen a few. The hemeglobin in blood is attracted to CO more than oxygen

 

[sdw]

Wrong.

It is actually CO2 neutral. think about it a moment...

I have thought about it. You run a tractor across the field to plow the grass growing on it under, then you go over the field with a tractor pulling a harrow, then you have the tractor pulling a seeder, then you run over the field several times with various chemicals, then you run over the field with a harvester, then you shuck the corn, cut the kernels off the cobs, turn the stalks and cobs into silage, transport the kernels to a masher, etc

If the field had been left alone, it would have been taking up CO2 without interruption due to the grass and weeds.

The total energy cost to go from seed corn to alcohol is quite a lot. Most of the energy comes from running a motor. Most of the motors used created CO2 that the now bare ground isn't taking up.

 

[jjinvan]

I have thought about it. You run a tractor across the field to plow the grass growing on it under, then you go over the field with a tractor pulling a harrow, then you have the tractor pulling a seeder, then you run over the field several times with various chemicals, then you run over the field with a harvester, then you shuck the corn, cut the kernels off the cobs, turn the stalks and cobs into silage, transport the kernels to a masher, etc

If the field had been left alone, it would have been taking up CO2 without interruption due to the grass and weeds.

The total energy cost to go from seed corn to alcohol is quite a lot. Most of the energy comes from running a motor. Most of the motors used created CO2 that the now bare ground isn't taking up.

You could run those motors on the alcohol you make and still have plenty left over if you wanted to.

Also don't forget that the oil being used to make gasoline has to be shipped across the ocean in a tanker and then trucked around etc etc too.

Grass is a pretty sucky CO2 sink. There are much better things you could plant if that's what you want to do with a field.

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

Here are 2 links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_pollution

In the lower mainland we occasionally get inversions that prevent the CO from rising and being dissipated by the wind. We have air monitoring stations all over the lower mainland and an air advisory is issued when the levels become dangerous to people who have respiratory problems.

Air inversions are a regular event in some American cities such as Los Angeles and people regularly die.

Isn't CO the gas that is converted to ozone by sunlight and does good for
the atmosphere when it's way up in the stratosphere or some such, where it does it's good, but when bogged down at the surface this is what is part of that inversion layer and the ozone causes the brown haze we see on
hot summer days?


...........QM'r

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

CO also is explosive, but only in certain concertrations,I forget the exact numbers, but its around 12 to 15 o/o only. people who die of CO look better dead then alive, nice rosy cheeks. I used to be on a rescue team and have seen a few. The hemeglobin in blood is attracted to CO more than oxygen

Acute effects are due to the formation of carboxyhemoglobin in the blood, which inhibits oxygen intake.

Here's some info on what it does in the body and they state that CO
is a toxic gas so therefore I would say it's poisonous JJ.

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/co.html


...........QM'r

 

[LaCreme]

That's kinda what I said (you can do it with a nuclear reactor, theoretically)

But what these guys are talking about is just the reaction:

H20 + Al -> 3H2 + AlO3 + E

Basically turning Aluminum back into Aluminum oxide, the opposite (by a different pathway) of what they do at an aluminum smelter.

wow i am impress, i have good reason to come back in this thread.
now i must get a book and study about the topic. ah "just for fun to see if i like it.. that seam to be basic topic.. i simply feel a little retard now. i must catch on.i cheer up because lot of stuffs i know and you don't know and vice versa.