Kyoto? - lets be realistic

[ThighMan]

I'm assuming that you meant the 2004 election. The attached link shows the Liberals had seats in every province.

You are correct about Joe Clark. Just shows the value of checking formation rather than relying on memory.

My appologies, you are correct. I did check, but I was looking at a map (not wikipedia) and missed the urban ridings in Alberta, Saskatechwan and Manitoba.

However, I stand by my premiss that you cannot call the Conservative Party a regional party when the only provinces they did not get seat in the 2004 election was Quebec and PEI.

 

[curious yellow]

cy - As I expected you cannot even answer a simple question.

Well, it's not a simple question. What it is is a loaded, baited, manipulative, hypothetical question that presupposes the fear mongering is correct. At this point, this Kyoto thing isn't even law until the senate passes it, which they have not done yet. And just so you know I have this policy about not answering loaded, baited, manipulative, hypothetical questions such as this on. But since you seem so disappointed that I didn't answer your question, I've decided to have some fun with it and answer your hypothetical question with some hypothetical answers. Enjoy. I hope you have a sense of humor.

What would I do?

1. Just get another job, or go into business for myself. No biggie.

2. Hey, wouldn't have to pay any more taxes.

3. (This one's my favourite) I would take my last pay check and buy as many Super7 and Lotto 649 tickets as I could. As luck would have it the draws I bought the tickets for would both have record jackpots with a combined total of over $100 million. I of course would be the sole winner of both jackpots. To celebrate my win, I would rent out a penthouse suite at the most expensive hotel around and invite all the top rated sps to join me. Maybe even take some of them on a round the world tour. Any Ladies out there who would be interested? Hypothetically speaking of course.

There, I hope those answers will suffice.

The only con artists around are the Liberals and NDP who think that everyone should be supported by the government.

Interesting you should mention everyone being supported by the government, which has nothing to do with what I was talking about. But since you mentioned it, if the poor and needy can't be given assistance then that means certain others cannot be goven handouts either. Which means, no more corporate tax cuts. No more corporate subsidies. No more corporate grants or low interest loans, which they don't pay back anyway. Incidentally, people forget that the poor only get a small portion of government handouts. They forget that government handouts also fund parks and recreation, hospitals, health care, education, and so on and so on. All of which in one way or another all Canadians enjoy the benefits of.

If some bum comes up to you on the street and asks for money I suppose you give it to him.

Maybe I do, maybe I don't, that's for me to decide.

Me, I tell them to get a job and walk on.

You're just full of humanity, aren't you? Just kidding. Obviously I'm not saying you have to give anything to anybody, that's entirely up to you.

They put themselves in their current situation. It is not my fault nor societies.

To quote you from a previous post "Why don't you get your facts straight next time before just spouting off."

You need to do just that, get your facts straight. Most homeless have not chosen the situation they find themselves in. I could list off some of the reasons, but you wouldn't believe me anyway. So I suggest you seek out the research that has been done on this issue and get the facts.

Also, last time I checked India, China, Pakistan and Banglasesh were not part of the North America Free Trade Deal. But perhaps you have some more current information. LOL

I don't know where or how you got that I said those countries were part of the free trade deal, maybe you were reading something else and confused that with what I was saying, LOL.

Obvioulsy these countries are not part of the free trade deal and I never said they were. But these countries have certainly benefited in the process with jobs being lost here and shipped over to those and other countries for the cheapest possible labour, including literal slave labor, turning out the cheapest poorest quality merchandise the manufacturers can get away with.

Finally, it is obvious you did not read my opening comments. I never said we should not do anything to reduce our greenhouse gas emmisions. I only said that we needed to be realisting about how we went about it and not be stuck with an unrealistic and unachievable timeline set out by Kyoto.

Good to know. Finally something we can agree on.

 

[jjinvan]

As for the jobs created by free trade, where were most of then created? Hmmm, let's see, the USA, India, China, Pakistan, and Bangladesh come to mind.

Please explain how on earth NAFTA created jobs in India, China, Pakistan and Bangladesh. I don't quite see the connection there?

It did create one heck of a lot of jobs in Southern Ontario though. Or do you not know exactly who Belinda 'the dog' Stronach's father is and what his company does.

What is Canada's #1 export by dollar value?

Where does pretty much all of that go?

Hmm... Look it up.

 

[jjinvan]

But since you mentioned it, if the poor and needy can't be given assistance then that means certain others cannot be goven handouts either. Which means, no more corporate tax cuts.

...

Obvioulsy these countries are not part of the free trade deal and I never said they were. But these countries have certainly benefited in the process with jobs being lost here and shipped over to those and other countries for the cheapest possible labour, including literal slave labor, turning out the cheapest poorest quality merchandise the manufacturers can get away with.

1) Tax cuts are NOT 'handouts'. When you go into a store and something is on sale at 10% off, do you say "Thank you for the handout" to the cashier because she takes less of your money? If a thief steals your wallet and pulls out a $10 dollar bill and leaves it behind, do you say "Oh thank you for being so generous and giving me such a nice hand-out Mr Thief" ?

2) Please explain how those countries, which you admit had nothing to do with the free trade deal, somehow had jobs shipped to them from Canada as a result of the free trade deal. We're still waiting for you to enlighten us on that one.

 

[curious yellow]

Please explain how on earth NAFTA created jobs in India, China, Pakistan and Bangladesh. I don't quite see the connection there?

Simple. Prior to NAFTA, manufacturers that wanted to sell their products in Canada were required to manufacture those products in Canada. Thus creating manufacturing jobs for Canadians. Once NAFTA was put through, factory after factory began shutting down in Canada putting thousands upon thousands of Canadians out of work. Over the past 20 years hundreds of thousands of Canadians have found themselves without a job through no fault of their own. Many of those lost Canadian jobs were taken to the USA, and countries such as India and China. This is how those countries have benefited either directly or indirectly from NAFTA.

I know this news article isn't specifically about Canada or NAFTA, it's about the USA, but it does illustrate how jobs have and are being lost to countries such as China and India.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_bi_ge/changing_work_force

 

[jjinvan]

Simple. Prior to NAFTA, manufacturers that wanted to sell their products in Canada were required to manufacture those products in Canada. Thus creating manufacturing jobs for Canadians. Once NAFTA was put through, factory after factory began shutting down in Canada putting thousands upon thousands of Canadians out of work. Over the past 20 years hundreds of thousands of Canadians have found themselves without a job through no fault of their own. Many of those lost Canadian jobs were taken to the USA, and countries such as India and China. This is how those countries have benefited either directly or indirectly from NAFTA.

I know this news article isn't specifically about Canada or NAFTA, it's about the USA, but it does illustrate how jobs have and are being lost to countries such as China and India.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_bi_ge/changing_work_force

So...

removing duties from products MADE IN THE USA somehow caused companies to move their factories to China and India from Canada.

Isn't that just a wee bit of a stretch?

Also, how exactly do you explain that there are many 100s of thousands MORE jobs in Canada now than there were before NAFTA?

 

[curious yellow]

So...

removing duties from products MADE IN THE USA somehow caused companies to move their factories to China and India from Canada.

Isn't that just a wee bit of a stretch?

Also, how exactly do you explain that there are many 100s of thousands MORE jobs in Canada now than there were before NAFTA?

It wasn't just about duties. For example, prior to NAFTA you could buy a tube of toothpaste or clothes and the label would say "Made In Canada". How many products these days can you find that say "Made In Canada"? Very few and it's getting increasingly harder to find anything "Made In Canada". If the label even mentions Canada at all it's usually something like "Imported by" or "Distrubuted By" such and such company.

Read the article I gave the link to in the previous post. Those 100's of thousands of jobs you refer to are for the most part in the service sector. Again even though that article is about the USA, the same situation has and is going on here in Canada, only to a smaller scale in comparison to the US. Basically Canada is producing less and less and our economy increasingly is put into one basket, the service industry. What happens when the service industry goes bust? It will, it's just a question of when. We will have no other industries in Canada of any size to sustain our economy on. Try finding a job then.

 

[jjinvan]

Read the article I gave the link to in the previous post. Those 100's of thousands of jobs you refer to are for the most part in the service sector. Again even though that article is about the USA, the same situation has and is going on here in Canada, only to a smaller scale in comparison to the US. Basically Canada is producing less and less and our economy increasingly is put into one basket, the service industry. What happens when the service industry goes bust? It will, it's just a question of when. We will have no other industries in Canada of any size to sustain our economy on. Try finding a job then.

Uhh... what about the 1000s of new jobs making auto parts?

What about all the 1000s of new resource jobs?

What exactly would make the service industry 'go bust'?? It is one of the few things that cannot be outsourced.

I'd love to see you come up with an explanation for how NAFTA could make the slightest difference to my ability to find a job, yes, I work in the 'service industry' (at least I think of it as that since I don't manufacture anything or extract any resources or anything like that, healthcare must be a service industry?) Not that I am saying that because I'm safe life is good for all, but you tried to imply that I would have a difficulty finding a job.

As far as the economy goes, you do realize that we have a trade surplus within NAFTA, right? That means that we are exporting more than we are importing under that treaty, that means that we are bringing in more jobs than we are sending out. Sure we don't make a lot of toothpaste (I guess?) but we sure do make a lot of auto parts, and aluminum and energy and wood products and so on and so on...

But hey, I've always said that banning all imports from China and India would be a good step, heck we'd even reduce worldwide production of greenhouse gasses.

 

[OTBn]

So, like I said:

The current Conservative Alliance Party, ie: Harper's party, has no more similarity to Mulrooney's Progressive Conservative party than the Liberal party does.

I doubt that Harper is 'tricking' anyone into thinking he's like Mulrooney. Who actually would vote for Mulrooney these days? Not too many people.

how timely - seems Harper's a tad bit, uhhh.... inspired

Harper described his predecessor as a visionary who is only now being recognized for successes that once went ignored...
.
.
Harper drew parallels between Mulroney's government and his own. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070418/national/harper_mulroney_4

 

[jjinvan]

how timely - seems Harper's a tad bit, uhhh.... inspired

Harper described his predecessor as a visionary who is only now being recognized for successes that once went ignored...
.
.
Harper drew parallels between Mulroney's government and his own. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070418/national/harper_mulroney_4

They must have spiked the punch at that dinner...

I bet he woke up the next morning thinking "OMG WTF!!!"

 

[Mr.O]

citylover you are possibly the most ....

As a public service, I've found a purty picture that sums up the arguments of the "fuck science, we know what we know" crowd...

now they don't have to post anymore, and we can move on to better things. And even if they won't read it, they can at least look at the pics.

(Note this cartoon was published in 2004 & we're still hearing the same drivel from the stooges).

... brainwashed guy I've ever encountered in all my years on the internet!

You would be singing a completely different tune if you lost your job as a result of attempting to meet the ridiculous Kyoto emission reduction goals.

 

[hugedman]

cy - As I expected you cannot even answer a simple question. The only con artists around are the Liberals and NDP who think that everyone should be supported by the government. If some bum comes up to you on the street and asks for money I suppose .....

I think the only con artist is Harper and his Conservative party but still having the same racist, biggot, redneck agenda.
I would never vote for this lying party which is sending our Canadian troops to a suicidal mission...Afghan is a mission impossible...; as powerful as the Soviet was....they could not even win the war there...

BTW, harper is is riding on the success that the Liberal had left behind...

 

[Mr.O]

What your missing here is ...

Simple. Prior to NAFTA, manufacturers that wanted to sell their products in Canada were required to manufacture those products in Canada. Thus creating manufacturing jobs for Canadians. Once NAFTA was put through, factory after factory began shutting down in Canada putting thousands upon thousands of Canadians out of work. Over the past 20 years hundreds of thousands of Canadians have found themselves without a job through no fault of their own. Many of those lost Canadian jobs were taken to the USA, and countries such as India and China. This is how those countries have benefited either directly or indirectly from NAFTA.

I know this news article isn't specifically about Canada or NAFTA, it's about the USA, but it does illustrate how jobs have and are being lost to countries such as China and India.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_bi_ge/changing_work_force

... the correlation of what you are saying above with the affects of attempting to meet the EXTREME measures proposed by Kyoto.

"... factory after factory began shutting down in Canada putting thousands upon thousands of Canadians out of work."

This exact same thing will happen when the manufacturers still left here cannot afford to implement the new equipment & technology to attempt to reach the unattainable goals set out by Kyoto.

It is pure lunacy & the only people who can make any sense out of it...
are LUNATICS!!!

 

[OTBn]

So, like I said:

The current Conservative Alliance Party, ie: Harper's party, has no more similarity to Mulrooney's Progressive Conservative party than the Liberal party does.

I doubt that Harper is 'tricking' anyone into thinking he's like Mulrooney. Who actually would vote for Mulrooney these days? Not too many people.

how timely - seems Harper's a tad bit, uhhh.... inspired

Harper described his predecessor as a visionary who is only now being recognized for successes that once went ignored...
.
.
Harper drew parallels between Mulroney's government and his own. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070418/national/harper_mulroney_4

They must have spiked the punch at that dinner...

I bet he woke up the next morning thinking "OMG WTF!!!"

jj ... so ... you doubt that Harper is 'tricking' anyone into thinking he's like Mulroney

LOL - can a leopard really change it's spots... that Harper... he's crafty!

 

[ThighMan]

Simple. Prior to NAFTA, manufacturers that wanted to sell their products in Canada were required to manufacture those products in Canada.

Really? It seems to me that I can remember buying lots of items that stated "Made in X" where X was a country other than Canada prior to NAFTA. Infact, if I recall correctly (which I do) my first car back in the 1970's was a Mazda and none of the Japanese auto makers had factories in Canada back then.

Kind of blows a hole in "Prior to NAFTA, manufacturers that wanted to sell their products in Canada were required to manufacture those products in Canada".

As for your answer to my "simple question", yes I do have a sense of humour and of course it was a baited question? What fun is it if one does not ask baited questions?