Baby Boomers destroy the Health Care System

[marsvolta]

Generation Squeeze - Medical Budgets in an Aging Canada

not to mention doctors and hospitals that demand some sort of billing independence when they make all of their money from one client.

 

[MRGREEN]

Interesting information, clearly baby boomers impacting all sectors of the economy isn't a revelation.

I read a stat that us boomers will use health care resources more in the last 5 years of life than our entire life. Longevity impacts CPP and OAS the same way.

Maybe Logan's Run wasn't that far off base lol.

In so many ways the search for longevity is a fools errand.

 

[Cock Throppled]

Boomers have paid into the system. Many are also inheritors of money, and can afford to go outside the system, which takes pressure off the demand.

Immigration is the real killer. They haven't paid into the system, and are allowed to bring in family elderly members.

 

[marsvolta]

Boomers have paid into the system. Many are also inheritors of money, and can afford to go outside the system, which takes pressure off the demand.

Immigration is the real killer. They haven't paid into the system, and are allowed to bring in family elderly members.

Exactly not. Read the report.

The boomers used their political clout to ensure taxes covered their needs at the time while never paying forward for the health care they need now. And now they're retired and don't pay into the system at all but are the biggest drain on the system because they didn't have enough children to grow the tax base to cover it.

And yes, they can afford to "go outside" the system... But why do that when you feel you "paid into the system" so you're entitled to the free stuff.

 

[LizzieBox]

Boomers have paid into the system. Many are also inheritors of money, and can afford to go outside the system, which takes pressure off the demand.

Immigration is the real killer. They haven't paid into the system, and are allowed to bring in family elderly members.

There is a very small portion of immigrant who can get their parents residence though, in most cases the parents need to be covered through private insurance.
All meanwhile the effective tax rate has double since the boomers were "paying into the system". Healthcare is more expensive, the lack of funding and hospital constructions has made getting into medicine ridiculously difficult, and the senior population is booming. Most of whom are rely on their pension and are nowhere near independent to pay in the private sector.

 

[sealion of bc]

Exactly not. Read the report.

The boomers used their political clout to ensure taxes covered their needs at the time while never paying forward for the health care they need now. And now they're retired and don't pay into the system at all but are the biggest drain on the system because they didn't have enough children to grow the tax base to cover it.

And yes, they can afford to "go outside" the system... But why do that when you feel you "paid into the system" so you're entitled to the free stuff.

You sound like your never going to get old
Good luck
Remember no one gets out alive

 

[dave443]

Exactly not. Read the report.

The boomers used their political clout to ensure taxes covered their needs at the time while never paying forward for the health care they need now. And now they're retired and don't pay into the system at all but are the biggest drain on the system because they didn't have enough children to grow the tax base to cover it.

And yes, they can afford to "go outside" the system... But why do that when you feel you "paid into the system" so you're entitled to the free stuff.

I’m retired but I must be doing something wrong. I still pay taxes on my income. I still pay property tax. I still pay taxes on things I purchase. Every time I put gas in my car I pay taxes. Yes I collect a pension that I pay into and cpp I paid into for 45 years. There will be a few perks when I turn 65. There are no free rides unless I missed the memo.

 

[PuntMeister]

Truth is, the government did not ramp up for the inevitable boom, and everything healthcare is stressed as a result.

The real conspiracy is that the tax collectors are going to wait it out so as not to be caught with infrastructure and legacy costs needed to match the peaks in demand, instead of having a practical scaling strategy.

Now regrettably, a young family having a family doctor is a luxury.

Shameful for socialist governments to bite the hand that fed them and screw everyone else in the process.

Systematic failure.

Time for a full reboot.

 

[westwoody]

Truth is, the government did not ramp up for the inevitable boom, and everything healthcare is stressed as a result.

Manitoba has an inadequate doctor training system. But our government has pissed away $400 million on a bullshit human rights museum and another $400 million on a police hq that should have cost $100 mill max.

The issue is government and public choices spending.
Think about that next time some billionaire asshole wants the public to build a new arena for them.

 

[luvsdaty]

I’m retired but I must be doing something wrong. I still pay taxes on my income. I still pay property tax. I still pay taxes on things I purchase. Every time I put gas in my car I pay taxes. Yes I collect a pension that I pay into and cpp I paid into for 45 years. There will be a few perks when I turn 65. There are no free rides unless I missed the memo.

But,but,but,you get to ride BC Ferries for free now🤔

 

[Bang4thebuck]

Boomers have paid into the system. Many are also inheritors of money, and can afford to go outside the system, which takes pressure off the demand.

Immigration is the real killer. They haven't paid into the system, and are allowed to bring in family elderly members.

Not true... the boomers benefited from more favorable tax laws and all kinds of loopholes and tax planning schemes that are now closed, not to mention the massive capital gains they accrued on their homes that the government is now thinking of taxing for the younger generation. If I earned as much as I did now back in the 90s I'd keep way more after taxes. They also did not contribute enough to CPP as a generation and are getting a high return on their contributions vs the benefit received compared to what younger generations will receive. We are indeed footing the bill for boomers in terms of medical care and CPP income.

The best thing to do is, if possible, earn income through corporate dividends and not pay CPP or EI as dividend income is exempt, and, use the medical system as much as you can for preventative measures rather than waiting until old age. I dont care if there's a year or two wait list for a diagnostic or a procedure because im still young and not in urgent need.

Immigrants have to pay privately for insurance or get sponsored by someone who will cover the cost, until they are eligible for Medicare. Even then, they are working, often crappy jobs no one else wants, and paying taxes, to support boomers. What they pay is more than what they use as they aren't retiring anytime soon and don't strain the medical system as much as the elderly.

 

[Pumped]

Exactly not. Read the report.

The boomers used their political clout to ensure taxes covered their needs at the time while never paying forward for the health care they need now. And now they're retired and don't pay into the system at all but are the biggest drain on the system because they didn't have enough children to grow the tax base to cover it.

And yes, they can afford to "go outside" the system... But why do that when you feel you "paid into the system" so you're entitled to the free stuff.

One of the issues you conveniently overlooked is that doctors themselves contributed to this crisis.

1. They wanted to be 'independent' but the only client they have ever billed for services is the government;

2. Because they wanted that independence, they had a lot of ancillary costs: office rentals, staff, the need to save for retirement;

3. Many doctors have gone broke because of shitty investment decisions;

4. Many doctors are now retiring -- there are not enough new ones to replace them;

5. Not enough new doctors because the doctors themselves did not want the competition; governments took that as an excuse to not create enough seats for doctors. And even when people finish medical school, they cannot find a practicum to get their license.

6. "Boom, Bust, Echo" predicted this crisis 30 years ago and both doctors and politicians basically ignored it or made decisions that made it worse.

The solution to this is really to put all doctors on government salary. Send anyone who can WFH home and use the space for medical clinics. Get rid of the whole billing system. Give doctors a salary and benefits and pension and lower the costs of being a doctor.

As well, over the next 10 years or so, many 'boomers' are going to be gone and a lot of the current costs should go down.

 

[Cock Throppled]

If people planned for their retirement, saved and invested well, chances are many are paying more in taxes now, than when they worked.

We have had successive governments that spend to buy votes, rather than spending for future needs.

Not one government in BC or Canada has used our tax money wisely, to prepare for the needs of the future, so here we are with a broken medical system that refuses to change, and keeps digging bigger financial and service holes. Our system is based on the UK's crumbling model. There are more efficient, cheaper and better systems in France, Germany, The Netherlands, but we won't change. We have more adminstrators than doctors.

 

[Bang4thebuck]

One of the issues you conveniently overlooked is that doctors themselves contributed to this crisis.

1. They wanted to be 'independent' but the only client they have ever billed for services is the government;

2. Because they wanted that independence, they had a lot of ancillary costs: office rentals, staff, the need to save for retirement;

3. Many doctors have gone broke because of shitty investment decisions;

4. Many doctors are now retiring -- there are not enough new ones to replace them;

5. Not enough new doctors because the doctors themselves did not want the competition; governments took that as an excuse to not create enough seats for doctors. And even when people finish medical school, they cannot find a practicum to get their license.

6. "Boom, Bust, Echo" predicted this crisis 30 years ago and both doctors and politicians basically ignored it or made decisions that made it worse.

The solution to this is really to put all doctors on government salary. Send anyone who can WFH home and use the space for medical clinics. Get rid of the whole billing system. Give doctors a salary and benefits and pension and lower the costs of being a doctor.

As well, over the next 10 years or so, many 'boomers' are going to be gone and a lot of the current costs should go down.

Even with the current model, I dont know why doctors even bother working in Canada. I did not go to medical school, but some of my friends did. They now earn high 6, low 7 figures, in the US, but didnt earn anything until their mid to late 30s. If they came back to Canada they'd be fucked, as theyd have to save for a down payment and are "too old" for fertility purposes making it harder to start a family. I know top realtors and mortgage brokers who earn 2-3x more than successful doctors do, which is a joke.

We absolutely need to incentivize foreign doctors to come here and make the process easy for them. We also need to step it up with medical schools and residency placements. We need to empower nurses, pharmacists, and paraprofessionals. So many of these folks are just doing medical esthetics because its so much more profitable and less stressful than emergency or primary care.

 

[dave443]

But,but,but,you get to ride BC Ferries for free now🤔

Not till I’m 65. And only walk on Monday to Thursday. Still pay for the car. I’m not complaining and I agree the health care could be better. It’s too top heavy just like most government departments.

 

[Pumped]

Even with the current model, I dont know why doctors even bother working in Canada. I did not go to medical school, but some of my friends did. They now earn high 6, low 7 figures, in the US, but didnt earn anything until their mid to late 30s. If they came back to Canada they'd be fucked, as theyd have to save for a down payment and are "too old" for fertility purposes making it harder to start a family. I know top realtors and mortgage brokers who earn 2-3x more than successful doctors do, which is a joke.

We absolutely need to incentivize foreign doctors to come here and make the process easy for them. We also need to step it up with medical schools and residency placements. We need to empower nurses, pharmacists, and paraprofessionals. So many of these folks are just doing medical esthetics because its so much more profitable and less stressful than emergency or primary care.

Yup, and it's not just shit for foreign doctors, but one trying to move to a different province goes through hell to get there!

And while its great to earn 6 or 7 figures, if doctors got a salary, sick time, vacations, more money for specialities, and a pension, that would bump their 'earnings' as well. Equally, as more women become doctors, they want the certainty over the gross earnings.

I've written to various politicians suggesting that once someone is in medical school, they should get a stipend to offset their costs. The can graduate and work for the government (yes, pros and cons for everyone) and know that they can get licensed because part of the job is the ability to access a practicum.

No system is perfect -- never will be -- but ours could be much, much better.

 

[ChromeGasCap]

I am gen X, the forgotten generation.
There was a tendency to blame boomers for our problems also.
I can tell you that no matter who you are or what you circumstances, you have to play life to the cards you are dealt and don't waste time with the blame game.
Get your head out of your ass if you believe that politicians work to the benefit of their generation, as I can tell you it is themselves they work to benefit most. Politicians serve themselves first and the electorate second.

People forget that Canada was at a point where we were destined to go bankrupt as a country, and it was Paul Martin's fiscal policies as finance minister that pulled us out of that mess, that proceeding governments have put us back in that position, so the boomers issues were solved. Our current situation was mostly caused by young Trudeau; a modern problem and shouldn't be blamed on the boomers.

 

[bothro]

Oh God! Where to begin with this drivel! Paul Kershaw, Ph.D, is the sole author and the sole proponent for “Generation Squeeze”. The document is not peer reviewed and I see holes right from the start, beginning with Table two, where the analysis is “normalized” somewhat arbitrarily using the age group 25-29. But most glaringly obvious is the fact that “Boomers” must draw down their registered savings accounts (RRIFs) beginning age 71. The nominal rates of taxes on this forced drawdown are massive and unavoidable. I’ve done the actuarial tax modelling.

Since some here are wailing the shit out of us boomers, just an observation: while still working I couldn’t help but notice many of the younger employees abusing the system, taking full advantage of sick days, and when that was spent going on disability for some claimed mental health crisis. But heaven forbid I say anything lest it damage their fragile self esteem! I retired with two years—yes more than two years of unused sick time that I lost on retirement. And quite rightly so. It’s there for those who need it. And I never used EI. And when I turn 71, I will see my OAS payments entirely clawed back because of the forced drawdown on my RRIF. Meanwhile, I continue to support adult children financially because of their poor life choices and failing to follow my carefully offered advice on life. My first mortgage was 12.25% and I struggled just as hard as any of you dealing with making payments.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but I didn’t start this thread!

…formerly employed in quantitative sciences…

B

 

[bothro]

I am gen X, the forgotten generation.
There was a tendency to blame boomers for our problems also.
I can tell you that no matter who you are or what you circumstances, you have to play life to the cards you are dealt and don't waste time with the blame game.
Get your head out of your ass if you believe that politicians work to the benefit of their generation, as I can tell you it is themselves they work to benefit most. Politicians serve themselves first and the electorate second.

People forget that Canada was at a point where we were destined to go bankrupt as a country, and it was Paul Martin's fiscal policies as finance minister that pulled us out of that mess, that proceeding governments have put us back in that position, so the boomers issues were solved. Our current situation was mostly caused by young Trudeau; a modern problem and shouldn't be blamed on the boomers.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful post!

B

 

[bothro]

I have one other serious complaint: the model is entirely deterministic. He provides no attempt to model the uncertainty in key parameters and assumptions. In the period we find ourselves now-a-days, he Is attempting to model a situation that is clearly uncertain, without examining the uncertainty in the system. With all the powerful quantitative software and systems that are available (dare I mention AI?) it is unacceptable not to utilize stochastic modelling methodology.

What modern situations utilize probabilistic models incorporating uncertainty? Look no further than sports betting—which is why in the long term, you will never ever win at sports betting!

B