Vikings

[Swordholder]

I have been working my way through the series Vikings on Netflix and find it really interesting people's relationship with sex in that show and even though it is Hollywood, I think there is some really great things in there that won't "fit" with the current "reality" or understandings around sex... Remember that they didn't have the Internet or television back then ... If you read the book "Sperm Wars" and then watch the show... So much of what happens in the show relating to sex will actually make more sense ... In a way, it is a real trip and fascinating to look what sex has become and turned in to with television, Internet and porn since those times.

There is also something else really fascinating in the show with women. The women in Viking culture were a lot more free than women from Anglo Saxon/ English culture and their attitudes towards sex were very different as well... In the show, even though it was taboo for English women to admit it, you could see that many of them envied the Viking women (and also the freedom they had around sexual expression and in relationships and marriage)...

I also found it curious how nonchalant even the children were around sex... There was a scene when someone is looking for someone and asks their young maybe 12 year old son where his parents are - and he casually says "they are inside having sex" like it was no big deal ...

Kind of reminds me of Italy how kids are allowed to drink wine at a young age and Italians don't go crazy getting hammered the same way other cultures do when they turn 18 or 19 and interesting experience going into a bar in Italy and not seeing people getting shit faced...maybe it has changed but I noticed that when I spent a good amount of time there versus in England.

It seems when something gets labeled as taboo or wrong or not natural, that it leads to the manifesting of really interesting behaviors later on... There is a brilliant book on this written by a woman for women on this called "The Women Who Run With Wolves" by Clarissa Estes which talks about this and how suppressing or labelling wrong natural behaviors from a young age later leads to outbursts down the road...

 

[angry anderson]

I have been working my way through the series Vikings on Netflix and find it really interesting people's relationship with sex in that show and even though it is Hollywood, I think there is some really great things in there that won't "fit" with the current "reality" or understandings around sex... Remember that they didn't have the Internet or television back then ... If you read the book "Sperm Wars" and then watch the show... So much of what happens in the show relating to sex will actually make more sense ... In a way, it is a real trip and fascinating to look what sex has become and turned in to with television, Internet and porn since those times.

There is also something else really fascinating in the show with women. The women in Viking culture were a lot more free than women from Anglo Saxon/ English culture and their attitudes towards sex were very different as well... In the show, even though it was taboo for English women to admit it, you could see that many of them envied the Viking women (and also the freedom they had around sexual expression and in relationships and marriage)...

I also found it curious how nonchalant even the children were around sex... There was a scene when someone is looking for someone and asks their young maybe 12 year old son where his parents are - and he casually says "they are inside having sex" like it was no big deal ...

Kind of reminds me of Italy how kids are allowed to drink wine at a young age and Italians don't go crazy getting hammered the same way other cultures do when they turn 18 or 19 and interesting experience going into a bar in Italy and not seeing people getting shit faced...maybe it has changed but I noticed that when I spent a good amount of time there versus in England.

It seems when something gets labeled as taboo or wrong or not natural, that it leads to the manifesting of really interesting behaviors later on... There is a brilliant book on this written by a woman for women on this called "The Women Who Run With Wolves" by Clarissa Estes which talks about this and how suppressing or labelling wrong natural behaviors from a young age later leads to outbursts down the road...

I haven't met any Vikings, but I wouldn't read too much into a tv show.

 

[Swordholder]

I haven't met any Vikings, but I wouldn't read too much into a tv show.

The roots to viking culture are all over the world.... They had communities all over Europe during medieval Europe and genetics crossed wherever they were ....and always led to confrontation between their religion and values and Christianity especially around pleasure and sex (which was not considered a shameful or bad thing with Viking culture whereas Christianity held the opposite view). I don't know if there is a connection but I find it interesting that the Nordic countries are always rated the happiest on the planet and those are the places where women historical have had the most freedom whereas the countries that are in the worst shape are where women have the least freedom and often not treated well ...

 

[Harmony-bc]

I haven't met any Vikings, but I wouldn't read too much into a tv show.

I think you missed the point of his post and decided to be condescending instead lol.

 

[angry anderson]

I think you missed the point of his post and decided to be obtuse instead lol.

fixed it for ya.




Synonyms of obtuse
1
a
: slow to understand what is obvious or simple : dense sense 2a
He is too obtuse to take a hint.

 

[Harmony-bc]

fixed it for ya.




Synonyms of obtuse
1
a
: slow to understand what is obvious or simple : dense sense 2a
He is too obtuse to take a hint.

I definitely didn’t need my post fixed lol. But either obtuse or condescending works. Cause you’re kind of being both 💕

it’s actually a really interesting topic. I love history. I would have thrived in the Viking culture and would probably be burned at the stake in the British culture. All kinds of bad endings for me in historic Britain lol.

 

[Swordholder]

fixed it for ya.




Synonyms of obtuse
1
a
: slow to understand what is obvious or simple : dense sense 2a
He is too obtuse to take a hint.

That's ok ... I don't think we are taught this as men anywhere (certainly not in school and for the most part parents are blind about this sort of thing as well)... Everyone just doing the best they can and no one's fault...

I think the only reason I bumped into it is due to being interested in learning more about women and found them to be great teachers and patient with me when I took a genuine interest in wanting to learn (which is probably really rare for a man to ask a woman for help wanting to learn more about women and taking an interest in their lives and how they experience the world)....

One of my other male mentors used to say "as a man, if you take good care of the women around you, they will take care of your retirement" ... I think it is totally accurate.

Same guy thought it was foolish for a man to choose women....as he thought women do a far superior job choosing the man than vice versa women don't just look at how he appears and the sexual aspect...but see way beyond that...

I think that is one of the big lessons that guys men are working out and probably one of the hardest in life for a man...Funny, I have been told this so many times, and also "don't be going and sticking your dick in any pussy that ain't yours" ( which goes against everything in this hobby but I think most men who do this hobby for awhile, while it may be fun in the beginning, arrive at this realization with time)... Funny because pretty much every well known guru or sage probably has said the same (not that they had it worked out themselves either... Even turns out Mahatma Ghandi had a thing for young women that troubled him most of his life - but at least he acknowledged that it was best to only go with the woman that chooses you and best to look beyond physical beauty and sex appeal to other qualities)...

It makes perfect sense and can say that so many of my problems in life originate from this - going with women who are not picking me and had not taken the time to get to know her better... But once you start fucking, easy to lose yourself fast and become blinded - and I know I start fantasizing and hoping how things could work out even when there is zero chance (and still something I am working out as well - and maybe few men ever work it out)...

I really only know of one man who actually did figure it out and he saw right through physical beauty and sexual appearance to who women were in their heart...he just really got women on a whole other level, the spot they are in, and the magical world they live in that guys are oblivious to - and pretty amazing when you get glimpses of it as a man (and women felt really "seen" and "heard" by him and absolutely adored him)... Which is really really rare for a woman to experience this from a man- and every woman wanted to fuck him...which was a problem but he was open about it versus pretending or hiding things...

Funny...this conversation is probably one of the last places it would come up... What is really interesting is that the guy I was referring to above worked as a bouncer in a strip club in his teens and I guess the women there took an interest there to show him the ropes early in life...he is not around anymore but interesting story...

My sense is I think many women would probably agree here with what I am saying... Although you might not hear it on this forum...

 

[Swordholder]

I definitely didn’t need my post fixed lol. But either obtuse or condescending works. Cause you’re kind of being both 💕

it’s actually a really interesting topic. I love history. I would have thrived in the Viking culture and would probably be burned at the stake in the British culture. All kinds of bad endings for me in historic Britain lol.

Have you read "The Swerve"? Amazing book that talks about how the church suppressed the world of a famous Greek Philopher named Epicurus (which may sound familiar since Epicurian is derived from this but doesn't so much have to do with food but he taught about going for pleasure in life... But not extreme unbalanced pleasure but pleasure in moderation... Even with sex since too much of that can throw life out of balance (and somewhere in there - there is a happy medium - which I don't think too many would disagree with). This was against all the doctrines of the Church which says that going for pleasure is fundamentally bad and wrong and humans are born sinners...The Church burned and hid all of Epicurus books, but there was a scribe of a deposed pope who found himself without work when the pope he served was incarcerated and he had access to all the monasteries in Europe...and was able to recover a book by one of Epicurus students that shared all the lessons of Epicurus...and much to the dismay of the Church, made and distributed copies of that book... showing how it is almost impossible to suppress human desire to go towards pleasure... another copy of the same book was found in the ruins of Pompeii...and that book was one of the things that inspired Thomas Jefferson and even inspired the US Constitution...

You see the juxtaposition of two worlds in the book ... The Vikings probably would have been more in line with Epicurus since they didn't have the same "charge" as the Christians at that time I would imagine. . . certainly a fascinating piece of history...

 

[Pumped]

I think you missed the point of his post and decided to be condescending instead lol.

While the series is entertaining, and likely has some factual information to share, taking all of it as historically accurate is definitely a stretch.

Historians get things wrong all the time, and most TV shows are more entertaining than informative.

 

[Uncled]

Led Zeppelin’s “Immigrant Song” in Old Norse:

 

[Bang4thebuck]

That's ok ... I don't think we are taught this as men anywhere (certainly not in school and for the most part parents are blind about this sort of thing as well)... Everyone just doing the best they can and no one's fault...

I think the only reason I bumped into it is due to being interested in learning more about women and found them to be great teachers and patient with me when I took a genuine interest in wanting to learn (which is probably really rare for a man to ask a woman for help wanting to learn more about women and taking an interest in their lives and how they experience the world)....

One of my other male mentors used to say "as a man, if you take good care of the women around you, they will take care of your retirement" ... I think it is totally accurate.

Same guy thought it was foolish for a man to choose women....as he thought women do a far superior job choosing the man than vice versa women don't just look at how he appears and the sexual aspect...but see way beyond that...

I think that is one of the big lessons that guys men are working out and probably one of the hardest in life for a man...Funny, I have been told this so many times, and also "don't be going and sticking your dick in any pussy that ain't yours" ( which goes against everything in this hobby but I think most men who do this hobby for awhile, while it may be fun in the beginning, arrive at this realization with time)... Funny because pretty much every well known guru or sage probably has said the same (not that they had it worked out themselves either... Even turns out Mahatma Ghandi had a thing for young women that troubled him most of his life - but at least he acknowledged that it was best to only go with the woman that chooses you and best to look beyond physical beauty and sex appeal to other qualities)...

It makes perfect sense and can say that so many of my problems in life originate from this - going with women who are not picking me and had not taken the time to get to know her better... But once you start fucking, easy to lose yourself fast and become blinded - and I know I start fantasizing and hoping how things could work out even when there is zero chance (and still something I am working out as well - and maybe few men ever work it out)...

I really only know of one man who actually did figure it out and he saw right through physical beauty and sexual appearance to who women were in their heart...he just really got women on a whole other level, the spot they are in, and the magical world they live in that guys are oblivious to - and pretty amazing when you get glimpses of it as a man (and women felt really "seen" and "heard" by him and absolutely adored him)... Which is really really rare for a woman to experience this from a man- and every woman wanted to fuck him...which was a problem but he was open about it versus pretending or hiding things...

Funny...this conversation is probably one of the last places it would come up... What is really interesting is that the guy I was referring to above worked as a bouncer in a strip club in his teens and I guess the women there took an interest there to show him the ropes early in life...he is not around anymore but interesting story...

My sense is I think many women would probably agree here with what I am saying... Although you might not hear it on this forum...

You seem like a very analytical person who views women as some idyllic mythical beings. They are not. They are human beings with faults just like any man.

You don't learn anything about women from just listening to them, you learn from listening to them and then judging them based on their actions and seeing how what they do lines up with what they say. You need to read social cues and body language. You need to spend time with women who are not paid to talk to you (sex workers, waitresses, retail staff, etc).

Even taking advice from other men, be careful, because their advice comes from their perspective (shaped by their world view which would be different from yours), of interactions with women that they are around (which may be different from the types of women you are around).

Anything in TV, movies, social media, whatever, is bulllshit designed to trigger your attention and an emotional response.

 

[Swordholder]

You seem like a very analytical person who views women as some idyllic mythical beings. They are not. They are human beings with faults just like any man.

You don't learn anything about women from just listening to them, you learn from listening to them and then judging them based on their actions and seeing how what they do lines up with what they say. You need to read social cues and body language. You need to spend time with women who are not paid to talk to you (sex workers, waitresses, retail staff, etc).

Even taking advice from other men, be careful, because their advice comes from their perspective (shaped by their world view which would be different from yours), of interactions with women that they are around (which may be different from the types of women you are around).

Anything in TV, movies, social media, whatever, is bulllshit designed to trigger your attention and an emotional response.

Women live in a very different reality than men...

They also have a different gig than men to work out this lifetime...

I never said they are idyllic beings... Just so much more than we could imagine as men.... If you remember the old 8 track music players...If you an I operate on two tracks, they operate on like 16 tracks...

Some examples
Men "occur" as being really "slow" and "unaware" to women... For them to hang out on a car trip with one man runs their battery down... having another woman in the car however they can groove off each other and the dynamic changes.

A room could have one hundred women in it, a guy walks in pissed off and wouldn't really affect the room... A room with one hundred men in it and a woman walks in, the whole dynamic of the room changes with all the men in the room ...

Women generally have more fun and live better than men...even the bag lady on the street lives better than the bag man...a guy can put together a house but mostly sparsely decorated..a woman comes around and can make it beautiful inside.

I had a women client who could talk with me in very detailed conversation while simultaneously keeping track of each of her five kids at the same time...blew my mind she could hold all that in her awareness.

Women can walk into a room of people and immediately know what's going on with all of them- who fought, who had sex, etc etc.,

they can tell within the first minute of meeting a guy if a guy has money, what's going with him, if he would get behind her goals, if he wants to have sex with her or know her in a different way...

they can do everything a man can do and a lot more... You and I get things done through intention... Women can do that too but also have something called desire... The ability to have something happen just through desiring it (but desire is not something that is consciously controlled. More like waking up wanting something... )

Guys walk into a bar thinking I am going to get laid tonight and almost always goes home drunk alone... A woman goes to a bar wanting to get laid and pretty much happens if that's what she wants...

Sure, they can be absolute monsters too ... And same goes with men... Although I am aware of both sides I prefer to see the good in them and focus on that versus the bad... I just have found them to be so much more than the physical aspect...

How do I know all this stuff... From a community that realized there is no educational out there to learn about the general "operating systems" of the different sexes and took it upon themselves to come up with a body of education on the topic as well as the dynamic between the sexes so there could be more empathy and people could communicate in accordance with the worldview of the opposite sex...and how they did this was looking at the common traits if you had 100 men or 100 women in a room and you studied and learned their traits, behaviors and skills over an extended period of time... All that I mentioned above incidentally was from a body of education primarily created and written about by women as well to help men learn more about women...

I used to promote events and found if a woman was interested in helping promote something, the event would take off last like magic, and be a huge success. If I did it all myself more often would be more of a grind...Had me realize that they can open a lot of doors in life and maybe getting to know them beyond sex an astute thing to do and just a lot that can be learned from them...

 

[Bang4thebuck]

Women live in a very different reality than men...

They also have a different gig than men to work out this lifetime...

I never said they are idyllic beings... Just so much more than we could imagine as men.... If you remember the old 8 track music players...If you an I operate on two tracks, they operate on like 16 tracks...

Some examples
Men "occur" as being really "slow" and "unaware" to women... For them to hang out on a car trip with one man runs their battery down... having another woman in the car however they can groove off each other and the dynamic changes.

A room could have one hundred women in it, a guy walks in pissed off and wouldn't really affect the room... A room with one hundred men in it and a woman walks in, the whole dynamic of the room changes with all the men in the room ...

Women generally have more fun and live better than men...even the bag lady on the street lives better than the bag man...a guy can put together a house but mostly sparsely decorated..a woman comes around and can make it beautiful inside.

I had a women client who could talk with me in very detailed conversation while simultaneously keeping track of each of her five kids at the same time...blew my mind she could hold all that in her awareness.

Women can walk into a room of people and immediately know what's going on with all of them- who fought, who had sex, etc etc.,

they can tell within the first minute of meeting a guy if a guy has money, what's going with him, if he would get behind her goals, if he wants to have sex with her or know her in a different way...

they can do everything a man can do and a lot more... You and I get things done through intention... Women can do that too but also have something called desire... The ability to have something happen just through desiring it (but desire is not something that is consciously controlled. More like waking up wanting something... )

Guys walk into a bar thinking I am going to get laid tonight and almost always goes home drunk alone... A woman goes to a bar wanting to get laid and pretty much happens if that's what she wants...

Sure, they can be absolute monsters too ... And same goes with men... Although I am aware of both sides I prefer to see the good in them and focus on that versus the bad... I just have found them to be so much more than the physical aspect...

How do I know all this stuff... From a community that realized there is no educational out there to learn about the general "operating systems" of the different sexes and took it upon themselves to come up with a body of education on the topic as well as the dynamic between the sexes so there could be more empathy and people could communicate in accordance with the worldview of the opposite sex...and how they did this was looking at the common traits if you had 100 men or 100 women in a room and you studied and learned their traits, behaviors and skills over an extended period of time... All that I mentioned above incidentally was from a body of education primarily created and written about by women as well to help men learn more about women...

I used to promote events and found if a woman was interested in helping promote something, the event would take off last like magic, and be a huge success. If I did it all myself more often would be more of a grind...Had me realize that they can open a lot of doors in life and maybe getting to know them beyond sex an astute thing to do and just a lot that can be learned from them...

Dude, I'm going to hard disagree with you on this. There's nothing special about women, or men. We're all just people. Yes, women are more than just objects to put your dick into, but you're viewing a whole gender with rose colored glasses. You seem quite naive, no offense, and pooning with that mentality seems very unhealthy to me and a sure fire way to guarantee loneliness and/or disappointment.

 

[Swordholder]

Dude, I'm going to hard disagree with you on this. There's nothing special about women, or men. We're all just people. Yes, women are more than just objects to put your dick into, but you're viewing a whole gender with rose colored glasses. You seem quite naive, no offense, and pooning with that mentality seems very unhealthy to me and a sure fire way to guarantee loneliness and/or disappointment.

It would be good to have some women chime in here about what I said earlier...but you may not necessarily get reality about it here because this line of business is setup to sell illusions and fantasy. I agree with you in that pooning is a setup for a life of being alone there is an expression that men pay for sex to make women go away, and I think there is some truth in that... I also am kind of at the end of that chapter in life and find it much harder to do and suspend disbelief when you can see through illusions...plus I think life is better for a man when you look to see how to contribute to women versus just wanting them for their body / as someone there primarily for sex or having the foundation of relating or a relationship based on sex...

One of the things I learned along the way is that relationships and sex are the domain and "real estate" of women - (they start, steer, and end relationships ... And we can see that with the example I mentioned about the difference between when a man and woman wants to get laid when going to a bar...

Also, to add another layer to this - in the beginning women approve of men and we go for it since we are approval junkies and want to win and be heroes for women, and how things end is when they take away their approval where a man cannot win with a woman (which is the biggest complaint of men that they can't win anymore no matter what they do with a woman), and we start to look elsewhere for where we can get a win...and from experience it is not something that women or men are consciously aware of that they are doing).

In the beginning, if a woman really wants a guy and turns it up enough, there is not much he can do except go along for the ride...of course a man can say "no", but if it is fun enough, pretty hard to say "no" . . .and kind of a joke thinking you have much control.

For that reason, I found the best way to operate is to look to see where I can be of service to women / look where you can contribute to them as a foundation to relating... Of course you could say it is good to contribute to everyone ( not just women)... but what I am really saying here is that women are kind of like the big dog in the equation and best to be nice to the big dog (as they can make life really good for you as a man if you put attention on them and contribute to them having a better life - which could be as simple as just taking some time to really listen fully and not try to fix or change them. Conversely they can make it miserable if you don't. . .

I get that all this might be really difficult to hear... If I said this in a room with a group of women around, they might not necessarily like the part about starting, steering and ending relationships - but the other parts about listening fully, being of service and not trying to fix - I guarantee that they would be nodding their heads...

Sex seems to takes care of itself when you come at it from that angle I am finding more and more...kind of rare for a woman to bump into a guy who wants to contribute to them as a first priority versus wanting to jump into bed with them - they can tell the difference right away and just know ... I know from experience that if you just take the time to just listen to women and not try to get anywhere with them, they often will want to have sex with you even when you are not asking for it...

It is kind of a joke in a way, there are opportunities around us all the time to meet someone to have sex... There is no scarcity of opportunities to have sex...I used to think the problem is "out there".... now seeing the only thing that is missing was some false perception / ideas I have that I am blind to (that originates with me)... I think the thing about wanting to be of service to women versus pursuing for sex is a game changer... As soon as you don't look for sex and not attached to having to have it, it just happens easily... Same thing could be said about money, the world is awash with it and kind of an illusion that it is scarce, and seems when you don't chase it and not so attached, it shows up so much more easily...

 

[Harmony-bc]

While the series is entertaining, and likely has some factual information to share, taking all of it as historically accurate is definitely a stretch.

Historians get things wrong all the time, and most TV shows are more entertaining than informative.

Of course. I think most people don’t go to tv as for their education about anything. (Maybe some do). But I think your comment was pretty unnecessary lol.

One of my absolute favorite genres of fiction, whether it’s tv, movie, or a novel is fiction loosely based on history.

for example, I loved the outlander books which turned into a tv show but I do not think a woman named Claire traveled back to 17th century Scotland and fell in love with a Scottish warrior.

 

[barnsworth]

Of course. I think most people don’t go to tv as for their education about anything. (Maybe some do). But I think your comment was pretty unnecessary lol.

One of my absolute favorite genres of fiction, whether it’s tv, movie, or a novel is fiction loosely based on history.

for example, I loved the outlander books which turned into a tv show but I do not think a woman named Claire traveled back to 17th century Scotland and fell in love with a Scottish warrior.

enough with the smarty talk...i watch GOT and Vikings cuz i like watching big ugly guys chopping one another's heads off with a ax

 

[Pumped]

Of course. I think most people don’t go to tv as for their education about anything. (Maybe some do). But I think your comment was pretty unnecessary lol.

One of my absolute favorite genres of fiction, whether it’s tv, movie, or a novel is fiction loosely based on history.

for example, I loved the outlander books which turned into a tv show but I do not think a woman named Claire traveled back to 17th century Scotland and fell in love with a Scottish warrior.

Exactly my point.

 

[Harmony-bc]

Exactly my point.

Your point was to point out the obvious, that everybody already knew?

 

[Pumped]

Your point was to point out the obvious, that everybody already knew?

Gatekeeping much? And what might seem obvious to some is seemingly oblivious to others such as the OP.

 

[angry anderson]