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USA Political Discussion Thread 2025

carvesg

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I am not even sure what the word Illegal means anymore. About half the country think entering the country with no rights to live here is OK, techically its illegal but its not. Or is it? WTF country do I live in? Seriously are there any other 1st world countries where someone desolute can come in and just claim I have a right to be here and my needs meet? I don't follow Canada politics much, but if I did that does Canada boot me out or not?
I hate cold weather and gray, rainy days and if I was to just leave I would choose Australia. Never been there its always sunny and warm right? and its a 1st world country. Do they have similar views as USA, where half the country wants to take in anyone and support them for life?
I will do almost anything to never see a PNW winter if its possible!
Australians think more inline with Canadians than Americans on social issues and healthcare.

Australians are more patriotic than Canadians ...inline with American marching band vs Canadian mutism (not these days though )

Kiwis have all kinds of privileges that allow them an very easy immigration process that you would not like based on what you stated in your comments.

Distances and travel mentality is similar to us North Americans as they are used to long distances with nothing in between.

More relaxed temperament than Americans and Canadians but they are as stubborn and independent in spirit as us.

Great sense of humour coming from those British descendants which have had that stoicism and unflinching spirit in face of adversity running through their veins ever since their prison colony days .
 

carvesg

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Most of what you said is spot on. In the short term, (18 months) some Americans will feel inflation pressure, afterward I believe the vast majority of Americans will hugely benefit from the Trump economy. I do not think Trump wants Canada in any way shape or form. However some family members live in Ontario and they told me there is a movement gaining steam for Ontario to become the 51st state. That is beyond my pay grade. As for the felon stuff, nobody has ever been convicted of that crime previously and nobody cares, Trump carried all swing states. Therefore your point is moot! If an agreement is not reached , it will take years, or maybe even decades for Canada to recover. No country has the buying power of the United States and currently the EU, South Korea and Japans economy‘s are not doing well. Look, I’m a business guy, business is typically dog eat dog. It’s about profit. International trade is now becoming business. Canada places tariffs on American goods to make the same goods produced in Canada more appealing to the consumer. It is past my expertise, but if all tariffs are removed from both sides, I believe the market will adjust and maybe prices will go down for everyone. Friends as you say should not place a 200% tariff on dairy products. I assume Canadian farmers cannot produce milk as cheap as American farmers. I just wish Trump would get on with it and stop flip flopping. Either do it, or not. The longer the flipping goes on, the more damage occurs.
5 % of Canadians have always wished they could become Americans which is nothing new ...it might increases but I see a lot of traitor comments for people supporting such ideas on social medias. So the backlash would be fierce in my book and feedback on this side of the country and what here from Québec. The booing of the American anthem at sport events in Canada (even WWE event of all places) helps you gauge where its at .

Dairy industry in Canada is mostly family owned businesses that make a living wage vs American farms that are more like a factory and employe 70 but could be as high as 90 percent illegal immigrants if you look at certain states . Sybian a well known member here could describe the ins and outs about how the two systems compare .
 
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UhOh

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Canada may as well remove tariffs on American milk as it won’t matter much anymore with Trump having deported US farm employees.
 
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carvesg

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Canada may as well remove tariffs on American milk as it won’t matter much anymore with Trump having deported US farm employees.
That's in hope that trump doesn't do a 180 degree on that file ...not that he is known to be a wind vane on litigious file
 
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Motorman

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5 % of Canadians have always wished they could become Americans which is nothing new ...it might increases but I see a lot of traitor comments for people supporting such ideas on social medias. So the backlash would be fierce in my book and feedback on this side of the country and what here from Québec. The booing of the American anthem at sport events in Canada (even WWE event of all places) helps you gauge where its at .

Dairy industry in Canada is mostly family owned businesses that make a living wage vs American farms that are more like a factory and employe 70 but could be as high as 90 percent illegal immigrants if you look at certain states . Sybian a well known member here could describe the ins and outs about how the two systems compare .
Maybe so, but a free market should bring prices down prices for everyone. Only the strong survive in the business world. Look at Amazon, shopping centers are almost a thing of the past. I feel bad for the dairy families, but I also feel bad for dinosaurs. It should be the consumer that wins. Yes deporting illegals will have an impact on prices, but do you know what the number one export in dollar amount is to Mexico? It is money, most of which has never been taxed. The medical and education costs to illegals far exceeds their economic value. Farmers and other industries will be forced to pay more and comply with labor laws, but the end result will cost taxpayers less. My business partner in California had to move his 10 year old from public to private school. The public school classroom had 42 students, 20% didn’t speak English. A classroom of kids can only progress at the pace of the slowest student. Everyone wants the best for their kids! This happened in Newport Beach California, a wealthy city just outside Los Angeles. Now think of less well to do neighborhoods. If I wanted to save the world, I would work for the Peace Corps. I know I appear heartless, but I am not. Unfortunately everyone was not born white, American or rich, sometimes life is a bitch! As an example, in the early 2000’s I was involved with a company named Blackwater. Yes, that company. I was around the corner during the Nisour debacle. My unit actually arrived just before the shooting stopped. Members of my brother team were sent to prison for something they did not do. That is a fact! Thankfully Trump granted them pardons…after years of imprisonment. Life isn’t fair, but that could have been me. In other words, life is a box of chocolates and it is difficult to eat all of them before they melt….my spin on the movie line.
 

GentlemanJack69

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Feb 16, 2023
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Most of what you said is spot on. In the short term, (18 months) some Americans will feel inflation pressure, afterward I believe the vast majority of Americans will hugely benefit from the Trump economy. I do not think Trump wants Canada in any way shape or form. However some family members live in Ontario and they told me there is a movement gaining steam for Ontario to become the 51st state. That is beyond my pay grade. As for the felon stuff, nobody has ever been convicted of that crime previously and nobody cares, Trump carried all swing states. Therefore your point is moot! If an agreement is not reached , it will take years, or maybe even decades for Canada to recover. No country has the buying power of the United States and currently the EU, South Korea and Japans economy‘s are not doing well. Look, I’m a business guy, business is typically dog eat dog. It’s about profit. International trade is now becoming business. Canada places tariffs on American goods to make the same goods produced in Canada more appealing to the consumer. It is past my expertise, but if all tariffs are removed from both sides, I believe the market will adjust and maybe prices will go down for everyone. Friends as you say should not place a 200% tariff on dairy products. I assume Canadian farmers cannot produce milk as cheap as American farmers. I just wish Trump would get on with it and stop flip flopping. Either do it, or not. The longer the flipping goes on, the more damage occurs.
I never said that friends shouldn't put 200% tariffs on products. They absolutely should. Tariffs are an economic tool used by governments to protect parts of their economies from globalization. Every country does it. We selectively protect economic assets to prevent the complete dependence on another country for that item. Canada does it and the USA does it. Tariffs or the lack thereof are the stuff that trade agreements are made of. What countries shouldn't do is illegally impose tariffs in contravention of trade agreements that were signed by their country (the current agreement between Canada Mexico and USA was signed by Donald Trump - touted by Trump as the best agreement ever - and now he says that only an idiot would have signed it (paraphrasing) *it was Trump that signed it*). The clause that Trump is using to justify abrogating the terms of the trade agreement is the clause that it may be done in the interests of National Security. I would be surprised if any rational person can explain how Canada poses a National Security risk that justifies ignoring existing trade agreements. Complete nonsense. Typical Trump alternate reality.

I noticed that although you addressed some of my points, you ignored the Goodwill assertion. Namely that by losing the goodwill of the majority of the democratic countries Trump has positioned the USA to become more isolated and resented, with countries unwilling to trust any agreements made with the USA as Trump has proven he can't be trusted to keep to his agreements. It's interesting that Vance and Trump were not willing to accept that Putin should not be trusted as he has broken his agreements in the past with Ukraine... as the USA is doing the same thing now.

You're right that he should either do it or not... obviously as Canadians we would prefer not. The flip side is the damage is already done. World leaders now know that Trump isn't trustworthy and by extension the USA. Back to goodwill.. what do you think? Is goodwill not really a factor? As a businessman Trump should certainly understand the power of brand and goodwill, he's talked often enough about the power of the Trump brand. Is the USA brand worth anything?
Even the largest economy in the world, much like monopolistic companies like Amazon need to be careful with their brand name. Piss off enough people and they'll take their business elsewhere as soon as they possibly can -- much like will happen to the USA as countries seek other trading partners they can trust.
The president of the USA used to be the leader of the free world,.. the home of the brave and the free... the land of promise.
Doesn't seem much like that now.
So, I ask again, Goodwill? you're not concerned?

Don't forget to turn your clocks ahead everyone.
 

Motorman

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Feb 8, 2023
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I never said that friends shouldn't put 200% tariffs on products. They absolutely should. Tariffs are an economic tool used by governments to protect parts of their economies from globalization. Every country does it. We selectively protect economic assets to prevent the complete dependence on another country for that item. Canada does it and the USA does it. Tariffs or the lack thereof are the stuff that trade agreements are made of. What countries shouldn't do is illegally impose tariffs in contravention of trade agreements that were signed by their country (the current agreement between Canada Mexico and USA was signed by Donald Trump - touted by Trump as the best agreement ever - and now he says that only an idiot would have signed it (paraphrasing) *it was Trump that signed it*). The clause that Trump is using to justify abrogating the terms of the trade agreement is the clause that it may be done in the interests of National Security. I would be surprised if any rational person can explain how Canada poses a National Security risk that justifies ignoring existing trade agreements. Complete nonsense. Typical Trump alternate reality.

I noticed that although you addressed some of my points, you ignored the Goodwill assertion. Namely that by losing the goodwill of the majority of the democratic countries Trump has positioned the USA to become more isolated and resented, with countries unwilling to trust any agreements made with the USA as Trump has proven he can't be trusted to keep to his agreements. It's interesting that Vance and Trump were not willing to accept that Putin should not be trusted as he has broken his agreements in the past with Ukraine... as the USA is doing the same thing now.

You're right that he should either do it or not... obviously as Canadians we would prefer not. The flip side is the damage is already done. World leaders now know that Trump isn't trustworthy and by extension the USA. Back to goodwill.. what do you think? Is goodwill not really a factor? As a businessman Trump should certainly understand the power of brand and goodwill, he's talked often enough about the power of the Trump brand. Is the USA brand worth anything?
Even the largest economy in the world, much like monopolistic companies like Amazon need to be careful with their brand name. Piss off enough people and they'll take their business elsewhere as soon as they possibly can -- much like will happen to the USA as countries seek other trading partners they can trust.
The president of the USA used to be the leader of the free world,.. the home of the brave and the free... the land of promise.
Doesn't seem much like that now.
So, I ask again, Goodwill? you're not concerned?

Don't forget to turn your clocks ahead everyone.
Poor writing on my part. I should have written a true friend would not place a 200% tariff on a friend. In local politics, goodwill is important, internationally not so much. I am fully aware of how tariffs are used and its purpose. Professional athletes and many businesses renegotiate contracts, it happens all the time. Normally because economic conditions changed. I’m sure there is more to it, but in this case, Canada, Mexico, EU and others find their economies struggling and Trump holds the cards. Always negotiate from a position of power. Last week, China hit Canada with tariffs on several products. It is due to Canada placing a 100% tariff on EV’s. Question for you. Is it goodwill that Canada only contributes 1.3% of its GDP to NATO? Is that being a good friend to the 27 other members that kick in at least 2%? In my world, Canadians know they can skirt the responsibility because it lives under protection of the United States. Your politicians should at least have enough goodwill to pay their fair share. They didn’t even offer to place peace keeping troops if an agreement is reached Ukraine. The point, goodwill goes both ways. IMHO, Canada has lived beyond its means and like a family on a budget, if the budget isn’t followed, bad things will happen. Trump is saying he will take advantage of it, just like Canada takes advantage of its proximity to the US. As for the leader of the free world, all dynasties in history have crumbled as I am sure the US will, but it will happen long after I am dead. I strongly believe Canada will capitulate, it has no other choice. However, if pride gets in the way, like Trudeau said, Trump has the ability to destroy the Canadian economy, which I doubt he will do. Trump may inflict pain, but it won’t benefit anyone if your economy is destroyed. Trudeau was just being a drama mama.
 

VanCityNewb

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Aug 3, 2015
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Poor writing on my part. I should have written a true friend would not place a 200% tariff on a friend. In local politics, goodwill is important, internationally not so much. I am fully aware of how tariffs are used and its purpose. Professional athletes and many businesses renegotiate contracts, it happens all the time. Normally because economic conditions changed. I’m sure there is more to it, but in this case, Canada, Mexico, EU and others find their economies struggling and Trump holds the cards. Always negotiate from a position of power. Last week, China hit Canada with tariffs on several products. It is due to Canada placing a 100% tariff on EV’s. Question for you. Is it goodwill that Canada only contributes 1.3% of its GDP to NATO? Is that being a good friend to the 27 other members that kick in at least 2%? In my world, Canadians know they can skirt the responsibility because it lives under protection of the United States. Your politicians should at least have enough goodwill to pay their fair share. They didn’t even offer to place peace keeping troops if an agreement is reached Ukraine. The point, goodwill goes both ways. IMHO, Canada has lived beyond its means and like a family on a budget, if the budget isn’t followed, bad things will happen. Trump is saying he will take advantage of it, just like Canada takes advantage of its proximity to the US. As for the leader of the free world, all dynasties in history have crumbled as I am sure the US will, but it will happen long after I am dead. I strongly believe Canada will capitulate, it has no other choice. However, if pride gets in the way, like Trudeau said, Trump has the ability to destroy the Canadian economy, which I doubt he will do. Trump may inflict pain, but it won’t benefit anyone if your economy is destroyed. Trudeau was just being a drama mama.
You're just repeating inane Trump BS. No nation is required to spend 2% of GDP on defense, and Canada has always helped to protect the US in every one of its dumb wars, whereas Canada has never needed to call on the US's military. It's Canada that has always been supporting the US, not the opposite. There's literally no basis to what you're saying.

Canada has followed a budget infinitely more closely than the US and it's astronomical deficit that nobody even pretends to imagine it's ever going to actually be paid off. Again, you're just saying things with no basis in reality, just to be saying them.

The US hasn't been the leader of the free world, and most certainly isn't now. Which is why Europe and other first world democracies are increasingly overlooking and not inviting them to much anything of substance that they don't need to.
 

Motorman

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You're just repeating inane Trump BS. No nation is required to spend 2% of GDP on defense, and Canada has always helped to protect the US in every one of its dumb wars, whereas Canada has never needed to call on the US's military. It's Canada that has always been supporting the US, not the opposite. There's literally no basis to what you're saying.

Canada has followed a budget infinitely more closely than the US and it's astronomical deficit that nobody even pretends to imagine it's ever going to actually be paid off. Again, you're just saying things with no basis in reality, just to be saying them.

The US hasn't been the leader of the free world, and most certainly isn't now. Which is why Europe and other first world democracies are increasingly overlooking and not inviting them to much anything of substance that they don't need to.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49198.htm

https://www.forcesnews.com/news/world/nato-which-countries-pay-their-share-defence

https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/oil-gas/canada-recession-headline-numbers-economists
 
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VanCityNewb

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Yes, as your first link points out, it's merely a guideline, it is not a requirement and there's literally no problem or enforcement measure for countries that don't live up to it.

Trump supporters really are some of the dumbest people on the planet and will believe anything the guy tells him.
 

marsvolta

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you kinda miss the point. recession is not the end of the world.

Trump is doing us a favour. we have at times even walked back our industrialization due to pressure from the US. so we were happy to sell our surplus goods and mostly just sit around for the past 80 years. Trump wants that to stop! not sure why because it has worked out very well for the US. its been mutually beneficial... we have a higher median net wealth than the US.

so we'll sink a tonne of money into our industrialization, forge new trading partners and develop our own military industrial capacity. why should we send $100B of crude to the US just so that they can create $300B of refined product from it? we have a bunch of regional industrial protections we'll get rid of... the fact remains that we have the third highest wealth of natural resources (after you ignore Saudi Arabia because they only have one natural resource) and a very small population. we are going to be fine.

and the US will get a recession for possibly the entirety of the Trump regime. i see the MAGA echo chambers are getting people ready for it. trying to blame it on Biden is ludicrous. Trump inherited the strongest economy in human history. he has this impossible dream that tariffs are going to replace income tax. that regressive taxes can replace progressive taxes. the billionaires dream. except he and his supporters can't do the simple math to find out that it doesn't work.

and this 51st state thing is a joke and i wish our politicians would start laughing in Trumps face about it. if the Russian army were to swarm into Ukraine tomorrow then Russia would bear the brunt of the next 20 years of having their entire military in the Ukraine attempting to just administrate... with a continuous insurgency going on. Putin has already given up on that prospect. if every Canadian wanted Canada to join the US then integration would take between 10 and 20 years at a cost of trillions of dollars. Trump will not be around that long. and if Canada didn't want to do it then the entire US military would be here for at least a decade administering the country. there wouldn't have to be any bloodshed. the costs would be enormous.

no, it appears that US population voted for four years of economic chaos. its only going to subside when Trump finds a face saving way out of his "gut reaction" economy... a childish solution to one of the most complex systems on earth. and if he doesn't find a face saving retreat then he will sink the US economy into depression because his ego is far more important.
 

Motorman

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Feb 8, 2023
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you kinda miss the point. recession is not the end of the world.

Trump is doing us a favour. we have at times even walked back our industrialization due to pressure from the US. so we were happy to sell our surplus goods and mostly just sit around for the past 80 years. Trump wants that to stop! not sure why because it has worked out very well for the US. its been mutually beneficial... we have a higher median net wealth than the US.

so we'll sink a tonne of money into our industrialization, forge new trading partners and develop our own military industrial capacity. why should we send $100B of crude to the US just so that they can create $300B of refined product from it? we have a bunch of regional industrial protections we'll get rid of... the fact remains that we have the third highest wealth of natural resources (after you ignore Saudi Arabia because they only have one natural resource) and a very small population. we are going to be fine.

and the US will get a recession for possibly the entirety of the Trump regime. i see the MAGA echo chambers are getting people ready for it. trying to blame it on Biden is ludicrous. Trump inherited the strongest economy in human history. he has this impossible dream that tariffs are going to replace income tax. that regressive taxes can replace progressive taxes. the billionaires dream. except he and his supporters can't do the simple math to find out that it doesn't work.

and this 51st state thing is a joke and i wish our politicians would start laughing in Trumps face about it. if the Russian army were to swarm into Ukraine tomorrow then Russia would bear the brunt of the next 20 years of having their entire military in the Ukraine attempting to just administrate... with a continuous insurgency going on. Putin has already given up on that prospect. if every Canadian wanted Canada to join the US then integration would take between 10 and 20 years at a cost of trillions of dollars. Trump will not be around that long. and if Canada didn't want to do it then the entire US military would be here for at least a decade administering the country. there wouldn't have to be any bloodshed. the costs would be enormous.

no, it appears that US population voted for four years of economic chaos. its only going to subside when Trump finds a face saving way out of his "gut reaction" economy... a childish solution to one of the most complex systems on earth. and if he doesn't find a face saving retreat then he will sink the US economy into depression because his ego is far more important.
Canada doesn’t even have free trade within the country, which is insane. I bet most Canadians don’t even know it. I also think you did not read, or comprehend the article I previously attached, which is written by a Canadian economist that spells it out in very simple terms.
https://smith.queensu.ca/insight/content/Chipping-Away-at-Canadas-Internal.php

The Canadian and American governments have gotten too big and powerful. Big government is not good for a free society, or an economy. Look at California, a 35 billion dollar deficit. I just discovered Canada has a carbon tax to penalize people that buy what they want. The government has no business in a kitchen. Now Carney may replace Justin. Talk about a present toTrump! Your economy is already running fumes, which is one reason the exchange rate is out of whack. Now I have a question for anyone, what is wrong with reciprocal tariffs?
 
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GentlemanJack69

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Feb 16, 2023
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Poor writing on my part. I should have written a true friend would not place a 200% tariff on a friend. In local politics, goodwill is important, internationally not so much. I am fully aware of how tariffs are used and its purpose. Professional athletes and many businesses renegotiate contracts, it happens all the time. Normally because economic conditions changed. I’m sure there is more to it, but in this case, Canada, Mexico, EU and others find their economies struggling and Trump holds the cards. Always negotiate from a position of power. Last week, China hit Canada with tariffs on several products. It is due to Canada placing a 100% tariff on EV’s. Question for you. Is it goodwill that Canada only contributes 1.3% of its GDP to NATO? Is that being a good friend to the 27 other members that kick in at least 2%? In my world, Canadians know they can skirt the responsibility because it lives under protection of the United States. Your politicians should at least have enough goodwill to pay their fair share. They didn’t even offer to place peace keeping troops if an agreement is reached Ukraine. The point, goodwill goes both ways. IMHO, Canada has lived beyond its means and like a family on a budget, if the budget isn’t followed, bad things will happen. Trump is saying he will take advantage of it, just like Canada takes advantage of its proximity to the US. As for the leader of the free world, all dynasties in history have crumbled as I am sure the US will, but it will happen long after I am dead. I strongly believe Canada will capitulate, it has no other choice. However, if pride gets in the way, like Trudeau said, Trump has the ability to destroy the Canadian economy, which I doubt he will do. Trump may inflict pain, but it won’t benefit anyone if your economy is destroyed. Trudeau was just being a drama mama.
A true friend would understand the reasons for tariffs before taking any action against them. A true friend would work with you to enhance the areas of common interest that you have building on existing relationships to strengthen both sides. A true friend doesn't arbitrarily decide that the street is entirely one-way and that only their needs truly matter. Pretty sure that the USA isn't a true friend at this point.

I think you're right in the importance of goodwill becoming more important based on the size of the playground being used. Goodwill and friendship is essential for small businesses and less so in international concerns,,.. but don't underestimate how the international community will react to the USA acting like dictatorships, siding with Russia.
True Trump holds lots of cards.. but forcing other countries to play with you ensures that we'll always be keeping our best cards for ourselves.

The USA is only interested in ensuring that other countries contribute more of their GDP to military because the USA is the number one provider of military products to the world, the biggest arms dealer in the world is the president of the USA. Please understand that there is a difference between not achieving a target in an agreement that specifies "best effort, or intention" such as the NATO military spending target (not budget - target), and a trade agreement that requires certain actions, or requires an action such as tariffs not be undertaken like the NAFTA (I know the name changed but can't recall the specific acronym Trump chose to ensure that the US was identified as the primary partner US something or other)
One is an understanding that we will seek to achieve a target, the other is an actual requirement. IMHO the USA's obsession with military spending isn't something Canadians want to emulate. As has been previously noted, Canada has assisted the USA in every conflict they've been engaged in... Canada has Never needed to ask for help.
You can feel however you want about Canada's spending priorities, I'm sure that we'll make adjustments to accommodate the bully to the south of us, but we won't forget that it was bullying and not friendship that caused the accommodation.

You're right that we will "capitulate" in one way or another but it will be on our terms. Trump needs a PR win and it's likely that he'll accept much less than we would otherwise be forced to agree to in order to get the public "win". Canada has one thing (more than one but one for the sake of this point) - the US doesn't have at this point. 95% of Canadians are united in disgust and derision for what Trump is doing. Some may feel that politically he is better than the Democrats, or that he has some valid intentions, but virtually all Canadians agree that some if not all of what he is doing is appalling.. and unlike Canada, a large percentage of Americans also believe that what he is doing (not just what he's doing to Canada but to the USA and the rest of the world) is appalling and disgusting. If the USA were truly the "United" States of America there is no doubt that Canada would be crushed in any disagreement, trade war, economic, whatever.. the USA is just too big in comparison, but that isn't the case. Trump is bleeding from a thousand cuts. He didn't just take on Canada, he's fighting half the USA, dismantling Federal departments, as well as Mexico, and the EU, and China, and BRICS, and... well pretty much everyone except Russia - Putin should like him at least. The USA might just be the biggest kid on the playground but there are a lot more of us than there are of him and Americans are going to keep getting kicked and punched as long as Trump continues pushing everyone around. Like I said previously,.. it'll be the average American who suffers for what Trump is doing, not the rich boys that are stealing as much money as they can, and getting away with as much outright crime as they can while Trump holds center stage with his Circus act.

Happy Weekend everyone.
 

GentlemanJack69

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Feb 16, 2023
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Canada doesn’t even have free trade within the country, which is insane. I bet most Canadians don’t even know it. I also think you did not read, or comprehend the article I previously attached, which is written by a Canadian economist that spells it out in very simple terms.
https://smith.queensu.ca/insight/content/Chipping-Away-at-Canadas-Internal.php

The Canadian and American governments have gotten too big and powerful. Big government is not good for a free society, or an economy. Look at California, a 35 billion dollar deficit. I just discovered Canada has a carbon tax to penalize people that buy what they want. The government has no business in a kitchen. Now Carney may replace Justin. Talk about a present toTrump! Your economy is already running fumes, which is one reason the exchange rate is out of whack. Now I have a question for anyone, what is wrong with reciprocal tariffs?
Keep in mind that the Canadian government keeps the Canadian dollar low in comparison to the USD to encourage US investment in Canada. It's an incentive not an indicator of economic distress. The exchange rate has very little to do with the economy. Compare the cost of any of the everyday items that measure inflation in Canada to the cost of the same item in the USA.. it's the same price only ours is in Canadian dollars. The only goods that are more expensive in Canada are those that the government is aggressively taxing to discourage.. alcohol, gas, cigarettes (and yes that is what a carbon tax is used for) etc. There are very few things that cost less in the USA when you factor in the exchange.

What is wrong with reciprocal tariffs?
The short answer is "nothing". There is nothing inherently wrong with tariffs, they're a tool to shape how our economies integrate into globalization without becoming overly dependent on other countries.
What Trump is doing isn't reciprocal tariffs. Trump is breaking an international trade agreement without cause, and disrupting normal trading relationships for entire sectors of the economy by setting arbitrary tariffs on anything and everything that he can think of for a sound byte without first understanding the impact these tariffs will have on his own country let alone others.
If Trump's economic advisors (real advisors not the unqualified people who nod and smile and agree with him whenever he says anything patently untrue and idiotic), were to advise him of appropriate tariffs to consider implementing, and sat down with negotiators from other countries to work out reciprocal agreements that benefited everyone that would be business-as-usual. That would make sense and be logical, even reasonable... something that Trump has proven he is not.

Instead we've got Captain Chaos and Minnie Trump,.. DJ and JD.

I still get a kick out of the fact that "Trump" in British slang literally means "To fart" or to put it more eloquently "To expel gas through the anus"
I literally grew up understanding that meaning as my family comes from the UK.

Cheers.
 

Motorman

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Feb 8, 2023
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Keep in mind that the Canadian government keeps the Canadian dollar low in comparison to the USD to encourage US investment in Canada. It's an incentive not an indicator of economic distress. The exchange rate has very little to do with the economy. Compare the cost of any of the everyday items that measure inflation in Canada to the cost of the same item in the USA.. it's the same price only ours is in Canadian dollars. The only goods that are more expensive in Canada are those that the government is aggressively taxing to discourage.. alcohol, gas, cigarettes (and yes that is what a carbon tax is used for) etc. There are very few things that cost less in the USA when you factor in the exchange.

What is wrong with reciprocal tariffs?
The short answer is "nothing". There is nothing inherently wrong with tariffs, they're a tool to shape how our economies integrate into globalization without becoming overly dependent on other countries.
What Trump is doing isn't reciprocal tariffs. Trump is breaking an international trade agreement without cause, and disrupting normal trading relationships for entire sectors of the economy by setting arbitrary tariffs on anything and everything that he can think of for a sound byte without first understanding the impact these tariffs will have on his own country let alone others.
If Trump's economic advisors (real advisors not the unqualified people who nod and smile and agree with him whenever he says anything patently untrue and idiotic), were to advise him of appropriate tariffs to consider implementing, and sat down with negotiators from other countries to work out reciprocal agreements that benefited everyone that would be business-as-usual. That would make sense and be logical, even reasonable... something that Trump has proven he is not.

Instead we've got Captain Chaos and Minnie Trump,.. DJ and JD.

I still get a kick out of the fact that "Trump" in British slang literally means "To fart" or to put it more eloquently "To expel gas through the anus"
I literally grew up understanding that meaning as my family comes from the UK.

Cheers.
The CAD is low because the economy is weak and stimulus must be injected. The only country that intentionally devalues their currency is China, but they can afford to do it. Many Americans approve and support Trump’s actions. There are no friends in business and this is business. Canada places tariffs on the US and hopefully soon it will become reciprocated. I seriously doubt many Americans will lose sleep if Canada is placed in a recession. Actually many Americans are offended that Canada is subsidized by the US. This is tit for tat, Canadians are not use to paying their fair share, which is the reason most up North are angry. Dear god, at least pay for NATO…..actually I think NATO is obsolete, but 1.3% is embarrassing. I know the war machine, which I agree to a point, but do your part and quit complaining about Trump and Russia. If Canada cared, they would pay to support NATO, but they live in the shadow of the American taxpayer. Pride will not put food on the table and an equal partner would support a common cause. I want lower taxes, you are fine with paying for those that do not pay for themselves and accept taxes for the good of mankind. We are obviously different, but that doesn’t mean we should attack each other. I was born in Ontario and still own property in Calgary. I made my money via capitalism, not socialism. My brother is a socialist head to toe and still struggles in Ottawa. Currently Canada survives on immigration, but in the long run, those immigrants will cost you even more taxes. You probably buy into the climate scam. To each their own.
 

VanCityNewb

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2015
1,052
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Canada doesn’t even have free trade within the country, which is insane. I bet most Canadians don’t even know it. I also think you did not read, or comprehend the article I previously attached, which is written by a Canadian economist that spells it out in very simple terms.
https://smith.queensu.ca/insight/content/Chipping-Away-at-Canadas-Internal.php

The Canadian and American governments have gotten too big and powerful. Big government is not good for a free society, or an economy. Look at California, a 35 billion dollar deficit. I just discovered Canada has a carbon tax to penalize people that buy what they want. The government has no business in a kitchen. Now Carney may replace Justin. Talk about a present toTrump! Your economy is already running fumes, which is one reason the exchange rate is out of whack. Now I have a question for anyone, what is wrong with reciprocal tariffs?
Just look at California! The state with one of the biggest economies in the world, and the biggest in the US! They could immediately do WAY worse if instead, they adopted the failed policies of red states that all of the blue states have to subsidize!

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

You have absolutely no sense of irony.
 

VanCityNewb

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2015
1,052
1,897
113
The CAD is low because the economy is weak and stimulus must be injected. The only country that intentionally devalues their currency is China, but they can afford to do it. Many Americans approve and support Trump’s actions. There are no friends in business and this is business. Canada places tariffs on the US and hopefully soon it will become reciprocated. I seriously doubt many Americans will lose sleep if Canada is placed in a recession. Actually many Americans are offended that Canada is subsidized by the US. This is tit for tat, Canadians are not use to paying their fair share, which is the reason most up North are angry. Dear god, at least pay for NATO…..actually I think NATO is obsolete, but 1.3% is embarrassing. I know the war machine, which I agree to a point, but do your part and quit complaining about Trump and Russia. If Canada cared, they would pay to support NATO, but they live in the shadow of the American taxpayer. Pride will not put food on the table and an equal partner would support a common cause. I want lower taxes, you are fine with paying for those that do not pay for themselves and accept taxes for the good of mankind. We are obviously different, but that doesn’t mean we should attack each other. I was born in Ontario and still own property in Calgary. I made my money via capitalism, not socialism. My brother is a socialist head to toe and still struggles in Ottawa. Currently Canada survives on immigration, but in the long run, those immigrants will cost you even more taxes. You probably buy into the climate scam. To each their own.
You keep telling the same dumb lie. The US is not subsidizing Canada, and you just sound dumb when you say this. Don't you get tired of being proven wrong again and again, yet continuing on telling the same dumb and blatant lies?
 

Motorman

Banned
Feb 8, 2023
148
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Just look at California! The state with one of the biggest economies in the world, and the biggest in the US! They could immediately do WAY worse if instead, they adopted the failed policies of red states that all of the blue states have to subsidize!

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

You have absolutely no sense of irony.
When I read your comment I was eating dinner and almost chocked. Because I do not respond to people who are obviously uninformed, or not economically educated, I initially did not intend to respond. However, because many people think as you do, I will educate you. The last I read, California is running a 35 BILLION DOLLAR deficit. The state runs a deficit every single year. For clarification, deficit means, it spends more more than it collects. What will happen if you did that with your checkbook? Conversely, Idaho……a deep red state, just passed the largest tax cut in its history. Idaho also recently implemented a property tax refund package that reduced property tax burden across the board. Now I challenge you to find one example that California lowered taxes, or refunded taxes to taxpayers?? Just one example! It is not how much you make, it is how you spend it.…..It is simple math and numbers do not lie. I actually still own a business in California, it has 42 full time employees. If I move it to Idaho, California will charge me an exit tax that will cost almost one million dollars. I am waiting for it to reach SCOTUS, before I make the decision to move. California also recently codified pensions of California cops are state tax free. Most cops that retire in California move to red states……for many reasons, but I suspect taxes top the list. I drove to California last week, homeless tents everywhere. I have employees afraid to go to work. California is a cesspool, but it has the 5th largest economy in the world! You can make a billion dollars a day, but if you spend two billion, you’re broke and pay interest on debt. Now I ask, what is your sense of irony?
 
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VanCityNewb

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2015
1,052
1,897
113
When I read your comment I was eating dinner and almost chocked. Because I do not respond to people who are obviously uninformed, or not economically educated, I initially did not intend to respond. However, because many people think as you do, I will educate you. The last I read, California is running a 35 BILLION DOLLAR deficit. The state runs a deficit every single year. For clarification, deficit means, it spends more more than it collects. What will happen if you did that with your checkbook? Conversely, Idaho……a deep red state, just passed the largest tax cut in its history. Idaho also recently implemented a property tax refund package that reduced property tax burden across the board. Now I challenge you to find one example that California lowered taxes, or refunded taxes to taxpayers?? Just one example! It is not how much you make, it is how you spend it.…..It is simple math and numbers do not lie. I actually still own a business in California, it has 42 full time employees. If I move it to Idaho, California will charge me an exit tax that will cost almost one million dollars. I am waiting for it to reach SCOTUS, before I make the decision to move. California also recently codified pensions of California cops are state tax free. Most cops that retire in California move to red states……for many reasons, but I suspect taxes top the list. I drove to California last week, homeless tents everywhere. I have employees afraid to go to work. California is a cesspool, but it has the 5th largest economy in the world! You can make a billion dollars a day, but if you spend two billion, you’re broke and pay interest on debt. Now I ask, what is your sense of irony?
So suddenly, the US's deficit doesn't mean anything and isn't indicative of any problems at all, and you'd rather focus on how much money they make...

Then California comes up, and you want to ignore how fiscally successful they are, and focus on their deficits??? 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

Please, make it make sense!

By your "logic", we should be back to pointing out that the US deficit means it's in a way worse fiscal position than Canada, due to the overwhelmingly larger deficit there. But no, you don't like Canada either, so suddenly deficits don't matter, and GDP does.

But again, that would require logical consistency. And you clearly care about neither logic, nor consistency.

And, just to underscore that point, you think that an entity with deficits, should... Cut taxes?!?!? Lmao! That just increases the deficit! Nothing you're saying makes any sense at all.

Also, California's budget goes through swings from deficits to surpluses and back again.

"It is worth noting that two straight years of historically large deficits come after similarly historic surpluses — California had a nearly US$100 billion surplus as recently as 2022."
https://www.arnoldporter.com/en/per...024/03/california-multibillion-dollar-deficit
 
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