WTF - Should cars have built-in speed limits? Some think it’s time!

[Robert Upndown]

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/rcna126053

I have owned fast cars my whole life. I currently own a CTS Blackwing. Speed and power is the reason we buy Hellcats, Blackwings, BMW M's and so on.
I could not imagine growing up with out the thrill of power and speed.

 

[rlock]

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/rcna126053

I have owned fast cars my whole life. I currently own a CTS Blackwing. Speed and power is the reason we buy Hellcats, Blackwings, BMW M's and so on.
I could not imagine growing up with out the thrill of power and speed.

Look at it this way:
Performance is the thing that sells - I guess you could say the image people want to project matters.

Pickup trucks & SUV's are most often owned by those who want to show off that whole rugged image, from outright redneck, to gangster roid monkey, to off-road adventurer. Well how many are actually needed or used for what they are built for? (Hauling cargo). The car industry created an artificial need for regular people to own large vehicles, basically out of nothing.

EVs / hybrids as just basic little cars are very efficient, but they had this aura of embarrassment in pop culture.

it was not until someone was able to make a EV that could blow a Mustang off the road that people got excited for them as a trend. (That would be the Tesla model S.)

Sports cars of any kind are much the same - way beyond people's needs. And considering how they are being driven, way beyond their drivers' capabilities. Truth be told, a person can go fast enough for a self-inflicted fatality in even an average sort of car.
My own car is average, but I find I can easily go faster than any local speed limit with ease. It does feel nice to go fast as you want, fast as you feel safe going (which for me it pretty damn fast most of the time), or at least to never worry about you car struggling over any hills.
Look at what they drive in Europe, and how fast they consider "normal" driving. There, you are not a sports car unless you can go over 200 km/h.

However, there is a big movement to pressure designers to install limits in vehicles, based on it being easier to do with high-tech cars than low tech ones. Automated driving systems might become subject to speed limiting behavior, but I can't see that working unless it was paired with some sort of networked traffic management system, linked to the vehicles. Imagine cars going exactly the limit, spacing out with each other automatically, merging on their own, etc. This is kind of what those "auto pilot" AI makers are aiming for, but I do not think that would be really working for many years.

If I were to say one aspect of road traffic might benefit from speed limiting, it is big trucks, not cars. Some of them are being driven as if they were ordinary cars, and never mind their extra momentum or difficulty turning. (Or them needing to stay out of the fast lane!)
But it is not unheard of for different speed limits on highways, one for cars, and one for trucks, buses, and trailer pulling vehicles. BC does not have that, but I have seen it elsewhere. (Could certainly help prevent some crashes in places like the Coquihalla.)

The authorities are always searching for a way to reduce traffic accidents & fatalities, but for all the speed traps, all the airbags, the auto-braking systems (actually unsafe by the way!), the basic element of "don't allow people to drive stupidly" seems to be where they always fail. It's more like they want to enforce things without making any actual effort to get it done. IF they were smart, they would be leaning heavily on dashcam-equipped traffic cops to roam around punishing stupidity instead of just speed.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

Look at it this way:
Performance is the thing that sells - I guess you could say the image people want to project matters.
snipped

Yes to much of the above. In addition,
The point that Bob may be alluding to (more than JUST the speed/power thing) and I get it whole heartedly, is that driving a performance vehicle has its own charm if you want to call it that. And that does not mean going FAST all the time or working on 0-60 in 5 seconds. Its the feel of the road, the response of the steering, the acceleration, and so on and on and on. Sure some get off on the image but if you are an aficionado, it becomes a personal enjoyment. Yes for some, power etc can be the goal but driving an MGB or way way back (as I did) a Fiat 124 Sport Coupe can be just as thrilling. Building in a governor? Fuck that. As soon as someone does that there will be a 100 guys working on a hack.

 

[Bobert1969]

.
Look at what they drive in Europe, and how fast they consider "normal" driving. There, you are not a sports car unless you can go over 200 km/h.
.

Most cars sold today can do that. But in general, cars today already have limiters built in with various limits set depending on the car. In is primarily for safety of the vehicle to prevent it from operating beyond what it was designed for but others have limiters (governors) that have higher limits. These can be and are disabled often with a simple ECU tune.

But a mandatory lower limit is out of the question, in my view. Driving is a privilege, not a right, and better education and stronger social responsibility is the key for reducing accidents. But you can’t fix stupid without including stronger cognitive and reasoning testing for the privilege of getting a license.

 

[MB Mod]

Let’s not forget what happened when Montana tried removing the daylight speed limit a few years ago, nobody read the part about driving in a “reasonable and prudent“ manner. Crossing the border at Sweetgrass I-15 was like being in a Terminator movie!

 

[westwoody]

Drivers are the problem.
I almost got ran off the highway by an Albertan construction company F250. The asshole driver was on his phone and wandering all over the road. He would slow down to 80 and then speedup to 130.
Once I passed him he got mad and sat on my bumper, at 120.
Typical big pickup driver.

Education doesn’t work on assholes.
Better training is not the answer.
The answer is permanent loss of licences and forfeiture of vehicle. No “conditional” licenses for work, everyone abuses those.
A lot of people drive without a license. The only way to stop them is taking their car.

 

[angry anderson]

Mine does. 95 corolla.

 

[LLLurkJ2]

Driving traffic is a negative sum game. For every idiot that shaves 2 seconds off their arrival by tailgating and lane cutting, everyone else takes 5 min longer.

What would be awsome though is if you're caught speeding or using the HoV illegally then your max speed gets lowered. I can see a few people with 30km/h max near me.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

Let’s not forget what happened when Montana tried removing the daylight speed limit a few years ago, nobody read the part about driving in a “reasonable and prudent“ manner. Crossing the border at Sweetgrass I-15 was like being in a Terminator movie!

Several states took away speed limits years back. New Mexico I think it was 1998, flew in to Albuquerque, rental car was a tank, Crown Vic as I recall. Got on the interstate headed for Santa Fe, was being passed as if I was standing still by everybody. Figured what the hell so took that land yacht up to 100. Made it to Santa Fe in half an hour. Walked in for my appointment and damn near passed out. Didn't realize there was an altitude gain or hadn't acclimated starting out. Anyway, folks on that road seemed have some sense unlike people 'round these parts. Remember the 120kph limits the Island, Coquihalla etc a few years back. That was I guess 'just a suggestion'. I think that may have been the catalyst to prompt ICBC to put in no fault.

 

[overdone]

The authorities are always searching for a way to reduce traffic accidents & fatalities, but for all the speed traps, all the airbags, the auto-braking systems (actually unsafe by the way!), the basic element of "don't allow people to drive stupidly" seems to be where they always fail. It's more like they want to enforce things without making any actual effort to get it done. IF they were smart, they would be leaning heavily on dashcam-equipped traffic cops to roam around punishing stupidity instead of just speed.

it's road design mostly

just look at the way they build, 2 lanes instead of 6, intersections every five feet, a light, a stop sign, differing speeds constantly

stupidity, sure, but first auto death, car was doing 4mph, fell out of car and got run over, lol

ask any cop, who isn't a lying sack of shit, they will tell you they could write tickets all day long, every day, it won't make a difference

then go look at deaths, accidents, demographics, it's safer to be on the road today

why, cause of car design, road design to an extent

statistically speaking, there is no real problem

like most other issues, it's a perception issue, a irrational emotional cripple issue

how many trips a day? how many actual incidents?

not worth talking about

and if everyone drove the limit, same speed, obeyed the law, forced to, you'd get gridlock

speeding is just part of the risk of driving, so low it's not worthy of idiotic nanny ideas like

this


how about we also force the idiots who drive way to slow to go faster? haha

 

[jgg]

Let’s not forget what happened when Montana tried removing the daylight speed limit a few years ago, nobody read the part about driving in a “reasonable and prudent“ manner. Crossing the border at Sweetgrass I-15 was like being in a Terminator movie!

I once recieved an 'energy conservation citation' for going 85 mph on two lane, #2 highway. $5.00 fine. Deputy told he would nail my ass to one off the multitude of road side memorials if he caught me at night.

 

[luvsdaty]

Nothing worse than some holier than thou wanker in the passing lane doing the speed limit with another vehicle in the slow lane matching each others speed

 

[jgg]

Nothing worse than some holier than thou wanker in the passing lane doing the speed limit with another vehicle in the slow lane matching each others speed

Two semis speed limiters out at 97 and 96 trying to pass.

 

[Banged_Up]

I often compare it to something people can relate it to. I drive a Jeep (20 years old) and most of the guys I work with are gearheads of one sort or the other (including a semi-pro drift car driver).
The speed limits are 100-120 kph across Canada. Above that and it’s illegal.
So I compare it to having a 12” cock and a 4 foot tall girlfriend. What’s the point? You’re never gonna bury it (safely). I have a Jeep and a 7” cock, I can go anywhere I want. Maybe not as fast as you but definitely farther and deeper into the bush.
Horsepower is the issue. No one under the age of 25 has the maturity to handle high performance vehicles, so limit their access to HP. If you are under 25 you can’t drive anything with more than X amount HP.
A 21 year old can’t make mature responsible decisions regarding the safety of others so don’t let them have high end vehicles.

 

[rlock]

Nothing worse than some holier than thou wanker in the passing lane doing the speed limit with another vehicle in the slow lane matching each others speed

Two semis speed limiters out at 97 and 96 trying to pass.

Ah, yes, the dreaded "turtle race", where two big rigs occupy two different lanes while going almost the same speed. Can see that on highway 1, or just Knight Street sometimes. (I've even seen a 3 truck 3 lane turtle race going on.)

 

[rlock]

A 21 year old can’t make mature responsible decisions regarding the safety of others so don’t let them have high end vehicles.

Well, this is why in Italy (at least in the past), they did not let younger drivers drive any vehicle that could go over 200. (That's basically a normal Fiat or something.)
The reason why it was enacted was all the teenage hotheads who would get into a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, etc. and - sometimes just on the first or second day driving - wrap it around a tree and die.
You can see the same here with these 19 year olds who are driving $150k+ supercars (usually foreign students or something), who get into these stupid street races and either get it impounded or get it destroyed in a crash. (And then mommy and daddy just buy them another.)

It takes a lot of awareness & experience to handle a vehicle that can jump like a scalded cat if you tap the accelerator just a little bit too much. How easy it is to over-torque a sports car (or pickup truck), get into an unstable skid, and then crash.
It happens a lot, and it's made worse by the tendency of some to drive intoxicated, or show off for some TikTok bullshit.

The pickup truck is is a slightly different one - a lot of these guys are just trying to drive careless because there is this whole subculture of doing that. The whole point is to demonstrate how you don't give a fuck about anyone but you, how to make others worry about you hurting them. These guys might not be much of a street racing / speed problem, but cause crashes? All the time.

 

[rlock]

But you can’t fix stupid without including stronger cognitive and reasoning testing for the privilege of getting a license.

Education doesn’t work on assholes. Better training is not the answer.
The answer is permanent loss of licences and forfeiture of vehicle. No “conditional” licenses for work, everyone abuses those.
A lot of people drive without a license. The only way to stop them is taking their car.

Better training would be great, but people whine too much about inconvenience, and industry whines too much about having to have qualified truck drivers and so on.
You think people properly trained are going to crash a dump truck or oversized hauler into an overpass? These companies have been known to hide their drivers from the police after such accidents.
Should be an obvious move to take drivers off the road who do shit like that, and any company that stands in the way of inspections or police investigations should be put out of business. (Companies do not have rights; only people do.)

 

[rlock]

Most cars sold today can do that. But in general, cars today already have limiters built in with various limits set depending on the car. In is primarily for safety of the vehicle to prevent it from operating beyond what it was designed for but others have limiters (governors) that have higher limits. These can be and are disabled often with a simple ECU tune.

Building in a governor? Fuck that. As soon as someone does that there will be a 100 guys working on a hack.

The technology to limit a car's speed exists, but as you say, as soon as it's mandatory, people will work on defeats for it. Most "governor" settings in street cars are so the engine does not blow up on you, not because of speed laws.
I think actual speed limiting measures for all cars (the kind that do not allow you to exceed a local speed limit), would be more possible with higher tech cars, but as you say, people would find a way to override that if it was mandatory. People already found ways to alter the engine operation to defeat clean-emission settings, with just a device plug in. (See the VW scandal.)

However, I think the only way it could really be done is with some sort of network centric upgrade where the car can read a local speed limit and AI decides not to exceed it. That is decades away. The authorities cannot even make a fool-proof "varbale speed limit" system on the Coquihalla and so on, let alone something like that. And the cars themselves have still shown that "auto-pilot" features are more of a safety hazard than a safety measure. Right now in the real world, I think it would just be better to dispense with that kind of nonsense.

Ads for variable speed limits, I do not think the system on the Coquihalla is all that useful. Keeping in mind the month of the year and the likely conditions, they could simply alter it up in May or down in October), and lower in general for trucks / buses / trailers than for cars since they are just not as safe at high speeds (due to top-heaviness and more momentum in general). It's a more low-tech way of dealing with it, but treating every vehicle the same and every time of year as potentially the same just seems foolish.

Several states took away speed limits years back. ... Remember the 120kph limits the Island, Coquihalla etc a few years back. That was I guess 'just a suggestion'. I think that may have been the catalyst to prompt ICBC to put in no fault.

The trend to set highway speed limits at 55 mph / 90 kmh was due to the energy crisis in the 1970's, so it was set at a level that balanced speed with fuel savings (and safety, sure). That stuck for a while, but then the oil prices dropped so by the late 80's/ 1990's, governments were ditching those for almost-autobahn like speed limits. They perhaps overdid that, but cars today are also not what they were back in the dday - today with ABS and airbags, and improvements to efficiency, it perhaps does not need to be too low. However, for commercial operators, they still have to consider fuel and hazard not just time savings.

As for ICBC, they went to no-fault accidents because that was a way to defeat the proliferation of (scammy) personal injury lawsuits. It had nothing to do with actual road safety, because lawsuits were increasing even as road safety was improving.

However, the effect of "no fault" might be that drivers now think they can drive like shit without any penalty because the system does not put them at fault in crashes they cause anymore.

To me, that just seems like a good argument for hitting stupid drivers with extra penalties if they cause a crash - as something punitive, not insurance related.

 

[jgg]

The type rating on tires that come from the manufacturer on a vehicle also determines the governor speed setting.

 

[westwoody]

qualified truck drivers

Yeah truckers, ugh….
A fucktard driving a cement pump truck drove under Winnipeg’s Disraeli Freeway. Repairs cost tens of millions and thousands of commuters were detoured for months.The guy was qualified.
I work near our airport and we see most long haul truckers blindly following their GPS through the nearby residential areas. I saw a semi with a huge transformer hit the overheads at a schoolyard. Wedged it right into the tops of the transformer and dragged it.. On at street clearly signed “No Trucks”. Thank god no kids got hurt.
Truck licenses are a fucking joke.